Your Pad Comments

[britmaveric]

Appointment of representatives because people in the rural areas are not well educated enough to choose leaders did the trick for me. How can this be deemed as democratic?

Arrogant and snobbery at its best.

[JohnBanPrang]

Does anyone know the rough amount that this protest has cost the economy?

and please, for the sake of fairness: does anyone know, how much damage the tax-sin und samak clique have already done to thailands reputation and how much their corrupt regime has and still does cost thailand everyday? a wild guess: at least 1000 times as much (likely more!) than these protesters, each and everyday. corruption doesn't come free, it fills the pockets of few rogues with money stolen from the diligent and depriving the millions of poor and underprivileged......the eventual cost of any protest is more than justified as a rather effective way to fight corrupt regimes and is a wise investment into thailands future.

How can you justify paying for protesters?

Money comes from people we can not even speak about.

What is not good for Thailand in any democratic world is:

Thailand has a demoratic lead parliament.The majority won and the minority lost.

If you think PDA didn't do wote bying you are naive.

[think_too_mut]

As The Economist said:

Thailand is becoming a tragicomic country that the world overlooks.

Like the Philipines.

[JohnBanPrang]

As The Economist said:

Thailand is becoming a tragicomic country that the world overlooks.

Like the Philipines.

Thailand will go back to it's "agricutural roots". But will be the leader in that field in

South East Asia. Suplying food for "Big brother"(China) in will be the mayor source

of income for Thailand in 10-15 years.

[scyriacus]

PAD Should stand for "People Against Democracy" because they are trying to oust a government that was legitimised in a popular vote less than 1 year ago by the majority of Thai citizens.

it was illegal vote buying and corruption

Many countries have people who are unpopular with their governments, but if every country had people acting in this way when they are unhappy there would be total anarchy.

every dictator would give you his highest 'pour le merit' for this

Peaceful protesting in means which are lawful is entirely justified, holding the country to ransom with ultimatums that go against the popular majoirty is absolutely unjustified !!!!.

no more than 10 people allowed, apply in advance, if permitted pay the fees and protest from your home. that would be 'in means', lawful and totally useless. again: "pour le merit" for you, this time with sword and diamonds!

The time for the dissatisfied to decide on a change of government is at the next election, as is the case with every civilised (?) democracy in the world.

but only if they invest more money than the corrupt incumbent vote buyers

I feel every sympathy for the Thai businesses and people that this will affect in a negative way and also for the people who voted for this government who are now having the PAD try to take their right to vote away from them with illegal tactics.

your 'sympathy' sounds hollow, because you in fact support the 'status quo', which is corruption. denied by no one with good intentions, only by the profiteers.

your quotes left (blue) my arguments added appropriately (red)

[Jingthing]

As The Economist said:

Thailand is becoming a tragicomic country that the world overlooks.

Like the Philipines.

Thailand will go back to it's "agricutural roots". But will be the leader in that field in

South East Asia. Suplying food for "Big brother"(China) in will be the mayor source

of income for Thailand in 10-15 years.

Yes, that is my impression also. My fear for the Orientals here is that it will become so politically weak that it is becoming in danger of being eaten up by China, like Burma and Tibet. What do you think the place for us European descent foreigners would be if that happened?

[IMA_FARANG]

I had to say "I don't know", meaning I'm unsure about the motives of the PAD. For myself, as I have said before on this forum, I work outside Thailand and only can get back to Thailand for a few weeks a year. For me, to try and comment on Thai politics, would just show my ignorance due to not living day by day in Thailand. So, I'll refrain from making poltical comments, so as not to make an a## of myself.

I would like to say, as I've said before, the history of Thailand in the last 50 to 100 years has many periods like this. Thailand has managed to survive them all somehow. For those who only live in Thailand, no matter what your opinion is, you need to remember that whatever the outcome of the current political turmoil is, in the end it will be resolved by the Thai people not those of us who are, let's face it, only semi-permanent vistors in the country. Even if you live and work in Thailand, the truth is, you are not as Thai as those whose family have lived here 300 years or more in Thailand. I have family and property in Thailand, but I am always concious of the fact that I am only a visitor in Thailand. Many of the people on this forum need to think about that fact. Please do that before you start making comments on the forum.

