Electric Bill

[bretth7377]

I just got my electric bill and I was shocked, 6,960 bht for 1 month for a 105 sqm condo. I've read different condos charge different amount for electricity. Can some one tell me where I should look on the bill for this? I see it has some thai writing and then says (Ft) and below that it says 62.85.

Then I see it says:

150 (1 - 150): 270.705

250 (151 - 400): 694.525

1455: 4,332.990

this is obviously a breakdown but I'm just not sure what it means. Any help would be appreciated.

[joncl]

I just got my electric bill and I was shocked, 6,960 bht for 1 month for a 105 sqm condo. I've read different condos charge different amount for electricity. Can some one tell me where I should look on the bill for this? I see it has some thai writing and then says (Ft) and below that it says 62.85.

Then I see it says:

150 (1 - 150): 270.705

250 (151 - 400): 694.525

1455: 4,332.990

this is obviously a breakdown but I'm just not sure what it means. Any help would be appreciated.

Ask your condo management people to explain it to you.

[niggle]

The meaning of the electricity bill is simple - they are ripping you off big time or you are paying for someone elses electric as well

[Tywais]

150 (1 - 150): 270.705

250 (151 - 400): 694.525

1455: 4,332.990

this is obviously a breakdown but I'm just not sure what it means. Any help would be appreciated.

I believe it means the first 150 units (kwH) is 270.705 Baht, then next 250 units is 694.525 Baht, and a final 1455 units 4,332.990. Now how you can use that many units in a condo beats me. The price breakdown per unit seems about right but the total number of units is strange. My 4 bedroom, 2 story house with lots of appliances and AC running every night uses only about 600 units total.

I would question that 1455 units.

[Naam]

I just got my electric bill and I was shocked, 6,960 bht for 1 month for a 105 sqm condo.

if you have 3 average size aircons on full blast 24/7 your bill is rather low.

[lopburi3]

The bill looks correct and you are being charged the normal rate. My bill was the same

+270.705

+694.525

5184.698 for total of 1741 units

6,149.93 subtotal

8,063.99 total

But have five bedroom house, one ac runs 24 hours and 3 others at night. Five refrigerators also add up.

Your total usage seems high unless you use ac a lot. Turn everything off and check your meter to make sure someone else has not taped into it. I would do with plugs out/items turned off rather than main breaker as they might have wired from your breaker panel after the main switch.

[GungaDin]

Five refrigerators

Are you running a morgue?

[lopburi3]

Ten people in the house so a lot of food each day. Only 3 are large units.

[PattayaParent]

In my 2 bedroom 105m2 bedroom condo I get electric bills of around 1,000 Baht a month and that's at a rate of 5 Baht a unit.

[foxxx]

my old condo (new building - first tenants), was a studio with 1 aircon, laptop and tv. our monthly electric bill was 4,500 - 6,200 @ 7thb per unit... (conscious of using the aircon etc as little as possible - oh and we had solar hot water - so no hot water unit thing)

our current place, 2 bedroom townhouse with 3 aircons, desktop computer, laptop, bigger tv, ps3, and more, aircons are on more and everything is used more, is 1,200 for a month at 3thb per unit. (didn't care about how many aircons were on or for how long)...

work that one out.

Edited September 5, 2008 by foxxx

[dingdongrb]

The bill looks correct and you are being charged the normal rate. My bill was the same

+270.705

+694.525

5184.698 for total of 1741 units

6,149.93 subtotal

8,063.99 total

But have five bedroom house, one ac runs 24 hours and 3 others at night. Five refrigerators also add up.

Your total usage seems high unless you use ac a lot. Turn everything off and check your meter to make sure someone else has not taped into it. I would do with plugs out/items turned off rather than main breaker as they might have wired from your breaker panel after the main switch.

Lop has suggested the right idea to trouble-shoot or identify electricity usage. Look at your meter and see how fast it is spinning around. Then unplug everything, one at a time while looking at your meter each time to see which item is consuming the most electricity.

