Joint Bank Account

[Gumballl]

Yesterday I opened a joint bank account with my Thai wife. Apparently without realizing (she brought it to my attention later), we had set up the account so that both of us have to be present to make a withdrawal. This will obviously make things difficult/impossible for her to withdraw money if she is on holiday here in Thailand and I remain in the US (btw, we both reside in the US).

The account was opened at Bangkok Bank; it is a 12-month "fixed deposit" account paying 2.75% per annum. I know, peanuts.

Is there a way to get the bank to drop the requirement that both of us be present at the bank to make a withdrawal? I opted for the joint account hoping that with my name on the account, I would have legal entitlement to at least 50% of the sum should someday something should happen (e.g. divorce). Was I wrong to assume that I have any rights?

The other thing that is bugging me now is that my wife is offering to go back to the bank, to re-open a similar account but in her name only, thus alleviating the issue requiring us both to be present . After a few years of reading some of the posts here on TV, fears are stirring about in my mind.

Regardless, if I decided to keep the joint account, what is to stop my wife from borrowing an equal amount (that is in the account), and defaulting on the loan? Would I (and the assets I have deposited) be at risk?

P.S. Are joint bank accounts in farang-land any different than here in Thailand? I guess both parties will always have some measure of risk that the spouse will not clean out the account.

P.S.S. We opened the account to stash away money that we intend to use to build a house in the near future.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Gumballl

[Simmo]

Get an ATM card for the account?

[Gumballl]

Get an ATM card for the account?

No, we did not get one. And fact, I'll need to ask if that is possible with the "fixed deposit" account.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Gumballl

[PattayaParent]

I think the problem is you opened a fixed term account.

Your wife won't be able to make a withdrawal while on holiday and just make sure that when the 12 months is up you are here with her to make the withdrawal.

If you had opened a joint savings account then you would be able to get an ATM and an option that either named account holder can withdraw money.

[Boater]

Fixed deposit accounts, you cannot take money out during the duration, i know that some you can, but you lose all your interest earned

Quick one, what posed you to open a fixed deposit account at 2.75 % ??? ... when you can easily get 5%

[PhilHarries]

Get an ATM card for the account?

No, we did not get one. And fact, I'll need to ask if that is possible with the "fixed deposit" account.

Reading (not so) between the lines there is more than a hint of uncertainty in the relationship........

I would have legal entitlement to at least 50% of the sum should someday something should happen (e.g. divorce).

and..........

if I decided to keep the joint account, what is to stop my wife from borrowing an equal amount (that is in the account), and defaulting on the loan? Would I (and the assets I have deposited) be at risk?

and again.....

some measure of risk that the spouse will not clean out the account.

do you not think separate bank accounts would be the way to go? You could arrange periodic money transfers to her account to cover any expenses she may have whilst maintaining a degree of control.

There is always the question of what liability you, as spouse, would have for any loan she may default on but how easy would be for her to secure a loan as you don't have a house yet?

[2008bangkok]

I have to say "no", I have never encountered this situation.

But if I had said "yes", so what? Is there something you want me to say? Would my actions be relevant to your situation?? Personally I would have told the Monk to catch his wallet as I threw it in the opposite direction. Do I care what you would have done?? Not the least bit.

Just to note this is the OP's helpful anwser to another post...

[thaihome]

I think you have bigger issues then worry about a bit of money in joint account in Thailand. It sounds to me like your relationship is not one you could say was based on mutual trust.

The practically of the your situation is your wife will probably be able to withdraw money without you there, but you wouldn’t be able to without your wife.

TH

[Gumballl]

For those who were able to deduce that my relationship is not 100%, you are correct. The money I need to deposit is so that my wife will agree to return to the US... with our two children. Essentially she is holding them for ransom.

<deleted> am I supposed to do? Well, if I play hard-ball, she won't give a cr*p, and in the process she will lose her visa (to enter the US). The children of course will remain in the f*ckhole we jokingly call LOS.

Alternatively, I could use the money to build a house, or slap it in the bank (under her name), and I bet I will still lose.

What really at stake here is 2 children. Should I consider them "casualties of war"??

Anyhow, I want to accept the word of my wife that she will return if I deposit the money, but deep down I feel this money will be lost to... and pick your favourite... inflation, stupidity, a sub-standard house that will never increase in value.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Gumballl

[imaneggspurt]

Never have,never would,.