Let those who have the interest in the results, the Thai people, be the one's to decide what the solution is.

[think_too_mut]

As The Economist said:

Thailand is becoming a tragicomic country that the world overlooks.

Like the Philipines.

Thailand will go back to it's "agricutural roots". But will be the leader in that field in

South East Asia. Suplying food for "Big brother"(China) in will be the mayor source

of income for Thailand in 10-15 years.

Tell the BKK elite behind the so called "PAD" to leave their soapies TV and gold neckles and go plant rice.

Any gang can do what PAD does. Motocycles gang can do that.

Even countries like North Korea call themselves "The Peoples Democratic"...piece of shit.

[JohnBanPrang]

As The Economist said:

Thailand is becoming a tragicomic country that the world overlooks.

Like the Philipines.

Thailand will go back to it's "agricutural roots". But will be the leader in that field in

South East Asia. Suplying food for "Big brother"(China) in will be the mayor source

of income for Thailand in 10-15 years.

Yes, that is my impression also. My fear for the Orientals here is that it will become so politically weak that it is becoming in danger of being eaten up by China, like Burma and Tibet. What do you think the place for us European descent foreigners would be if that happened?

Learn to speak chinese or "Orient"

JT I know you have answer.

Learn to give a good tip? Who knows.

[scyriacus]

Appointment of representatives because people in the rural areas are not well educated enough to choose leaders did the trick for me. How can this be deemed as democratic?

Arrogant and snobbery at its best.

maybe you wish the corrupt to keep their loot? investing at least additional 1000 per head and year in education would poor people help to understand and support real democracy. instead you seem to agree to the current unbearable situation, where they are kept in ignorance and be paid 500 once every 4 years for their voting rights. the difference of 3500 per head goes to the politicians which you admire and support from dusk till dawn. ahh, maybe just 3000, coz another 500 seems to go to some pr agents and their highly trained and willing mercenaries who are 'correcting' encyclopediae and trolling forums. really - arrogant and snobbery...............

[JohnBanPrang]

As The Economist said:

Thailand is becoming a tragicomic country that the world overlooks.

Like the Philipines.

Thailand will go back to it's "agricutural roots". But will be the leader in that field in

South East Asia. Suplying food for "Big brother"(China) in will be the mayor source

of income for Thailand in 10-15 years.

Tell the BKK elite behind the so called "PAD" to leave their soapies TV and gold neckles and go plant rice.

Any gang can do what PAD does. Motocycles gang can do that.

Even countries like North Korea call themselves "The Peoples Democratic"...piece of shit.

Thank's Sir Think-too-mut(you sound like a slot machine)

The elite likes PAD.

They will always have a hard time exepting what rural Thai want.

[scyriacus]

Does anyone know the rough amount that this protest has cost the economy?

and please, for the sake of fairness: does anyone know, how much damage the tax-sin und samak clique have already done to thailands reputation and how much their corrupt regime has and still does cost thailand everyday? a wild guess: at least 1000 times as much (likely more!) than these protesters, each and everyday. corruption doesn't come free, it fills the pockets of few rogues with money stolen from the diligent and depriving the millions of poor and underprivileged......the eventual cost of any protest is more than justified as a rather effective way to fight corrupt regimes and is a wise investment into thailands future.

How can you justify paying for protesters?

my arguments are above, because they seem to be the only available force to fight a corrupt regime. i admit i would prefer some less dubious characters to do that dirty but desperately needed job, but i can see no one else, not even you (what would you suggest to fight corruption? or just lay back and do nothing?)

Money comes from people we can not even speak about.

there's only one institution in thailand you cannot speak about on tv, so peak out! or.....?

