Thai Army Disobeys Pm's Orders

[sabaijai]

Thai army disobeys PM's orders -- so what's new?

Thu Sep 4, 2008 4:05pm IST

By Ed Cropley

BANGKOK (Reuters) - In July 2006, an 85-year-old Thai general dressed up in full military regalia to address a bunch of graduating young officers. It was no ordinary passing out parade.

The general was Prem Tinsulanonda, chief adviser to King Bhumibol Adulyadej, and his message was clear and aimed straight at elected Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawtra.

"Soldiers are like horses and governments are jockeys but not owners. You belong to the nation and His Majesty the King," Prem, also a former army chief and prime minister, said.

His comments were prophetic -- two months later, the army removed Thaksin in the 18th coup in 74 years of on-off democracy.

They also show how this week army chief Anupong Paochinda could refuse orders from Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to evict, by force if necessary, the thousands of protesters who have been occupying his official compound calling for his head.

Put simply, Thailand's army has never taken orders from the government.

"The military is not answerable to the executive," historian and Thaksin biographer Chris Baker said. "The elected government comes in every now and then, and they can ride on the horse for a bit but they don't actually own it or control it."

Within hours of Samak declaring emergency rule on Tuesday to get the army to remove the protesters from Government House, Anupong made it clear he would deploy only unarmed troops and only to prevent pro- and anti-government groups clashing.

"If we thought we could use police and soldiers to get them out of with a peaceful conclusion, we would do it. But we think that that would create problems," he said.

In its most glaring form, the military's disdain for elected government -- which, ironically, started with the overthrow of absolute monarchy in 1932 -- is shown in the frequency with which it has launched a coup: on average, once every four years.

But its control in a country where patronage is still the prevailing social force stretches way beyond merely the periodic seizure of political power.

As well as more than 300,000 men, it has a widespread network of informants, a legacy of anti-communist activities during the Cold War, and is a major conduit for humanitarian projects evolving from the revered royal family.

The army owns TV and radio stations, was able to corner up to 20 percent of the national budget, and has as many as 1,000 generals on its staff, even though most of them are more familiar with golf, rather than rifle, ranges.

Besides minor operations in Vietnam, and the occasional border skirmish with Myanmar, it has fought only one proper war -- a three month affair against neighbouring Laos in 1987-88. Japanese occupation in the Second World War was unopposed.

Attempts to cut the armed forces down to size have invariably gone nowhere.

Only after 1992, when troops opened fire on huge democracy demonstrations, killing dozens, was its public standing so low the government could even contemplate military reform.

The financial crisis of 1997 led to further squeezing of the military share of the budget, which dropped to as little as six percent under Thaksin, whose career started with the police -- the army's bitter internal rivals.

After the putsch against Thaksin, the army-appointed government increased defence spending by 66 percent to $4.5 billion for 2007-08, leading many to question its motives in ousting the prime minister on the pretext of "rampant corruption".

Thaksin even claimed the army tried to assassinate him, sacking General Pallop Pinmanee as deputy director of the shadowy Internal Security Operations Command after a junior officer was found near his home in a car packed with explosives.

Pallop contemptuously dismissed any plot, saying: "If I had wanted to kill him, the prime minister would not have escaped."

[blaze]

Thanks for posting that in its entirety Sabaijai.

[mackayae]

Hey, what about the Victory Monument. They won that one too.

[adjan jb]

Thanks for posting that in its entirety Sabaijai.

Thanks for quoting that in its entirety Blaze

[blaze]

Thanks for posting that in its entirety Sabaijai.

Thanks for quoting that in its entirety Blaze

[Spee]

Thai army disobeys PM's orders -- so what's new?

Thu Sep 4, 2008 4:05pm IST

By Ed Cropley

BANGKOK (Reuters) -

Put simply, Thailand's army has never taken orders from the government.

Put simply, this is the biggest challenge to a stable democracy in Thailand.

PPP? PAD? Protests? Fuggedaboutit.

Cheers to al-Reuters for going off course and actually telling something like it is.

[PeaceBlondie]

Perhaps just as ironic - isn't Samak the Minister of Defence also? Do they only take orders from you-know-whom if they wish?

