State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[jitagon]

If the result of the referendum is 'no, we don't want the government to continue in office', do you think they'll tell us?

[Los78]

Ghandi in action....

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/O...80902104646.jpg

It's interesting isn't it that the first person to die in these tensions was not a PAD supporter. Hmmm and I dont see in any of the pictures from the incident on Tuesday PAD using self defence techniques more like clubbing the opposition to death.

[ubonjoe]

If the concept of the referendum originated from Samak's saturday meeting in Klai Kangwon Palace. (Something must have been discussed - and its unlikely that an idea like this would be allowed to proceed without top level consent).

You'd all be falling over yourselves to say what a fantastic idea it is.

I also think a referendum is a good idea.

I even brouht it up in a post and got about the same response as seen today,

I agree that if it came from the source you mentioned you would of seen a different resposnse.

Edited September 4, 2008 by ubonjoe

[animatic]

Ghandi in action....

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/O...80902104646.jpg

Not to defend this violence,

but what I see here is a man on the ground with a black weapon by his hand,

who has just lost a fight because he foolishly came at superior forces.

I see two people overdoing subduing him in the heat of the moment,

and another person seemingly anticipating an attack by others out of frame.

Since we KNOW some of these had machettes and other deadly weapons,

and we know PAD had no idea how many they would deal with withinin minutes,

Logic dictates incapacitating some enemy within your lines to prevent being attacked from behind.

Was this guy acting beserker? We don't know, extreme violence begats extreme violence.

it's easy to do the armchair accusations, using a fraction of a second photo from a melee.

But it doesn't necessarily reveal 'The Truth'. Only a window in time.

It is in battle, PPP sent it's goon squad into battle PAD, not sending in the police.

like a rationally thinking elected body would have sent, during normal hours.

This man's blood is as much on PPP/DAAD instigator's hands as these PAD people.

More so probably, because PAD was defending their existing space, legal or not,

and the others came looking for a fight with them which CLEARLY was illegal.

And there is NO supporting evidence that this is the person who died.

But there is evidense that PPP MP's are so swayed by money and power,

that they will send in a mob in the dark of night to clear out dissenting voices .

Is this REALLY the kind of people who should run a country of peace loving people?

Edited September 4, 2008 by animatic

[sabaijai]

I can assure that i dont support any of these idiots ,i am from england so its not my business to support ,i don"t have a vote, all i can say is that phuket is very PAD supportive and its for sure PAD that are offering cash here.

You maybe didn't support anybody except yourself but title others as idiots show who you are.

On the other hand it would be interesting to know how many actions are take to discredit the PAD in any possible way! And to discredit the PAD is maybe the only way left for the government site and their supporters to extend the "live" some more day's?!

All actions right know looking just that the end isn't very far!

Cheers.

I beg your parden are you calling me an idiot for not siding with PAD why should I ! I am just reporting a fact. Its obvious that PAD PPP and DAAD are very well funded and lets face it money is invested usually for a return so who's expecting it.

Yes I think they are all idiots for the damage this has and will cause the econnomy, mad as hamsters the lot of them, and sorting it out will be like hearding cats unless some order can be brought to bear very soon.

Yes you are quite right they are probably all being paid. I too know of specific cases and I'm not going to say which side/ or both sides, as someone is going to hop on and accuse me of being a traitor. But fair enough to say that both sides are paying.

It is quite strange that in all the clamour for power and control of the country, no one stops to assess whether there will be a country left at the end of all this.

There will be a country left, cmsally. Cycles of coup/countercoup/constitution/election/protest/resignation/coup have been on steady rotation since 1947. If it were an international sport, the Thais would be Olympic champs.

What we've seen so far is child's play compared to the 1940s and 50s when sometimes three or more factions fought against each other, not to mention '76 ir '92. In terms of violence Thaksin's drug wars and his handing of southern Thailand command from military to police have resulted in far worse violence.

One can only hope this particular cycle resolves before there's any more death or injury. Samak will have to step down for that resolution to begin.

Either way, I see no reason to worry that Thailand won't survive as it always has through crises like these.

[Koo82]

So proud of Khun Samak this morning. He said clearly he will not resign. Very tough man. That's the right thing to do. Thailand is in a mess now. He must be here to help clear all problems. Thanks Khun Samak.

[permanent_disorder]

but samak is more the "Ghandi" here - he does nothing.

