Alcohol Ban

[jdinasia]

Not the greatest supporting argument Mobi, particularly considering bars are closed in the Philippines on religious holidays which such as Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Christmas day.

But, hey, those aren't particularly popular public holidays, are they?

Well I'm doing my best to stem the tide of moralistic zeal that seems to be engulfing this thread

At least they are open 24/7 on all the other days.

I wonder if Angeles City is exempt from these rules?

If you can't find a drink 24/7 in Pattaya even on public holidays then you must already be blind drunk

Moralistic zeal?

People throw 'moral' around as if it were a bad thing ... but my basis for not crying about this has nothing to do with 'morals' or even 'mores'

(which is certainly more to the point here than morals since individuals have morals and societies have mores)

It is simply not true that the alcohol ban has affected tourism in Thailand to any noticeable degree, even under Thaksin's reign when things were more strictly enforced tourism numbers did not drop, the fact that the neo-Thaksin regime right now is pandering to upcountry folks by promising a return of old-time mores to society (the same as in Thaksin 1 and 2) is no surprise ....

alas there are a few yobbos that won't be back to haunt the gogo bars in Pattaya or Patong ... they will be replaced by more and more people that don't think that the dollar should change the nature of local life in other countries (feel free to sub AUD or GBP for 'dollar')

[bendix]

You know, it's the damndest thing.

Usually a thread with lots of stuff from me in is kinda interesting, but even MY contributions to this thread have failed to make this discussion the slightest bit interesting. I think it's because I don't really believe what I'm saying.

To provide (the second) second Oscar Wilde quote in this thread . . . . "someone in this room is boring me, and I fear it might be myself."

Edited October 7, 2008 by bendix

[bkkjames]

Not the greatest supporting argument Mobi, particularly considering bars are closed in the Philippines on religious holidays which such as Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Christmas day.

But, hey, those aren't particularly popular public holidays, are they?

Well I'm doing my best to stem the tide of moralistic zeal that seems to be engulfing this thread

At least they are open 24/7 on all the other days.

I wonder if Angeles City is exempt from these rules?

If you can't find a drink 24/7 in Pattaya even on public holidays then you must already be blind drunk

Moralistic zeal?

People throw 'moral' around as if it were a bad thing ... but my basis for not crying about this has nothing to do with 'morals' or even 'mores'

(which is certainly more to the point here than morals since individuals have morals and societies have mores)

It is simply not true that the alcohol ban has affected tourism in Thailand to any noticeable degree, even under Thaksin's reign when things were more strictly enforced tourism numbers did not drop, the fact that the neo-Thaksin regime right now is pandering to upcountry folks by promising a return of old-time mores to society (the same as in Thaksin 1 and 2) is no surprise ....

alas there are a few yobbos that won't be back to haunt the gogo bars in Pattaya or Patong ... they will be replaced by more and more people that don't think that the dollar should change the nature of local life in other countries (feel free to sub AUD or GBP for 'dollar')

Your first point about Mr T being more strickly enforced is wrong. Yes we maybe had to close a bit earlier but booze wasn't being banned on Songkran or New Years (as is proposed). Nevermind the recent clampdown on smoking.

Re: your second paragraph is utter nonesense, unless of course you think Mr. T's extended vacation in England has changed local society in those parts in a better way than the average visitor to a bar in Pats?

Call it mores, morals, morels or just plain moronic...singular or plural or both, you do the math, either way the less fun Thailand becomes the less attractive it becomes, and let's face, all those high high yield visitors are not coming for Koo's, koruption and early early Klosing times.

We are not a Grade A destination for multi millionaires. Get over it.

[Mobi]

Moralistic zeal?

