PAD Leaders To Announce New Politics

[Thai at Heart]

...It is THAILAND!

You missed this little caveat at the end. A tentative statement it may be, but if I don't see anywhere in this list that it would be farmers representatives, pro free marketeers and pop singers he would like to be included.

[pumpuiman]

What a load of crap. 50% "elected" from a pool of "professionals" of PAD'S choosing.

Same shit, different day.

Did anybody notice anything odd about this statement....

He claimed that several well-respected individuals in society have anonymously submitted their own critiques of new politics to the PAD. These individuals include social critic Prawase Wasi, political scientist Chai-anand Samutwanich and former PM Anand Panyarachun.

so much for anonymous

[cmsally]

What a load of crap. 50% "elected" from a pool of "professionals" of PAD'S choosing.

Same shit, different day.

Did anybody notice anything odd about this statement....

He claimed that several well-respected individuals in society have anonymously submitted their own critiques of new politics to the PAD. These individuals include social critic Prawase Wasi, political scientist Chai-anand Samutwanich and former PM Anand Panyarachun.

so much for anonymous

Has anyone actually heard these names of people being quoted. I have listened to PAD speeches and only heard things along the line of " I was given a suggestion from a very important person about the same age as me .... but I can't give out their name"

That kind of rhetoric comes out again and again.

Also if certain people are giving a critique - there are critiques that agree and disagree, so how are you supposed to know what the gist was.

If we go to direct sources in fact we come up with the following:

Somkiart said many leading figures had anonymously submitted views on promoting direct participation by the people as a counter balancing force to mainstream politics.

He claimed that leading figures, such as Prawase Wasi and Anand Panyarachun, made critiques of the political system.

Nation 22 Sept

Not quite the same is it. He states that critiques were given anonymously and he claims these people were some of the participants. In the article it also says that they were claimed to have made critiques of the political system (we presume as a whole), not specifically the new politics idea.

Me thinks there is some word twisting and bending going on here!

If in fact Khun Anand is in favour of new politics. I would put it to him that :

Consequently, many among us have always had a hankering for —knights on white

horses“ to release us from the thrall of corruption, notwithstanding the fact that

many of these —knights“ were themselves notably less than paragons of honesty

and integrity.

PAD is not the knight on a white horse which he himself has implied not to exist.

And remind him of his speech that points to a future in Thailand resting on greater public participation and better education.

Quote above from Khun Anand's speech SOAS 1993 SOAS Thai studies conference 1993

[hammered]

It looks likwe there is going to be a debate centered around politcal reform. What form this takes will depend on who you talk to. PAD are divided on the exact details of what they want but the new politics based on a assumption of say 50-50 divison is probably one end of the spectrum on this debate. From the PPP side constitutional ammendment to let everyone off is another end of the spectrum. There is a lot of space between these two extremes and if enough people can coalesce around a center- whereever that may be- then we may have a solution. Personally Im not sure protagonists are ready for that but hope I am wrong.

By the way I think the Dems basically said new politcs as outlined to date wouldnt work. Ok hardly surprising but another indication that all and sundry are moving into the poltical reform debate.

[Jai Dee]

Somchai and PAD come up with Mediocre choices to end political conflict

The Somchai Wongsawat government and the People's Alliance for Democracy appear to have settled on mediocrity and are both in a quandary about how to bring democracy forward.

The government's political expediency is to create a mediocre Cabinet and come up with half-baked ideas to mislead the PAD into establishing a second-rate model for the political system. Even though both camps claim its version of democracy is superior, their struggle for power is hampering efforts to pull through the political quagmire.

This week the government is expected to announce its Cabinet. No one has great expectations about the ministerial line-up but it would still be a letdown to see appointments being based completely on expediency.

In spite of public support, Somchai has allowed this golden opportunity to shore up confidence slip away.

The allocation of Cabinet seats is now mired with coalition quotas, factional squabbling and a game of musical chairs among cronies.

Like the Samak Sundaravej government - which was hatched in Hong Kong - the Somchai administration is being drawn up in London.

Key faction leaders like Newin Chidchob and Yongyuth Tiyapairat allocated seats under instructions from former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Khunying Pojaman.

Somchai's wife, Yaowapa, advised her brother Thaksin into reserving plum assignments for a clique of MPs from the North. Loyal allies from Chiang Mai were duly rewarded with jobs in the PM's inner circle, and Somchai reportedly agreed to rubber-stamp the deal worked out by his wife and in-laws.

The Cabinet line-up signals the People Power Party's determination to plough through all political adversity in order to cling to power.