What is not good for Thailand in any democratic world is:

Thailand has a demoratic lead parliament.The majority won and the minority lost.

sorry, no again! the most impudent coalition of votebuyers took the booty, the more modest opposition lost

If you think PDA didn't do wote bying you are naive.

i am not as naive as you are, coz i know (not just guess wildly as you do) that pad has never contested in any election, they are an extra-parliamentary opposition.

as usual, your quotes blue, my arguments red

Edited August 30, 2008 by scyriacus

[scyriacus]

I had to say "I don't know", meaning I'm unsure about the motives of the PAD. For myself, as I have said before on this forum, I work outside Thailand and only can get back to Thailand for a few weeks a year. For me, to try and comment on Thai politics, would just show my ignorance due to not living day by day in Thailand. So, I'll refrain from making poltical comments, so as not to make an a## of myself.

I would like to say, as I've said before, the history of Thailand in the last 50 to 100 years has many periods like this. Thailand has managed to survive them all somehow. For those who only live in Thailand, no matter what your opinion is, you need to remember that whatever the outcome of the current political turmoil is, in the end it will be resolved by the Thai people not those of us who are, let's face it, only semi-permanent vistors in the country. Even if you live and work in Thailand, the truth is, you are not as Thai as those whose family have lived here 300 years or more in Thailand. I have family and property in Thailand, but I am always concious of the fact that I am only a visitor in Thailand. Many of the people on this forum need to think about that fact. Please do that before you start making comments on the forum.

Let those who have the interest in the results, the Thai people, be the one's to decide what the solution is.

i agree mostly, non thais have no say in thailand, no voting rights, no 'veto'. but everyone should have a well based (not just biased) opinion. and everyone should (at least be allowed to) express sympathy or detest. eg do you like or detest corruption? no muzzles needed, just arguments and fresh ideas..........

[scyriacus]

Tell the BKK elite behind the so called "PAD" to leave their soapies TV and gold neckles and go plant rice.

Any gang can do what PAD does. Motocycles gang can do that.

Even countries like North Korea call themselves "The Peoples Democratic"...piece of shit.

sorry mr. rant_too_mut. tell this please to your friend samak, and peace will prevail. how do you call yourself? a piece of what? and what are you doing to fight corruption and to help thailand? have you ever planted rice or do you only drink lao and watch soapies? it would be helpful for this forum, if you could be a little more constructive and use more moderate words, not just vulgar rabble.

[chalks]

I voted Yes to support PAD.

As previous posters have mentioned the current government is not legitimate. They bought their votes, as proven by court. The majority of Thais still voted against them by a narrow margin, but they won because of how the votes are aggregated into seats. They got the most seats in the north-east, widely regarded as the most poor and uneducated area of Thailand. Why the least educated area has the most seats, which means voting power, I do not know. Samak seems too busy trying to save himself and Thaksin to fight the country's real problems. And how many leaders of countries facing as many problems as him have time for a weekly cooking show?

As for the people assuming that PAD protesters are being paid, while in general that would be a valid assumption about Thai people, I have Thai friends currently protesting in PAD who say it is not true! They take their own food, sometimes get free drinks or underwear for the women (that made me laugh), but that is not the same as being paid just to be there. On the other hand, I assume that the pro-Thaksin supporters in Udon who attacked the PAD rally there (with conflicting reports of one death) were being paid, along with the taxi drivers and motorcycle gangs committing violent acts in the name of Thaksin 2 years ago.

The blocking of Phuket is unfortunate, but that doesn't affect my support for PAD. I am personally financially affected and have friends who's holidays are badly affected, including some good friends who were going to Phuket for their honeymoon. However that just makes us unlucky - it does not make people wrong for fighting against corruption!

[JohnBanPrang]

I voted Yes to support PAD.