[Bangyai]

A very good and informative article on who really runs the country. Too bad the latest ' sideshow ' is grabbing all the attention as usual.

[Bryan in Isaan]

Thai army disobeys PM's orders -- so what's new?

Thu Sep 4, 2008 4:05pm IST

By Ed Cropley

BANGKOK (Reuters) - In July 2006, an 85-year-old Thai general dressed up in full military regalia to address a bunch of graduating young officers. It was no ordinary passing out parade.

The general was Prem Tinsulanonda, chief adviser to King Bhumibol Adulyadej, and his message was clear and aimed straight at elected Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawtra.

"Soldiers are like horses and governments are jockeys but not owners. You belong to the nation and His Majesty the King," Prem, also a former army chief and prime minister, said.

His comments were prophetic -- two months later, the army removed Thaksin in the 18th coup in 74 years of on-off democracy.

......

Many have said that it was Prem who was primarily responsible for the coup in 2006, not Sondhi or some lower level generals. He might be the one calling the shots today. In western countries we are used to the president or head of secular government being commander in chief, but it is not so here.

[Tony Clifton]

I see the PAd crowd has more than doubled from what it was this afternoon.

Govt. and police have absolutely no control over that small area.

University students will even make it to the stage tomorrow with their famous mock Chinese opera and leave without a problem, like all the other celebrities and ordinary citizens attending.

No crowd control, no real police force (too corrupt and divided), no real government (united in corruption).

Still nothing but a farcical façade.

They just won`t let go because the faithful zombies still have plenty of work to do to save the Little Emperor`s ass.

Thai army disobeys PM/Minister of Defense.

Edited September 5, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[blaze]

Thai army disobeys PM/Minister of Defense.

I think you're on to something- but in connection with the title of the thread and the article which was posted- could you elaborate a bit?

Edited September 5, 2008 by blaze

[soundman]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

<deleted> - For starters these clowns have no clue about managing the economy let alone international relations, human rites issues etc. Who in their right mind would give an incompetant something with which to hurt himself or others?

It is almost akin to handing a loaded gun to a deranged sociopath.

Best left as General Prem put it a few years ago.

[Moonrakers]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

<deleted> - For starters these clowns have no clue about managing the economy let alone international relations, human rites issues etc. Who in their right mind would give an incompetant something with which to hurt himself or others?

It is almost akin to handing a loaded gun to a deranged sociopath.

Best left as General Prem put it a few years ago.

Nice one.

You outlined perfectly the FACT that Samak/PPP DO NOT represent the majority of the electorate.

If only it would sink into the grey matter of some posters before they start on their "Majority elected government rants"

[blaze]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

<deleted> - For starters these clowns have no clue about managing the economy let alone international relations, human rites issues etc. Who in their right mind would give an incompetant something with which to hurt himself or others?

It is almost akin to handing a loaded gun to a deranged sociopath.

Best left as General Prem put it a few years ago.

Bearing in mind of course, that a PM of a party you support, should that party form the government, can not depend on the army to defend YOUR interests. But if that's ok with you...

[robee]

keeps getting better and better

[Moonrakers]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

<deleted> - For starters these clowns have no clue about managing the economy let alone international relations, human rites issues etc. Who in their right mind would give an incompetant something with which to hurt himself or others?

It is almost akin to handing a loaded gun to a deranged sociopath.

Best left as General Prem put it a few years ago.

Bearing in mind of course, that a PM of a party you support, should that party form the government, can not depend on the army to defend YOUR interests. But if that's ok with you...

The Thais should be able to rely on the PM/Government to defend their interests, and not have to depend on the army. (Except in instances such as war ect.)

[robee]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

<deleted> - For starters these clowns have no clue about managing the economy let alone international relations, human rites issues etc. Who in their right mind would give an incompetant something with which to hurt himself or others?

It is almost akin to handing a loaded gun to a deranged sociopath.

Best left as General Prem put it a few years ago.

Bearing in mind of course, that a PM of a party you support, should that party form the government, can not depend on the army to defend YOUR interests. But if that's ok with you...

Interesting perspctives. the army appears to have a different stake in this

[soundman]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

<deleted> - For starters these clowns have no clue about managing the economy let alone international relations, human rites issues etc. Who in their right mind would give an incompetant something with which to hurt himself or others?