Political expediency might yield an incompetent government, with coalition MPs focusing more on partisan interests than the greater good.

Even if the government were to collapse in a few months, it would not be of concern because the alliance and the electoral system would remain intact to help win re-election bids.

It is just a coincidence that the PAD-led opposition has decided to come up with a new political model to replace what it considers a flawed electoral system at the same time as the unveiling of the Cabinet.

The PAD intends to make people aware of the "evil-side" of the Somchai government - which it claims to be a proxy of Thaksin's autocratic regime. But by rushing to advance the tentative model for its so-called "new politics", it has failed to think things through. As a result, confusion only seems to intensify.

It remains doubtful whether its new politics could be a viable alternative to the existing political system.

Though the PAD claims it is drawing a road map to revamp the system, it appears unable to come up with either a fresh proposal or a breakthrough.

The debate on what constitutes an appropriate political model for Thailand has been rekindled time and again over the past 76 years. Arguments advanced by the PAD are nothing but a rehash of past issues.

The idea about allocating House seats between appointees and elected MPs is not new. For more than a decade after the advent of democracy in 1932, half of the parliamentary representatives were appointed.

However, nowadays people are more politically conscious, which is why the PAD is being met with such stiff opposition to the idea of House seats being allocated.

This idea has since been modified to divide seats between elected MPs via constituency vote and elected professional representatives via peer vote. The PAD has yet to clarify how the nomination process and peer vote would be organised.

The idea of professional representation sounds strikingly similar to the so-called democratic representation in a communist regime. If the PAD were to emulate a Chinese political model, many would cry foul over the regression of popular democracy.

Source: The Nation - 23 September 2008

[Thai at Heart]

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/11/29/pol...cs_30020243.php

November 2006

Reduce MPs' power and numbers: Prawase

The new constitution should reduce the power and number of MPs and help bureaucrats be independent from politicians, respected intellectual Dr Prawase Wasi suggested yesterday

"I propose that bureaucrats should be indepedent from politicians, who can no longer be removed or transferred from the post, because if the bureaucrats are strong, they can keep a check on politicians,'' he said.

Prawase said the new constitution should strengthen democracy at the local level. "This will make our democracy strong. The United States has been strong because its democracy at the local level is strong,'' he said.

It seems his stance is a long way from the PAD, although it may have changed so unless the PAD is willing to disclose what he has actually said about "New Politics" it seems very disengenious to attribute his name to the discussion. In addition, where are those pesky foreign educated commentators that don't understand the Thai system who Sondhi has talked about so much.

[jayjayjayjay]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And what war would that be?

2nd Worldwar?

Vietnam war?

Klingon empire against Borgs?

more likely the same group as Zimbabwe, where too next!

Boater, couldn't agree with you more. In any other country this unlawful mob called PAD would have been evicted disgracefully from holding the nations parliment house hostage. This disgusts me too the core, the fact they stay gives an air of legitimacy too them the scum. Let them have the bridge, but when are they going to be jailed for treson! Before Thaksin hopefully!

Edited September 24, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[cmsally]

Is anyone attending this ?:

FCCT debate

[h90]

Is anyone attending this ?:

FCCT debate

I don't expect to much from these people discussing something which is not finish....

[Howsitgoin]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And what war would that be?

2nd Worldwar?

Vietnam war?

Klingon empire against Borgs?

For somebody who knows so little, you have an enormous amount of opinions.

FYI: you had the Rom Klao War, and many regular border skirmishes. You had the Communist insurgency as well (many brutal battles), and presently the insurgency in the three southernmost provinces.

[h90]

Panellists at yesterday's session failed to include war veterans, he added.

And what war would that be?

2nd Worldwar?

Vietnam war?

Klingon empire against Borgs?

For somebody who knows so little, you have an enormous amount of opinions.

FYI: you had the Rom Klao War, and many regular border skirmishes. You had the Communist insurgency as well (many brutal battles), and presently the insurgency in the three southernmost provinces.

OK Rom Klao War was a terrible thing but the Communists were no war the southern things aren't a war as well.

[Howsitgoin]

OK Rom Klao War was a terrible thing but the Communists were no war the southern things aren't a war as well.

Everything that involves combat, with injured and dead, is war enough. Maybe for armchair warriors it may not count as a war, but when you are directly involved it is war enough.

And the Communist insurgency had several very brutal and long drawn out battles, read your history.

So little knowledge, and blindly following yellow propaganda...just like 1923 in another continent...

