State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[hammered]

EC demands 6 months to prepare referendum

From the post: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=130408

[ubonjoe]

Thai PM lifts emergency rule

Thailand's prime minister has lifted the state of emergency he imposed on the capital this week. Samak Sundaravej has offered to hold a referendum to end the standoff with opponents demanding he resign. But hundreds of protesters continued to occupy the grounds of Government House in Bangkok on Friday.

The Thai government approved plans for a national referendum on Thursday.

"The referendum is to ask public opinion and the prime minister has agreed to it as a possible solution to solve the problem," Somsak Kiatsuranont, the culture minister, said after a special cabinet meeting at the army headquarters in Bangkok.

Somsak said on Thursday that the process for drafting the referendum would start immediately. On live radio on Thursday, Samak said that he would not resign nor dissolve parliament.

Abhisit Vejjajiva, the opposition Democrat party leader, told Al Jazeera it was probably "unconstitutional" to hold a referendum on a person or a group of people.

"If the PM really would like the verdict of the country, why not dissolve the house?" he said.

"We're not disputing that the house is democratically elected, but subsequent actions by this government is judged to have been wrong ... violating the constitution by the constitutional court, as well as a series of scandals.

"In any civilised democracy, the government would have shown some kind of responsibility or accountability by now."

Samak has been facing repeated calls to resign from anti-government protesters - led by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) - who have been camped out on his office lawn since last week.

He has repeatedly refused to resign, vowing not to bow to the demands of street protesters he described as a "freak cult" seeking anarchy.

He insisted that he will "stay in order to preserve democracy and to protect the monarchy".

If his opponents wanted him out, they should use the courts and not take to the streets, he said.

The referendum, if it proceeds, will be only the second ever in the kingdom. The first was in 2007, passing a new military-backed constitution formed after a coup a few months earlier.

- Al Jazeera

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...3431469616.html

UPDATED ON:

Friday, September 05, 2008

07:07 Mecca time, 04:07 GMT

Thats 11:07 here right? Nothing in the local news

Edited September 5, 2008 by ubonjoe

[Artisi]

Some hypothetical questions. (I realize monitoring is not realistic, so please use your imagination and try to answer seriously)

1.Would any of the PAD supporters here accept the outcome of a referendum if it was monitored to ensure it was fair....and the questions put forward were agreed to by both the government and the PAD?

3.Do you believe Sondhi would recognize the majorities vote if it did not go in his favor?

Do you believe that Samark would recognize the majorities vote if it did not go in his favor?

[h90]

Thai PM lifts emergency rule

Thailand's prime minister has lifted the state of emergency he imposed on the capital this week. Samak Sundaravej has offered to hold a referendum to end the standoff with opponents demanding he resign. But hundreds of protesters continued to occupy the grounds of Government House in Bangkok on Friday.

The Thai government approved plans for a national referendum on Thursday.

"The referendum is to ask public opinion and the prime minister has agreed to it as a possible solution to solve the problem," Somsak Kiatsuranont, the culture minister, said after a special cabinet meeting at the army headquarters in Bangkok.

Somsak said on Thursday that the process for drafting the referendum would start immediately. On live radio on Thursday, Samak said that he would not resign nor dissolve parliament.

Abhisit Vejjajiva, the opposition Democrat party leader, told Al Jazeera it was probably "unconstitutional" to hold a referendum on a person or a group of people.

"If the PM really would like the verdict of the country, why not dissolve the house?" he said.

"We're not disputing that the house is democratically elected, but subsequent actions by this government is judged to have been wrong ... violating the constitution by the constitutional court, as well as a series of scandals.

"In any civilised democracy, the government would have shown some kind of responsibility or accountability by now."

Samak has been facing repeated calls to resign from anti-government protesters - led by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) - who have been camped out on his office lawn since last week.

He has repeatedly refused to resign, vowing not to bow to the demands of street protesters he described as a "freak cult" seeking anarchy.

He insisted that he will "stay in order to preserve democracy and to protect the monarchy".

If his opponents wanted him out, they should use the courts and not take to the streets, he said.

The referendum, if it proceeds, will be only the second ever in the kingdom. The first was in 2007, passing a new military-backed constitution formed after a coup a few months earlier.

- Al Jazeera

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...3431469616.html

and the nation and bangkok post does not mention that there is no emergency law anymore?

