Dodgy Condo Developers

[matter]

The racing team associated with a well known local condo development (name witheld to prevent the owner of TV getting into trouble) has recently taken delivery of a shipment of auto parts from my company.

They are refusing to settle an outstanding bill of over 300,000 baht. Apart from the obvious tactics (not stated in order to keep the TV forums family orientated), can anyone advise any legal channels for us to follow?

Should we go to the police first to report it, or do I just go straight to my lawyer?

I am led to believe that the guy responsible for not paying might possibly already have a poor reputation in Pattaya.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[tattoodrob]

i dont think the police can help as the people you may be talking about may have good connections so maybe a lawyer(more expense). lawyer might suggest report to police though so you have something recorded,first i think a letter from a lawyer to them will show you are serious.

maybe you can do a deal........use of flash car for 1 month or maybe even a condo at the ghost tower......oooops sorry made a joke,sorry mods

[Crow Boy]

I suggest you report it to the police as a complaint against the company. The police may not do anything about it but if it goes to court as a civil matter (much more likely than as a criminal matter) having made a report adds to your case.

I think you are going to have to seek the services of a good lawyer. They will start with the usual practice of telephoning and sending letters. I assume that you have records of proof that your company did the work as required and it was delivered to them.

I am sorry to say that this will take some considerable time, effort and money. Even if you win you may still not get your money back and will still have to pay for your legal costs. If the work was done for a company and that company folds or ceases business you are then just one more creditor owed.

I doubt that you will get the use of one of their luxury cars or a free condo.

CB

[Bel Mondo]

I'm sorry for your loss.

Going after anyone -- filing either a criminal action (either through the police or pursuant to a private prosecution) and/or a civil action is really a waste of both time and money relative to such a small amount. You will wind up spending almost as much in legal fees as you can ever hope to recover. I won't even mention the amount of stress under which you will place yourself. Litigation in any country is NOT an enjoyable experience unless you, yourself, happen to be an attorney who understands and is trained to cope with this scenario.

Even if you win at the trial level, appeals can be taken. The first appeal will take at least 1 year.

You must also understand that since your debt flows from a business context, you could wind up being merely a creditor in bankruptcy --- an UNSECURED creditor at that! Absolutely no chance of getting compensation.

Best advice --when doing business "anywhere" -- "Show me the money (NO postdated checks) and I'll give you the product!"

Consider this a lesson learned.

And remember --- Todays "reputable businessman" may very well be tomorrows "indicted defendant" or "plaintiff in bankruptcy".

[monty]

Unfortunately have to agree with Bel Mondo.

I have a very good friend who has a civil case running against a real estate agent (not the same as the OP's one). They and their lawyers can easily outsmart you.

In my friends case it's between him and the owner of the company himself (Thai national) and not between him and the company.

The owner just pleads poverty, as he only draws a very small salary from his company and all the assets are in the company name. Never mind he moves around in a chauffeur driven limo in three piece Armani suits, the bloke himself owns nothing and that's what the courts have to go with!

He's smart enough to have no shares in his own company (sisters, brothers and maids do have of course)!

My friend is pushing through though (amount is 5,000,000 Baht), but his legal costs are already higher then what Matter wants to recuperate, and very little chance to get anything...

[nouvo135]

The racing team associated with a well known local condo development (name witheld to prevent the owner of TV getting into trouble) has recently taken delivery of a shipment of auto parts from my company.

They are refusing to settle an outstanding bill of over 300,000 baht. Apart from the obvious tactics (not stated in order to keep the TV forums family orientated), can anyone advise any legal channels for us to follow?

Should we go to the police first to report it, or do I just go straight to my lawyer?

I am led to believe that the guy responsible for not paying might possibly already have a poor reputation in Pattaya.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Matter,

I would suggest you try to enforce the return of your goods. If you already fitted in them in the engine, Titanium parts etc??? then i would make a complaint "Of obtaining goods by deception" to the police.

A further issue is that it is also an immigration matter if someone is conducting crimes of this nature.

People have been deported for stealing a can of beer in pattaya before so you do have some chance of at least getting their hand forced.