People throw 'moral' around as if it were a bad thing ... but my basis for not crying about this has nothing to do with 'morals' or even 'mores'

(which is certainly more to the point here than morals since individuals have morals and societies have mores)

It is simply not true that the alcohol ban has affected tourism in Thailand to any noticeable degree, even under Thaksin's reign when things were more strictly enforced tourism numbers did not drop, the fact that the neo-Thaksin regime right now is pandering to upcountry folks by promising a return of old-time mores to society (the same as in Thaksin 1 and 2) is no surprise ....

alas there are a few yobbos that won't be back to haunt the gogo bars in Pattaya or Patong ... they will be replaced by more and more people that don't think that the dollar should change the nature of local life in other countries (feel free to sub AUD or GBP for 'dollar')

My, My... anyone would think we were discussing the death penalty.

You really make me smile with your outrage on whether or not banning alcohol affects the number of tourists.

And we can see your reforming, clean up zeal coming to the fore now.

Thank God we're NOT discussing the death penalty...

Maybe Immigration should have a questionnaire for arriving tourists , asking them:

"Do you think that the dollar should change the nature of local life in other countries?"

If they answer "yes", they can be deported on the next plane.

Have another Chang

[jdinasia]

Go back to then Dr Pol Lt Col was in office and the alcohol bans were proposed then ... they never happened. It is just grandstanding.

That being said ... Thailand IS a destination for multi-millionaires, just not as many as places that are CLOSER to them.

Morals ... a personal thing

Mores .. a societal thing (or a perception of how people think a society will react)

again .... shortened bar hours .. more alcohol free days etc did not affect tourism in the past. Thailand MAY lose a few .. they will easily be replaced. hel_l the millionaires from Japan that just come for Golf spend more in a day than the average Pattaya football hooligan spends in 2 weeks!

Mobi ----- you are reading things that have not been written I am not for an increase in alcohol free days, I am just not opposed to it.

BTW --- I have not had a Chang in 4 years .. that shit is NASTY! I might go out for a Leo or a Heineken tonight (or far more likely a single-malt neat.)

Edited October 7, 2008 by jdinasia

[bkkjames]

Go back to then Dr Pol Lt Col was in office and the alcohol bans were proposed then ... they never happened. It is just grandstanding.

That being said ... Thailand IS a destination for multi-millionaires, just not as many as places that are CLOSER to them.

Morals ... a personal thing

Mores .. a societal thing (or a perception of how people think a society will react)

again .... shortened bar hours .. more alcohol free days etc did not affect tourism in the past. Thailand MAY lose a few .. they will easily be replaced. hel_l the millionaires from Japan that just come for Golf spend more in a day than the average Pattaya football hooligan spends in 2 weeks!

You must be f_king someone from TAT? If not, you should.

[jdinasia]

Go back to then Dr Pol Lt Col was in office and the alcohol bans were proposed then ... they never happened. It is just grandstanding.

That being said ... Thailand IS a destination for multi-millionaires, just not as many as places that are CLOSER to them.

Morals ... a personal thing

Mores .. a societal thing (or a perception of how people think a society will react)

again .... shortened bar hours .. more alcohol free days etc did not affect tourism in the past. Thailand MAY lose a few .. they will easily be replaced. hel_l the millionaires from Japan that just come for Golf spend more in a day than the average Pattaya football hooligan spends in 2 weeks!

You must be f_king someone from TAT? If not, you should.

Brilliant response!

[Mobi]

You know, it's the damndest thing.

Usually a thread with lots of stuff from me in is kinda interesting, but even MY contributions to this thread have failed to make this discussion the slightest bit interesting. I think it's because I don't really believe what I'm saying.

To provide (the second) second Oscar Wilde quote in this thread . . . . "someone in this room is boring me, and I fear it might be myself."

Well, I'm doing my best, but I seem to be out of practice.

I suppose I could have suggested that on religious holidays in the Philipines you always make do with communion wine, but didn't bother.....