[sriracha john]

Thai PM offers unusual compromise

Bangkok - Thailand's prime minister refused again on Thursday to cede to protesters determined to oust him, but offered an unconventional compromise - a referendum on his fate aimed at ending the crisis paralyzing the government.

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej hopes the vote will allow him to keep his job while placating the People's Alliance for Democracy, which has vowed to continue its campaign, including occupying the seat of government, until Samak quits.

The referendum will ask the public to choose between the alliance and the government, but many analysts say a simple yes-no vote is insufficient.

The alliance ridiculed the plan, saying Samak will manipulate the vote again.

"The referendum is an attempt by Samak to buy himself some more time in the office," Sondhi Limthongkul, one of the protest leaders, said.

Before announcing the surprise referendum, Samak delivered a combative speech on national radio, again refusing to step down.

"I will not abandon the ship, and I will take responsibility for the crew on board," Samak said. "I am not resigning. I have to protect the democracy of this country."

But some have said the referendum could aggravate rather than alleviate the political deadlock.

"It would not be effective as a tool to solve a complicated political crisis with many conditions and layers," said Panithan Wattanayagorn, a professor at Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University.

- Associated Press / September 05 2008

[cmsally]

Maybe just to buy time until the PAD's money runs out.

[ubonjoe]

(BangkokPost.com) - An army of reporters waited in vain at the army headquarters on Friday morning after army chief Anupong Paojinda, who heads the committee enforcing the state of emergency, did not give a news conference as scheduled.

The conference was scheduled at 10am.

Gen Anupong, who usually goes to work early, did not show up at the headquarters this morning.

[sabaijai]

Actually, Tej resignation deserves some careful consideration - is it really a sign that "upstairs" have made their decision?

If that is the case - one could say "premocracy" prevails, but, on the other hand, it's a sign that "democratic parlament" has completely failed again.

This "democratic" process was given its chance on Sunday, and it produced nothing, just a bunch of monkeys throwing bananas at each other.

If the house is dissolved and there's new elections - will PPP come back again? Everybody thinks it will, but WHY? Is it because they are so good at governing the country? Or is it because their political machinery has a complete lock up on electoral system in key regions?

There's a very difficult choice to be made, but the upside can be really really good - let PPP run without Thaksin in the background, see how they do on their own. If they fail to win, "democracy" prevails, we can go on cheering for this stupid system without any need to rethink how it should be run in this particular country.

I, personally, prefer an interim government commited to a comprehensive political reform before elections are held.

There are plenty of suggestions, from "new politics" to banning people who sold their votes to setting a minimum education standard to vote to "no taxes, no say".

There is definitely a need, the current system does not address the real probelms, everybody would agree with that, to some degree.

How about separating local and national politics altogether? Local MPs have no influence over the government policies anyway.

How about redrawing consitituenices not on geographical base but on professional/social status, as per "new politics" proposal?

At this point I admit I have to agree with Sondhi's personal four point proposal - Samak has to go, and let things run their course while the political reform is implemented.

Agreed. Thailand has only had a fully elected parliament for the last decade or so. What Thailand needs is one good constitution that will stand the test of time. Something along the lines of Sondhi's 'new politics' is probably the most workable system for Thailand. Most of Thailand's earlier constitutions were similar in structure.

Thai history since 1946 suggests that parliaments instaled by popular vote are closely followed by protest and/or coup, then a new constitution, then popular vote/protest/coup, ad infinitum. If you come from a country where the system of popular vote works (or at least you think it works), you may be repelled at the way it goes in Thailand.

One finds it easy to blame 'PAD hooligans' but in fact what you're seeing in action has been more or less 'normal' Thai politics for decades. Sondhi has made a careful study of Thai history and knows exactly how to move the cycle along.

No one wants violence and unrest. But there's no universal panacea. Let the Thais come up with a Thai solution to Thai problems.

Basically what you are saying is let the Thai elites and middle class come up with a solution to Thai problems. A huge number of Thais- probably well outnumbering the elites and middle class has a solution already: it's called represntative democracy based on the principle of one man one vote. And for those who say- oh sure- one man one bought vote- well then start from there- all sides must come to some kind of pre-election process to ensure that vote buying doesn't occur- and more important that the myth doesn't persist after the reality has changed.

