Samak Found Guilty By Court, Must Resign

[Los78]

Atleast now we know for sure Thailand is a Banana Republic. Making the prime-minister resign because of a cooking show, laughable. A nice sum has changed hands for sure to get to this ruling. Laughable country and it won't change anything. New elections, same outcome, TRT/PPP will win, thats called democracy PAD/Sondhi.

MBL

Justice has been served. When you play in the big room, the stakes get bigger. He broke the law and now he is paying the price. He also lied about receiving money. (regardless of the amount). Lying in court is not cool, esspecially for a Prime Minister, who is supposed to set an example for the country.

Yes, and its time to look at making some arrest of some so called PAD leaders. Sondhi and KFC man, Colonel Sanders have had arrest warrants out now for a couple weeks, but strange that they are some how untouchable.... hmmm makes me wonder.....

[Crushdepth]

Congratulations Thailand, you are now the world's village idiot.

Nah...that title still belongs to George Bush.

A nice sum has changed hands for sure to get to this ruling.

Actually its the law, believe it or not. HM has also made some fairly pointed remarks about judicial responsibilities and the future of the country at a couple of recent audiences, and I think they took it pretty seriously. It's also worth remembering that Thaksin's lawyer just got busted trying the 'snack box full of cash' approach - and it was the judiciary that busted him!

Justice is coming to Thailand, but its going to take the politicians a while to figure out that the operating environment has changed. Expect a few burned fingers :-)

[kurtgruen]

Yes, and its time to look at making some arrest of some so called PAD leaders. Sondhi and KFC man, Colonel Sanders have had arrest warrants out now for a couple weeks, but strange that they are some how untouchable.... hmmm makes me wonder.....

They tried, they got as far as Gate 5 once and where pushed back later. Nobody wants senseless violence. Sondhi and his people will have to face the judges in time, they are not going anywhere. Why should the police risk extreme violence and bloodshed, when all they have to do is wait??? Unless they get pardoned by somebody very wise, there will be some legal consequences for their actions.

There are people like me, who think that Sondhi and the PAD are doing a good thing, trying to get rid of the corrupt PPP coalition and Samak. Just because I believe that they are doing a good thing, doesn't mean that I believe that they are immune to the laws of this country. BUT...I do not want to see any more bloodshed.

I'm pretty sure that Sondhi isn't going to run of to England. He doesn't strike me as coward or somebody who will spend the rest of their live running from the law.

So just hold your horses and see how it all turns out ;-)

[MayBeLater]

Atleast now we know for sure Thailand is a Banana Republic. Making the prime-minister resign because of a cooking show, laughable. A nice sum has changed hands for sure to get to this ruling. Laughable country and it won't change anything. New elections, same outcome, TRT/PPP will win, thats called democracy PAD/Sondhi.

MBL

This isn't about a backroom sum, but a front room sum.

He took money from a MEDIA COMPANY for work.

makes no difference if it was cooking or making Oregami birds from paper,

or a show on civics and social responsabillity.

Media companies should not being paying Prime Ministers of any country period.

Lets see if CBS paid GWB to do a brush clearing show

It is reasonable to assume CBS wants more than BRUSH CLEANED,

more like FCC censorship fine rollbacks etc.

You want the BBC paying Gordon Brown a stipend for anything?

Its not about this cooking show, no one cares about it. Samak had to go and they found an excuse. Same as what happened with Thaksin. Thaksin didn't do anything new, only on a much bigger scale. If the Democrats can only offer 200 Baht a vote and Thaksin can pay 500 Baht its clear who will win, the Democrats shouldn't whine. Anyways there are two possible outcomes, prolonged military rule (after the TRT/PPP/... wins the next elections and the military steps in again after new protests), or TRT/PPP/... can finally find a way to silence the PAD/Sondhi mob. The first will happen because the powers that matter ( ) will never voluntarily let loose of power. Its an interesting power struggle with few global precedents.