It is almost akin to handing a loaded gun to a deranged sociopath.

Best left as General Prem put it a few years ago.

Bearing in mind of course, that a PM of a party you support, should that party form the government, can not depend on the army to defend YOUR interests. But if that's ok with you...

Valid point & in this particular country its fine with me - however I am sure that the armed forces would be directed appropriately if issues of national security came up, better to not let the (currently very dodgy) politicians have absolute power over the armed forces as they will use them as muscle any time they feel their positions are jeopordised rather than handing the decision back to the people.

The way Taksin tried to set it up with one person being able to call a "state of Emergency with dictatorial powers" and then have the armed forces as his own attack dog is totally un-acceptable.

[Pierrot]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

You may have to increase a bit the figures, but I believe the USA are doing just fine.

[robee]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

<deleted> - For starters these clowns have no clue about managing the economy let alone international relations, human rites issues etc. Who in their right mind would give an incompetant something with which to hurt himself or others?

It is almost akin to handing a loaded gun to a deranged sociopath.

Best left as General Prem put it a few years ago.

Bearing in mind of course, that a PM of a party you support, should that party form the government, can not depend on the army to defend YOUR interests. But if that's ok with you...

Interesting perspctives. the army appears to have a different stake in this

[LaoPo]

I see the PAd crowd has more than doubled from what it was this afternoon.

Govt. and police have absolutely no control over that small area.

University students will even make it to the stage tomorrow with their famous mock Chinese opera and leave without a problem, like all the other celebrities and ordinary citizens attending.

No crowd control, no real police force (too corrupt and divided), no real government (united in corruption).

Still nothing but a farcical façade.

They just won`t let go because the faithful zombies still have plenty of work to do to save the Little Emperor`s ass.

Thai army disobeys PM/Minister of Defense.

You amaze me over and over Tony.

Don't you, and all the other pro-Pad posters, see that the Army has it's own agenda and don't give <deleted> about a PM/Minister of Defense, the Government, the students, Samak, Sondhi, (they need him now....a little...to stir it up...) and the rest ?

Don't you see that there is a lot more behind the scenes ?

I've said it so many times:

Greed, Power, Money, Army & the Elite and WE..the Army control the country and let some puppets dance to the music WE like. If there's a puppet (T) who dances too fast and is more corrupt than we are...sorry....than we have to step in and remove him, and that other guy...what's his name ?

Oh, yes, Samak...we'll remove him too, in time.

And, Sondhi ? Well, we might need him for a while and than send him off too.

Because WE, the Army, need our privileges, money, houses, boats, power, and more money to send our kids abroad to study and keep our circles closed. The rest of the people are very good people.....

to grow rice, vegetables and fruit.

Poor Thailand.

PS: Some 30 years ago I met a VERY high Military man in full uniform full of decorations and stars with his gun on his hip, on a flight to Phuket. He was so important that everyone on board kissed their own shoes, waying the same time....

He invited me to stay at the -family-hotel right on Patong beach, 'owned' by his wife, a lovely Lady, where I staid a few more times.

She said: "my husband hap vely low salaly", so I started this hotel.......

yeah, right.

That's what Thailand and it's politics is ALL about. The Generals...and it depends what families they're from who control and pull the strings.

LaoPo

[robee]

Thai army disobeys PM's orders -- so what's new?

Thu Sep 4, 2008 4:05pm IST

By Ed Cropley

BANGKOK (Reuters) - In July 2006, an 85-year-old Thai general dressed up in full military regalia to address a bunch of graduating young officers. It was no ordinary passing out parade.

The general was Prem Tinsulanonda, chief adviser to King Bhumibol Adulyadej, and his message was clear and aimed straight at elected Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawtra.

"Soldiers are like horses and governments are jockeys but not owners. You belong to the nation and His Majesty the King," Prem, also a former army chief and prime minister, said.

His comments were prophetic -- two months later, the army removed Thaksin in the 18th coup in 74 years of on-off democracy.

......

What's next from prem

Many have said that it was Prem who was primarily responsible for the coup in 2006, not Sondhi or some lower level generals. He might be the one calling the shots today. In western countries we are used to the president or head of secular government being commander in chief, but it is not so here.