Your entire lenghty post collapsed on itself with this jewel.

Perhaps he was actually referring to Indira Gandi and the three year State of Emergency that she imposed on all of India.

Even if it was a comparison with Indira.

It`s Samak Sudaravej`we`re talking about here, the same Samak who when cornered starts threatening Al Jazeera and CNN journalists.

Not an iota of Ghandi in there.

Just an imposing proxy coward posing as PM.

you see the ""? beside a quote in the syntax of my native language, i can highlight that i don't actually mean it and also in a "funny" way. maybe not works in english.

anyway it's of course a ridiculous black and white picture, but the PAD got compared with ghandi and called so peaceful. do you believe that or make at least fun of them.

also i am not here to defend samak. after the election i saw the Al Jazeera interview and could not believe.

but 2nd thought: he is from a different society, a different generation and of course know nothing about the 'western' protocol, so he fail. but maybe work out in this political system, at least for a while. and he got elected by the mayority. no wrong that is not the 2nd thought , it's the 3rd. 2nd is i don't care about politics.

but i don't trust sondhi, there i see and hear action that worries me. i wrote another post about. and a samak get out slogan is not enough to team up with the PAD.

i didn't claim to speak the final truth, but i had to ad another drift. to much praise of the PAD.

i didn't see them as a peoples power freedom movement. they are somewhat very bizarre, not easy to understand, but if you look more closer to them and try a few different angles maybe one can understand what they are not.

the anti-samak optinion is easy, just look at him, see the Al Jazeera interview? omg. see him standing in the middle of the floor, a face like a lunatic, absentminded while sourrounded by cameras. he is pro thaksin and we have the deep knowledge about thai history and what happen '76. zero plus points, right.

PAD, love the king, it's a big family. music on the stage, grandma dancing, a happy fair, looks like a grass root movement, all generations, all social classes.

"samak ouk bai" - justified, see above. but do i understand what the speeches are about? should i care about this?

but i am still puzzled why board members here have the selective perception that the PAD is peaceful, just look how far they have gone- besiege the goverment building etc. possible in your home country?

i am also amazed how soft the police is against the protesters. or the total lack of any police action. can you imagine that in your home country, or some other country. just remember riot police in the democrazies. look after G8 police on youtube,what a combat gear, or check out the long bats of indian police, or most thoroughgoing police i have ever seen, south korea. look at their combat style using the shields.

have seen anything close to that in bangkok, no.

i think that why people have the misconception of a peaceful movement. how could have been so easy for them to take over the goverment building?

me opinion is de-escalation tactic. let them do, they only discredit themself. any police action would lead to bigger violence and everyone can finger point at samak the same old bloodhound of '76. but makes him looks weak, (his buddies lost the patience?). but maybe he plays the wise old man for the history book. solved a crisis without violence. samak shines in a new light.

i doubt that the clash have been staged, set up and orderd by the PPP headquarters. just the normal street fights you have with politooligans. or between differrent schools, moto cycle gangs.

and we can forget that team peace have a higher combat ethic or show some real greatness with self defense only, it's the same mob just different shirt colour.

strange is only the riot training of them para militaric riot training in the middle of the city. SA marched? the train for the fight with who?

have we now a stagnation?

if it is not de-escalation tactic, than is samak just weak without support from a background?

or have the PAD just more influence in the background? is it a real power force or just the money and economical heckle option with the promised bank run to ruin the market.

what comes next? will it be the end of samak? did the PAD go home after the 'last war' or will they claim winner rights?

samak play on time? of course, standing there, do nothing and let the cockroaches run amok.

a goverment should not take order from lunatics without mandate from nobody. it his job as statesman now, otherwise you have a PIPI, FIKI, ZUIKI team every half year.

if you want a democratic thailand, you have to live with what the people vote for, dosn't matter if you know it better.

btw. how much of you are just happy and satisfied with "Samak ouk bai. ouk bai"?

[sabaijai]

Actually, Tej resignation deserves some careful consideration - is it really a sign that "upstairs" have made their decision?

If that is the case - one could say "premocracy" prevails, but, on the other hand, it's a sign that "democratic parlament" has completely failed again.

This "democratic" process was given its chance on Sunday, and it produced nothing, just a bunch of monkeys throwing bananas at each other.