[Chaimai]

What really at stake here is 2 children. Should I consider them "casualties of war"??

Regrettably, - collateral damage in this case.

I think you have lost your wife and your children:-

(a) If wife is blackmailing now, she will do so again. Tell her you will deposit funds in a bank account in her name in the States once she returns. It won't happen

( This would be a relationship 'finisher' for me and I think I would have to accept the loss of wife and children, I would try not to lose my money as well - especially when I am showing no affinity/affection for Thailand as well.

[Brigante7]

Where were they born?

Do they have US passports?

Can you not travel to Thailand and bring them home?

[Gumballl]

Where were they born?

Do they have US passports?

Can you not travel to Thailand and bring them home?

One child was born in Thailand, the other in the US. Both have dual-citizenship, though the younger one only has a US passport; the older child has both Thai and US passport.

I am in Thailand right now... in the middle of nowhere. It is not like I am able to whisk the kids away at a moments notice. Plus the mother has legal rights too. As a foreigner in Thailand, I probably have none.

[Gumballl]

What really at stake here is 2 children. Should I consider them "casualties of war"??

Regrettably, - collateral damage in this case.

I think you have lost your wife and your children:-

(a) If wife is blackmailing now, she will do so again. Tell her you will deposit funds in a bank account in her name in the States once she returns. It won't happen

( This would be a relationship 'finisher' for me and I think I would have to accept the loss of wife and children, I would try not to lose my money as well - especially when I am showing no affinity/affection for Thailand as well.

The wife sees the money I have as belonging to me, as opposed to her and myself. So basically she will not board a plane with the promise to receive money later.

I have offered her money in a bank account in the US that is in my name... no joy.

Then I tried offering her the money in an account in the US in her name only... no joy.

Then I tried the joint account here in Thailand... apparently no joy there either.

Well now it looks like I am at an impasse. Either gamble with the money ($25K), or walk away. If my children were older, I probably would consider a legal recourse to get custody. But at their young age, there is no way I would be able to assist them with the transition away from their mother.

Well it looks like this thread has strayed away from the forum topic. No doubt it will be moved soon.

[Chaimai]

I am in Thailand right now... in the middle of nowhere. It is not like I am able to whisk the kids away at a moments notice. Plus the mother has legal rights too. As a foreigner in Thailand, I probably have none.

I am just recapping here.

Am I right in assuming that you have already signed up to the fixed deposit and handed over the cash ?

Impertinent to ask and I would understand if you did not answer but, how much ?

Secondly, (if my assumption is right) WHY ? did you commit to the deposit in the knowledge that the relationship was rocky (your words, "not 100%") and you knew this was blatant blackmail.

I know I am just a smart @rse on the outside looking in but, based on the facts so far, I would expend my effort on recovering what I could of that deposit - and that will take some neat footwork with the Mrs in a bank somewhere in Nakhon Nowhere and them all being Thais. I am not being a mercenary b@stard but I think the reality appears to be that are losing/have lost your wife and children, sorry.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Chaimai

[Gumballl]

I am in Thailand right now... in the middle of nowhere. It is not like I am able to whisk the kids away at a moments notice. Plus the mother has legal rights too. As a foreigner in Thailand, I probably have none.

I am just recapping here.

Am I right in assuming that you have already signed up to the fixed deposit and handed over the cash ?

Impertinent to ask and I would understand if you did not answer but, how much ?

Secondly, (if my assumption is right) WHY ? did you commit to the deposit in the knowledge that the relationship was rocky (your words, "not 100%") and you knew this was blatant blackmail.

I know I am just a smart @rse on the outside looking in but, based on the facts so far, I would expend my effort on recovering what I could of that deposit - and that will take some neat footwork with the Mrs in a bank somewhere in Nakhon Nowhere and them all being Thais. I am not being a mercenary b@stard but I think the reality appears to be that are losing/have lost your wife and children, sorry.

The money has not been given/deposited yet, but yes, the account has been set up with the minimum initial deposit of 2000 baht. Btw, the amount my wife wants is not that substantial ($25K), but it is the principle of the matter that bugs me. Also my wife's mood swings; some days she is really nice, others she is like a b*tch. Maybe she is bi-polar? Maybe a quick visit to the doctor will turn her into a "Mr. Hyde". Then I will really be screwed.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Gumballl

[Chaimai]

The money has not been given/deposited yet, but yes, the account has been set up with the minimum initial deposit of 2000 baht. Btw, the amount my wife wants is not that substantial ($25K), but it is the principle of the matter that bugs me. Also my wife's mood swings; some days she is really nice, others she is like a b*tch. Maybe she is bi-polar? Maybe a quick visit to the doctor will turn her into a "Mr. Hyde". Then I will really be screwed.