THEN it's a matter of educating- not on who to vote for- but rather on how to lose an election. because one side or the other is going to. And in Thailand- there is some serious education required in that department.

That's not what I said. Rather that the one man one vote system has failed in this country, has always led to violence and economic stagnation. Read your Thai history. In fact the PAD movement is made up of folks from all sectors of society -- have a look at the protest crowds up close sometime. To break the cycle the country needs to look at new ways of governance.

[hammered]

(BangkokPost.com) - An army of reporters waited in vain at the army headquarters on Friday morning after army chief Anupong Paojinda, who heads the committee enforcing the state of emergency, did not give a news conference as scheduled.

The conference was scheduled at 10am.

Gen Anupong, who usually goes to work early, did not show up at the headquarters this morning.

Has he been removed? This will have all kinds of gossip going

[esprit]

(BangkokPost.com) - An army of reporters waited in vain at the army headquarters on Friday morning after army chief Anupong Paojinda, who heads the committee enforcing the state of emergency, did not give a news conference as scheduled.

The conference was scheduled at 10am.

Gen Anupong, who usually goes to work early, did not show up at the headquarters this morning.

Has he been removed? This will have all kinds of gossip going

Nor has my secretary - is this a conspiracy ?

[h90]

it seems there is still the emergency law. The police warned the students that every gattering of more than 5 people is illegal under the EL

[hammered]

(BangkokPost.com) - An army of reporters waited in vain at the army headquarters on Friday morning after army chief Anupong Paojinda, who heads the committee enforcing the state of emergency, did not give a news conference as scheduled.

The conference was scheduled at 10am.

Gen Anupong, who usually goes to work early, did not show up at the headquarters this morning.

Has he been removed? This will have all kinds of gossip going

Nor has my secretary - is this a conspiracy ?

The ole one day Friday flu

[sriracha john]

Editorial Desk

Directionless Thailand falters on world stage

Golden opportunities of ASEAN summit stand to be squandered thanks to Samak's disastrous leadership

It must be pretty awkward for ASEAN senior officials who have been meeting in Hua Hin over the past two days to work out plans for the upcoming ASEAN summit, which Thailand will host in mid-December - a little more than three months away.

This summit, which will be the second hosted by Thailand, is an important one, as the leaders of sixteen countries from the region will come to Bangkok for a series of high-profile meetings.

Most importantly, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon is scheduled to hold a summit meeting with ASEAN leaders for the first time.

These summits could be an ideal showcase for Thailand's diplomacy and governance. They could also be a curse if the current Thai government fails to live up to this noble duty.

Two huge problems weigh on the host - one has to do with the current political uncertainty and the other concerns the beleaguered leadership of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej.

The political crisis deepened further when Samak adamantly maintained that he would continue as prime minister, and would not dissolve Parliament, as many had expected. At the same time, the Army, which was given a full range of powers to keep public order, has refused to use force to purge the People's Alliance for Democracy from Government House. Army Chief General Anupong Paochinda has so far kept his word. But if the current stalemate continues, it could endanger his standing and he may be tempted to use force.

Obviously, Samak has been trying to portray himself on radio broadcasts as the victim of unfair treatment by the PAD. He continues his tirades against every sector of the Thai society. In his eyes, everybody is at fault - he stands alone as an innocent man.

As far his leadership style is concerned, Samak is a menace. He thrives on contradictions and strong rhetoric. Through his radio messages yesterday, he repeatedly said that he is the window of Thailand to the world. *too bad for Thailand*

He said he was proud of his accomplishments as the head of the government, his negotiations and his ability to forge closer friendships with foreign countries. He even boasted that he often attends national day receptions to strengthen Thailand's friendships with countries around the world.

The other day, when he talked to CNN, he could not control his temper and ended up getting nasty with the CNN correspondent. *as commented on earlier in the thread*

Such outbursts are at odds with his conceited portrayal of himself as the embodiment of Thai foreign policy. He does not realise that he actually is the main problem. His frequent remarks praising the Burmese junta at the beginning of his premiership *also just recently posted on* and more recently his comments on the role of Aung San Suu Kyi added salt to the wounds.

A leader like Samak will have difficulty meeting on a par with the foreign leaders who will converge here.

Diplomats from ASEAN's dialogue partners have expressed concern over the ongoing political quagmire. If the situation worsens in the coming weeks, it could affect the scheduled official visits of these leaders. It is also unclear whether Samak will remain prime minister, as the situation remains very fluid.