[kurtgruen]

Bedtime for me. Have a good night everybody. Look forward to your posts tomorrow.

Hope all stays peaceful and nobody gets hurt out there.

Glad there still is justice in this world

After everything I have said and heard today, I still believe that Thailand is one of the best countries in the world to make a home and one of the safest countries to go for a holiday. A country where old people and overweight people still get treated with respect, where most children still have respect for their elders and where children get treated well by their loving parents.

Cheers

[animatic]

Congratulations Thailand, you are now the world's village idiot.

Nah...that title still belongs to George Bush.

A nice sum has changed hands for sure to get to this ruling.

Actually its the law, believe it or not. HM has also made some fairly pointed remarks about judicial responsibilities and the future of the country at a couple of recent audiences, and I think they took it pretty seriously. It's also worth remembering that Thaksin's lawyer just got busted trying the 'snack box full of cash' approach - and it was the judiciary that busted him!

Justice is coming to Thailand, but its going to take the politicians a while to figure out that the operating environment has changed. Expect a few burned fingers :-)

Yes HM changed the playing field and for the better.

ALL the people would see the judges as defying the highest wishes,

if they did business as usual still.

What was the status quo was not acceptable,

and bigger and bigger problems were coming up.

Push came to shove and is STILL shoving.

I don't buy the this is the way it always is here argument.

Things CAN get better, it there is a will to do it.

At the present there seems to be one.

Edited September 9, 2008 by animatic

[cheshiremusicman]

Convicted Samak disqualified

Samak Sundaravej must resign

BANGKOK: -- The Constitution Court Tuesday convicted Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej of having violated the charter by hosting commercial TV shows while in office.

The court voted unanimously to give a guilty verdict against Samak and disqualified him as the prime minister.

The court reasoned that the Constitution was aimed to prevent conflicts of interest on part of Cabinet members so Samak had violated in the intention of the charter although he host the programmes on part-time basis.

-- The Nation 2008-09-09

SAMAK FOUND GUILTY

4.30 pm: Urgent: The court finds Samak guilty.

Six judges considered Samak to be the "employee" while three others considered Samak a business partner of the studio, a constitutional offence in both cases.

The court said evidence presented by Samak that he was only given transport fees for hosting the show "contradicted" payment evidence by the studio, Face Media.

The court went strong on the principles laid down by the Constitution against conflicts of interests. The judges pointed out that using definitions of "employ", "employer" and "employee" from different laws are not enough to tell whether the will of the Constitution has been violated.

Key developments:

4 pm: The judges have taken turn in reading the plaintiffs' and defence arguments. So far it sounds a simple legal battle. Samak's accusers said he was "employed" by a studio to host the TV cooking show, whereas Samak's defence insisted he was urged to help with the programme and by no means was its "employee". The court's verdict, surely , will have to touch upon definitions of "employ" , "employer" and "employee" and interpret payments made to Samak.

3.40 pm: The Constitution Court has begun reading the verdict now. A long period of time is expected to be spent on reading the case's backgrounds. Cameramen will be given five minutes and will be then asked to leave the courtroom, which is totally packed.

Samak is represented in the courtroom by his lawyer Thana Benjathikul.

3.15 pm: Where is Samak? Nobody knows. He was said to have boarded his flight back from Udon Thani after the mobile Cabinet meeting but as of now no-one can confirm where he has landed. Samak's close aides who answered reporters' phone calls would only say the prime minister is now in Bangkok. However, he is not expected to appear at the Constitution Court.

2.30 pm: It has been announced that the court is postponing reading the verdict to 3.30 pm.

2.15 pm: Some food for thought in the meantime: If Samak decides to bite the bullet and defy the Constitution Court, it doesn't mean he can get away with it just like that. Firstly, a caretaker prime minister and caretaker Cabinet will find it totally difficult to go on. Seconly, Samak has another court case coming _ the appeal against a defamation conviction. If the Appeals Court upholds the lower court, he will be all but doomed because a chance to overturn it at the Supreme Court is very low.