One note though, my Mother when she had a condo in Florida had ridiculously high electric bills compared to her neighbors and reported this to the condo association. They sent over a maintenance guy and he did exactly what I described above. When everything in her entire condo was disconnected the meter was still spinning around at a high speed. It was found later (after inspecting the incoming main to ensure nobody was tapping into it) that there was two smoke detectors that were 'hard wired' into the 110VAC line and one of them was defective, thus drawing massive amounts of current. Once it was disconnected and replaced then an electric bill with an average amount was seen.

[think_too_mut]

I just got my electric bill and I was shocked, 6,960 bht for 1 month for a 105 sqm condo. I've read different condos charge different amount for electricity. Can some one tell me where I should look on the bill for this? I see it has some thai writing and then says (Ft) and below that it says 62.85.

Then I see it says:

150 (1 - 150): 270.705

250 (151 - 400): 694.525

1455: 4,332.990

this is obviously a breakdown but I'm just not sure what it means. Any help would be appreciated.

Somebody posted this link to Electricity Authority

but it's not showing up.

The main site (within which the link has moved) is still on, I can't navigate it, it's in Thai:

Provincial Electricity Authority

If somebody can find rules for residential, please repost it.

[Tywais]

If somebody can find rules for residential, please repost it.

http://www.pea.co.th/th/eng/downloadable/e...ricityrates.pdf

[Naam]

It was found later (after inspecting the incoming main to ensure nobody was tapping into it) that there was two smoke detectors that were 'hard wired' into the 110VAC line and one of them was defective, thus drawing massive amounts of current.

it's always refreshing to read a good joke on a boring saturday

[dingdongrb]

It was found later (after inspecting the incoming main to ensure nobody was tapping into it) that there was two smoke detectors that were 'hard wired' into the 110VAC line and one of them was defective, thus drawing massive amounts of current.

it's always refreshing to read a good joke on a boring saturday

Assure you Nam my mother didn't think that having an electric bill that was 2x the normal was a joke...

[Naam]

It was found later (after inspecting the incoming main to ensure nobody was tapping into it) that there was two smoke detectors that were 'hard wired' into the 110VAC line and one of them was defective, thus drawing massive amounts of current.

it's always refreshing to read a good joke on a boring saturday

Assure you Nam my mother didn't think that having an electric bill that was 2x the normal was a joke...

i'd like to hear the opinion of the experts ElKangorito and Crossy on the "massive amounts of current" a defective smoke detector can draw.

[dingdongrb]

It was found later (after inspecting the incoming main to ensure nobody was tapping into it) that there was two smoke detectors that were 'hard wired' into the 110VAC line and one of them was defective, thus drawing massive amounts of current.

it's always refreshing to read a good joke on a boring saturday

Assure you Nam my mother didn't think that having an electric bill that was 2x the normal was a joke...

i'd like to hear the opinion of the experts ElKangorito and Crossy on the "massive amounts of current" a defective smoke detector can draw.

A smoke detector can draw anywhere from 0 amps to infinitive amps (but it would never reach 'infinitive' before either something would burn up or the main circuit breaker would trip). Since your so called experts ElKangorito and Crossy have no idea of the make and model of the defective smoke detector I am sure that they could not possibly determine an exact resistance(s) a defective one would be in order to tell you precise current draw. Likewise without having the defective smoke detector how could they even begin to say it wouldn't be impossible? Being an EE and knowing more than just the basics of Ohms law I can truly tell you it is possible.... More so because when the smoke detector was replaced the electric bill went to normal.... So with your knowledge of current flow, resistance, and voltage drops explain to me why this is not so believable, as I would be interested in your reasoning.

And if you think that this is an unbelievable story then I won't even begin to tell you how a mouse crawled into the rheostat of my dishwasher, it got zapped and died, then over time the decaying body of the mouse changed resistance enough to turn on my dishwasher even when the safety handle was unlatched.

[longball53098]

The bill looks correct and you are being charged the normal rate. My bill was the same

+270.705

+694.525

5184.698 for total of 1741 units

6,149.93 subtotal

8,063.99 total

But have five bedroom house, one ac runs 24 hours and 3 others at night. Five refrigerators also add up.