Finally, Thailand has yet to ratify the ASEAN Charter. *well, they've just been too busy trying to amend the constitution for Thaksin to return without charges and receive his money*

If the current Parliament session fails to do that in the coming days, it would be a shame - not only for Thailand but for ASEAN as well.

As the summit host, Thailand is expected to implement the charter, with its expected ratification from all members. Both the Philippines and Indonesia have promised that their lawmakers will ratify the charter ahead of the summit.

- The Nation / 2008-09-05

[kurtgruen]

from toc

SNAP UPDATE: Army Chief Cancels Press Conference

UPDATE : 5 September 2008

Army Commander-in-chief General Anupong Paochinda has cancelled the press conference which was scheduled to take place at 10 a.m. this morning.

Initially a press conference was scheduled for the Army chief to explain about Cabinet's resolution yesterday which transfers the power to mobilize the armed forces solely into the hands of the Prime Minister.

The press briefing was cancelled without any reason given to the media.

end quote

what is this????????

Good Morning everyone. Did I miss something? Is it true that Cabinet passed a resolution to transfer power of the armed forces solely into the hands of the PM? If that is the case, we can definitely expect a coup, I think.

Too much rice - Not enough Protein

Put the power of the armed forces solely into the hands of the PM is half a coup in my opinion....

I doubt that this news are true. The Army is under HM the King, so I guess something is translated wrong.

I agree, I have read nothing in Thai media about either the end to the State of Emergency or an armed forces transfer of power.

Too much rice - Not enough protein

[sriracha john]

(BangkokPost.com) - An army of reporters waited in vain at the army headquarters on Friday morning after army chief Anupong Paojinda, who heads the committee enforcing the state of emergency, did not give a news conference as scheduled.

The conference was scheduled at 10am.

Gen Anupong, who usually goes to work early, did not show up at the headquarters this morning.

Has he been removed? This will have all kinds of gossip going

Nor has my secretary - is this a conspiracy ?

The ole one day Friday flu

OR.... perhaps a mutual rendezvous???

Edited September 5, 2008 by sriracha john

[hammered]

from toc

SNAP UPDATE: Army Chief Cancels Press Conference

UPDATE : 5 September 2008

Army Commander-in-chief General Anupong Paochinda has cancelled the press conference which was scheduled to take place at 10 a.m. this morning.

Initially a press conference was scheduled for the Army chief to explain about Cabinet's resolution yesterday which transfers the power to mobilize the armed forces solely into the hands of the Prime Minister.

The press briefing was cancelled without any reason given to the media.

end quote

what is this????????

Good Morning everyone. Did I miss something? Is it true that Cabinet passed a resolution to transfer power of the armed forces solely into the hands of the PM? If that is the case, we can definitely expect a coup, I think.

Too much rice - Not enough Protein

Put the power of the armed forces solely into the hands of the PM is half a coup in my opinion....

I doubt that this news are true. The Army is under HM the King, so I guess something is translated wrong.

I agree, I have read nothing in Thai media about either the end to the State of Emergency or an armed forces transfer of power.

Too much rice - Not enough protein

There could be more to it than you think. Samak wont want troops moving around right now unless it is his Thaksin loyalists.

[thaigene2]

....... And shut down the bloody TV stations that serve nothing but soaps to the masses -

if Thais don't get soaps, they'll do something, such as protest the government -

and be it just to get their soaps back.

Go PAD!

At least they DO something.

Regards

Thanh

LOL so true.

Remove the soporific of the masses, and the masses become restless.

Let the free flow of ALL opinion go to the masses, and the masses become restless.

Inform the masses that their leaders are stealing from them, the masses become restless.

Inform the masses that their leaders don't respect their wishes, and the masses become restless.

Answer: mindless soaps with characters you can identify with dealing with

everyday problems of NO CONSEQUENCE WHAT-SO-EVER to the country.

Well, well...something we all agree on!

Bet you didn't know that the soaps are used here to keep the masses in line, now did you? They re-inforce the feudalist/guanxi families as the rightful rulers of the country, while everone else is a servant. The proletariat audiences love it because it provides escapism into a fantasy world of beauty and wealth. But the sinister thread is as I mentioned above - to make sure you know how powerful the rich really are - and never to cross them.

