Andorra Vs. England

[MSingh]

Overhyped premier league? You mean the one that had 4 English teams in the final four was it of the Champions League - including your team stevie?

overhyped in relation to the performance of the england national team james, yeah, absolutely. richest league in the world, highest paid players in the world, best marketed league in the world, granted. so how come england are still crap while other much smaller footballing nations flourish in competitive international football?

Quite simply because to have the best league in the world we need the best players...and unfotunatley most of them are not English.

So we can't have our cake and eat it can we?

Other countries (Germany for instance) do not have anywhere near the amount of Foreigners in the Bundersleague (or whatever its called) therefore home grown talent shines through....ditto for Cameroon, Brazil, Japan, Argentina...et al.

How many English Internationals ply their trade abroad? Yet you look at the teamsheets of other countries and most of their top players are playing in England

So until there is a limit on the amount of foreigners any team can play with England will never be as good as we once were...IMHO that is

Spot on but it will never happen due to EU Laws & the amount of $$ in the Premiership. I said it about 2 years ago & was proved right during the Qualifying for the Euro 2008, get used to not qualifying for Tournaments Gents because we won't be on a regular basis, & it has already started..

[dave111223]

I understand what you guys are saying about the EPL being all foreigners etc.. but if you look at the England team, how many Champions league finalists do we have?

Joe Cole

Ashley Cole

John Terry

Rio Ferdinand

Wes Brown

Frank Lampard

Wayne Rooney

Michael Carrick

8 players! What over country has 8 champions league finalists in their team?

Plus if you factor in the other players from the big 4, you've got Gerrard and Walcott. So we're talking almost any entire team made up of players from the big 4 (which, as it was clear last season in the champions league, make up the best teams in the world).

[StevieH]

Quite simply because to have the best league in the world we need the best players...and unfotunatley most of them are not English.

So we can't have our cake and eat it can we?

Other countries (Germany for instance) do not have anywhere near the amount of Foreigners in the Bundersleague (or whatever its called) therefore home grown talent shines through....ditto for Cameroon, Brazil, Japan, Argentina...et al.

How many English Internationals ply their trade abroad? Yet you look at the teamsheets of other countries and most of their top players are playing in England

So until there is a limit on the amount of foreigners any team can play with England will never be as good as we once were...IMHO that is

i'd flip that around and say that the reason so many other nations are better than england is precisely because their players go and play in leagues around the world. they learn different styles of football for different types of match, something that english players are incapable of doing. english footballers play at 100mph all the time, and until they learn to slow the game down and keep possession, they will never win another tournament.

[StevieH]

I understand what you guys are saying about the EPL being all foreigners etc.. but if you look at the England team, how many Champions league finalists do we have?

Joe Cole

Ashley Cole

John Terry

Rio Ferdinand

Wes Brown

Frank Lampard

Wayne Rooney

Michael Carrick

8 players! What over country has 8 champions league finalists in their team?

Plus if you factor in the other players from the big 4, you've got Gerrard and Walcott. So we're talking almost any entire team made up of players from the big 4 (which, as it was clear last season in the champions league, make up the best teams in the world).

however i'd argue that, maybe gerrard aside, the most important players in that 'big four' of teams are not english. chelsea it's cech, carvalho and drogba, manyoo it's ronaldo, vidic, evra (maybe a case for ferdinand) and arsenal don't have any english players apart from tiny theo. consider english clubs' impact on the champions league before they began signing really top class foreign players.

[dave111223]

however i'd argue that, maybe gerrard aside, the most important players in that 'big four' of teams are not english. chelsea it's cech, carvalho and drogba, manyoo it's ronaldo, vidic, evra (maybe a case for ferdinand) and arsenal don't have any english players apart from tiny theo. consider english clubs' impact on the champions league before they began signing really top class foreign players.

I'd say:

Terry

Lampard

Ferdinand

Rooney

are all "key players" that United and Chelsea would have been sh*tting themselves if they'd had to go the Champions league final without those players.

Even then if you compare that to any other country, how many players did Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain have in the champions league final? So to say that England don't have quality players is crazy.

Surely England had the most players in the Champions League final, correct me if i'm wrong?

[bkkjames]

however i'd argue that, maybe gerrard aside, the most important players in that 'big four' of teams are not english. chelsea it's cech, carvalho and drogba, manyoo it's ronaldo, vidic, evra (maybe a case for ferdinand) and arsenal don't have any english players apart from tiny theo. consider english clubs' impact on the champions league before they began signing really top class foreign players.