Your total usage seems high unless you use ac a lot. Turn everything off and check your meter to make sure someone else has not taped into it. I would do with plugs out/items turned off rather than main breaker as they might have wired from your breaker panel after the main switch.

Lop has suggested the right idea to trouble-shoot or identify electricity usage. Look at your meter and see how fast it is spinning around. Then unplug everything, one at a time while looking at your meter each time to see which item is consuming the most electricity.

One note though, my Mother when she had a condo in Florida had ridiculously high electric bills compared to her neighbors and reported this to the condo association. They sent over a maintenance guy and he did exactly what I described above. When everything in her entire condo was disconnected the meter was still spinning around at a high speed. It was found later (after inspecting the incoming main to ensure nobody was tapping into it) that there was two smoke detectors that were 'hard wired' into the 110VAC line and one of them was defective, thus drawing massive amounts of current. Once it was disconnected and replaced then an electric bill with an average amount was seen.

So let me get this straight---------------------------You're saying the 2 smoke detectors were wired in to the main 120VAC coming from the condo main supply to your mother's place? In other words after the meter supplying her unit and ahead of the main consumer panel in her unit. So there was no breaker protection on those 2 detectors? If that's the case the electrician that installed them should have his ticket pulled and I would be checking more wiring in the condo.

You say "drawing massive amounts of current". How do you measure or calculate "massive"? Like Naam I am having a problem with this but without any inspection of the wiring and the detector in question I will NOT say "impossible" . I will only say very curious. I could understand a circuit or transformer in a unit that might cause an overload and draw more current but I'm not sure about this massive amounts thing. If it was this way unchecked for some time it was a fire hazard in itself if wired as you indicate.

[dingdongrb]

The bill looks correct and you are being charged the normal rate. My bill was the same

+270.705

+694.525

5184.698 for total of 1741 units

6,149.93 subtotal

8,063.99 total

But have five bedroom house, one ac runs 24 hours and 3 others at night. Five refrigerators also add up.

Your total usage seems high unless you use ac a lot. Turn everything off and check your meter to make sure someone else has not taped into it. I would do with plugs out/items turned off rather than main breaker as they might have wired from your breaker panel after the main switch.

Lop has suggested the right idea to trouble-shoot or identify electricity usage. Look at your meter and see how fast it is spinning around. Then unplug everything, one at a time while looking at your meter each time to see which item is consuming the most electricity.

One note though, my Mother when she had a condo in Florida had ridiculously high electric bills compared to her neighbors and reported this to the condo association. They sent over a maintenance guy and he did exactly what I described above. When everything in her entire condo was disconnected the meter was still spinning around at a high speed. It was found later (after inspecting the incoming main to ensure nobody was tapping into it) that there was two smoke detectors that were 'hard wired' into the 110VAC line and one of them was defective, thus drawing massive amounts of current. Once it was disconnected and replaced then an electric bill with an average amount was seen.

So let me get this straight---------------------------You're saying the 2 smoke detectors were wired in to the main 120VAC coming from the condo main supply to your mother's place? In other words after the meter supplying her unit and ahead of the main consumer panel in her unit. So there was no breaker protection on those 2 detectors? If that's the case the electrician that installed them should have his ticket pulled and I would be checking more wiring in the condo.

You say "drawing massive amounts of current". How do you measure or calculate "massive"? Like Naam I am having a problem with this but without any inspection of the wiring and the detector in question I will NOT say "impossible" . I will only say very curious. I could understand a circuit or transformer in a unit that might cause an overload and draw more current but I'm not sure about this massive amounts thing. If it was this way unchecked for some time it was a fire hazard in itself if wired as you indicate.

Where did I say that the smoke detectors were wired ahead of the main ckt bkr panel? Hmmmmm...looking back at my post I do not see that...so show me please... I said that the smoke detectors were 'hard wired' into the 110 line, that is they didn't go through any type of switch or were plugged into an electrical outlet. But by no means were they on the source side of the main electrical panel where all of your ckt bkrs are located. I agree if that were the case that would be a violation of the electrical codes. The AC goes through the meter, into the breaker panel, and then on to the smoke detector.