It's a tool widely used in other countries too. There aren't many soaps about poor people and everyday lives in THailand are there? Yet in many, many other countries those types of soaps are quite common.

East Enders produced by the BBC (or some other company now, not sure) for many years was the most-watched soap opera in the world, translated into dozens of languages. Now I believe the Koreans are big in exports.

Anyway, point is that here in Thailand, the soaps of just another thought-control tool of the elites to brainwash the collective society.

[sriracha john]

80 percent of foreign tourists cancel plans to Thailand

Asian Train Company Tour Driver Sinchai Rattanarat stated that his business, which mostly caters to high income foreigners has been heavily affected by cancellations of tourists to Thailand caused by rallying.

The nation has seen up to 80 percent of it foreign tourists cancelling their plans to visit due to uncertainty about the nation's situation.

The current drop in tourism is now more severe than during the tsunami incident and has especially spurned fears in the Western world.

Member of a local handicrafts collection in Surin province, Mrs. Pranee Thiprat stated that usually during this time of year her textile business see's much tourist interest, but instead there have been no visitors to the area for the past 2 weeks. She stated that other vendors in the area have been similarly affected.

- ThaiNews / 2008-09-05

[sriracha john]

....... And shut down the bloody TV stations that serve nothing but soaps to the masses -

if Thais don't get soaps, they'll do something, such as protest the government -

and be it just to get their soaps back.

Go PAD!

At least they DO something.

Regards

Thanh

LOL so true.

Remove the soporific of the masses, and the masses become restless.

Let the free flow of ALL opinion go to the masses, and the masses become restless.

Inform the masses that their leaders are stealing from them, the masses become restless.

Inform the masses that their leaders don't respect their wishes, and the masses become restless.

Answer: mindless soaps with characters you can identify with dealing with

everyday problems of NO CONSEQUENCE WHAT-SO-EVER to the country.

Well, well...something we all agree on!

Bet you didn't know that the soaps are used here to keep the masses in line, now did you? They re-inforce the feudalist/guanxi families as the rightful rulers of the country, while everone else is a servant. The proletariat audiences love it because it provides escapism into a fantasy world of beauty and wealth. But the sinister thread is as I mentioned above - to make sure you know how powerful the rich really are - and never to cross them.

It's a tool widely used in other countries too. There aren't many soaps about poor people and everyday lives in THailand are there? Yet in many, many other countries those types of soaps are quite common.

East Enders produced by the BBC (or some other company now, not sure) for many years was the most-watched soap opera in the world, translated into dozens of languages. Now I believe the Koreans are big in exports.

Anyway, point is that here in Thailand, the soaps of just another thought-control tool of the elites to brainwash the collective society.

They may not be doing a very good job of it. A number of Thais have told me that their attraction to the soaps is waiting for the inevitable scene where an elite gets their "come-uppance" and is either mocked, had their hair pulled, ridiculed, pushed into a mud puddle, or any other of the myriad of events that seemingly almost always befall the elite characters in these soaps. The non-elites revel in watching these scenes.

Edited September 5, 2008 by sriracha john

[Kerryd]

80 percent of foreign tourists cancel plans to Thailand

Asian Train Company Tour Driver Sinchai Rattanarat stated that his business, which mostly caters to high income foreigners has been heavily affected by cancellations of tourists to Thailand caused by rallying.

Doesn't seem to be affecting the baht much though. It seems to still be within .5 of where it has been trading (against the Cdn $) for over a month. Between the tourism problems (airport closures/cancellations), train stoppages, port stoppages, etc, you'd think the baht would be taking a bigger hit.

[ubonjoe]

Al Jazeera has taken down the reference to the state of emergency

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...3431469616.html

Edited September 5, 2008 by ubonjoe

[animatic]

from toc

SNAP UPDATE: Army Chief Cancels Press Conference

UPDATE : 5 September 2008

Army Commander-in-chief General Anupong Paochinda has cancelled the press conference which was scheduled to take place at 10 a.m. this morning.

Initially a press conference was scheduled for the Army chief to explain about Cabinet's resolution yesterday which transfers the power to mobilize the armed forces solely into the hands of the Prime Minister.

The press briefing was cancelled without any reason given to the media.

end quote

what is this????????