As previous posters have mentioned the current government is not legitimate. They bought their votes, as proven by court. The majority of Thais still voted against them by a narrow margin, but they won because of how the votes are aggregated into seats. They got the most seats in the north-east, widely regarded as the most poor and uneducated area of Thailand. Why the least educated area has the most seats, which means voting power, I do not know. Samak seems too busy trying to save himself and Thaksin to fight the country's real problems. And how many leaders of countries facing as many problems as him have time for a weekly cooking show?

As for the people assuming that PAD protesters are being paid, while in general that would be a valid assumption about Thai people, I have Thai friends currently protesting in PAD who say it is not true! They take their own food, sometimes get free drinks or underwear for the women (that made me laugh), but that is not the same as being paid just to be there. On the other hand, I assume that the pro-Thaksin supporters in Udon who attacked the PAD rally there (with conflicting reports of one death) were being paid, along with the taxi drivers and motorcycle gangs committing violent acts in the name of Thaksin 2 years ago.

The blocking of Phuket is unfortunate, but that doesn't affect my support for PAD. I am personally financially affected and have friends who's holidays are badly affected, including some good friends who were going to Phuket for their honeymoon. However that just makes us unlucky - it does not make people wrong for fighting against corruption!

That's what they all say. Nobody took 1 baht.

You think this time is different.

Everybody in Thailand have their political gender.

You live in some good area.Good for you.

If you think PDA are figthing against corruption,good for you.

I don't personaly belive in this.

But let the Thai flag unite us all.

[old wanderer]

I voted YES for PAD..

How soon we all forget that until the PPP came to power Thaskin and his family stayed clear of Thailand.

When his wife relitive attorney was caught trying to bribe the Supreme Court and promptly put in jail, the tide began to change, when Pochiman was convicted and given 3 years in prison, a new day was born in Thai politics. When Thaskin and his wife were due to appear before the Supreme Court (being unable to delay any more), then ran for England, because conviction was a certainty, and there would have been no delay for the usual "appeal".

Meanwhile the PPP was working to get the laws off the books so their mentor could be free to continue business as usual.

Way too many of you have that hippy attitude that all people are equal....and loudly condemn the PAD as "elitist" I strongly support them (the PAD) as as my wife carries the scars of the protest back in the 80's when many of the students were shot for protesting the government, it is all I can do to keep her here at home as her spirit really wants to join her countrymen in Bangkok.

She hates the corruption in Thailand. As the most successful person in her little village in Issan, finally some of the people are starting to listen to what the results of giving a vote for 200 baht means. She remains glued to her TV set and ASTV....

We have also contributed financially to the PAD

[JohnBanPrang]

I voted YES for PAD..

How soon we all forget that until the PPP came to power Thaskin and his family stayed clear of Thailand.

When his wife relitive attorney was caught trying to bribe the Supreme Court and promptly put in jail, the tide began to change, when Pochiman was convicted and given 3 years in prison, a new day was born in Thai politics. When Thaskin and his wife were due to appear before the Supreme Court (being unable to delay any more), then ran for England, because conviction was a certainty, and there would have been no delay for the usual "appeal".

Meanwhile the PPP was working to get the laws off the books so their mentor could be free to continue business as usual.

Way too many of you have that hippy attitude that all people are equal....and loudly condemn the PAD as "elitist" I strongly support them (the PAD) as as my wife carries the scars of the protest back in the 80's when many of the students were shot for protesting the government, it is all I can do to keep her here at home as her spirit really wants to join her countrymen in Bangkok.

She hates the corruption in Thailand. As the most successful person in her little village in Issan, finally some of the people are starting to listen to what the results of giving a vote for 200 baht means. She remains glued to her TV set and ASTV....

We have also contributed financially to the PAD

Do you have any proof of your statment?(Who brides who?)

What 80's? is new day in Thai politics??

Are there new days comming. New flavor every month.

Democratisation is a long process.

Don't be biast.

PDA never did wote bying.

Can we all unite under the Thai flag.

[scyriacus]

That's what they all say. Nobody took 1 baht.

You think this time is different.

Everybody in Thailand have their political gender.

You live in some good area. Good for you.

If you think PDA are figthing against corruption, good for you.