JD, strangely enough I was going to suggest you offer your "services" to TAT , but thought I'd wait a while. Now bkkjames has beat me to it

Also JD, I take it you do not agree with the following (from "Pattaya Today")

"MUCH has been written in the press about the current poor state of Thailand's tourism industry and, without doubt, this is the lowest I have ever seen tourist numbers in Pattaya. Many factors have contributed to the situation, not the least of which are high oil prices, world stock market woes and the Thai political turmoil. But there are other long term factors involved. Many readers will know there is an insidious move by meddling moralists to change Pattaya from what it is into something it is not. These myopic do-gooders want to remove the bars and associated adult entertainment and turn Pattaya into a 'family' destination. I have a lot of things to say to these people, most of which is unprintable, but my main argument is their grandiose scheme will fail.

As it stands, Pattaya is a unique city which has evolved according to the law of supply and demand. High visitor numbers attest there is a demand for such a place so why would any rational person want to go to the trouble and expense of transforming it into something it is not? Why would families be attracted to Pattaya when there are already hundreds of alternative places up and running? There are thousands of better beaches in Thailand and hundreds of 'family' orientated resorts in other parts of the country. If all tourists want out of their holiday is to lounge on a nice beach while their rug-rats play in the sand they can go to places like Phuket or Koh Samui.

And, in the meantime, what would happen to Pattaya? Visitors would quickly realize that sitting on a lesser quality beach is not all it's cracked up to be. Once they stopped coming, Pattaya's economy would be left in ruin. My solution is simple; leave Pattaya the way it is and advertise the other existing resorts as family destinations. Keep Pattaya for the tourists who appreciate the kind of nightlife it currently offers. Concentrate law enforcement efforts on cleaning up street crime, muggings and drug-related offences and leave the bars alone."

BTW I'm not a Chang drinker myself - but only because it's so bloody strong. It has a very nice taste, but has the potential to turn even mild mannered Mobi into a raving hooligan, if I'm not careful

Have a nice single malt, then

Edited October 7, 2008 by Mobi

[bendix]

I'm not sure why I'm posting this. I must be bored to get into a discussion with someone who is using an illiterate rave from Pattaya Today to shore up their argument, but - hey - what the heck?

PATTAYA TODAY? Are you kidding me? It's written by the very idiots some of us despise and don't want in Thailand. Where can I begin to start pulling that quote apart? On the one hand it's the worst tourist season ever, on the other Pattaya attracts huge amounts of tourists because of what it has been allowed to become. Come on! You can't have it both ways, people. Either it's busy cos of beer and sex, or it's empty because beer and sex are no longer the be-and-all of ALL tourists.

Pattaya is dying not JUST because of high oil prices and a strong baht. It's dying also because it is no longer the 1970s and 1980s and sex-tourists are starting to be displaced by real tourists. And long may it continue.

And to go back to the point of the thread . . . it is the new breed of real tourists who don't give a toss about the occasional day of no beer. Sadly, those silent majority don't post on this forum; the biggest noise is made by the belligerent ghouls with cemented minds rooted in football, beer and cheap girls.

(reference check, anyone?)

Edited October 7, 2008 by bendix

[bkkjames]

I'm not sure why I'm posting this. I must be bored to get into a discussion with someone who is using an illiterate rave from Pattaya Today to shore up their argument, but - hey - what the heck?

PATTAYA TODAY? Are you kidding me? It's written by the very idiots some of us despise and don't want in Thailand. Where can I begin to start pulling that quote apart? On the one hand it's the worst tourist season ever, on the other Pattaya attracts huge amounts of tourists because of what it has been allowed to become. Come on! You can't have it both ways, people. Either it's busy cos of beer and sex, or it's empty because beer and sex are no longer the be-and-all of ALL tourists.

Pattaya is dying not JUST because of high oil prices and a strong baht. It's dying also because it is no longer the 1970s and 1980s and sex-tourists are starting to be displaced by real tourists. And long may it continue.

And to go back to the point of the thread . . . it is the new breed of real tourists who don't give a toss about the occasional day of no beer. Sadly, those silent majority don't post on this forum; the biggest noise is made by the belligerent ghouls with cemented minds rooted in football, beer and cheap girls.