I know at least 1 of the partys you have issue with and i also know he obtained money/goods by deception before and was hauled up in front of immigration and had to pay the money back or risk being kicked out. I dont know exactly how this was done but i know it worked and G paid. I also know people who have filed papers in court against him and they settled out of court.

You should try to target 1 of them maybe and not both. Ideally the person who ordered and collected the goods. (you might the pressure is added and past up the line)

It not sufficient to just take the goods and say sorry we are not paying. thats theft. you cannot walk into tesco lotus fill your trolley up and say sorry not paying. Forget the lawyers first if possible or just get an advisor. PM me and i can recomend 1. it cost me 10% when he worked for me. He knows the laws here and is very smart.

Good Luck....

[expatgaz]

I'd forget abt the 300k and just take it out on his motors.Doesn't take much when your taking abt Aston Martins & Ferraris.Sure your still out of pocket but It'll make you feel better.

[Basil B]

I'd forget abt the 300k and just take it out on his motors.Doesn't take much when your taking abt Aston Martins & Ferraris.Sure your still out of pocket but It'll make you feel better.

This would be criminal action putting "Matter" on the wrong side of the law.

According to the racing teams blurb they are sponsored by "you know who" and I would assume then the racing team is responsible for paying you, I also seam to recall mention of "you know who" pulling or reneging on their sponsorship deal, unfortunately that thread has be deleted.

BB

[thebounder]

Your prospects depend on whether it is a personal or company debt, i.e did you sell the goods to a company or an individual. If to a company, and that company is now insolvent, realistically your chances are not at all good. However, if you sold to an individual, assuming he has personal assets, expensive cars for example, although it may take some time, your prospects are much better. Presumably, this is a simple debt co case, i.e there can be no bona fide defence. You can show you supplied the goods and the price of them. Therefore, unless the other side is alleging they are defective (in which case they should return them), there can be no defence. I personally have not used the legal system here to pursue debts, but friends of mine have and they insist the system is actually better than most people would have you believe. I have been told that a standard debt co case like this generally takes around one year. Once you have judgement, assuming it is against an individual with assets, you would then proceed to commence bankrupcy proceedings against them.

The first step is to find a good, honest lawyer. Unfortunately that is easier said than done.

[zorro1]

How did he get the parts without payment? Send over a dozen boyz on bikes to his house, way cheaper than a lawyer

[nouvo135]

Take my advice M8 and do as i told ya. Are you the American out on the road to Bira Circuit???? on the left??? Just wondered

[nouvo135]

Go and make the report to the police. PM me and i will tell you who to take with you. If you are the Guy at the motorsport shop on the big road well report it to the local police there. you must have some thai staff, to take with you. tell them what has happened and tell them you have problem now with money. You loose BIG money and you need help or maybe you close shop.

DO NOT Go to Jomtien Police.

Use your local Police where the crime was commited.

Obtaining goods by deception.

You can find Mr G at Freeway Villa's. Umpher Pong

But Get off your ass man and do something dont sit here waiting for answers. If you are straight then you have nothing to loose. But Whining and Whining here gets you jack S#it.

There is no easy solution but persistence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

You need to be the BIGGEST FLEE in the ear. Make THEIR life hel_l.

i know you did the HONDA engine. So go and sort it M8

[matter]

Go and make the report to the police. PM me and i will tell you who to take with you. If you are the Guy at the motorsport shop on the big road well report it to the local police there. you must have some thai staff, to take with you. tell them what has happened and tell them you have problem now with money. You loose BIG money and you need help or maybe you close shop.

DO NOT Go to Jomtien Police.

Use your local Police where the crime was commited.

Obtaining goods by deception.

You can find Mr G at Freeway Villa's. Umpher Pong

But Get off your ass man and do something dont sit here waiting for answers. If you are straight then you have nothing to loose. But Whining and Whining here gets you jack S#it.

There is no easy solution but persistence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

You need to be the BIGGEST FLEE in the ear. Make THEIR life hel_l.

i know you did the HONDA engine. So go and sort it M8

Nouvo. Will PM.