If the house is dissolved and there's new elections - will PPP come back again? Everybody thinks it will, but WHY? Is it because they are so good at governing the country? Or is it because their political machinery has a complete lock up on electoral system in key regions?

There's a very difficult choice to be made, but the upside can be really really good - let PPP run without Thaksin in the background, see how they do on their own. If they fail to win, "democracy" prevails, we can go on cheering for this stupid system without any need to rethink how it should be run in this particular country.

I, personally, prefer an interim government commited to a comprehensive political reform before elections are held.

There are plenty of suggestions, from "new politics" to banning people who sold their votes to setting a minimum education standard to vote to "no taxes, no say".

There is definitely a need, the current system does not address the real probelms, everybody would agree with that, to some degree.

How about separating local and national politics altogether? Local MPs have no influence over the government policies anyway.

How about redrawing consitituenices not on geographical base but on professional/social status, as per "new politics" proposal?

At this point I admit I have to agree with Sondhi's personal four point proposal - Samak has to go, and let things run their course while the political reform is implemented.

Agreed. Thailand has only had a fully elected parliament for the last decade or so. What Thailand needs is one good constitution that will stand the test of time. Something along the lines of Sondhi's 'new politics' is probably the most workable system for Thailand. Most of Thailand's earlier constitutions were similar in structure.

Thai history since 1946 suggests that parliaments instaled by popular vote are closely followed by protest and/or coup, then a new constitution, then popular vote/protest/coup, ad infinitum. If you come from a country where the system of popular vote works (or at least you think it works), you may be repelled at the way it goes in Thailand.

One finds it easy to blame 'PAD hooligans' but in fact what you're seeing in action has been more or less 'normal' Thai politics for decades. Sondhi has made a careful study of Thai history and knows exactly how to move the cycle along.

No one wants violence and unrest. But there's no universal panacea. Let the Thais come up with a Thai solution to Thai problems.

[catmac]

Just got this....

One minute in silence by PAD for slain DAAD member

Chamlong Srimuang, a leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, told PAD protesters to stand in silence for one minute to show respect to a government supported killed during a clash early Tuesday morning.

Chamlong told the crowd at the Government House at 9:40 pm that the PAD was sorry over the death of Narongchai Korbthaisong.

Narongchai was fatally beaten by security officers of the PAD during the clash.

Pipop Thongchai, another PAD leader, told the crowd that the people were victims of bad politicians no matter which side they belong to.

"We didn't intend to have anyone killed but the government sent men to attack us," Pipop said.

The Nation

So it looks like it was true that it was a DAAD member that was killed, and killed by PAD guards.

My wife is starting to second guess her allegiance to the PAD and so am I...my wife told me, that Sondhi told his supporters to phone the ASTV phone number and press "R" and that would make them an automatic member of ASTV and they would be deducted 200 Baht per month from their mobile phone account. Sounds like Sondhi might just be another greedy slimebag after all.

So I guess I would have to say, you guys where right and I was wrong.

I do however still support the PAD to bring down the corrupt government and Samak, because they seem to be the only ones willing to do it right now. Samak and his PPP Alliance is corrupt and needs to go. Letting them stay and change the constitution is not a good option for Thailand. Corruption must be confronted and stopped, when it is obious.

After the government falls, they can put Sondhi in jail, if they want, I don't care anymore. He is just sounding like another greedy crook now.

Kurt, nobody is perfect (least of all me, don't take my criticism of you too personally .... I think many of us are really getting worked up by the bloody farce we are seeing on the streets of Bangkok, so I'm sorry if you took offense)

All along the oponents of PAD and Sondhi have made it crystal clear that they are not excusing Samak, Thaksin and TRT/PPP for the criminal things they did, but we were much more scared of Sondhi's perverted vendetta, his loathsome corrupt past, his neo-fascist views on voting (or rather on not-voting if you're poor and your skin is the wrong colour!), etc., etc. And then the bloody murderer of those Muslims, General Panlop was seen sliding into the PAD leadership!!!!! Too much for any right-thinking man.

