Marriage Trouble And Visa Concern

[sandokan]

Hi guys, I have a couple of questions for you, a friend of mine, an European woman, is living here in Thailand in virtue of a Dependent Visa obtained due to the Retirement status of her Husband. Her husband approximately 1 year ago left her and is now living with a young Thai Woman, he bought a Guest House and apparently he's waiting for a WP to be issued by labour department . Unfortunately they are not in good relationship right now, and she is very concerned about her Visa. Since under the annual extension for retirement reason, it is not possible work and obtain a work permit, what is the possible scenario in this case? Let's say, if her husband has renounced to his Extension and is now holding a Non Immigrant B, what happen to the dependent visa of her wife? She has told me that her Visa is still valid until May 09, are we sure about it? Let's now take a future scenario, where he has obtained a new year extension in virtue of his new status of ''Business man''... in this case, can she still apply for a Dependant Visa? Can he refuse to apply for a dependant although they are legally married? Any suggestion is very much appreciated. Thanks guys for your help

[Mario2008]

They are not living together, meaning that in all likely hood her permission to stay ended when he left her as the purpose of her visa is to allow her to stay with her husband. Of course there is small risk in immigration finding out, but that is another matter. She has to get her own visa as soon as possible.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf see 7.18.

Under normal circumstances if the husband seeks an extension based on extension she would still qualify for a extension of stay as a dependend.

Edit: as said in this case the wife doesn't qualify as the marriage is not factual, sice they don't live together.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Mario2008

[ubonjoe]

This is one I haven't seen before.

I would say the big problem will arise when her current visa extension runs out because it will take his cooperation to get a new extension. Lots of legal points in all this.

He may not be getting a new visa type because he can get a work permit on his non-o. If he agrees she can get a dependent visa on his non-b visa if he changes to that type.

Is she able to get a retirement visa on her own? Does she want to remain in Thailand?

I think it will require a lawyer help to sort all this out.

I am sure others will be on here with more advise and suggestions.

Edit: mario2008 got his reply in while I was doing mine. I think he meant 7.19 not 7.18.

Edited October 6, 2008 by ubonjoe

[Mario2008]

Sorry, 7.18 should be 7.19, but doesn't change anything I have said.

Her permission of stay ended the moment her husband moved in with his Thai girlfriend as the there must be a legal marriage and a factual marriage, in essence they must be living together. She is now on overstay and illegaly in the country.

[sandokan]

Thank you both guys, I precise that she is still living in the house, I would say a semi-castle, they have bought together, he's out and living with his lover in this new Guest House he bought.

I understand what the law says in this case ''In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be de jure (legitimate) and de facto'', nevertheless I believe that if nobody goes to report this, it will be just fine.

Her husband today paid her a visit and he told her that his visa is expiring this month, how the heck is possible?

She has told me that the last time she has been to Europe for her father's funeral, she has forgotten to apply for a re-entry visa, or better she did not know she supposed to do that.

Of course you are aware that once she got back to Thailand the immigration at the airport gave her just 30 days, later on she went to the immigration office and they fixed it... do you think is possible that they gave her an independent Visa extension since I don't think she's meeting the financial requirements?

I asked her to post here herself, I hope she will able to give you further details, I'm confused as well guys.

Thanks.

[gabyortolani]

Sorry, 7.18 should be 7.19, but doesn't change anything I have said.

Her permission of stay ended the moment her husband moved in with his Thai girlfriend as the there must be a legal marriage and a factual marriage, in essence they must be living together. She is now on overstay and illegaly in the country.

it's me gaby the person concerned...i call my lawyer just right now and he told me when i applied for the retirement visa i had everything fine (800 000 bath and so on) and i am over 50...so my visa is still correct until may 2009...after this i can ask a dependant visa from my husband's work permit

[ubonjoe]

Sorry, 7.18 should be 7.19, but doesn't change anything I have said.

Her permission of stay ended the moment her husband moved in with his Thai girlfriend as the there must be a legal marriage and a factual marriage, in essence they must be living together. She is now on overstay and illegaly in the country

I was not disputing what you said merely correcting a minor error.

But have a heart. You are going to have the poor woman thinking the police could show up at any time.

I don't know the legalities of all this and suggested a lawyer.

One thing I thought of though is the ninty day reports if they come in with different addresses this coulld raise a red flag. I don't know if immigration links the two visa estensions together in their computer system or not.

[gabyortolani]

Sorry, 7.18 should be 7.19, but doesn't change anything I have said.

Her permission of stay ended the moment her husband moved in with his Thai girlfriend as the there must be a legal marriage and a factual marriage, in essence they must be living together. She is now on overstay and illegaly in the country

I was not disputing what you said merely correcting a minor error.

But have a heart. You are going to have the poor woman thinking the police could show up at any time.

I don't know the legalities of all this and suggested a lawyer.

One thing I thought of though is the ninty day reports if they come in with different addresses this coulld raise a red flag. I don't know if immigration links the two visa estensions together in their computer system or not.

what a mess.....his adress is still here in our villa...he don't ask divorce...he don't live with me now for one year...but nobody cares about this...

[Gary A]

You say you are over fifty and have the 800,000 baht. You are entitled to a retirement visa on your own merit and he will no longer have anything to do with your visa, married or not. Having no visa worries will allow you to deal with the other ugly issue.