[matter]

Go and make the report to the police. PM me and i will tell you who to take with you. If you are the Guy at the motorsport shop on the big road well report it to the local police there. you must have some thai staff, to take with you. tell them what has happened and tell them you have problem now with money. You loose BIG money and you need help or maybe you close shop.

DO NOT Go to Jomtien Police.

Use your local Police where the crime was commited.

Obtaining goods by deception.

You can find Mr G at Freeway Villa's. Umpher Pong

But Get off your ass man and do something dont sit here waiting for answers. If you are straight then you have nothing to loose. But Whining and Whining here gets you jack S#it.

There is no easy solution but persistence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

You need to be the BIGGEST FLEE in the ear. Make THEIR life hel_l.

i know you did the HONDA engine. So go and sort it M8

I'll let the Thai guy who owns the company report it. That should sort it.

[tellthetruth]

Go and make the report to the police. PM me and i will tell you who to take with you. If you are the Guy at the motorsport shop on the big road well report it to the local police there. you must have some thai staff, to take with you. tell them what has happened and tell them you have problem now with money. You loose BIG money and you need help or maybe you close shop.

DO NOT Go to Jomtien Police.

Use your local Police where the crime was commited.

Obtaining goods by deception.

You can find Mr G at Freeway Villa's. Umpher Pong

But Get off your ass man and do something dont sit here waiting for answers. If you are straight then you have nothing to loose. But Whining and Whining here gets you jack S#it.

There is no easy solution but persistence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

You need to be the BIGGEST FLEE in the ear. Make THEIR life hel_l.

i know you did the HONDA engine. So go and sort it M8

I'll let the Thai guy who owns the company report it. That should sort it.

Listn to Nouva 135 he knows and also tells the truth

[Gary A]

I feel sorry for your loss but the question to ask is how long you have been in Thailand? Thai people deal in cash for a reason. No one extends credit, especially to a company that had a HUGE project that was VERY dubious to start with. Hopefully you can absorb the loss and accept it as a lesson learned.

[torrenova]

Got to agree with Gary here. No way would I get to a situation where someone had a 300k bill. If a special order then pay up front. If regular items then COD at worst. If ervices then agree a payment schedule or work stops.

Sorry but unless you go and make a collection, using the lawis going to be a waste of time. Get someone to make a persona request or make them an offer they cannot refuse.

[xbusman]

Sounds like a walk away situation to me. Like Monson, you could spend a lot more than 300K trying to collect and never get anything back.

Never put more in Thailand than you are willing to walk away from and its walkin time.

[KhunTao]

It will be walking time for a lot more people ....

Some will turn the other cheek, others may possibly seek ways of addressing the situation. I hear there is significant Russian investment. Some investors may perhaps suffer from a serious sense of humor failure.

Edited October 12, 2008 by KhunTao

[loonodingle]

The racing team associated with a well known local condo development (name witheld to prevent the owner of TV getting into trouble) has recently taken delivery of a shipment of auto parts from my company.

They are refusing to settle an outstanding bill of over 300,000 baht. Apart from the obvious tactics (not stated in order to keep the TV forums family orientated), can anyone advise any legal channels for us to follow?

Should we go to the police first to report it, or do I just go straight to my lawyer?

I am led to believe that the guy responsible for not paying might possibly already have a poor reputation in Pattaya.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Matter

Have you had any luck getting your money????

Some of the previous Members got banned so i am asking on their behalf.

Was the lawyer any good??

Rumour has it BP screwed Gunter Klose for 6 million and he doesnt work for him anymore. he kept the cars.

Let us know how you got on.

[DegenFarang]

spend 40,000 baht, problem solved

or email them telling them you intend to spend 40,000 baht to solve this problem. this could backfair though as they could just spend their own 40,000 baht to solve their new problem.

oh the joys of doing business in the 3rd world...

[loonodingle]

Did you ever get your money.?????????

His wife is driving around in an ASTON MARTIN now. amazing what property development can bring you. or maybe your money helped along with all the other guys who have lost there goods and deposits.