Are Scams Motivated By Racism?

[Furbie]

In a recent post on a customer being scammed in a department store, someone pointed out the fact that I did not view the action as racist, as I stated the scam was targeted at a Westerner because they were an easier target.

While I do not find the act of a scam perpetrated on a Westerner in and of itself a racist act, I do have a huge problem with the Thai response to these types of scams. This, I believe is where some people can make a stronger argument for racism, though I would actually call it an extreme case of nationalism. My problem with these scams (aside from them occurring in the first place) is the utter lack of response that often (but not always) occurs when it gets reported. Be it from management of an establishment or the government itself. Too often, the victim of a crime has had the situation reversed onto them and it is made out to be their fault. Be it by the police or a manager/owner of a business. Keep in mind, if a Thai was scammed, he/she would certainly seek redress and the situation would be very unlikely to backfire on them.

At the root of it all, Westerners in Thailand feel a certain sense of powerlessness when in these situations. What is one to do when they have been taken advantage of through no fault of their own? The government will ignore you (or potentially blame you) and business management will likely ignore you. The result is often a post on TV to at least warn other about what happened.

I, for one, welcome these posts, as the only way to stop these scams is to shed as much light on them as possible, and encourage others to keep us informed of scams and deceptive business practices. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

[007]

It's the habit of a lot of Thai "business people" to scam. It's IMHO the national sport here (but also in other Asian countries, e.g. some Chinese shop owners in Malaysia like to scam tourists, too). It's not restricted to scamming Westerners (e.g. my girlfriend recently "had" to pay 15 baht!! for ONE fried egg, as she went to the only food hawker who was selling food on that day in that place. And no, she didn't ask for the price up front, and she just couldn't say 'no' when she was told the price.) Thai merchants scam Thais and foreigners alike.

Edited September 12, 2008 by 7

[robbiecia]

Interesting topic!!!!!

I for one dont think it is a racist issue.

Farangs are percieved to have money........so they become targets.

I would say that usually the people trying to take advantage of "tourists".........are poorly educated and

just assume that their victim wont catch the scam.

I do think that if you make the right people aware of what has happened..............you can often get

some recourse................farang or Thai

[onzestan]

Tourist are considered easy prey the whole world over, not only for the holiday mood they are in (mostly) but also because most of them will just shrug their shoulders when its about a small amount.

I don't think racism is involved just the idea that foreigners are more easy to cheat than the locals.

My 2 cents

onzestan

[bkkjames]

In response to the OP's question... scams are motivated by greed.

[mmushr00m]

Scams are motivated by greed.

Everyone is a target, locals or farangs.

Wife was just overcharged the other day at Suan Lum, how? she assumed that 'cos she was Thai they wouldnt do it to her.

It happens all over the world, I have seen it happen in Toronto.

its all about the almighty $$$$$$$

[Jingthing]

If a mark is identified and targeted by their race, then it is a racial issue. Apparently, it is politically incorrect here to notice that this happens here ... often. The OP pointed out the utter powerlessness we usually have in such situations. It really doesn't matter how we label these incidents, but you can't label them as one of the positive aspects of living in Thailand.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Jingthing

[Scott]

This has to with vulnerability and we are usually (although not always) a little more vulnerable. I've seen plenty of Thai's get scammed as well.

[Maigo6]

So when Thais get scammed is that racism also ?

Jesus H Christ, so many Farangs in Thailand feel like they are vcitims.

A Farang gets stopped at a Police checkpoint, They scream RACISM, a Farang gets stopped for not wearing a helmet, They scream racism, It only happens to the poor old Farang!

Jesus Mary & Joseph, what about the hundreds of Thais that got stopped at the same checkpoint ?

Is that racism too?

Some of these posts baffle me, there are certain people in Thailand that really need to move somewhere else, go see how you are never stopped by the Police in another country, see how people will never scam you in your own country, yeah right !

For Christs sake stop FAWKING MOANING AND FEELING LIKE YOUR VICTIMS!!!!!!!!!

You have a Passport, move to Monaco Monte Carlo, move anywhere but a developing SE Asian country, what the he-ll do you expect, do you in your wildest dreams expect to be treated the same way in Ethiopia, Chad, Haiti, Sudan, Burma, Jamaica, Columbia, Thailand and Cambodia, as you would in Switzerland, Monaco, Denmark, etc etc ?