[sandokan]

I just received an email, she called her legal advisor and now the situation is more clear, she got a brand new extension independently from her husband, apparently at that time she used the 800K on her husband personal account, I asked her how is possible, since those money supposed to be on her account and not her husband one, the 800k on her husband account are the money for his retirement visa

Hi Gaby I saw your posts, in order to be helped by these fellow friends you have to be very clear, my understanding is that right now you have 2 independent retirement visas, his one is expiring, your one not.

Your concern is now after May 09, this is the issue, correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers

[sandokan]

You say you are over fifty and have the 800,000 baht. You are entitled to a retirement visa on your own merit and he will no longer have anything to do with your visa, married or not. Having no visa worries will allow you to deal with the other ugly issue.

He used those money to build up the Guest house, no more money after May 09

[ubonjoe]

what a mess.....his adress is still here in our villa...he don't ask divorce...he don't live with me now for one year...but nobody cares about this...

I can understand your distress. I just can't give you any easy answers.

If it's been that long and he is still using the same address as you it might not be a problem for awhile. But eventually you two have to get the matter sorted out. I am sure yours is not the first case of this and certainly not amongst Thai's. That might be one thing that will help with you not being bothered by immigration unless he was to make a problem. A lot of Thai's have a different way of thinking about this than most westerners do.

I still think you should consult with a lawyer in particular one that has some knowledge of the law in your home country or can contact one there to consult as well as the local laws.

Joe

[Mario2008]

Legaly it is as I said, in reality immigration will not notice, unless someone tells them, as I mentioned in my earlier posting.

If you can just get a retirement visa for yourself, with 800,000 at a bank. Your posting suggest you are already on your own retirement visa. If so, keep it that way.In the end it is the safest solution to have your own extension of stay, independent of someone else. As a dependent you would for instance also lose your right to stay when your husband dies as it is connected to his right to stay in Thailand. When his right is gone, so is yours.

Ubonjoe, I replied about the mistaken point while you corrected the error. Didn't see that one and fine if someone corrects an error. As long as the person gets the right information.

[astral]

I would not worry too much until the visa renewal comes up.

Her extension is based on 800K, not dependence on the husband.

However in May 09 she will have to find her own 800K and possibly show it has been in the

bank for 3 months in advance.

[ubonjoe]

I see that a lot of information has changed while I was doing my last reply. I have IPstar and it did one of its drop out tricks. It appears that you are in a situation where you don't have any concern until May of next year. I see that you are living in a house that you all bought. I assume you bought it by setting up a company to do the purchase of the house. Is your name on the documents for the house. Do you want to stay in Thailand beyond next May.

If yes then the only way may be to sell the house and put the money in the bank to get another extension.

[astral]

If yes then the only way may be to sell the house and put the money in the bank to get another extension.

Or use the house to borrow the 800K from a bank?

[sandokan]

I see that a lot of information has changed while I was doing my last reply. I have IPstar and it did one of its drop out tricks. It appears that you are in a situation where you don't have any concern until May of next year. I see that you are living in a house that you all bought. I assume you bought it by setting up a company to do the purchase of the house. Is your name on the documents for the house. Do you want to stay in Thailand beyond next May.

If yes then the only way may be to sell the house and put the money in the bank to get another extension.

You are right ubonjoe, a lot of things changed during this conversation, the house is in fact for sale, but we are talking of a very big property, it is not that easy selling it.

In addition she has told me that her husband used a trick and she signed blank documents in case her precocious death and he used those while she is alive, therefore I believe that right now she got just few of her original shares in this company, i.e. it is possible that if he eventually will sell the house she will get nada de nada!

After May it is indeed a problem.

Edited October 6, 2008 by sandokan

[ubonjoe]

I am sure that she has to sign the paper work for the house sale. If so then she has to make sure she gets her fair cut before she signs the papers. Again she needs a lawyer. There was a mention of a lawyer previously. Is he one that they have both used before if so she should get a different one.

Edited October 6, 2008 by ubonjoe

[sandokan]

Thanks all folks!!!

[gabyortolani]

I am sure that she has to sign the paper work for the house sale. If so then she has to make sure she gets her fair cut before she signs the papers. Again she needs a lawyer. There was a mention of a lawyer previously. Is he one that they have both used before if so she should get a different one.

thanks a lot for your help...unfortunately it is my husband's lawyer...who suggest to him to take away all my shares, i.e. a bastard....i have only a few percent....left...

this is so my thailand dream together with my dear husband...for a peaceful retirement...i left a good job in europe (i am translator) to follow him in thiscountry.....thank him so much for all this mess

[gabyortolani]

I am sure that she has to sign the paper work for the house sale. If so then she has to make sure she gets her fair cut before she signs the papers. Again she needs a lawyer. There was a mention of a lawyer previously. Is he one that they have both used before if so she should get a different one.

you are right...i have to sign the papers if we sell the house....in any way it is not for tomorrow that we can sell this house

[ubonjoe]

I am sure that she has to sign the paper work for the house sale. If so then she has to make sure she gets her fair cut before she signs the papers. Again she needs a lawyer. There was a mention of a lawyer previously. Is he one that they have both used before if so she should get a different one.

you are right...i have to sign the papers if we sell the house....in any way it is not for tomorrow that we can sell this house

I understand the house situation. When it does come time to sign the papers you have a tremendous amount of leverage to use on him. Do find your own lawyer.