[Los78]

Kurt, nobody is perfect (least of all me, don't take my criticism of you too personally .... I think many of us are really getting worked up by the bloody farce we are seeing on the streets of Bangkok, so I'm sorry if you took offense)

All along the oponents of PAD and Sondhi have made it crystal clear that they are not excusing Samak, Thaksin and TRT/PPP for the criminal things they did, but we were much more scared of Sondhi's perverted vendetta, his loathsome corrupt past, his neo-fascist views on voting (or rather on not-voting if you're poor and your skin is the wrong colour!), etc., etc. And then the bloody murderer of those Muslims, General Panlop was seen sliding into the PAD leadership!!!!! Too much for any right-thinking man.

It's interesting how the PAD supporters on this forum know so little about the PAD leaders.... I recommend they all give their names a google and have a read on wikipedia and others. You may be surprised what hypercrites they all are....

Edited September 4, 2008 by Los78

[animatic]

So proud of Khun Samak this morning. He said clearly he will not resign. Very tough man. That's the right thing to do. Thailand is in a mess now. He must be here to help clear all problems. Thanks Khun Samak.

No newbie bias here,

No rational arguments for or agains

No critical analysis

Most all analysts have stated he is now as much of the problem as PAD or Thaksin.

He could end all the hassle and do it within constitutional methods.

but he prefferes keeping his job and not losing face, as he sees it,

over the good of the people.

Half of which he doesn't think he must represent,

because they disagree with him.

Remember his mandate of 37% is MUCH less than 50%.

63% of the populace didn't give him ANY mandate.

Why should he serve them also?

Edited September 4, 2008 by animatic

[Plus]

Nowhere in "new politics" they talk about non-voting. On the contrary, in addition to simple voting, people will get a chance to actually BE in parlament, not watch in on TV once a year.

In BP's interview Sondhi said that if they get 20% of parlament filled by real people, not politicians, it would be a victory for PAD.

[cmsally]

Nowhere in "new politics" they talk about non-voting. On the contrary, in addition to simple voting, people will get a chance to actually BE in parlament, not watch in on TV once a year.

In BP's interview Sondhi said that if they get 20% of parlament filled by real people, not politicians, it would be a victory for PAD.

He also said he wasn't clear how this would be achieved.

[catmac]

Excellent post permanent-disorder (like Ubonjoe, I wont quote and waste another page - pity Tony Clifton doesn't stop endlessly showing his few pictures off!)

Interesting to show PAD using children as combatents - I thought that was forbiden by International Law, and is actually a war crime? Such wonderful, clean and peaceful people aren't they? What a slur to liken them to Gandhi, a genuine pacifist and lover of his fellow men.

[Thai at Heart]

Kurt, nobody is perfect (least of all me, don't take my criticism of you too personally .... I think many of us are really getting worked up by the bloody farce we are seeing on the streets of Bangkok, so I'm sorry if you took offense)

All along the oponents of PAD and Sondhi have made it crystal clear that they are not excusing Samak, Thaksin and TRT/PPP for the criminal things they did, but we were much more scared of Sondhi's perverted vendetta, his loathsome corrupt past, his neo-fascist views on voting (or rather on not-voting if you're poor and your skin is the wrong colour!), etc., etc. And then the bloody murderer of those Muslims, General Panlop was seen sliding into the PAD leadership!!!!! Too much for any right-thinking man.

It's interesting how the PAD supporters on this forum know so little about the PAD leaders.... I recommend they all give their names a google and have a read on wikipedia and others. You may be surprised what hypercrites they all are....

I think that would be true for most of the country, not just readers on TV.

I can't say I have spoken to many, but the half a dozen PAD supporters I have politely asked about Sondhi particularly have virtually no knowledge of his spoken agendas or his history of business dealings with Thaksin and the banks. They believe he is protecting the country and the monarchy.

Sophisticated bunch these educated classes.

[paulfromphuket]

^The USSR used to tie German kids and women to their tanks while they were invading Germany in the final weeks of WW2, so that the Wehrmacht would think twice about firing on them

the germans just put them in the gas chambers me thinks neither of these relate to this situation

[blaze]

Actually, Tej resignation deserves some careful consideration - is it really a sign that "upstairs" have made their decision?

If that is the case - one could say "premocracy" prevails, but, on the other hand, it's a sign that "democratic parlament" has completely failed again.

This "democratic" process was given its chance on Sunday, and it produced nothing, just a bunch of monkeys throwing bananas at each other.

If the house is dissolved and there's new elections - will PPP come back again? Everybody thinks it will, but WHY? Is it because they are so good at governing the country? Or is it because their political machinery has a complete lock up on electoral system in key regions?