(reference check, anyone?)

The new breed or real tourists...hmm is that the 18-21 year old single japanese female that spends all day with a book in one hand and a water bottle in the other? Big spenders, the new breed are.

I am not sure where you ref this new breed from, but unless you are referring to the droves of Russians in Pattaya, and not the afforementioned SingJapGals, I suggest you put down your book and join me for a beer at 530pm.!!

[bendix]

would love to, but gotta get home to the missus.

you know how it is . . . .

[jdinasia]

Mobi ---- great article about WHY Pattaya is dying ... strangely not a single reference to the alcohol ban and THAT is the topic here, not why Pattaya should be allowed to die or at least to clean up! ... just that it is a crappy town that is for the most part a blight on society

[zorro1]

I'm not sure why I'm posting this. I must be bored to get into a discussion with someone who is using an illiterate rave from Pattaya Today to shore up their argument, but - hey - what the heck?

PATTAYA TODAY? Are you kidding me? It's written by the very idiots some of us despise and don't want in Thailand. Where can I begin to start pulling that quote apart? On the one hand it's the worst tourist season ever, on the other Pattaya attracts huge amounts of tourists because of what it has been allowed to become. Come on! You can't have it both ways, people. Either it's busy cos of beer and sex, or it's empty because beer and sex are no longer the be-and-all of ALL tourists.

Pattaya is dying not JUST because of high oil prices and a strong baht. It's dying also because it is no longer the 1970s and 1980s and sex-tourists are starting to be displaced by real tourists. And long may it continue.

And to go back to the point of the thread . . . it is the new breed of real tourists who don't give a toss about the occasional day of no beer. Sadly, those silent majority don't post on this forum; the biggest noise is made by the belligerent ghouls with cemented minds rooted in football, beer and cheap girls.

(reference check, anyone?)

The last few words were beautifully written.

[jdinasia]

Remember when it used to be cheap beer too!?

[Mobi]

I'm not sure why I'm posting this. I must be bored to get into a discussion with someone who is using an illiterate rave from Pattaya Today to shore up their argument, but - hey - what the heck?

PATTAYA TODAY? Are you kidding me? It's written by the very idiots some of us despise and don't want in Thailand. Where can I begin to start pulling that quote apart? On the one hand it's the worst tourist season ever, on the other Pattaya attracts huge amounts of tourists because of what it has been allowed to become. Come on! You can't have it both ways, people. Either it's busy cos of beer and sex, or it's empty because beer and sex are no longer the be-and-all of ALL tourists.

Pattaya is dying not JUST because of high oil prices and a strong baht. It's dying also because it is no longer the 1970s and 1980s and sex-tourists are starting to be displaced by real tourists. And long may it continue.

And to go back to the point of the thread . . . it is the new breed of real tourists who don't give a toss about the occasional day of no beer. Sadly, those silent majority don't post on this forum; the biggest noise is made by the belligerent ghouls with cemented minds rooted in football, beer and cheap girls.

(reference check, anyone?)

The new breed or real tourists...hmm is that the 18-21 year old single japanese female that spends all day with a book in one hand and a water bottle in the other? Big spenders, the new breed are.

I am not sure where you ref this new breed from, but unless you are referring to the droves of Russians in Pattaya, and not the afforementioned SingJapGals, I suggest you put down your book and join me for a beer at 530pm.!!

Apparently even the Russians have cancelled out.

Glad to see you're getting hot under the collar Bendix. I thought that little article might do the trick.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you located in Hua Hin these days?

So that makes you an expert on Pattaya, or is that you don't want the reputation of your chosen retirement country dragged through the mud by all the seedy stuff that goes on in Pattaya?

Conversation with Bendix during a visit to his home country:

"Where do you live Bendix?