I'd say:

Terry

Lampard

Ferdinand

Rooney

are all "key players" that United and Chelsea would have been sh*tting themselves if they'd had to go the Champions league final without those players.

Even then if you compare that to any other country, how many players did Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain have in the champions league final? So to say that England don't have quality players is crazy.

Surely England had the most players in the Champions League final, correct me if i'm wrong?

I dont have the Chelsea squad memorised but let me take a stab at it.

Portugal - nani, ronaldo, carvahlo

Argentina - tevez

Brazil - anderson

France - evra, essien

Spain - (LIVERPOOL but they were not in the final so they dont count)

Germany -ballack

The African guys - drogba...

Russian / Chech, etc : Chech, vidic..

UK - terry cole x 2, scholes, ferdinand, oshea, rooney, lamps, carrick,hargreaves, fletcher

Now I am sure I have missed whole bunch (mikel, kalou) but a clear trend from what i have put down shows that the majority of players in the final were from the UK,

[StevieH]

I'd say:

Terry

Lampard

Ferdinand

Rooney

are all "key players" that United and Chelsea would have been sh*tting themselves if they'd had to go the Champions league final without those players.

Even then if you compare that to any other country, how many players did Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain have in the champions league final? So to say that England don't have quality players is crazy.

Surely England had the most players in the Champions League final, correct me if i'm wrong?

would imagine that the 2003 final between milan and juve probably had more italians on show.

i don't think terry and lampard are particularly key to chelsea, they're important yeah, but not real gambreakers. they can replace lampard with deco, ballack, cole or essien and carvalho is colt seavers to terry's clint eastwood.

i just think that english players are generally pretty technically and tactically inept compared to their peers from other countries. they could improve that by going and playing in italy or spain, but they never will now because the money is all in england.

[StevieH]

I dont have the Chelsea squad memorised but let me take a stab at it.

Portugal - nani, ronaldo, carvahlo

Argentina - tevez

Brazil - anderson

France - evra, essien

Spain - (LIVERPOOL but they were not in the final so they dont count)

Germany -ballack

The African guys - drogba...

Russian / Chech, etc : Chech, vidic..

UK - terry cole x 2, scholes, ferdinand, oshea, rooney, lamps, carrick,hargreaves, fletcher

Now I am sure I have missed whole bunch (mikel, kalou) but a clear trend from what i have put down shows that the majority of players in the final were from the UK,

come on james, this is about english football so you're not having o'shea and fletcher. and essien's not french, he's ghanaian.

[bkkjames]

I'd say:

Terry

Lampard

Ferdinand

Rooney

are all "key players" that United and Chelsea would have been sh*tting themselves if they'd had to go the Champions league final without those players.

Even then if you compare that to any other country, how many players did Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain have in the champions league final? So to say that England don't have quality players is crazy.

Surely England had the most players in the Champions League final, correct me if i'm wrong?

would imagine that the 2003 final between milan and juve probably had more italians on show.

i don't think terry and lampard are particularly key to chelsea, they're important yeah, but not real gambreakers. they can replace lampard with deco, ballack, cole or essien and carvalho is colt seavers to terry's clint eastwood.

i just think that english players are generally pretty technically and tactically inept compared to their peers from other countries. they could improve that by going and playing in italy or spain, but they never will now because the money is all in england.

Excuse me Stevie but werent Terry and Lamps just voted best at their position in the game by other players? Last time i checked it wasnt carvahlo or deco or ballack or essien.

[bkkjames]

I dont have the Chelsea squad memorised but let me take a stab at it.

Portugal - nani, ronaldo, carvahlo

Argentina - tevez

Brazil - anderson

France - evra, essien

Spain - (LIVERPOOL but they were not in the final so they dont count)

Germany -ballack

The African guys - drogba...

Russian / Chech, etc : Chech, vidic..

UK - terry cole x 2, scholes, ferdinand, oshea, rooney, lamps, carrick,hargreaves, fletcher

Now I am sure I have missed whole bunch (mikel, kalou) but a clear trend from what i have put down shows that the majority of players in the final were from the UK,

come on james, this is about english football so you're not having o'shea and fletcher. and essien's not french, he's ghanaian.

ok no flech or oshea and i will leave out giggsy, essien speaks french though? and he looks like he belongs on arsenal.