Good Morning everyone. Did I miss something? Is it true that Cabinet passed a resolution to transfer power of the armed forces solely into the hands of the PM? If that is the case, we can definitely expect a coup, I think.

Too much rice - Not enough Protein

Put the power of the armed forces solely into the hands of the PM is half a coup in my opinion....

I doubt that this news are true. The Army is under HM the King, so I guess something is translated wrong.

Just like the whole cabinet voted to support Noppadon in his unconstitutional

Prea Vear agreement without considering the legal issues,

so they apparently have just usurped the power of HRM ...

in a mad dash to exchange a business unfriendly SoE for a

total usurping of Army Leaders control of the army.

If I had not thought that Samak and his buddies couldn't manage to dig

themselves a bigger deep hole, I would have been surprised at this.

But the depth and grandure of this faux pas buggers imagination.

[Journalist]

Bet you didn't know that the soaps are used here to keep the masses in line, now did you?

It's a tool widely used in other countries too. There aren't many soaps about poor people and everyday lives in THailand are there? Yet in many, many other countries those types of soaps are quite common.

Yes, 'they' are controlling our thoughts and making us a race of compliant serfs via a diet of addictive televisual inanity.

Pass me the potato chips....

[blaze]

Actually, Tej resignation deserves some careful consideration - is it really a sign that "upstairs" have made their decision?

If that is the case - one could say "premocracy" prevails, but, on the other hand, it's a sign that "democratic parlament" has completely failed again.

This "democratic" process was given its chance on Sunday, and it produced nothing, just a bunch of monkeys throwing bananas at each other.

If the house is dissolved and there's new elections - will PPP come back again? Everybody thinks it will, but WHY? Is it because they are so good at governing the country? Or is it because their political machinery has a complete lock up on electoral system in key regions?

There's a very difficult choice to be made, but the upside can be really really good - let PPP run without Thaksin in the background, see how they do on their own. If they fail to win, "democracy" prevails, we can go on cheering for this stupid system without any need to rethink how it should be run in this particular country.

I, personally, prefer an interim government commited to a comprehensive political reform before elections are held.

There are plenty of suggestions, from "new politics" to banning people who sold their votes to setting a minimum education standard to vote to "no taxes, no say".

There is definitely a need, the current system does not address the real probelms, everybody would agree with that, to some degree.

How about separating local and national politics altogether? Local MPs have no influence over the government policies anyway.

How about redrawing consitituenices not on geographical base but on professional/social status, as per "new politics" proposal?

At this point I admit I have to agree with Sondhi's personal four point proposal - Samak has to go, and let things run their course while the political reform is implemented.

Agreed. Thailand has only had a fully elected parliament for the last decade or so. What Thailand needs is one good constitution that will stand the test of time. Something along the lines of Sondhi's 'new politics' is probably the most workable system for Thailand. Most of Thailand's earlier constitutions were similar in structure.

Thai history since 1946 suggests that parliaments instaled by popular vote are closely followed by protest and/or coup, then a new constitution, then popular vote/protest/coup, ad infinitum. If you come from a country where the system of popular vote works (or at least you think it works), you may be repelled at the way it goes in Thailand.

One finds it easy to blame 'PAD hooligans' but in fact what you're seeing in action has been more or less 'normal' Thai politics for decades. Sondhi has made a careful study of Thai history and knows exactly how to move the cycle along.

No one wants violence and unrest. But there's no universal panacea. Let the Thais come up with a Thai solution to Thai problems.

Basically what you are saying is let the Thai elites and middle class come up with a solution to Thai problems. A huge number of Thais- probably well outnumbering the elites and middle class has a solution already: it's called represntative democracy based on the principle of one man one vote. And for those who say- oh sure- one man one bought vote- well then start from there- all sides must come to some kind of pre-election process to ensure that vote buying doesn't occur- and more important that the myth doesn't persist after the reality has changed.

THEN it's a matter of educating- not on who to vote for- but rather on how to lose an election. because one side or the other is going to. And in Thailand- there is some serious education required in that department.

That's not what I said. Rather that the one man one vote system has failed in this country, has always led to violence and economic stagnation. Read your Thai history. In fact the PAD movement is made up of folks from all sectors of society -- have a look at the protest crowds up close sometime. To break the cycle the country needs to look at new ways of governance.

I disagree with you- I think that the violence- until this year- that had occured in this country ('76, '92) was due to the failure of the military dictatorships- not due to the failure of one man one vote.

