State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[Jai Dee]

Rally may end within two days: Sondhi

People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) leader Sondhi Limthongkul announced at the anti-government stage at Government House on Tuesday afternoon that no governments have issued a law to silence people who call for morality.

Mr Sondhi said to his supporters that they have been fighting for years. After the government declared the state of emergency on Tuesday morning, he expected that the rally would end within the next two days once the authority comes to disperse them. However, he believed the army will not hurt the people.

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[ando]

It may be that to have a free and fair election, Thailand might have to invite the international community to oversee the process. Is this a viable suggestion--to have a new election rigorously monitored by international observers? Or does it infringe on the Thai sensibility that they themselves can properly manage an election?

As virtually any Thai will tell you, -- they have their own way of doing things in Thailand and since they are smarter than everyone else their way is the best.

The culture of corruption and dirty dealing is firmly entrenched in Thai society from top to bottom. It is the accepted norm in Thai society and I believe most Thais couldn't imagine a life without corruption at all levels.

[Crushdepth]

So what's going to prevent the opposition or any other party of conducting vote buying in the next election?

DISSOLUTION!!!! When political parties get sick of being dissolved for electoral fraud they will stop trying to buy votes.

[eastwest]

Appeals Court rejects PAD's plea against arrest warrants

The Appeals Court Tuesday rejects an appeal by the nine leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy, seeking to annul their arrest warrants.

The court decided that the arrest warrants were properly issued in line with the Criminal Procedural Code's Artcle 68 so the court rejected the appeal.

Source: The Nation - 02 September 2008

This is big news because it allows Samak and the police to legally move against PAD and to arrest Sondhi and Chamlong and the seven other indictees. The key word here is "legally." If Anupong and the military decide to uphold the rule of law, PAD's days as viable opposition to the government are few.

[blaze]

It may be that to have a free and fair election, Thailand might have to invite the international community to oversee the process. Is this a viable suggestion--to have a new election rigorously monitored by international observers? Or does it infringe on the Thai sensibility that they themselves can properly manage an election?

The problem won't be in having a free and fair election- the problem will be in convincing the losing side to acknowledge that the election was free and fair. Because to make such an admission would be to accept the moral as well as legal right of the winning side to put together a government.

Edited September 2, 2008 by blaze

[Old Man River]

Sonthi is saying he expects the PAD rally will end in the next two days:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=130284

[jts-khorat]

Appeals Court rejects PAD's plea against arrest warrants

The Appeals Court Tuesday rejects an appeal by the nine leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy, seeking to annul their arrest warrants.

The court decided that the arrest warrants were properly issued in line with the Criminal Procedural Code's Artcle 68 so the court rejected the appeal.

Source: The Nation - 02 September 2008

Another pointless decision, since no one is going to arrest them because the feudals have told the army and police not to touch them.

Not pointless, because it shows that the courts still try to uphold the law; and as they themselves ask the courts to uphold the law with regard to the government (eg its dissolution) it shows their bigotry and double standards if they do not turn themselves in.

Smashing up airports and radio stations is definitely not peaceful protest; and the PAD are still ongoing in their mandate for violence.

[JetsetBkk]

I still believe absolute monarchy would be the best for Thailand.

It's worth considering. Demo-crazy isn't working.

[blaze]

I still believe absolute monarchy would be the best for Thailand.

Go to a PAD rally- you might be surprised how many would agree.

[jts-khorat]

Thailand got what it wanted. It's called Darwinism and may the weak and gullible be weeded out

Most democratic countries stand up for their weak and gullible.......but you are happy for them to be "weeded out".........geese like u should just <deleted>

Standing up for the weak and gullible; maybe true if this means sickness, mental disability, etc. Not casting your vote in exchange for THb 500 or demonstrating in exchange for money and food in the streets.

Maybe you need to clarify: do you really believe that most democratic countries stand up for corruption and law-breaking? Name me a few examples.

[Scubadude770]

The state of emergency also prohibits news publicity in a way that terrifies the public.

Doesn't that mean this order is in violation of itself? Obviously Samak has only concern for himself, and have no clue what a HUGE negative impact the declaration of a state of emergency means to the rest of the world, especially investors & tourists. Samak's short-sighted efforts to save his own neck will be at the expense of all of Thailand.