For Christs sake grow up and accept the way you live in Thailand or use your Passport and move !!!!!!!!

All the bitching and moaning in the world won't change a thing, all it will do is give you an ulcer or make you one hel_l of a miserable old fart who everybody avoids cos you do nothing but moan!!!!

I actually feel sorry for some of the poor females that have to put up with such misery mongers!

Have a nice day folks.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Maigo6

[ukrules]

Scams are motivated by greed. There may be racism as well but that's merely incidental.

From what I've heard there are many foreigners ripping off other foreigners as well.

Edited September 12, 2008 by ukrules

[GuestHouse]

.....

Jesus H Christ, ......

Jesus Mary & Joseph, .....

For Christs sake.........

For Christs sake .....

And so endeth the sermon.

It seems Maigo has moved one step closer from believing other's shouldn't have views he doesn't agree with to claiming his own divine authority.

Edited September 12, 2008 by GuestHouse

[Wrong Turn]

Interesting topic!!!!!

I for one dont think it is a racist issue.

Farangs are percieved to have money........so they become targets.

Yes,

Farangs (Western) are easy to identify - look different.

Also, many tourists are "soft." They don't want to fight or hassle on a holiday - they're here for a good time.

And remember, Korean and Japanese tourists are percieved as being "rich" too, although some of the them may be more savvy.

[imaneggspurt]

So when Thais get scammed is that racism also ?

Jesus H Christ, so many Farangs in Thailand feel like they are vcitims.

A Farang gets stopped at a Police checkpoint, They scream RACISM, a Farang gets stopped for not wearing a helmet, They scream racism, It only happens to the poor old Farang!

Jesus Mary & Joseph, what about the hundreds of Thais that got stopped at the same checkpoint ?

Is that racism too?

Some of these posts baffle me, there are certain people in Thailand that really need to move somewhere else, go see how you are never stopped by the Police in another country, see how people will never scam you in your own country, yeah right !

For Christs sake stop FAWKING MOANING AND FEELING LIKE YOUR VICTIMS!!!!!!!!!

You have a Passport, move to Monaco Monte Carlo, move anywhere but a developing SE Asian country, what the he-ll do you expect, do you in your wildest dreams expect to be treated the same way in Ethiopia, Chad, Haiti, Sudan, Burma, Jamaica, Columbia, Thailand and Cambodia, as you would in Switzerland, Monaco, Denmark, etc etc ?

For Christs sake grow up and accept the way you live in Thailand or use your Passport and move !!!!!!!!

All the bitching and moaning in the world won't change a thing, all it will do is give you an ulcer or make you one hel_l of a miserable old fart who everybody avoids cos you do nothing but moan!!!!

I actually feel sorry for some of the poor females that have to put up with such misery mongers!

Have a nice day folks.

"

Jesus Mary & Joseph, got stopped at the same checkpoint ? " .3 ON A BIKE WAS IT ? ( couldnt resist it ,sorry,

[mr_hippo]

Worldwide, there are people who scam and there are people willing to be scammed! I had a break from nursing a few years back and I sold double glazing. We had a price list and were paid commission on a sliding scale. We knew what we could go down to and still earn some money. For example, a front door and frame (incl fitting) listed at about £1700 and we could go down to about £700 and still get £50 commission. I have sold a number of doors at list price; before I could offer a discount, the customer said "We'll take it!" Was wrong in taking those orders?

[imaneggspurt]

.....

Jesus H Christ, ......

Jesus Mary & Joseph, .....

For Christs sake.........

For Christs sake .....

And so endeth the sermon.

It seems Maigo has moved one step closer from believing other's shouldn't have views he doesn't agree with to claiming his own divine authority.

Is he Thai ?

[imaneggspurt]

Worldwide, there are people who scam and there are people willing to be scammed! I had a break from nursing a few years back and I sold double glazing. We had a price list and were paid commission on a sliding scale. We knew what we could go down to and still earn some money. For example, a front door and frame (incl fitting) listed at about £1700 and we could go down to about £700 and still get £50 commission. I have sold a number of doors at list price; before I could offer a discount, the customer said "We'll take it!" Was wrong in taking those orders?