If however you are talking about the fact that Democracy has never had much of a chance to really instill itself into the popular conciousness- because every few years there's a coup (usually non-violent) - then perhaps there's where analysis of what's ailing the system should begin.

[grantbkk]

Al Jazeera has taken down the reference to the state of emergency

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...3431469616.html

Finally some good news for Soi 3! Thank (fill in the name)!

[animatic]

....... And shut down the bloody TV stations that serve nothing but soaps to the masses -

if Thais don't get soaps, they'll do something, such as protest the government -

and be it just to get their soaps back.

Go PAD!

At least they DO something.

Regards

Thanh

LOL so true.

Remove the soporific of the masses, and the masses become restless.

Let the free flow of ALL opinion go to the masses, and the masses become restless.

Inform the masses that their leaders are stealing from them, the masses become restless.Inform the masses that their leaders don't respect their wishes, and the masses become restless.

Answer: mindless soaps with characters you can identify with dealing with

everyday problems of NO CONSEQUENCE WHAT-SO-EVER to the country.

Well, well...something we all agree on!

Bet you didn't know that the soaps are used here to keep the masses in line, now did you? They re-inforce the feudalist/guanxi families as the rightful rulers of the country, while everone else is a servant. The proletariat audiences love it because it provides escapism into a fantasy world of beauty and wealth. But the sinister thread is as I mentioned above - to make sure you know how powerful the rich really are - and never to cross them.

It's a tool widely used in other countries too. There aren't many soaps about poor people and everyday lives in THailand are there? Yet in many, many other countries those types of soaps are quite common.

East Enders produced by the BBC (or some other company now, not sure) for many years was the most-watched soap opera in the world, translated into dozens of languages. Now I believe the Koreans are big in exports.

Anyway, point is that here in Thailand, the soaps of just another thought-control tool of the elites to brainwash the collective society.

More pleasant distraction with a patina of thought control.

The women love the romance and hero's coming to save the

poor pretty good hearted girl; more Lockinbar fantasy,

and the bad gansters get a cumpupance giving hope for justice.

Escapism from the reality they live in.

Since government machinations seem just as bad a street BS,

they ignore that too, in favor of love, and hope, and the

comedy relief katoey incarnated in their fav soap characters..

[ubonjoe]

Al Jazeera has taken down the reference to the state of emergency

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pac...3431469616.html

Finally some good news for Soi 3! Thank (fill in the name)!

Earlier the headling had read that the state of emergency had beel lifted.

Evidently a goof up by them.

You need to go gack a page or two to find the news post.

Sorry for the confusion.

Edited September 5, 2008 by ubonjoe

[h90]

from toc

SNAP UPDATE: Army Chief Cancels Press Conference

UPDATE : 5 September 2008

Army Commander-in-chief General Anupong Paochinda has cancelled the press conference which was scheduled to take place at 10 a.m. this morning.

Initially a press conference was scheduled for the Army chief to explain about Cabinet's resolution yesterday which transfers the power to mobilize the armed forces solely into the hands of the Prime Minister.

The press briefing was cancelled without any reason given to the media.

end quote

what is this????????

Good Morning everyone. Did I miss something? Is it true that Cabinet passed a resolution to transfer power of the armed forces solely into the hands of the PM? If that is the case, we can definitely expect a coup, I think.

Too much rice - Not enough Protein

Put the power of the armed forces solely into the hands of the PM is half a coup in my opinion....

I doubt that this news are true. The Army is under HM the King, so I guess something is translated wrong.

Just like the whole cabinet voted to support Noppadon in his unconstitutional

Prea Vear agreement without considering the legal issues,

so they apparently have just usurped the power of HRM ...

in a mad dash to exchange a business unfriendly SoE for a

total usurping of Army Leaders control of the army.

If I had not thought that Samak and his buddies couldn't manage to dig

themselves a bigger deep hole, I would have been surprised at this.

But the depth and grandure of this faux pas buggers imagination.

something strange is happening...some power struggle inside I think

[Splatter]

It's not just the soaps.

Have you seen the shampoo and skin cream adverts !!!!

And all that dancing in the aisles of Tesco Lotus. WOW indeed.

[hammered]

Matichon report that Isaan Pattana say Thaksin wants a house disolution.