Samak obviously intended and wanted this to happen. He & the PPP paid for buses to bring their supporters in from the North so they could deliberately start a fight and cause violence.

The PAD have been demonstrating peacefully for weeks and continue to be peaceful.

100% of the trouble is due to Samak & the PPP who organized and deliberately intended their supporters to cause the recent violence that now gives them the excuse to attack the PAD.

Samak Ow Pai!

Dear Chua,

Respectfully, You need more information before arising to the aforementioned conclusion. PAD has been hiring and transporting people to the protests since the beginning of this. The rate started at 500 baht per day and is now up to 1000 per day. Entire villages are open to negotiation for their appearance at the PAD sponsored events. Most of the people hired are coming from the, you guessed it, northeastern provinces. They appear for the money only.

PAD peaceful ?? effectively shutting down a government installation is not peaceful....It could be an act of war if two nationalities were involved and certainly never tolerated in any democratically elected western democracy.

Protesting against a democratically elected government is the HUGE negative impact perceived by the rest of the world, investors .... and the tourists will not come as long as PAD continues it's desire to disrupt a democratically elected government.

You should attain more of the facts and perhaps a political science course or two in order to educate yourself and realign your position,

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand got what it wanted. It's called Darwinism and may the weak and gullible be weeded out

Most democratic countries stand up for their weak and gullible.......but you are happy for them to be "weeded out".........geese like u should just <deleted>

Standing up for the weak and gullible; maybe true if this means sickness, mental disability, etc. Not casting your vote in exchange for THb 500 or demonstrating in exchange for money and food in the streets.

Maybe you need to clarify: do you really believe that most democratic countries stand up for corruption and law-breaking? Name me a few examples.

Ok, thinking outside the box, every voter receives 500 baht from the officials at the polling booths.

[animatic]

I haven't read though the entire thread, but didn't the people of Thailand elect the PPP as their government with a majority and more than any other party? If so, why is a minority protesting? Let's face the truth here for a second, the majority of Thais have voted for the PPP. Why is their choice not being respected? And occupying government buildings and TV stations and threatening to cut off electricity and water supplies is hardly democracy, but anarchy.

because there was massive vote buying, so even the EC decided today to disband the PPP.

Means it was not democratic elected.

The EC has not disbanded the PPP. They have recomended the matter go to the courts for a judgement.

Not saying its not going to happen though.

yes you are right....if they crack down on the PAD and changing the constitution it won't happen.

And they told already if they disband PPP they have already the next party to continue so a lose/lose scenario for Thailand.

Yes BUT, it will have culled another 100 or so heads off the hydra of the old TRT.

200+ down, how many more to go? Eventually ALL parties will realise that vote buying

will not make them more money than playing with a reasonably level field for all.

Perfectly level and fair is utopian fantasy. A reasonable parity is best sought for

and defended vigorously.

Edited September 2, 2008 by animatic

[eastwest]

It may be that to have a free and fair election, Thailand might have to invite the international community to oversee the process. Is this a viable suggestion--to have a new election rigorously monitored by international observers? Or does it infringe on the Thai sensibility that they themselves can properly manage an election?

As virtually any Thai will tell you, -- they have their own way of doing things in Thailand and since they are smarter than everyone else their way is the best.

The culture of corruption and dirty dealing is firmly entrenched in Thai society from top to bottom. It is the accepted norm in Thai society and I believe most Thais couldn't imagine a life without corruption at all levels.

As everybody is looking for a way out of this mess, bringing in the international community to oversee a new election may allow all parties involved to save face. Thailand is Thailand, but people and countries do change. The pernicious culture of corruption can be mitigated. Fair elections can indeed take place. It just may be Thailand needs a little help in getting this first but meaningful step accomplished.

[soundman]

So what's going to prevent the opposition or any other party of conducting vote buying in the next election?

DISSOLUTION!!!! When political parties get sick of being dissolved for electoral fraud they will stop trying to buy votes.

and start just buying the politicians who have secure districts to secure election victories..... these politicians generally don't care which party they are in as long as they are receiving appropriate remuneration for their services...

Stricter punishments are in order.