[Plus]

"Yellow propaganda"? What are you alluding to?

>>>

Is it another banned member with a new nick?

An anonimous internet nominee of some poster busted for breaking forum rules? Demands representation and respect for his ideas but always end up flaming and offending others or breaking rule no 1, which he publicly denies.

Microcosm of Thailand on TV.

[jumnien]

If they break the rules, they should be banned. PAD has been breaking the rules, breaking the law, for many months now; BAN THE PAD! NOW!

[Ricardo]

If they break the rules, they should be banned. PAD has been breaking the rules, breaking the law, for many months now; BAN THE PAD! NOW!

Or, in the interests of even-handedness, issue them all with diplomatic passports ?

[sriracha john]

OK Rom Klao War was a terrible thing but the Communists were no war the southern things aren't a war as well.

Everything that involves combat, with injured and dead, is war enough. Maybe for armchair warriors it may not count as a war, but when you are directly involved it is war enough.

Does combating to return to Thaivisa included in that, Colonel?

Edited September 25, 2008 by sriracha john

[jumnien]

If they break the rules, they should be banned. PAD has been breaking the rules, breaking the law, for many months now; BAN THE PAD! NOW!

Or, in the interests of even-handedness, issue them all with diplomatic passports ?

Exactly, PAD should be sent to London immediately!

[OlRedEyes]

Maybe the PAD should brainstorm around the idea of an auction system for parliamentary seats and ministerial posts. Just get rid of the evil foreign idea of voting totally. No political parties. Highest bidder for a post wins. Simple and transparent. Very democratic, everyone is eligible to bid. That should suit the country's style well.

[Plus]

That's exactly how it works at the moment.

Only stupid Democrats sit there with their ideology like a grandma at a college keg party.

They simply don't belong to Thai politics.

And PAD is guilty of gatecrashing.

[AlKing]

Maybe the PAD should brainstorm around the idea of an auction system for parliamentary seats and ministerial posts. Just get rid of the evil foreign idea of voting totally. No political parties. Highest bidder for a post wins. Simple and transparent. Very democratic, everyone is eligible to bid. That should suit the country's style well.

Please do not forget that Thailand is a Kingdom. Please respect the current system.

[Tod Daniels]

This may be of interest to the foreign armchair political pundits on the forum;

Reforming Thailand's Politics

An evening at the FCCT to discuss the controversial PAD proposal for a ‘New Politics’ for Thailand

Tuesday, September 30, at 8:00 pm

with buffet dinner at 7:00 pm (Please see pricing and reservation procedure below)

Please join us for a debate on the most pressing issue now confronting the country - how to reform its political culture and institutions so that they enjoy the trust of all sectors of society.

The speakers will be:

- Kasit Piromya, former Ambassador to Washington and Tokyo, and now a supporter of the People’s Alliance for Democracy.

- Korn Chatikavanij, Deputy Leader of the Democrat Party

- Chris Baker, author and lecturer on Thai politics

-----

Members: No cover charge, buffet dinner is 350 baht

Non-members: 300 baht cover charge without buffet dinner or 650 baht for buffet dinner including cover charge

Reservations: To ensure sufficient food for the buffet, we would greatly appreciate your making a buffet reservation at least one day before the program if you plan to join us for the dinner. (No penalty for cancellation if last minute conflicts arise.) Please also note that tables/seats will be reserved only for those with advance buffet bookings. To reserve, please call 02-652-0580-1 or click here to send an e-mail to [email protected]

**Usual disclaimer; I have no affiliation with the FCCT, and only offer this information up as something of interest given the current political situation. Then again, given the often times narrow & myopic views expressed here, maybe not. .. ...

[OlRedEyes]

Maybe the PAD should brainstorm around the idea of an auction system for parliamentary seats and ministerial posts. Just get rid of the evil foreign idea of voting totally. No political parties. Highest bidder for a post wins. Simple and transparent. Very democratic, everyone is eligible to bid. That should suit the country's style well.

Please do not forget that Thailand is a Kingdom. Please respect the current system.

<deleted> has that got to do with it please? Please go get your meds.

Edited September 26, 2008 by OlRedEyes

[cmsally]

A run down on the FCCT debate last night. Unfortunately I couldn't make it , was anyone on this forum there?

FCCT debate

[sabaijai]

I was there. It wasn't much of a debate. Basically you had Korn, Baker and every single foreign journo who came up to the Q&A microphone afterwards berating Kasit or trying to embarrass him. Kasit didn't stand a chance, not least because his English was much less fluent than Korn's or, of course, Baker's. If you came wishing to hear any real insight into the issues, you would have come away, as I did, disappointed.