We have been reminded that there is also a fourth scenario _ Samak being re-elected by Parliament because the charter seemingly doesn't prevent that if he loses today's case. Again, he will face the Appeals Court timebomb in the defamation case nonetheless.

2 pm: The court seems to be delaying its verdict. We are not sure by how long.

1.50 pm: One weird theory has emerged. What if Samak continues serving as a caretaker prime minister nonchalantly? Some legal experts _ who are pro-PPP of course _ point out that the 30-day timeframe to elect a prime minister is applied for the first parliamentary convention (after an election) only.

So, basically there are three scenarios at the moment in the event of a guitly verdict _ Samak serving as caretaker PM, Chat Thai leader Banharn Silapa-archa replacing him, and Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva performing a political daylight robbery by stealing enough parliamentary support for his rise to premiership.

12.55 pm: Samak departs the Udon Thani Airport after telling his mobile Cabinet not to worry about him. Things are tense in Bangkok, with virtually everyone awaiting the court verdict and speculating what will happen next.

10.15 am : Chart Thai deputy leader Somsak Prissanananthakul says Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa might emerge as the next prime minister if incumbent Samak Sundaravej was disqualified by the Constitution Court this afternoon.

Should Samak be removed from office by the judicial review, the Chart Thai Party would convene an urgent meeting to assess the situation which might lead to the nomination of Banharn, Somsak says.

10 am : Constitution Court judge Charan Pakdeethanakul says that the verdict on the prime minister's qualifications was ready for release this afternoon as scheduled.

8.30 am : Samak and his cabinet members start their weekly cabinet meeting in Prachak Silapakhom army camp.

6 am : Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej visits a fresh market in Udon Thani province before chairing a mobile cabinet meeting in Muang district. He appears in good mood while shopping in a fresh market.

The prime minister has his breakfast at a pork soup shop at 6 am and visits the Udon Thani Municipality Market. He is smiling while shopping.

He smiles back at a reporter without saying anything when asked whether he would accept the ruling of the Constitution Court in a disqualification case against him in the afternoon.

-- The Nation 2008-09-09

Don't 'Key Developments' normally follow in chronological order - NOT 'reverse order' as above? But sorry, of course this is LOS - love the place, but very much doubt that I will ever understand 'Thai logic'. Answers on a postcard please.

[Tony Clifton]

Atleast now we know for sure Thailand is a Banana Republic. Making the prime-minister resign because of a cooking show, laughable. A nice sum has changed hands for sure to get to this ruling. Laughable country and it won't change anything. New elections, same outcome, TRT/PPP will win, thats called democracy PAD/Sondhi.

MBL

Justice has been served. When you play in the big room, the stakes get bigger. He broke the law and now he is paying the price. He also lied about receiving money. (regardless of the amount). Lying in court is not cool, esspecially for a Prime Minister, who is supposed to set an example for the country.

Yes, and its time to look at making some arrest of some so called PAD leaders. Sondhi and KFC man, Colonel Sanders have had arrest warrants out now for a couple weeks, but strange that they are some how untouchable.... hmmm makes me wonder.....

You are confused between untouchable and unreachable.

[LaoPo]

I for one would enjoy living in an Absolute monarchy, so would my wife and some of our friends. We actually discussed that tonight, when we had our goodbye Samak party ;-)

Maybe ask your wife and friends to go to Swaziland Kurt ? A nice example of a fine Absolute Monarchy; The King is just in the process of choosing his 14th wife. The percentage of HIV/AIDS is about 40% so be careful.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7602427.stm

A rather small -almost- absolute monarchy is Liechtenstein where the Prince of Liechtenstein was awarded increased Powers after a Referendum (!!!) in 2004. So, if it can be done in Liechtenstein, why not in LOS ?

On a more serious note: you don't realize what you're saying.....

L'état, c'est moi (I am the state) and it was Louis XIV of France who said so.