There's a very difficult choice to be made, but the upside can be really really good - let PPP run without Thaksin in the background, see how they do on their own. If they fail to win, "democracy" prevails, we can go on cheering for this stupid system without any need to rethink how it should be run in this particular country.

I, personally, prefer an interim government commited to a comprehensive political reform before elections are held.

There are plenty of suggestions, from "new politics" to banning people who sold their votes to setting a minimum education standard to vote to "no taxes, no say".

There is definitely a need, the current system does not address the real probelms, everybody would agree with that, to some degree.

How about separating local and national politics altogether? Local MPs have no influence over the government policies anyway.

How about redrawing consitituenices not on geographical base but on professional/social status, as per "new politics" proposal?

At this point I admit I have to agree with Sondhi's personal four point proposal - Samak has to go, and let things run their course while the political reform is implemented.

Agreed. Thailand has only had a fully elected parliament for the last decade or so. What Thailand needs is one good constitution that will stand the test of time. Something along the lines of Sondhi's 'new politics' is probably the most workable system for Thailand. Most of Thailand's earlier constitutions were similar in structure.

Thai history since 1946 suggests that parliaments instaled by popular vote are closely followed by protest and/or coup, then a new constitution, then popular vote/protest/coup, ad infinitum. If you come from a country where the system of popular vote works (or at least you think it works), you may be repelled at the way it goes in Thailand.

One finds it easy to blame 'PAD hooligans' but in fact what you're seeing in action has been more or less 'normal' Thai politics for decades. Sondhi has made a careful study of Thai history and knows exactly how to move the cycle along.

No one wants violence and unrest. But there's no universal panacea. Let the Thais come up with a Thai solution to Thai problems.

Basically what you are saying is let the Thai elites and middle class come up with a solution to Thai problems. A huge number of Thais- probably well outnumbering the elites and middle class has a solution already: it's called represntative democracy based on the principle of one man one vote. And for those who say- oh sure- one man one bought vote- well then start from there- all sides must come to some kind of pre-election process to ensure that vote buying doesn't occur- and more important that the myth doesn't persist after the reality has changed.

THEN it's a matter of educating- not on who to vote for- but rather on how to lose an election. because one side or the other is going to. And in Thailand- there is some serious education required in that department.

[Thai at Heart]

Nowhere in "new politics" they talk about non-voting. On the contrary, in addition to simple voting, people will get a chance to actually BE in parlament, not watch in on TV once a year.

In BP's interview Sondhi said that if they get 20% of parlament filled by real people, not politicians, it would be a victory for PAD.

Real like farmers with cows or families with silver spoons? Somehow I think I know which type of people it would be.

[blaze]

Kurt, nobody is perfect (least of all me, don't take my criticism of you too personally .... I think many of us are really getting worked up by the bloody farce we are seeing on the streets of Bangkok, so I'm sorry if you took offense)

All along the oponents of PAD and Sondhi have made it crystal clear that they are not excusing Samak, Thaksin and TRT/PPP for the criminal things they did, but we were much more scared of Sondhi's perverted vendetta, his loathsome corrupt past, his neo-fascist views on voting (or rather on not-voting if you're poor and your skin is the wrong colour!), etc., etc. And then the bloody murderer of those Muslims, General Panlop was seen sliding into the PAD leadership!!!!! Too much for any right-thinking man.

It's interesting how the PAD supporters on this forum know so little about the PAD leaders.... I recommend they all give their names a google and have a read on wikipedia and others. You may be surprised what hypercrites they all are....

I think that would be true for most of the country, not just readers on TV.

I can't say I have spoken to many, but the half a dozen PAD supporters I have politely asked about Sondhi particularly have virtually no knowledge of his spoken agendas or his history of business dealings with Thaksin and the banks. They believe he is protecting the country and the monarchy.

Sophisticated bunch these educated classes.

THANKYOU- that perfectly mirrors my experience when talking to pro-PAD Thais.

[sriracha john]

PPP MPs to Launch Legal Move Against Senators Sympathetic with PAD

A number of People Power Party MPs plan to petition the Attorney-General to file legal action against some Senators who have joined the PAD rally, as they claim such a move could be considered an act of treason.

However, they claim the government MPs' collaboration with the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship is righteous, as their motive is to promote democracy.