[Bangyai]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

<deleted> - For starters these clowns have no clue about managing the economy let alone international relations, human rites issues etc. Who in their right mind would give an incompetant something with which to hurt himself or others?

It is almost akin to handing a loaded gun to a deranged sociopath.

Best left as General Prem put it a few years ago.

Thats news......so they've given the vote to babies and kids now have they........how very odd ? No confidence in the adults I guess.

[Heng]

Oh it's not as dire as all that. This isn't the PLA (China), where they actually run their own business interests. Local big business has 'owned' the army for generations. Who do you think has been putting these generals through school and pushing them through the ranks (it's not like they have any opportunity to advance through military campaigns)?

[soundman]

No confidence in the adults I guess.

Well since you bring it up.......

There is often debate on this board on whether the "eligible" voters within Thailand should be qualified to vote.

What do you think?

[Moonrakers]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

<deleted> - For starters these clowns have no clue about managing the economy let alone international relations, human rites issues etc. Who in their right mind would give an incompetant something with which to hurt himself or others?

It is almost akin to handing a loaded gun to a deranged sociopath.

Best left as General Prem put it a few years ago.

Thats news......so they've given the vote to babies and kids now have they........how very odd ? No confidence in the adults I guess.

Doh!

You have picked up on the huge flaw in soundman's point that I missed.

I have been trying to find the population of Thailand that is eligible to vote but can't find it (There is a direct negative correlation between by googling skills and alcohol consumption). Could somebody else please dig that bit of information out? (I mean the electorate, not my alcohol consumption.)

[Thai at Heart]

Oh it's not as dire as all that. This isn't the PLA (China), where they actually run their own business interests. Local big business has 'owned' the army for generations. Who do you think has been putting these generals through school and pushing them through the ranks (it's not like they have any opportunity to advance through military campaigns)?

They do also protect local businesses. Don't forget that Thaksin was a policeman. His shutdown of bars at 2am hurt a lot of businesses that believed they were beyond being touched.

[soundman]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

<deleted> - For starters these clowns have no clue about managing the economy let alone international relations, human rites issues etc. Who in their right mind would give an incompetant something with which to hurt himself or others?

It is almost akin to handing a loaded gun to a deranged sociopath.

Best left as General Prem put it a few years ago.

Thats news......so they've given the vote to babies and kids now have they........how very odd ? No confidence in the adults I guess.

Doh!

You have picked up on the huge flaw in soundman's point that I missed.

I have been trying to find the population of Thailand that is legible to vote but can't find it (There is a direct negative correlation between by googling skills and alcohol consumption). Could somebody else please dig that bit of information out? (I mean the electorate, not my alcohol consumption.)

THBOMK around 45,000,000 people in Thailand are elegible to vote.

[Loaded]

Didn't the military junta introduce a law just before they handed power back to the voting public that transferred authority to name the joint military chief from the Prime Minister to the Privvy Council and its leader Prem? Ping pong ping pong and so the game plays on.

[blaze]

Could you really imagine what a predicament the country would be in if the military blindly followed the orders of some of the lunatics in charge of this place just because 15,000,000 out of 65,000,000 voted for them?

<deleted> - For starters these clowns have no clue about managing the economy let alone international relations, human rites issues etc. Who in their right mind would give an incompetant something with which to hurt himself or others?

It is almost akin to handing a loaded gun to a deranged sociopath.

Best left as General Prem put it a few years ago.

Bearing in mind of course, that a PM of a party you support, should that party form the government, can not depend on the army to defend YOUR interests. But if that's ok with you...

Valid point & in this particular country its fine with me - however I am sure that the armed forces would be directed appropriately if issues of national security came up, better to not let the (currently very dodgy) politicians have absolute power over the armed forces as they will use them as muscle any time they feel their positions are jeopordised rather than handing the decision back to the people.

The way Taksin tried to set it up with one person being able to call a "state of Emergency with dictatorial powers" and then have the armed forces as his own attack dog is totally un-acceptable.

So you have faith in the army- would it be fair to say that the army would never mount a coup against a government that you supported- and that the army would never use deadly force to break up protests by those who opposed the coup and the gov't it installed?