"In Thailand"

"Oh my goodness, that grubby little Asian country where all the women are whores and with all those western paedophiles and ageing sex tourists? Tut tut!!

(Bendix gives an embarrassed smile, and looks away)

I don't know whether the writer of the article is right or wrong, but I do find it very difficult to believe that Pattaya will manage to go upmarket very much, or improve it's seedy image in the foreseeable future. Other places, maybe, but not Pattaya. It's too entrenched in the sex trade and police 'mafia' who control it and feed off it. It ain't going to change any time soon.

Personally it doesn't bother me either way as I live some 15kms from the city and remain largely unaffected by events there.

But I shall certainly watch developments over the coming years with interest, and see who is right and who is wrong.

Back to the alcohol ban........

[Mobi]

Mobi ---- great article about WHY Pattaya is dying ... strangely not a single reference to the alcohol ban and THAT is the topic here, not why Pattaya should be allowed to die or at least to clean up! ... just that it is a crappy town that is for the most part a blight on society

I wondered if you would spot that?

However the point is that you claim that alcohol bans will not affect Pattaya's tourists as the place will go "up Market" with new, rich tourists whose needs are not fed by daily alcohol intake. I merely produced that clip to show you an alternative point of view about the place going up market; a view with which I tend to agree.

The fact that it is a "crappy town" and a " blight on society" is not the point, indeed irrelevant. It's not going to be cleaned up just because people like you and Bendix are disgusted with it, to say nothing of being embarrassed by it, in your perfect little expat world

[zorro1]

Conversation with Bendix during a visit to his home country:

"Where do you live Bendix?

"In Thailand"

"Oh my goodness, that grubby little Asian country where all the women are whores and with all those western paedophiles and ageing sex tourists? Tut tut!!

(Bendix gives an embarrassed smile, and looks away)

[ Quote Mobi]

Edited October 7, 2008 by zorro1

[jdinasia]

Mobi ---- great article about WHY Pattaya is dying ... strangely not a single reference to the alcohol ban and THAT is the topic here, not why Pattaya should be allowed to die or at least to clean up! ... just that it is a crappy town that is for the most part a blight on society

I wondered if you would spot that?

However the point is that you claim that alcohol bans will not affect Pattaya's tourists as the place will go "up Market" with new, rich tourists whose needs are not fed by daily alcohol intake. I merely produced that clip to show you an alternative point of view about the place going up market; a view with which I tend to agree.

The fact that it is a "crappy town" and a " blight on society" is not the point, indeed irrelevant. It's not going to be cleaned up just because people like you and Bendix are disgusted with it, to say nothing of being embarrassed by it, in your perfect little expat world

Pardon me ... where did I say that Pattaya would go up market etc?

apparently you already have had too many bottles of Chang

[Mobi]

Pardon me ... where did I say that Pattaya would go up market etc?

apparently you already have had too many bottles of Chang

"That being said ... Thailand IS a destination for multi-millionaires, just not as many as places that are CLOSER to them.

Morals ... a personal thing

Mores .. a societal thing (or a perception of how people think a society will react)

again .... shortened bar hours .. more alcohol free days etc did not affect tourism in the past. Thailand MAY lose a few .. they will easily be replaced. hel_l the millionaires from Japan that just come for Golf spend more in a day than the average Pattaya football hooligan spends in 2 weeks! "

My humble apologies if I mis-interpreted your above remarks.

It's certainly not the Chang that has given me delusions as not a drop of alcohol has passed my lips for 24 hours.

I'm practising for the day they ban alcohol completely

[jdinasia]

direct responses to some other goofball's remarks about millionaires and in no way did those remarks mention Pattaya

[Mobi]

Seems like they are going to enforce opening hours for all the bars in Pattaya to be from 6 p.m. to 2 a.m.

I wonder if other cities will follow?

If you don't think this is the death knell of Pattaya, I don't know what is.

You can read more about it HERE

[jdinasia]

Seems like they are going to enforce opening hours for all the bars in Pattaya to be from 6 p.m. to 2 a.m.