Other historical examples are the Tsars of Russia with the ultimate Empress Catherine II the Great of course who ruled with an iron fist for 34 years.

But, if you want to live under:

"the monarch shall from this day forth be revered and considered the most perfect and supreme person on the Earth by all his subjects, standing above all human laws and having no judge above his person, neither in spiritual nor temporal matters, except God alone." *

...well, than Kurt, by all means go ahead and enjoy yourself

* Wiki, absolute monarchy.

LaoPo

[warmwater7]

Dont know excatly where this leads, but in the meantime these thais are teaching farang courts how to deal with the law !

When is the last time a PM has been convicted of anything in farangland ?!?

++ ^^

If I may comment on only that which I have limited knowledge..

I assure you , the American public , as well as The Justices of the United States Supreme Court , are now holding their collective breaths, watching the current developments in Thailand.

Someone who was/is one of the most powerful men in The United States Of America, Lewis " SCOOTER " Libby, was convicted of four felonies by a federal jury. This is a result of lies he told to an FBI and grand jury as it investigated the "outing " of CIA operative Valerie Plame. 4 - 6 - 2007

June 17, 1972 / watergate ( Democratic National Committee ) break-in and coverup forced

the resignation of RICHARD MILHOUSE NIXON. The first U.S. President to resign in history. 8-9-1974

In the United States Of America, those elected to lead the country as Commander-In-Chief are called " PRESIDENTS ".

I really hope LOS dosen't suffer anymore.

Democracy is painfull and expensive.

[ando]

As laughable as this recent course of events seems to the rest of the world. It is the law in Thailand and the court had no option but to deliver blind justice. The King himself has told the courts to apply the law fairly and honestly.

However, having said that, finding legal loopholes is the way of politicians and lawyers. And I am sure if there is a legal way around the intent of the courts ruling, plans will have already been put in place to exploit it.

A wise man once told me --"there is justice and there is the law, -- they are not always the same. But although a countries laws and justice system may be flawed in some ways, impartial application of the law by the courts is the only way for a civilized democracy to progress.

The PAD leaders have operated outside the law of the land and their turn in court will also come unless there is another coup to wipe the slate clean or they are successful in installing a sympathetic government of their own choice.

Edited September 9, 2008 by ando

[KennyF]

Just what the hel_l was he cooking anyway?

[sjaak327]

I for one would enjoy living in an Absolute monarchy, so would my wife and some of our friends. We actually discussed that tonight, when we had our goodbye Samak party ;-)

Pridi Phanomyong would turn a few times in his grave if he would hear that statement Kurt.

Not a good idea, don't you think.

[Tony Clifton]

Just what the hel_l was he cooking anyway?

According to the wife, "sh!t" compared to most popular Thai chefs.

[robee]

Just wonder how the Bhat will respond to this one now ??

Could get beat down, how about the SET

[robee]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Thailand needs is not free elections, but absolute monarchy.

Interesting point of view, why?

[robee]

Atleast now we know for sure Thailand is a Banana Republic. Making the prime-minister resign because of a cooking show, laughable. A nice sum has changed hands for sure to get to this ruling. Laughable country and it won't change anything. New elections, same outcome, TRT/PPP will win, thats called democracy PAD/Sondhi.

MBL

This isn't about a backroom sum, but a front room sum.

He took money from a MEDIA COMPANY for work.

makes no difference if it was cooking or making Oregami birds from paper,

or a show on civics and social responsabillity.

Media companies should not being paying Prime Ministers of any country period.

Lets see if CBS paid GWB to do a brush clearing show

It is reasonable to assume CBS wants more than BRUSH CLEANED,

more like FCC censorship fine rollbacks etc.

Anything else been turned up regaring his dealings with media company?

You want the BBC paying Gordon Brown a stipend for anything?

[tropo]

Just wonder how the Bhat will respond to this one now ??

The baht didn't move more than half a baht since the start of the protests (and that was in line with a trend started before), so not much I would say.