I guess I was carried away with my adjective and description of the amount of current being pulled. But if you are talking about a few micro-amps then a few amps might be considered 'massive', right? I have never looked at a spec of a smoke detector but I would think that one under normal conditions will draw a few hundred mili-amps.

For sake of argument try figuring out this example: Lets make the voltage = 100 V for the ease of the math. Let's say a normal smoke detector's resistance is 1k Ohms. If that is the case this smoke detector under normal conditions would draw 100mA of current.... Now let's say a defective smoke detector has a resistance of 100 Ohms, then the current consumption of this defective smoke detector would be 10x (1A) that of the normal one.... And the lower resistance (100 Ohms) might allow the smoke detector not to operate and get a little warmer than normal but not low enough to draw excessive current to trip the ckt bkr..... What can't you see that? I agree without having the smoke detector 'in hand' it is difficult to actually imagine. And you have to remember the smoke detector was a constant load 24/7 unlike a TV where you only watch it a few hours each day, or a Refrigerator where it's highest current consumption is when the temp drops and the compressor kicks on.

[Naam]

A smoke detector can draw anywhere from 0 amps to infinitive amps (but it would never reach 'infinitive' before either something would burn up or the main circuit breaker would trip).

we are getting closer except for the "infinitive amps". the "massive amount of current" seems to be out of question. the housing of these little thingies are plastic. any "massive amount of current" would melt them down like butter. but then "massive" was not defined and the same goes for "double the electricity bill".

[NotNew2You]

Wow...reading this thread is like getting a free open university course in EE

I await further posts more advanced posts so I can figure out how the wiring in my Thai house works!

[dingdongrb]

A smoke detector can draw anywhere from 0 amps to infinitive amps (but it would never reach 'infinitive' before either something would burn up or the main circuit breaker would trip).

we are getting closer except for the "infinitive amps". the "massive amount of current" seems to be out of question. the housing of these little thingies are plastic. any "massive amount of current" would melt them down like butter. but then "massive" was not defined and the same goes for "double the electricity bill".

Closer? Hmmmmm I thought you were waiting for your 'experts' to arrive.....

Let me see if I recall, my mother living in a condo in Ft. Lauderdale Florida at the time, her neighbors electricity bill was running around $40 a month and when my mother first moved in and received her first bill it was near $100. Since she just moved from three bedroom house and never had an electric bill exceeding $100 she was concerned. (This was back in the early 90s.) So not knowing or remembering the 'EXACT" numbers that covers pretty much the 'double'.

I already explained my over exaggeration in using the word 'massive' above. Do try and keep up.

As far as 'infinitive' - yes if there is 0 Ohms resistance and an 'infinitive' voltage source applied then Ohms law would equate to an 'infinitive' current flowing. But in a realistic world there is no infinitive voltage source that I am aware of. I was speaking in idealistic terms since I did not know the exact resistance of the defective smoke detector. Tell me, what answer do you get when you divide 10 by 3 ???? (Please don't round it off and reply in your next post with the exact answer, and without using any mathematical shorthand.) And yes you can wait for your experts before replying with your answer if you like.

[think_too_mut]

A smoke detector can draw anywhere from 0 amps to infinitive amps (but it would never reach 'infinitive' before either something would burn up or the main circuit breaker would trip).

we are getting closer except for the "infinitive amps". the "massive amount of current" seems to be out of question. the housing of these little thingies are plastic. any "massive amount of current" would melt them down like butter. but then "massive" was not defined and the same goes for "double the electricity bill".

Closer? Hmmmmm I thought you were waiting for your 'experts' to arrive.....

Let me see if I recall, my mother living in a condo in Ft. Lauderdale Florida at the time, her neighbors electricity bill was running around $40 a month and when my mother first moved in and received her first bill it was near $100. Since she just moved from three bedroom house and never had an electric bill exceeding $100 she was concerned. (This was back in the early 90s.) So not knowing or remembering the 'EXACT" numbers that covers pretty much the 'double'.

I already explained my over exaggeration in using the word 'massive' above. Do try and keep up.