Seventeen People Power Party members, led by Chiang Mai MP Surapong Towijakchaikul, are planning to ask the Office of the Attorney-General to file a lawsuit with the Constitution Court against a number of Senators who took to the PAD stage on August 29th.

Surapong claimed that such an action could go against Article 68 of the Constitution, which involves individuals exercising their rights being deemed as an attempt to overthrow democracy.

He stated that some Senators allegedly told PAD supporters that they became members of the Upper House after appearing on the anti-government protest stage. He said that such admittance is similar to a confession of treason charges that PAD leaders are facing.

Surapong also attached a copy of footage reportedly showing the accused Senators on the PAD stage, as evidence for the Attorney-General to pursue the case.

In addition, Chachoengsao MP Thitima Chaisang from the People Power Party commented that the appearance of certain Senators on the anti-government rally stage shows disrespect toward the Parliamentary system and supports overthrowing Thailand's democracy.

She maintained that PPP MPs who joined the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship in their rally have not committed any crime against the Constitution because they were all upholding democratic rules.

- TOC / 2008-09-04

[sriracha john]

Provincial Governors Ban Locals from Joining DAAD-PAD Rallies in Bangkok

Some provincial governors have issued a warning to their residents not to join either the anti- or the pro-government rallies in Bangkok, saying that those who do so could risk violating the state of emergency order in the capital.

Meanwhile, security has been stepped up at all key state offices across the country.

A large number of volunteers and police officers have been stationed at Kalasin City Hall and strict checks are made on all who enter the premises, for fear of undesirable incidents while the political turmoil continues.

Kalasin Provincial Police Chief, Phisanha Arweekorn Wornthepnitinant said that though both pro-government Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship and the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy supporters in the province have agreed to cease their rallies, the police will continue to monitor the situation and provide a round-the-clock security program at all key state offices.

And, Buri Ram Governor Santad Chatuchai said he has instructed all district chiefs to clarify the situation with residents in their areas, in order to prevent them from being duped into joining either the DAAD or the PAD protests in Bangkok.

Santad stated that the plan is intended to prevent locals from violating the state of emergency order and to avoid a repeat of the violent clash between the two sides.

- TOC / 2008-09-04

=======================================================

Ban Internet websites.... Ban public travel...

[animatic]

It is quite clear the PAD phenominon has gone WAY beyond the leaders individual issues.

It is now a wide reaching umbrella for many Thais who's voices have been ignored by the

incumbent clique installed by Thaksin.

So harp on the leaders all you like, that will do SQUAT to convert the little people

joining them to convert to your 'PPP right or wrong' agenda's. It has truly become

a social movement against corruption and the status quo.

By and large peaceful, in that they make minimal efforts at physical violence,

people come at THEM violently, they do not go and seek it out.

The do concentrate on ideas and use force to those ideas through civil disobediance.

PAD took over government house, but didn't do it with machettes and slingshots in a violent assault.

They simply walked in, and announcing their intention well before hand,

and the government didn't stop them, foolishly I might add, and to the

governments everlasting grief likely.

So you may not like the leader's pasts or some of their ideas,

but PAD is clearly, to an outside eye, NOT a simple idea to suppress,

because it is MANY ideas, wrapped around a core of anti-corruption,

and likely backed by the true highest powers in the land,

the heart of the people one might say.

The PAD of today, not Sondhi's start off idea,

has gone way beyond your puny attempts to discredit and demonize it.

And the actions of the other side speak volumes to their ill intentions.

I am not PAD nor do I agree with all their actions,

but this litany of harping on old issues doesn't sway me the other way at all.

Actually the inverse.

Edited September 4, 2008 by animatic

[Thai at Heart]

Nowhere in "new politics" they talk about non-voting. On the contrary, in addition to simple voting, people will get a chance to actually BE in parlament, not watch in on TV once a year.

In BP's interview Sondhi said that if they get 20% of parlament filled by real people, not politicians, it would be a victory for PAD.

Real like farmers with cows or families with silver spoons? Somehow I think I know which type of people it would be.

Part 2

From the constitution.

Equality

Section 30. All persons are equal before the law and shall enjoy equal protection under the law.

Men and women shall enjoy equal rights.

Unjust discrimination against a person on the grounds of the difference in origin, race, language, sex, age, disability, physical or health condition, personal status, economic or social standing, religious belief, education or constitutionally political view, shall not be permitted.