I wonder if other cities will follow?

If you don't think this is the death knell of Pattaya, I don't know what is.

You can read more about it HERE

Yeah .... ummmm why would it be an issue? so you can't go to a hooker beerbar until 6p? There is always places like Gullivers

I don't know of any of the gay bars besides bamboo down at Had Dongtan that open before 6, but then again who wants to be drunk in the afternoon unless you are at home in your own pool with friends (and no plans for going out that night?)

I however do not think it is the 'death knell of Pattaya' but if it is, tell me when the wake is and they have buried the corpse and I may visit for more than a night hanging out with friends at a villa in Jomtien!

[dumball]

bkkjames ---- you need to work on your vocabulary a bit .... 'celebacy'?

sorry mate, one two many cocktails at lunch...

You feel a need to apologise about your speliing/vokabulury to some self imposed perfectionist , what is this forum cUming to

[dumball]

Seems like they are going to enforce opening hours for all the bars in Pattaya to be from 6 p.m. to 2 a.m.

I wonder if other cities will follow?

If you don't think this is the death knell of Pattaya, I don't know what is.

You can read more about it HERE

Yeah .... ummmm why would it be an issue? so you can't go to a hooker beerbar until 6p? There is always places like Gullivers

I don't know of any of the gay bars besides bamboo down at Had Dongtan that open before 6, but then again who wants to be drunk in the afternoon unless you are at home in your own pool with friends (and no plans for going out that night?)

I however do not think it is the 'death knell of Pattaya' but if it is, tell me when the wake is and they have buried the corpse and I may visit for more than a night hanging out with friends at a villa in Jomtien!

You also appear to be a snob as well as a perfectionist , what a pitifull small domain you occupy with your tiny mind , there is a whole world of completely different thinking people out there who live contented lives in their own distorted way of thinking , despite you and you ilk .

[jdinasia]

You also appear to be a snob as well as a perfectionist , what a pitifull small domain you occupy with your tiny mind , there is a whole world of completely different thinking people out there who live contented lives in their own distorted way of thinking , despite you and you ilk .

You mean like guys in Cambodia that criticize Thailand from afar and lurk on Thai focused internet forums?

Am I a snob? If not wanting to hang out with hookers and football hooligans in Pattaya makes me a snob, then so be it! I am, however, FAR from a perfectionist I think my mind might be a bit more advanced than yours, though, since I am saying that the Thais (all 64+ million of them) have the right to set their own laws regarding alcohol, without kowtowing to some drunken tourists Your only valid point MIGHT be 'in their own distorted way of thinking'.....

[Mobi]

Seems like they are going to enforce opening hours for all the bars in Pattaya to be from 6 p.m. to 2 a.m.

I wonder if other cities will follow?

If you don't think this is the death knell of Pattaya, I don't know what is.

You can read more about it HERE

Yeah .... ummmm why would it be an issue? so you can't go to a hooker beerbar until 6p? There is always places like Gullivers

I don't know of any of the gay bars besides bamboo down at Had Dongtan that open before 6, but then again who wants to be drunk in the afternoon unless you are at home in your own pool with friends (and no plans for going out that night?)

I however do not think it is the 'death knell of Pattaya' but if it is, tell me when the wake is and they have buried the corpse and I may visit for more than a night hanging out with friends at a villa in Jomtien!

Here you go again - talking about yourself and your own desires/needs/prejudices.

Nobody gives a fig what YOU like to do. We're talking about what effect the restriction of alcohol will have on the tourist industry, and I brought up the subject of Pattaya,as a case in point, because I live near there and know a fair bit about what goes on there.

There must be literally hundreds of bars that are open all day, and get good custom.

If you read the thread I directed you to, you would see that there are posters who not currently in Thailand who will seriously consider going elsewhere for their holiday if this new 6 p.m. rule comes in.