Issues of election-buying were skirted with comments such as one Baker made, 'The days when villagers could be bought with two reds is over.' Despite the fact the price of one vote has gone up considerably (not two reds, ie, 200 baht, now, but rather ranging from one purple to one purple plus three reds--500-800 baht), there was no recognition of the village fund buyout, the planting of aw baw taws, and so on. In other words, the susceptibility of the popular vote system to widespread corruption was never acknowledged by anyone who spoke.

Unlike the BP commentator, I was more impressed with Korn than either Kasit or Baker. Baker should have been there to provide balance, but instead he came off almost as a PPP spokesperson.

[hammered]

I was there. It wasn't much of a debate. Basically you had Korn, Baker and every single foreign journo who came up to the Q&A microphone afterwards berating Kasit or trying to embarrass him. Kasit didn't stand a chance, not least because his English was much less fluent than Korn's or, of course, Baker's. If you came wishing to hear any real insight into the issues, you would have come away, as I did, disappointed.

Issues of election-buying were skirted with comments such as one Baker made, 'The days when villagers could be bought with two reds is over.' Despite the fact the price of one vote has gone up considerably (not two reds, ie, 200 baht, now, but rather ranging from one purple to one purple plus three reds--500-800 baht), there was no recognition of the village fund buyout, the planting of aw baw taws, and so on. In other words, the susceptibility of the popular vote system to widespread corruption was never acknowledged by anyone who spoke.

Unlike the BP commentator, I was more impressed with Korn than either Kasit or Baker. Baker should have been there provide balance, but instead he came off almost as a PPP spokesperson.

Personally I have found that you get a higher standard of politcal debate in the local markets etc than at the FCCT when it comes to local politcs. It is more of a place where invited speakers can put their views forth, jounos can pick up a few harmless bits, political students or "the concerned" can ask a question or see one of their heroes and nothing really happens. A kind of elite debating society without the debate as far as local issues go and certainly no insight. Maybe they are better when it is not about Thai issues or maybe I just know less or care less about them. Luckily in terms of the real world what is said in the FCCT will have little to no effect.

Baker's reputation has recently taken a few hits especially since his not so long ago analysis of Samak being in a much stronger position and being around for a long time fell apart a couple of days later. Maybe resting on laurels. Korn is a Democrat functionary going through the motions although admittedly he is a talented one. Kasit, well I would have predicted he would have a hard time at FCCT and at the end of the day he would have been happy just to get through it.

[Howsitgoin]

Issues of election-buying were skirted with comments such as one Baker made, 'The days when villagers could be bought with two reds is over.'

I have forgot to go there, but it seems i didn't miss much.

Anyhow, if you read Andrew Walkers research, and Ungpakorn's many comments - then the issue of vote buying is indeed far more complex than the government's accusers do try to make it out, and not so linear as suggested.

I would indeed tend to skirt over the issue of vote buying as something of minor relevance. The village funds partly worked very well, and partly not. Skirting over it as a "buy out" is a simplification.

Anyhow, have we now finally got a definition of what "New Politics" actually is other than the amazing conclusion that there is lots of corruption in Thailand, and that something has to be done, whatever that may be?

[Plus]

I've seen quite a few people specify for the benefit of numb-nuts like Ungpakorn that vote buying includes a lot more than actually handing out the notes, and most money goes into buying MPs rather than individual votes.

[Howsitgoin]

I've seen quite a few people specify for the benefit of numb-nuts like Ungpakorn that vote buying includes a lot more than actually handing out the notes, and most money goes into buying MPs rather than individual votes.

Yes, Plus...

And what about "New Politics"? Any news on that?

[Plus]

I wasn't there.

"New politics" is a proposal for the society to consider, debate, and adapt. A starting point for reform.

Incidentally, it has been defined many many times. "Undemoractic regressive fascism" seems to work well for anti-PAD types.

[Howsitgoin]

I wasn't there.

"New politics" is a proposal for the society to consider, debate, and adapt. A starting point for reform.

Incidentally, it has been defined many many times. "Undemoractic regressive fascism" seems to work well for anti-PAD types.

Very interesting - "New Politics" is a debating club, and to introduce that a TV station had to be attacked, Government House occupied, and nearly a war had to be provoked with a neighboring country.

That truly takes marketing to completely new spheres.

Anyhow, i am more interested in what the people who have actually been there have to say now how "New Politics" got defined yesterday.

Thanks for your input nevertheless.