[paulfromphuket]

Has PAD given any reaction yet to the referendum proposal?

[chevykanteve]

Nowhere in "new politics" [do] they talk about non-voting. On the contrary, in addition to simple voting, people will get a chance to actually BE in parlament, not watch in [sic] on TV once a year.

In BP's interview Sondhi said that if they get 20% of parlament [sic] filled by real people, not politicians, it would be a victory for PAD.

The PAD's "new politics" is equatable with a dictatorship of the privileged over the majority. 'New politics' is another PAD-style catch-phrase/platitude designed to propagandize people with its veneer of "credibility". Nonetheless, Plus, a toast to your persistence as a stalwart-PAD supporter on this forum.

[Ricardo]

Which side was the fish on?

Neither ... it was a 'floating' voter.

[LaoPo]

There are plenty of suggestions, from "new politics" to banning people who sold their votes to setting a minimum education standard to vote to "no taxes, no say".

At this point I admit I have to agree with Sondhi's personal four point proposal - Samak has to go, and let things run their course while the political reform is implemented.

Your suggestions are VERY dangerous !

1. banning people who sold votes means you have to ban people who accepted them too and that would be a large majority of the Thai people. That does not mean I agree with vote selling/buying. But you have to reform from within the system, not ban people.

2. Setting MINIMUM education standards for voting rights is plain right DISCRIMINATION Sir ! It's the same as discriminating more than 3 Billion people in Asia and seal their mouths bwecause they didn't have proper eduction, for whatever reason...

3. And..WHO the heck is Sondhi that one man can propose 4 (actually more) points to change the political system in the country ? I'd better start another topic to warn for this man and his gang. He's a bloody failed businessman who got bankrupt and therefore started this war....out of revenge, nothing more nothing less...

The man has NO track record of governance and such a man would be allowed to draw a plan for the future of Thailand.....

Really ?

LaoPo

[cmsally]

There was actually a book/paper published called Chamlong Srimuang and New Thai Politics

Maybe this is where the idea came from. Anyone read it?

[animatic]

There are plenty of suggestions, from "new politics" to banning people who sold their votes to setting a minimum education standard to vote to "no taxes, no say".

At this point I admit I have to agree with Sondhi's personal four point proposal - Samak has to go, and let things run their course while the political reform is implemented.

Your suggestions are VERY dangerous !

1. banning people who sold votes means you have to ban people who accepted them too and that would be a large majority of the Thai people. That does not mean I agree with vote selling/buying. But you have to reform from within the system, not ban people.

2. Setting MINIMUM education standards for voting rights is plain right DISCRIMINATION Sir ! It's the same as discriminating more than 3 Billion people in Asia and seal their mouths bwecause they didn't have proper eduction, for whatever reason...

3.

And..WHO the heck is Sondhi that one man can propose 4 (actually more) points to change the political system in the country ? I'd better start another topic to warn for this man and his gang. He's a bloody failed businessman who got bankrupt and therefore started this war....out of revenge, nothing more nothing less...

The man has NO track record of governance and such a man would be allowed to draw a plan for the future of Thailand.....

Really ?

LaoPo

Point one

Banning for life from voting is a non starter, possibly for 2 national elections might be valid.

But really the vote BUYER is the real culpret the seller is being manipulated.

Point two

I agree that minimum education rights is like Jim Crow keeping majority black voters

out of the polls ins post civil war USA. It is another non starter.

Point Three

Sondhi as a Thai Citizen has every right to make ANY proposal he likes for a form of government in Thailand.

If he can gather enough support around the idea, he can implement it legaly, as a Thai citizen.

He is free to lobby for the idea also.

This is NOT an argument for or against the current methods in play, just general facts.

I propose that we import south pole penguins and build ice factories for them to stay cool,

to replace the current government and parllement, and pay them with 2 fish per day.

To be weighed by the courts each morning. They will act more civilly and better dressed too.

It is a proposal, are you scared by it,

even if PPP isn't included in the mix?

Seems for the PPP, IDEAS are scarier than most things.

Why else do they try so hard to silence dissenting voices?

Edited September 4, 2008 by animatic

[paulfromphuket]

really, has PAD given a reaction yet to the proposal of a referendum?

If not a day has passed with no progress.