As far as 'infinitive' - yes if there is 0 Ohms resistance and an 'infinitive' voltage source applied then Ohms law would equate to an 'infinitive' current flowing. But in a realistic world there is no infinitive voltage source that I am aware of. I was speaking in idealistic terms since I did not know the exact resistance of the defective smoke detector. Tell me, what answer do you get when you divide 10 by 3 ???? (Please don't round it off and reply in your next post with the exact answer, and without using any mathematical shorthand.) And yes you can wait for your experts before replying with your answer if you like.

What is this chat with idle pensioners?

Was not the answer provided before?

http://www.pea.co.th/th/eng/downloadable/e...ricityrates.pdf

[JetsetBkk]

Your bill is exactly right if you used 1855 units: = 6960.34 baht

If your bill is normally 1000 baht, then you normally use 305 units.

So your smoke detector used 1550 units in one month.

This is 51.67 units per day (1550/30).

Since 1 unit = 1 kilowatt-hour, the detector was using 51.67/24 kilowatts

= 2.150 kilowatts

= 8.97 amps (2150 watts/240 volts=amps)

Please plug in (no pun intended) your actual normal monthly units figure to adjust the above calculation.

So, didn't anything get warm?

[Tywais]

As far as 'infinitive' - yes if there is 0 Ohms resistance and an 'infinitive' voltage source applied then Ohms law would equate to an 'infinitive' current flowing. But in a realistic world there is no infinitive voltage source that I am aware of.

I wasn't going to get involved in this but couldn't standby and see a fundamental error not being challenged.

It does not take an infinite voltage to create an infinite current when the resistance is 0. Any voltage would give you infinite current with a resistance of zero (n/0 = infinity) except in the case of V=0 which would be a meaningless expression. Depending on whether you are a scientist or a mathematician determines the definition of a divide by zero function. One considers the result as infinite the other considers it as undefined.

[Naam]

Tell me, what answer do you get when you divide 10 by 3 ???? (Please don't round it off and reply in your next post with the exact answer, and without using any mathematical shorthand.)

i don't know what a "mathematical shorthand" is although as a physicist i had to study maths. the answer is 3.33 "periodic" or "recurrent". as simple as that

[Naam]

Let me see if I recall, my mother living in a condo in Ft. Lauderdale Florida at the time, her neighbors electricity bill was running around $40 a month and when my mother first moved in and received her first bill it was near $100. Since she just moved from three bedroom house and never had an electric bill exceeding $100 she was concerned.

from my 15 years living in Florida i recall that the FPL rate was between 8.5 and 10 cents per kWh depending on consumption. deducting the basic charge for the electric connection (~$9.50) your mother's neighbour used 30 dollars = ~300kWh/month. moreover you claim your mother used to pay around $100 for a 3-bedroom house. and that in FLORIDA? gimme a break Dingdong

[longball53098]

In the OP's first post it was stated,

I just got my electric bill and I was shocked, 6,960 bht for 1 month for a 105 sqm condo. I've read different condos charge different amount for electricity. Can some one tell me where I should look on the bill for this? I see it has some thai writing and then says (Ft) and below that it says 62.85.

Then I see it says:

150 (1 - 150): 270.705

250 (151 - 400): 694.525

1455: 4,332.990

this is obviously a breakdown but I'm just not sure what it means. Any help would be appreciated.

Is the OP looking at the original invoice from the PEA? Or at an invoice delivered by the Condo offices? Some info is provided related to charges that would seem to indicate it is the PEA invoice. The reference that some condos charge different amounts is true as some condos add some service charges to the actual usage. We have a condo and pay 3 baht per unit over the PEA rates. I've heard some condos charge as much as 5 or 6 baht more.

If the OP can see the meter for the condo unit then I would suggest to start reading the meter on a regular basis and do a little math and figure out how much the condo unit is using on a daily/weekly basis so the next invoices will not be such surprises. When you read a meter you can learn what amounts an AC or hot pot or electric stove use and know where to cut back if necessary.