Vote buying - 1 year gaol, 5,000,000 baht fine & ten year ban from politics for you and five year ban for all family members.

Changing political parties - 6 months off the old party register and 6 months registered with the new party on or before the day of the election.

Illegal fund raising activities (War on (opposition) drug dealers for example) - Court date with the court of Political position holders. One stop - no appeal.

Being fit and proper person to lead the country - No cabinet members may hold their posts if they have prior criminal convictions or have on-going "criminal" allegations and court appearances. If they want to serve in the cabinet, they have to help the courts expedite the cases for a guilty or not guilty conclusion rather than tying the courts up for years in appeals and no shows hoping the charges will go away. Three month amnesty from the date of the election. Any new charges, the cabinet minister concerned has to immediately step down.

Wishful thinking!

[jts-khorat]

I still believe absolute monarchy would be the best for Thailand.

Go to a PAD rally- you might be surprised how many would agree.

What looks good now might not look so good in a few years time. The reason should be obvious.

[TAWP]

The proposition of having International observers where stopped last election from all directions.

Could you please clarify what you're saying here?

That the proposition that allow international observers was ridiculed and tossed out by all involved parties. "Thais don't need to be lectured on how to run elections" was the sentiment - from all.

Pride and nationalism goes above party-lines.

[animatic]

It may be that to have a free and fair election, Thailand might have to invite the international community to oversee the process. Is this a viable suggestion--to have a new election rigorously monitored by international observers? Or does it infringe on the Thai sensibility that they themselves can properly manage an election?

As virtually any Thai will tell you, -- they have their own way of doing things in Thailand and since they are smarter than everyone else their way is the best.

The culture of corruption and dirty dealing is firmly entrenched in Thai society from top to bottom. It is the accepted norm in Thai society and I believe most Thais couldn't imagine a life without corruption at all levels.

Yes may be so, but possibly it's worth trying to cut out corruption at the top

and maybe it will lessen down the chain. The longer and farther

Thailand gets away from it's feudal patronage roots the less the grip of

expected top to bottom patronage will be felt.

We are really only 2-3 generations from the earliest real attempts

to cut this expectation back to acceptable standards.

Edited September 2, 2008 by animatic

[rken]

PAD leaders have to feeling desparate at this point with the inpending charges being up held. Maybe thailand with get lucky and tha paD leaders will go to jail and PPP will get dissolved thereby killing two birds with on stone.

I'm not holding my breath. But.

[catmac]

There is too much heat and lack of comprehension of the true situation here.

Firstly, Thailand is NOT a democracy. The votes have never been free or fair here, if they were there would be no vote buying or heavy "persuasion" to vote for a particular party. As an example, at the last election, my maids and their entire community were told that if they did not vote for PPP, their loans from the 1MBaht village fund would be called in. This is neither free nor fair and does not fulfill the requirements to be a democracy. No government "elected in such circumstances can be regarded as legal or legitimate.

I have several family members deeply involved at all levels in PAD. They are not paid, and those demonstrating have never received more than a bottle of water or a khanom from well-wishers. The PAD have always preached Ghandiism and non violence. Any who arrived at a demonstration with any type of weapon had it removed, or they were turned away. The PAD have legitimate grievances, not least the illegitimate government, and have the absolute right to make them known.

On Saturday/Sunday that just passed, a group of men were touring the villages in the North and, I'm told the North East, offering 500-1,000 Baht per day to men willing to go to Bangkok to form a counter demonstration and attack the PAD demonstrators. All transport etc. was provided. Is it mere coincidence that this happened just when Mr Taxin sold Man' City and became highly solvent again. The rumour is that more than coincidence is involved here.

Now, now, p1p, your post is so riddled with one-sided bias that you've lost all credibility.

Speak of your own and your neighbourhood's experiences by all means, but to then say that nobody at the PAD demos was paid is to, firstly, call many of your fellow TVers liars, and, secondly, to award yourself super-human powers that enabled you to examine the circumstances of everyone of those 35,000 odd protesters.

And yet from a mere "I'm told" you accept as gospel that every non-PAD protester must be just a paid lacky, devoid of any principles or passion.

[Crushdepth]

Vote buying - 1 year gaol, 5,000,000 baht fine & ten year ban from politics for you and five year ban for all family members.