If in the uk then id say yes, profit and progress there are 2 dirty words,. dont beleive me, sell your neighbor a car then tell him you had 500 pounds profit out of him, watch him jump up and down,. no really if making a profit was a sin we would all be sinners,. deliberate conning is different,

[Heng]

I for one think that racism need not necessarily have a negative connotation in every single circumstance. If you associate a particular trait or behavior that is true (a person from X walks into my car dealership, I can tell he is an X by the big X on his forehead... people from X are less likely to haggle... hence I will certainly not bargain down to our target profit margin and instead enjoy the larger profit margin), why does it have to be negative or wrong?

Edited September 12, 2008 by Heng

[sassienie]

Foreigners that have been or are being scammed in a foreign country should not take it as personal.

I am English. Back 1971 at the age of 19 I lived and worked in France for almost a year. This was pre-EEC days. I can remember at the time having to be always on the alert, as it seemed everyone was out to rip me off. No one could tell that I wasn’t French until I spoke, so it wasn’t racism. Things improved when I began to speak and understand some basic French.

I am sure in Thailand there are plenty of my fellow English peers here that would only be too delighted to separate me from my money, especially if I was a naive new boy on the block and it`s been tried.

If you are a foreigner living or considering residing in Thailand, first off, learn some basic Thai, take note of what things cost here, be aware that many Thais especially the uneducated believe that Westerners have money growing on trees, don’t fall in love with the first pretty face who acknowledges that you exist, don’t fall for hard luck stories and always be on the alert for scams and rip offs.

Scams are not that difficult to detect, if it doesn’t make sense, it’s a rip-off.

[mgjackson69]

Scams are motivated by greed.

Someone might argue that they will "jab" a foreigner harder than a local, but that is not racism, just recognition of a potentially more lucrative target.

[chuang]

Rip-off happens everywhere, in LOS it is nothing compare to Vietnam or China....and I mean towards foreigner and not only farang...

[Tod Daniels]

.....

Jesus H Christ, ......

Jesus Mary & Joseph, .....

For Christs sake.........

For Christs sake .....

And so endeth the sermon.

It seems Maigo has moved one step closer from believing other's shouldn't have views he doesn't agree with to claiming his own divine authority.

Is he Thai ?

No ,just a wannabee , he seems to forget that what (little?) intelligence he has came from a country OTHER than Thailand which enables him to THINK about what he writes , screaming bloody hel_l about some-one elses thoughts or points of view just because they are not in line with his own infers he is a borderline Thai nationalistic moron , shame realy , because he is quite a sage individual on some posts , even bordering on sanity .

I have rarely met a more dyed in the wool, "card carrying member" of the color coordinated shirt and matching bracelet wearing 'wanna-b-thai' faction than "Maigo6". It now seems from his previous post he has divine inspiration in his corner as well.

From time to time he will offer bits of wisdom and/or display intuitive intellect. However his endless soap-box rhetoric in ridiculing foreigners while defending the diminutive and ever so shallowly smiling inhabitants here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" can be a quite tough to plod thru (very nearly as tedious as my posts; which are based at the opposite end of the proverbial viewing spectrum).

[Naam]

Scams are motivated by greed.

Someone might argue that they will "jab" a foreigner harder than a local, but that is not racism, just recognition of a potentially more lucrative target.

is done in EACH and EVERY business WORLDWIDE. will the foreigner who takes up a job in Thailand claim that his employer is a racist because he is getting paid a multiple what his thai colleagues are getting?

all of you who talk about scams (SCAM! Mummy Mummy my girlfriend had to pay 15 Baht for a fried egg!) and racism try hard(er), get a life, stop dreaming and whining and face reality

[soundman]

People are carrying on about the utter powerlessness of farungs in Thailand. Completely un-true.

You have money in your pocket. Money is power at almost any level.