US$25,000 is more than enough to lose (that's 1,000,000 Baht if the rate ever gets to 40 )

Keep your money and thereby retain some control. Your wife has said "no" to 2 suggestions - you say "no" to this one.

(strange to have a minimum deposit of 2,000 on a fixed term deposit - you can't usually add to fixed rate deposits - I accept I may have missed something)

Edited October 1, 2008 by Chaimai

[RetireSoon]

It sounds a very tough situation, can I ask how old are you and your wife ?

In these situations I would go with my gut instinct, you know your wife and the lay of the land, Its quite sad to read that many westerners dont want to bring a child up in Los. Yet as a single adult with finance its a great place to visist and I would imagine live.

Hope you get the best course of events through this difficult time.

[2008bangkok]

If my missus was being like that and she wanted 25k and using the childern as bait i would make sure that the only way she would get it was by giving me custody of them otherwise once its 25 then it might be another 25 and another etc

[Issanman]

For those who were able to deduce that my relationship is not 100%, you are correct. The money I need to deposit is so that my wife will agree to return to the US... with our two children. Essentially she is holding them for ransom.

<deleted> am I supposed to do? Well, if I play hard-ball, she won't give a cr*p, and in the process she will lose her visa (to enter the US). The children of course will remain in the f*ckhole we jokingly call LOS.

Alternatively, I could use the money to build a house, or slap it in the bank (under her name), and I bet I will still lose.

What really at stake here is 2 children. Should I consider them "casualties of war"??

Anyhow, I want to accept the word of my wife that she will return if I deposit the money, but deep down I feel this money will be lost to... and pick your favourite... inflation, stupidity, a sub-standard house that will never increase in value.

"Parental Kidnapping is not a crime in Thailand and Thai authorities will not issue a warrant or become involved should one parent take a child without the other parent's authorization. The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction cannot be invoked if a child is taken from the United States to Thailand, or vice versa, by one parent against the wishes of the other parent or in violation of a U.S. custody order."

I copied and pasted this from a US Department of State web site.

Please view this page here:

http://travel.state.gov/family/abduction/c...ountry_528.html

Issanman

[mangostays]

For those who were able to deduce that my relationship is not 100%, you are correct. The money I need to deposit is so that my wife will agree to return to the US... with our two children. Essentially she is holding them for ransom.

<deleted> am I supposed to do? Well, if I play hard-ball, she won't give a cr*p, and in the process she will lose her visa (to enter the US). The children of course will remain in the f*ckhole we jokingly call LOS.

Alternatively, I could use the money to build a house, or slap it in the bank (under her name), and I bet I will still lose.

What really at stake here is 2 children. Should I consider them "casualties of war"??

Anyhow, I want to accept the word of my wife that she will return if I deposit the money, but deep down I feel this money will be lost to... and pick your favourite... inflation, stupidity, a sub-standard house that will never increase in value.

"Parental Kidnapping is not a crime in Thailand and Thai authorities will not issue a warrant or become involved should one parent take a child without the other parent's authorization. The Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction cannot be invoked if a child is taken from the United States to Thailand, or vice versa, by one parent against the wishes of the other parent or in violation of a U.S. custody order."

I copied and pasted this from a US Department of State web site.

Please view this page here:

http://travel.state.gov/family/abduction/c...ountry_528.html

Issanman

Mate,

Your wife is being a bitch, and she knows it.

Don't give in to her and play her at her own game. I know you think you'll lose everything if you confront her but you wont, and at the end of the day she'll respect you more for it.

Tell her you want a divorce and are taking her to court over custody of the kids.

She'll panic and probably yield, because without you she's got squat, and she knows this.

If she rolls over then get the family (wife included) over to the states ASAP and then my friend, you are firmly sitting in the drivers seat.

Do not waste money on a house in a country you obviously hate living in and do not transfere 25K into a bank account she has total control over and will obviously wife clean.

Promise her the world in the US, a house, a flash car for her parents, a million dollars that requires the signitures of her and the kids to release the funds. Anything, just to lever the stupid woman out of her safe haven, and your kids into a proper system of stability and proper education.