A better sentence would be a permanent ban from politics (and some jail time). People might be less inclined to cheat if they knew they were probably going to flush their entire political career down the toilet.

[ando]

It may be that to have a free and fair election, Thailand might have to invite the international community to oversee the process. Is this a viable suggestion--to have a new election rigorously monitored by international observers? Or does it infringe on the Thai sensibility that they themselves can properly manage an election?

As virtually any Thai will tell you, -- they have their own way of doing things in Thailand and since they are smarter than everyone else their way is the best.

The culture of corruption and dirty dealing is firmly entrenched in Thai society from top to bottom. It is the accepted norm in Thai society and I believe most Thais couldn't imagine a life without corruption at all levels.

Yes may be so, but possibly it's worth trying to cut out corruption at the top

and maybe it will lessen down the chain. The longer and farther

Thailand gets away from it's feudal patronage roots the less the grip of

expected top to bottom patronage will be felt.

We are really only 2-3 generations from the earliest real attempts

to cut this expectation back to acceptable standards.

Yes I agree with you there. And such is the reason why the country should not turn back from its path down the road to democracy now.

As several posters have said here previously, democracy may not be the perfect form of government, but it is the most accountable.

[aglae4]

This General on TV right now, do I understand correctly that he is saying the military will not break up the PAD demonstrations? Isn't that called mutiny?

What Gen. Anupong said is that they still need time to study the situation in order to do what is best for all sides. He did not say the military will not break up the demonstration.

I am still amazed - more than half an hour now and he is still as polite and calm as he was at the beginning - if he wasn't head of the military, people would likely be looking at him as a possible alternative.

(editing my own grammar LOL)

It was annnounced yesterday (Bangkok Post) that this general will be replaced the 1st of october......(that puzzled me : he refuses the state of emergency on Friday, it is announced on monday that he will be replaced, he accepts the state of emergency on tuesday, but will maybe not interfere.......). I say that and I say nothing.

Sorry for my poor english!

[hammered]

Gen. Anupong's press conference was interesting. Sides shoudl negotiate. No force to move PAD. Differences between Samak and PAD up to parliament to resolve. Possible censorship or something against NBT and ASTV. Quite mild and level headed.

[stevemac]

The state of emergency also prohibits news publicity in a way that terrifies the public.

Doesn't that mean this order is in violation of itself? Obviously Samak has only concern for himself, and have no clue what a HUGE negative impact the declaration of a state of emergency means to the rest of the world, especially investors & tourists. Samak's short-sighted efforts to save his own neck will be at the expense of all of Thailand.

Samak obviously intended and wanted this to happen. He & the PPP paid for buses to bring their supporters in from the North so they could deliberately start a fight and cause violence.

The PAD have been demonstrating peacefully for weeks and continue to be peaceful.

100% of the trouble is due to Samak & the PPP who organized and deliberately intended their supporters to cause the recent violence that now gives them the excuse to attack the PAD.

Samak Ow Pai!

Since when has entering and smashing up airport terminals been classed as peaceful? Also, I thought this was a democratically elected government. What mandate does PAD have to overthrow the government? What right do they have to disrupt the free passage of law abiding citizens?

[toptuan]

I'll take a bad government over anarchy any day.

[ThNiner]

Since when has entering and smashing up airport terminals been classed as peaceful? Also, I thought this was a democratically elected government. What mandate does PAD have to overthrow the government? What right do they have to disrupt the free passage of law abiding citizens?

Since when breaking two windows at ONE airport terminal is the same as "smashing up airport terminals"? Besides the PAD itself has been vehemently denying that it was their people who did it. You must be working for NBT, ehh?

[Mosha]

I'd stop anyone selling their vote from voting for 5 years.

[hammered]

Latest seems to be Banharn offers to mediate between government (of whihc his party is part!) and PAD and Media organizations decry the SoE. Both are entirely predictable.

Edited to add: and apparently Samak wont resign or disolve the house so we now have the same stand off as yesterday but this time with the army in the middle. Only in Thailand

Edited September 2, 2008 by hammered

[ThNiner]

I'll take a bad government over anarchy any day.

You think if Samak steps down, it will be anarchy and no central gov't will be formed? For real?