The disturbing fact is that most people don't understand that and use it to their advantage.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Jingthing]

This is just semantics. One definition of racism is discrimination. That means treating people differently based on their race. I remember a time when Japanese investors were heavily buying real estate in Hawaii and California. Sellers knowing a Japanese was interested would inflate their price demands. Greed, sure. Racism? Kind of a grey area. They made the decision based on Japanese nationality and Japan being a homogeneous nation, most Japanese nationals are Japanese. Would they be bright enough to know a Japanese-American is not the same as a Japanese-Japanese, probably depends. Now you might say, no harm/no foul, as many of these Japanese were indeed wealthy, well, OK, but ethically this is not so OK. Why should your race determine your price?

Edited September 13, 2008 by Jingthing

[Dakhar]

People are carrying on about the utter powerlessness of farungs in Thailand. Completely un-true.

You have money in your pocket. Money is power at almost any level.

The disturbing fact is that most people don't understand that and use it to their advantage.

Cheers,

Soundman.

Soundman, a lot of folks here are not motivated by money. I have tried to motivate employees with money... it rarely works. Just walk along any village and count the hammock dwellers. What on earth motivates these folks, I have no clue....

To the topic, I once complained about falangs getting scamed in Thailand to a Thai friend. Her comment was, som na na, because falangs are rich and that is just the way it should be.

So with that I do feel it is racist. What if I treated all Thai people as mentall midgets, because as we all know "they never get beyond a 6th grade educatione, etc etc blah blah blah." Would that not be racist just as well?

[soundman]

Soundman, a lot of folks here are not motivated by money. I have tried to motivate employees with money... it rarely works. Just walk along any village and count the hammock dwellers. What on earth motivates these folks, I have no clue....

^^^

IMO there are more scams by the Thai's on Thai's than us farung minority will ever see or hear about, so IMO most scams are not racially motivated, they are motivated by greed, laziness, lack of moral fibre & opportunity.

[wayfarer108]

.....

Jesus H Christ, ......

Jesus Mary & Joseph, .....

For Christs sake.........

For Christs sake .....

And so endeth the sermon.

It seems Maigo has moved one step closer from believing other's shouldn't have views he doesn't agree with to claiming his own divine authority.

Lee Van Cleef vs Humphrey Bogart .... hmmm .... tough match, looking forward to it

[khunandy]

There are "haves" and "have nots" everywhere in the world. I don't have a problem with minor scams from the "have nots", it teaches me to be on my toes. Whenever i get caught by a minor scam, be it a 15 baht egg or a farang price to enter a zoo, I don't jump up and down I just wise up.

Now, the "haves" scamming the "have nots" is a different kettle of fish and I suspect more widespread with more dire consequences for the "have nots'

They are the crowd I would like to see strung up by the nuts.

[gunnyd]

Scams can be had anywhere. You take a family from Duluth, Minnesota and they travel to New York or Los Angeles for the first time, will they be scammed? Most likely. Act like a tourist on holiday and you will be treated as such, anywhere. It's not racism, although having white skin does help the scamsters here in LOS out. I can't walk down to the MRT without being harassed by several groups of taxi drivers that hang out in front of the large hotels on the Soi. Is it because I am White absolutely. Is it racism nope, call it tourist profiling.

I learned enough Thai to get by and have no problem letting them or another scammer know that I am not a tourist and it works for me. The only downside is when a Thai starts talking a mile a minute with me. Unfortunately I am not fluent so I do what they do when they don't understand English, smile and say "cap" at regular intervals.

[mgjackson69]

This is just semantics. One definition of racism is discrimination. That means treating people differently based on their race. I remember a time when Japanese investors were heavily buying real estate in Hawaii and California. Sellers knowing a Japanese was interested would inflate their price demands. Greed, sure. Racism? Kind of a grey area. They made the decision based on Japanese nationality and Japan being a homogeneous nation, most Japanese nationals are Japanese. Would they be bright enough to know a Japanese-American is not the same as a Japanese-Japanese, probably depends. Now you might say, no harm/no foul, as many of these Japanese were indeed wealthy, well, OK, but ethically this is not so OK. Why should your race determine your price?

I would submit that the sellers raised their prices because they knew the Japanese would pay more..same-same as Thailand and many other places. Farang gets a higher quote because farang will pay....that is good business or greed depending upon whether you are the buyer or the seller. But it is NOT racist.