Oh, and once she's in the US, cut her off, send the kids to your parents and tell the authorities she's been working the streets.

[milliedamm]

I would not trust a Thai woman with access to my bank account while I was out of the country! Holy shit.

[Chaimai]

Your wife is being a bitch, and she knows it.

Don't give in to her and play her at her own game. I know you think you'll lose everything if you confront her but you wont, and at the end of the day she'll respect you more for it.

Tell her you want a divorce and are taking her to court over custody of the kids.

She'll panic and probably yield, because without you she's got squat, and she knows this.

If she rolls over then get the family (wife included) over to the states ASAP and then my friend, you are firmly sitting in the drivers seat.

Do not waste money on a house in a country you obviously hate living in and do not transfere 25K into a bank account she has total control over and will obviously wife clean.

Promise her the world in the US, a house, a flash car for her parents, a million dollars that requires the signitures of her and the kids to release the funds. Anything, just to lever the stupid woman out of her safe haven, and your kids into a proper system of stability and proper education.

Oh, and once she's in the US, cut her off, send the kids to your parents and tell the authorities she's been working the streets.

Whilst the wording is slightly more brutal than my earlier offering, I have to say that the advice is pretty much spot on.

If everything looks like being lost, you have nothing to lose. Playing hardball may just result in the outcome that mangostays has described.

[meandwi]

Love can not exist without trust and forgiveness.

I trust my wife, and she trusts me, She not perfect, but either am I, we forgive each other for our faults, and our love grows stronger each and every day.

Relationships are not based on a 50/50%. But on both people giving 110% to each other.

I call it a disease of the I.me.my's. ( I...want the children!), (They belong to...ME!), (It is MY money!).

When you take a paintbrush and paint a circle on the floor around you. you find only yourself in the center. Step out of the circle and into the life of your family.

Don't ruin it. Ask for forgiveness, show her some trust by closeing the account. Open a new one in both your names so she can provide for your children. Don't ask for anything in return.

meandwi

[Canada]

Love can not exist without trust and forgiveness.

I trust my wife, and she trusts me, She not perfect, but either am I, we forgive each other for our faults, and our love grows stronger each and every day.

Relationships are not based on a 50/50%. But on both people giving 110% to each other.

I call it a disease of the I.me.my's. ( I...want the children!), (They belong to...ME!), (It is MY money!).

When you take a paintbrush and paint a circle on the floor around you. you find only yourself in the center. Step out of the circle and into the life of your family.

Don't ruin it. Ask for forgiveness, show her some trust by closeing the account. Open a new one in both your names so she can provide for your children. Don't ask for anything in return.

meandwi

A dead relationship is a dead realtionship. If you want to continue to be a doormat, follow this guys advice. Sorry to be so blunt....both of you.

[aurelius]

Returning to some of the earlier questions:

A BBL fixed account can be deposited to using an ATM card, but not withdrawn from.

There is an alternative type of "joint" status which is EITHER/OR signatures (i.e. either you or her). In this case, both of you have the right to take all funds from the account, even close it, and there is no 50:50 aspect to it at all. This type of signing means that you implicitly agree to everything she does.

Remember that even if its a fixed account, the term can be broken tomorrow by any party any EITHER/OR so there are no guarantees the funds will stay there til the end of the term.

To use the account as collateral for a loan under your existing BOTH signatures condition would require both of you to sign (safer for you). If there is no formal contract to use the funds as collateral, then she can only use the account to demonstrate how wealthy she is, but not to establish a legal claim on the funds. however i would think that in the grey market there would be some who would exercise social pressure to asset a claim on the funds - such as taking physical possession of the passbook and then not returning it unless at the same time you and her signed over the funds - if she had wracked up a large debt or something.

If the funds are gone before you were in a divorce process, these funds would not be considered part of the divorce settlement. Gone would be gone.

Your best form of protection comes from keeping the account as it is now. If you need her to access to amount of cash on a more regular basis then open another savings account in your name and give her the ATM card. I suggest this:

- open your own saving a/c for your personal pool of funds

- open a second saving a/c and give her the atm card

- open internet banking so you can make transfers from anywhere from your a/c to "hers" and monitor what is left in the account she uses

- you can also set up to see your fixed a/c in internet banking, but because she's a joint signatory on that account you'll have to convince her to allow that.

If you were to open an a/c for her in her name, then you cannot see it in internet banking, so the method I suggest gives you a little more visibility.

Good Luck