As for the Florida smoke detector story. In doing a little further research the about them. It would seem that 120VAC detectors use about 50 milliamps of current in a normal state. If something failed in a detector and it started to use more power to the point of several amps over a period of several days or weeks it would certainly increase the monthly invoice. Would the unit have a meltdown from the high current draw? One would hope so or trip a breaker at least. Which leads to the "hard wired" part.

CONSIDERATIONS FOR

INSTALLATION OF SMOKE ALARMS ON

RESIDENTIAL BRANCH CIRCUITS

October 2005

CPSC-ES-0504

Hardwired smoke alarms with battery back-up were not required until the 1996

edition of NFPA 72. In 1996, the requirement to have hardwired smoke alarms with battery

back- up in new construction was added to address non-operability during power outages.

5.0 SUMMARY

The National Fire Alarm Code (NFPA 72) (prior to 1993, the standard was named

Standard for the Installation, Maintenance and Use of Household Fire Warning Equipment-

NFPA 74), requirements for smoke alarms in newly constructed residential homes have changed

over time.

· Prior to 1989, single-station, battery-only-powered smoke alarms were typically required

to be installed in homes, new or existing.

· In 1989, newly constructed residential homes were required to have interconnected (hardwired)

smoke alarms on every level of the home and outside the sleeping areas. With

interconnected smoke alarms, all the smoke alarms will sound if any individual smoke

alarm detects smoke.

· In 1993, the standard required the installation of hardwired smoke alarms inside

bedrooms or sleeping areas. Smoke alarms were required in bedrooms to address the

concern associated with sound level losses when occupants sleep with the bedroom doors

closed.

· In 1996, the requirement to have hardwired smoke alarms with battery back-up in new

construction was added to address non-operability during power outages.

CONSIDERATIONS FOR

INSTALLATION OF SMOKE ALARMS ON

RESIDENTIAL BRANCH CIRCUITS

October 2005

CPSC-ES-0504

Arthur Lee, Electrical Engineer

Doug Lee, Electrical Engineer

Division of Electrical Engineering

Directorate for Engineering Sciences

The views expressed in this report are those of the CPSC staff and have not been

reviewed or approved by, and may not necessarily reflect the views of, the Commission.

[dingdongrb]

Let me see if I recall, my mother living in a condo in Ft. Lauderdale Florida at the time, her neighbors electricity bill was running around $40 a month and when my mother first moved in and received her first bill it was near $100. Since she just moved from three bedroom house and never had an electric bill exceeding $100 she was concerned.

from my 15 years living in Florida i recall that the FPL rate was between 8.5 and 10 cents per kWh depending on consumption. deducting the basic charge for the electric connection (~$9.50) your mother's neighbour used 30 dollars = ~300kWh/month. moreover you claim your mother used to pay around $100 for a 3-bedroom house. and that in FLORIDA? gimme a break Dingdong

The current rates for Liberty Power is .079 per KWh..... I mentioned this occurred back in the early 90s.

Just an FYI.... When I left Colorado 3 years ago, for a 2,000 sq/ft house my electricity bill was only running me around $70 a month... hard for you to believe as well?

[dingdongrb]

As far as 'infinitive' - yes if there is 0 Ohms resistance and an 'infinitive' voltage source applied then Ohms law would equate to an 'infinitive' current flowing. But in a realistic world there is no infinitive voltage source that I am aware of.

I wasn't going to get involved in this but couldn't standby and see a fundamental error not being challenged.

It does not take an infinite voltage to create an infinite current when the resistance is 0. Any voltage would give you infinite current with a resistance of zero (n/0 = infinity) except in the case of V=0 which would be a meaningless expression. Depending on whether you are a scientist or a mathematician determines the definition of a divide by zero function. One considers the result as infinite the other considers it as undefined.

I agree with you Tywais as I was only trying to provide an example for someone in layman's terms as I didn't realize I was dealing with a physicist. Then again I am sure you're aware there is no such thing as 0 resistance for an electrical conductor unless one is utilizing the practices of superconductivity, which I have yet to see a residential structure wired using superconductors.

I am surprised with Naam claiming to be a physicist he could not understand the concept of having infinite current in an electrical equation.