[henryalleman]

<br />Dont know excatly where this leads, but in the meantime these thais are teaching farang courts how to deal with the law ! <br /><br />When is the last time a PM has been convicted of anything in farangland ?!?<br /><br />++ ^^<br />

<br /><br /><br />

You clearly have no idea how democracy works in European countries. In any European parliamentary democracy Samak and his government would send home already a long time by a vote of distrust in the parliament.

European parliamentary democracy is based on the separations of power.

The excutive power = government under control of the parliament

The law making power= The parliament

The jurisdictional power= the courts

Neighter of them can interfere in the other power

An MP or member of parliamnet can only be judged by the court after the parliament took his parliamentary political immunity away by a vote in the parliament.

its not uncommon that an MP or Government in Europe is send home by the parliament. In Italy almost every 6 months.LOL

[geriatrickid]

Dont know excatly where this leads, but in the meantime these thais are teaching farang courts how to deal with the law !

When is the last time a PM has been convicted of anything in farangland ?!?

It was not a conviction in criminal law but an interpretation of constitutional law, and it happens regularly in the USA and Canada where the respective Supreme Courts rule on constitutional issues.

I don't share the outrage of some because I think it was a brilliant decision. Appreciably there wasn't a conflict of interest in the same way the former military junta members may have had real estate or supply contract interests. However it prvides two key turning points;

1. Sets a precedent because it is a strict interpretation of the law and more importantly,

2. Provides a way to defuse the current crisis. The Prime Minister is now officially gone. PAD can stand down, because this was a demand. The PM has not lost face because everyone can blame the law as it was written. PAD has a victory, even if it lost.

The PM will most likely be back and no one can say anything because the MPs will make that vote.

There's a reason why Judge Chat Chawakorn had that sly grin as he read the decision. The judge just gave everyone some breathing room. Sometimes, the Thais are alot smarter than people in TV give them credit for.

[Thai at Heart]

I have a feeliing the rest of Samak's court cases are now going to go very well for him.

I have exactly the same feeling, and likely a quick exit stage left to pastures new.

[taxexile]

impartial application of the law by the courts is the only way for a civilized democracy to progress.

thailand is hardly a true democracy , and the courts are anything but impartial.

is there any other country on earth that would remove a prime minister for cooking on tv , the surreal absurdity of this is astounding.

i'm surprised that they dont settle all court cases and government business here by penalty shoot outs.

it would fit in perfectly with the thai way of governance.

they dont want the world laughing at them do they.

[Tony Clifton]

I have a feeliing the rest of Samak's court cases are now going to go very well for him.

I have exactly the same feeling, and likely a quick exit stage left to pastures new.

Looking at the higher courts batting average for a while back, he's toast all along the line.

[LaoPo]

impartial application of the law by the courts is the only way for a civilized democracy to progress.

thailand is hardly a true democracy , and the courts are anything but impartial.

is there any other country on earth that would remove a prime minister for cooking on tv , the surreal absurdity of this is astounding.

i'm surprised that they dont settle all court cases and government business here by penalty shoot outs.

it would fit in perfectly with the thai way of governance.

they dont want the world laughing at them do they.

Agreed.

..Impartial law....I wish the families of murdered tourists/people, farang and Thai, would have a fair trial instead of letting the suspects/murderer(s) out and/or the run.

LaoPo

[Zpete]

Talk about embarrassing for Thailand! On the 4 pm BBC World bulletin everyone including the

Southeast Asia correspondent as well as Jonathan Head in Bangkok were shaking their heads

in disbelief that the prime minister of a country has been brought down by a cooking show !!

They even used the word " bizzare " to describe such a situation.

They admitted that they've even given up speculating how this will work out eventually

but he was concerning that Jonathan Head commented there is a risk this will not

resolved peacefully this time.....................................

It really does look dreadful that a country that has attracted so much foreign investment in the past

appears to be in such a muddle !

This is a fun place to live but it just reinforces my belief that it's too risky to invest

one satang in this Disneyland !