I don't personaly belive in this.

But let the Thai flag unite us all.

nice post, but please in what do you believe?

who is fighting corruption in thailand? you??

let the fight against corruption unite us all under the thai flag.........

[JohnBanPrang]

That's what they all say. Nobody took 1 baht.

You think this time is different.

Everybody in Thailand have their political gender.

You live in some good area. Good for you.

If you think PDA are figthing against corruption, good for you.

I don't personaly belive in this.

But let the Thai flag unite us all.

nice post, but please in what do you believe?

who is fighting corruption in thailand? you??

let the fight against corruption unite us all under the thai flag.........

Thank you.

My post is for all of you

Why do we have to be devided.???

I belive in an United Thailand.

Same with the Thai flag.

Please tell me your history of Thailand.

But speek united.

I will bleed for Thailand.

[Tinkelbell]

I would march along with the PAD in a heartbeat too.

Unfortunately I'm in the States at the moment.

To do my part I instructed my nephew to donate $500 to help the caurse. This started when I first heard the news about these PAD protesting Thaksin gov't in the beginning of 2006. These PAD Thais had to camp out at Sanarm Luang. I've been giving them financial support eversince. Not much ...a $500 here, a $700 there just to show my support.

[bdenner]

Appointment of representatives because people in the rural areas are not well educated enough to choose leaders did the trick for me. How can this be deemed as democratic?

What rot and how dare you! You’re saying that because of their life style and demeanour my ‘uneducated’ wife (who happens to have exceptional English and computer skills and is a Puya Baan) and her families votes are worthless!

You want to see the whole Northern half of Thailand to go back to the poverty of 20 years with kids working the fields rather than in the schools that TRT and their predecessors built.

The ‘uneducated’ people up here have very long memories and do not want to be forgotten again.

[wxpwzrd]

Appointment of representatives because people in the rural areas are not well educated enough to choose leaders did the trick for me. How can this be deemed as democratic?

What rot and how dare you! You're saying that because of their life style and demeanour my 'uneducated' wife (who happens to have exceptional English and computer skills and is a Puya Baan) and her families votes are worthless!

You want to see the whole Northern half of Thailand to go back to the poverty of 20 years with kids working the fields rather than in the schools that TRT and their predecessors built.

The 'uneducated' people up here have very long memories and do not want to be forgotten again.

Wow talk about looking for an argument... toybits was obviously too generic in his comment and you over compensate by being too specific in yours. I don't recall seeing toybits saying that bdenner's family is uneducated.

What I read is that (in general) the rural population has been bought and paid for with their votes rather than properly using their right to vote for improving the country.

[simon43]

Anyone who thinks that a victory for PAD will benefit this country is living in cloud-cuckoo land. It will simply replace one corrupt government/leader with another corrupt government/leader. That has been the way ever since the absolute monarchy ended 80 years ago and that will continue to be the way that this country operates until the end of time.

Nevertheless, I do enjoy living here, despite all the problems

Simon

[bdenner]

............................

What I read is that (in general) the rural population has been bought and paid for with their votes rather than properly using their right to vote for improving the country.

Yes while money does change hands - 100 Baht from him, then 75 Baht from the other candidate, and lets say 50 Baht from an independant the voters are not followed into the voting booths and still vote for their favourite. In our case most vote for the party who implemented the SML (See note) and other projects that helped improve their life style.

SML - Small Medium Large - and the system is known and referred to by its English acronym. This is where the village is sized by population and receives a bye annual grant from the Govt for community works. In our case with a population of 900 we get the Medium of 250000 Baht the maximum is 300K. TW has the ATM card for this account and her books are fully audited at the Amphur office. A committee of elders decide what works are to be carried out. I wont go into detail now but it is not a perfect system and some villages do exploit it.

[Ulysses G.]

Anyone who thinks that a victory for PAD will benefit this country is living in cloud-cuckoo land. It will simply replace one corrupt government/leader with another corrupt government/leader. That has been the way ever since the absolute monarchy ended 80 years ago and that will continue to be the way that this country operates until the end of time.