JD, it is not about what you or I want - it is about what the tourists want - and you can blather away till you're blue in the face about all these wonderful, moral people who can go days without a drink when they're on holiday, but I can tell you that 90% of them want a drink - EVERY DAY, and many of those before 6 p.m.

And while we're on the subject - even your rich Japanese golfers want to drink - and screw the whores, so don't kid yourself they any different from the rest of the punters.

Have another single malt

[jdinasia]

90% want to drink EVERYDAY? Maybe in Pattaya The rich guys won't be drinking with the dregs on Walking Street ....They have their own sources (and pay ridiculous prices for it! 5k+ for a bottle of JW Black in one of their bars .. which double as restaurants and have hostesses/waitresses etc .....)

But really, you act as if Pattaya is the be all and end all of tourism for Thailand and you completely fail to recognize the huge busloads of asian families that were appearing last year etc ....

Apparently you have forgotten how much Chang you have had in the last 24 hours. Now go back and read what I wrote and the mention of Gullivers etc ..... so ... you MIGHT not be able to have a beer at a beerbar in the seediest areas before 6 ... you certainly will at a slightly nicer place (and deal with freelancers I would guess

[bonobo]

You know, it's the damndest thing.

Usually a thread with lots of stuff from me in is kinda interesting, but even MY contributions to this thread have failed to make this discussion the slightest bit interesting. I think it's because I don't really believe what I'm saying.

To provide (the second) second Oscar Wilde quote in this thread . . . . "someone in this room is boring me, and I fear it might be myself."

One of the best posts I have read in a long time! Hat's off to you!

(I have to admire anyone who can quote Wilde in a relevant manner, and not just trying to show off a well-read background.)

Edited October 7, 2008 by bonobo

[benjamat]

God help us. This old subject again?

In my view, any arbitrary and unannounced changes to the law which discourages thick-necked, tattooed single white scum tourists from coming to Thailand and pushes them instead to some other rancid shithole to get their annual shag (because, let's face it, they can't get it at home) is to be applauded.

dam_n, Cant argue with that.

Edited October 7, 2008 by benjamat

[Mobi]

90% want to drink EVERYDAY? Maybe in Pattaya The rich guys won't be drinking with the dregs on Walking Street ....They have their own sources (and pay ridiculous prices for it! 5k+ for a bottle of JW Black in one of their bars .. which double as restaurants and have hostesses/waitresses etc .....)

But really, you act as if Pattaya is the be all and end all of tourism for Thailand and you completely fail to recognize the huge busloads of asian families that were appearing last year etc ....

Apparently you have forgotten how much Chang you have had in the last 24 hours. Now go back and read what I wrote and the mention of Gullivers etc ..... so ... you MIGHT not be able to have a beer at a beerbar in the seediest areas before 6 ... you certainly will at a slightly nicer place (and deal with freelancers I would guess

You're getting your fancy, moral knickers all in a twist again.

Since when did I even begin to suggest that Pattaya is the 'be all and end all' of tourism in Thailand.

If you look back through my posts , have stated frequently that I can't speak for other cities in Thailand. I was simply making the point about the likely effect on Pattaya's tourist numbers, and you immediately see red, and try to turn this thread into a 'Pattaya bashing/moral crusade.'

Nevertheless, Pattaya tourists do constitute a sizeable portion of the tourist dollar, and there will be a huge hole in the TAT projected income if Pattaya goes to the wall.

The last time I had a Chang must be at least 5 years ago, and I hardly ever drink beer. I don't live in Pattaya, and I rarely drink there. There's plenty of places to drink where I live without the need to go to 'sin city'

So it's Gullivers is it? That's your solution to closing all the day time bars? Going to get a bit crowded isn't it?

You seem to know a lot about Pattaya: the seedy areas, and the "acceptable" areas. For someone who clearly spends time there, you really do pontificate a lot of priggish "holier than thou", garbage.

Get a life, stop worrying about it all and have another single malt.