"Thailand has had its fair share of crises recently, but this is one that even the Thais are baffled by, our correspondent says."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7605838.stm

Thailand has exposed itself it has outgrown the path to democracy into a real

BIZARRE BANANA REPUBLIC

The whole world is laughing and even Hollywood and Bollywood couldn't have written such a script.

Can anyone imagine what the world leaders are talking about today to each other ?

Poor Thailand, they lost face to the whole governance world; what's next ?

LaoPo

LaoPo,

LOL, matey, we think alike.

I commented many moons ago about Thai politics.

Gilbert & Sullivan would have had a ball, as they did in the 19th century.

The comic/farce operas they wrote in Victorian England, about p[olitics and high society, were so to the point.

I can only fantasize as to what they would do now, watching Thailand's comic parliament.

[midas]

[

There's a reason why Judge Chat Chawakorn had that sly grin as he read the decision. The judge just gave everyone some breathing room. Sometimes, the Thais are alot smarter than people in TV give them credit for.

No they are not ! where else in the world have we seen such a protracted affair involving 2 Prime Ministers ?

People that are smart do not allow themselves become the laughing stock of he world.

And if they are so smart as you say, why couldnt they have written a clearer Constitution instead of one that is so

full of ambiguities and with so many loopholes that you could drive a bus through them.

I think you are giving the Thai's more credit than they deserve !

[Jimjim]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Thailand needs is not free elections, but absolute monarchy.

You're wrong, that failed long ago. Thais don't like one man with absolute power. Thaksin was trying to position himself as more and more powerful and that's what got Thailand in this whole mess from the beginning.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin's brother-in-law is the new PM...until Friday, when Samak returns...

Samak sacked, but PPP to back him again for PM

Sacked PM Samak has accepted the PPP's decision to again nominate him to lead the government, high ranking sources in the coalition parties said last night. The Constitution Court yesterday afternoon disqualified Samak from the job of PM for violating the constitution by hosting two cooking shows on commercial television. Shortly afterwards, the PPP held a meeting and resolved to again throw its support behind Samak. This was supported by all parties in the coalition government, including Chart Thai which earlier was reluctant to back him, the sources confirmed. Parliament, which is firmly controlled by the six coalition parties, will vote for a prime minister on Friday, House Speaker Chai Chidchob said. Deputy PM and Education Minister Somchai Wongsawat will act as PM for the time being. PPP spokesman Kuthep Saikrachang said, "The party has reached a unanimous decision and will nominate Samak to be PM again." Party members did not think there was anything amiss with Samak's actions and he did not cause any damage to the country.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/100908_News/10Sep2008_news01.php

=========================================================

Additional information from prior to the Court rendering its decision...

On the other hand, Samak would probably see a not guilty verdict as his reign being legitimized until the advent of the second coming...

until his next court case, whether it's hearing the appeal on his conviction and 2 year prison sentence for defamation case, or his bribery acceptance in the 6.7 Billion Baht Bangkok firetruck case, or his abuse of power case while serving as Bangkok Governor in 2004 to influence biddings on three garbage disposal projects worth 9.5 Billion Baht, or his abuse of power case involving the readmittance of ex-Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung's son Duang Yoobamrung to the Royal Thai Army, or the corruption case involving his 120 Billion Baht hydro-power dam on the Mekong river.

Never mind PAD... he can't hardly keep up with his attorney meetings and court cases.

Edited September 10, 2008 by sriracha john

[regfrancis]

Just wonder how the Bhat will respond to this one now ??

Unchanged @ 34.54 - Bloomberg analyst reckons its a THB +ve (uncertainty over).

And the SET will probably open very strong tomorrow morning.

These guys are showing signs of cracking from the preasure. How can they keep a streight face- putting over a cherade like a cooking show being a second job for the PM??

[diehard60]

....and what's the story on Banharn? Same, same, but different?

wasn'y he a prime minister before? and didn't they find out he was not born in Thailand. I think it was something like that. so he had to resign also.