[StevieH]

ok no flech or oshea and i will leave out giggsy, essien speaks french though? and he looks like he belongs on arsenal.

speaks it aye as he played in france for lyon. and won't be playing for the next six months. heh.

point i'm trying to make really is that club football isn't a brilliant bellwether for international football. international tournament football requires a completely different style of football that english players aren't taught at a young age, aren't coached at premier league level and don't play on a saturday. hence england having a bunch of clearly talented players but no chance in hel_l of winning major tournaments.

[bkkjames]

ok no flech or oshea and i will leave out giggsy, essien speaks french though? and he looks like he belongs on arsenal.

speaks it aye as he played in france for lyon. and won't be playing for the next six months. heh.

point i'm trying to make really is that club football isn't a brilliant bellwether for international football. international tournament football requires a completely different style of football that english players aren't taught at a young age, aren't coached at premier league level and don't play on a saturday. hence england having a bunch of clearly talented players but no chance in hel_l of winning major tournaments.

Stevie, you need to quick hanging out in the football forum all day and come over to the general topics where it has been learned the David and Victoria plan to become Bhuddists.

As for your other comment, I only watch sunday games because in case you noticed, thats when the good teams play, except of course like this coming saturday when we have to play you guys and are thus forced to play on that day.

[pomchorpbia]

No way would I have stayed up till 4am to watch England play......those days are long gone, and I fear never to return.

I did not expect much more than 2-0 against a bunch of part timers and very lower league pros.

A Disappointment .........that's how I sum Englland up......it's a shame ..we just don't have the quality anymore.

Must be even worse if you are a Scotland fan though.....I rememeber when the team was more or less made up of either Celtic or Rangers players with the odd super star playing in England thrown in (Law, Dalgliesh etc), but now it's made up of manylower league English based players....how can their fans really expect much either ??

It's all about MONEY , once more, too many foreign players in both the SPL and the EPL, it is definatley now the case that if you want to watch good football, go to a club game not an International.

Rant mode off

thats such a shit attitude to have. Its not just about searching for good football, if you want that, then yes, be a glory supporter. Its different with national teams, its about pride and supporting your own country. Thats the problem with too many England fans, always negative, always moaning.... ok, yeh, maybe that shows passion....but there's plenty of countries in the world that have never won any honours... you don't see them continually moaning like England fans (England fans are even moaning when we've won)....no, they continue supporting with pride and passion in their homeland...think of teams like Russia or many African nations that have never won anything but still continue to support their counrty. To say you have given up watching and supporting England because they never win is the wrong way to look at things.

Your second post and you say I have a shit attitude, don't think you are gonna be around these parts to much longer pal

As you are no doubt still wet behind the ears in matters of football, let me clarify my post.

These days club football is far more important than international football, sice 1996 when England reached the semi-finals of the European Championships (albeit on home soil) the English game has been raidly going downhill...I actually went to see Sven's first game in charge as it happens at Villa Park against Spain)...the reason is that we just don't produce enough home grown talent, and the ones that we DO produce just don't seem to have the passion that was abundant in the 90's.....remember Italy ...Gazza's passion.

It's just not there anymore, with the worload these guys have I can understand how difficult it is. 20 years ago if England were playing everything stopped...now days many football fans would rarther be somewhere else than watching England play, and I certainly would stay up till 4am to watch them, but I would if it was my club team...who incidently are not an EPL club...anymore.....unfortunatley.

You go on to talk about how lucky we are ad that teams from Africa and Uzbekistan or wherever won't get the chance to win anything...don't you realise that WE invented the bluddy game and have the BIGGEST and MOST watched league in the world, so don't you think we SHOULD be pretty good at it?

I am not complaning about the result, I did not watch the game because I am not as interested n how England do anymore, I don't want to get myself worked up about something I have no influence over, sure I will swithch on the Computer and look for the result...will be the fist thing I do the morning after they have played...but EVERY TIME I read what is written in the press it's disappointing, we have either won badly or lost.

If the current England were a club side they would be horrifically disappointing underachievers for sure !! But what value would they collectively be woth ...200m maybe? and they can only beat a group of part timers 2-0 !!

Apologies for using the word shit...that was a bit strong! However, I think there are plenty of hypocrites in this forum (not particularly you)...many of which will have to eat their words after last nights performance.

p.s. 2nd post? I didn't realise being a thaivisa geek was a pre-requisite for having football knowledge.

[StevieH]

Stevie, you need to quick hanging out in the football forum all day and come over to the general topics where it has been learned the David and Victoria plan to become Bhuddists.

where are these general topics?