Nevertheless, I do enjoy living here, despite all the problems

Simon

Ain't it the truth!

[Pierrot]

I voted Yes to support PAD.

As previous posters have mentioned the current government is not legitimate. They bought their votes, as proven by court.

When it has been proven, people have been disqualified, therefore the government IS legitimate !

And as previous posters have mentionned, repeating ad nauseum a false statement doesn't make it true !

[unomi]

I voted Yes to support PAD.

As previous posters have mentioned the current government is not legitimate. They bought their votes, as proven by court.

When it has been proven, people have been disqualified, therefore the government IS legitimate !

And as previous posters have mentionned, repeating ad nauseum a false statement doesn't make it true !

Pierrot, I am not sure what you are contesting? That vote buying happened? or that the act of votebuying causes the election to be illegitimate?

By the letter of the constitution, any party who has executives involved in vote buying should be dissolved. This is covered in act 237, the very act the PPP is trying to amend. Take a wild guess at why. 

The PPP Parliament president was convicted of vote buying. 

[Pierrot]

I voted Yes to support PAD.

As previous posters have mentioned the current government is not legitimate. They bought their votes, as proven by court.

When it has been proven, people have been disqualified, therefore the government IS legitimate !

And as previous posters have mentionned, repeating ad nauseum a false statement doesn't make it true !

Pierrot, I am not sure what you are contesting? That vote buying happened? or that the act of votebuying causes the election to be illegitimate?

By the letter of the constitution, any party who has executives involved in vote buying should be dissolved. This is covered in act 237, the very act the PPP is trying to amend. Take a wild guess at why.

The PPP Parliament president was convicted of vote buying.

As I said in an other post, I've a bit of headache this morning and I'm not really ready for an in-depth conversation.

To make things simple, the party in power is the people choice. The election have been held many times in the recent years and they've always returned the same people. Like it or not, as far as democracy is concerned, this government is legitimate.

The constitution has been written to maintain a weak government. The fact that the prime minister has limited power in this time of crisis is a prove of that. I will let more knowledgeable people develop the subject, but we had the same problem in France, governments unable to do anything, before we moved from the 4^th to the 5^th republic. Therefore the constitution need to be changed in order to able the government to effectively govern.

There is many other issues that need to be discussed but this morning, that's the best I can do.

[dangbry]

The french have had this happen numerous times without anyone questioning the vibrancy of their democracy or claiming that they are uncivilised.

The French have gone on strike many times, usually to try and get pay rises or prevent the CAP from having its subsidies cut but NEVER in recent history to try and overthrow the government. Due to the French government being weak at times they have succeded and this has only fueled further actions at later dates. All of this has damaged the reputation of both government and the minority of French people who hold their country hostage to their demands (exactly as PAD are doing to Thailand)

Also, the PPP did NOT receive the majority vote

They received more votes from more free voting people than any other party, I would say that means that the 'majority' of people in Thailand supported them at the time of the election. I am sure that if you were to have a vote now amongst the population of Thailand as to do they support PAD or not the majority would vote with a resounding NO

At the end of the day what do you see happening if PAD succeed in the downfall of this government. The military junta was impotent in terms of its ability to stimulate the Thai economy, there have been so many military coup's since the 2nd World War and in the present economic climate Thailand needs stability and not a change of leadership every year.

Obviously this government has large elements of corruption and I agree there should be protests to put pressure for change, but not the type of protests being seen now which is affecting so many millions of innocent people in a hugely negative way.

What PAD should be campaigning for mostly is a fair and free media which would then be able to highlight those who are responsible for corruption, again all campaigning should be done in a public manner which does not impact on the lives of everyday people trying to make a living and live their lives.

So many people around the world are pissed at their governments, but they wait until election time to vote them out. As for the vote buying statement, isn't that what PAD are guilty of doing now with their payments to the demonstrators?