Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

Samuian · October 17, 2008

To improve the economy the plastic-clappers could be for the extra well to do "made by Pierre Cardin", with an Outlet @ Siam Paragon, simpler Versions could be OTOP Products and distributed all over the country and targeting overseas markets, such as his new Home, the U.K.!

regarding the "equal distributed wealth", well here we have one of these Taxin-Haters-Miss trusters again!

Look, it's simple imagine there would be ONLY 10% of the frozen assets be made available, say as he already proposed, "one moo Ban, one Million", imagine how far 7.6 Billion could go, imagin 7.600.000 Million, Just in my Imagination I could see Gold Paved Pathway villas with Jacuzzi and Champagne Fountains throughout the country, well O.K. Outragious? O.K. some decent House for all!

I "heard" from the grapewine that if he get his stolen money back, he would consider, to just do that, but first the wants his marbles back, like Athens the Elgin-marbles!

And it is said that he would promise that, he would promise every single thai farmer to alleviate him and his entire family once and for all out of poverty, he would personally take care of the distribution, so impossible it could fail!

Well, would YOU trust this man?

Edited October 17, 2008 by Samuian

younghusband · October 17, 2008

I understand this is an attempt albeit lame at satire but it also reflects the poster's profound ignorance of Thai history.Sarit would have identified immediately with many of the PAD leadership's authoritarian and antidemocratic ideas along with its feudal and military underpinning.It doesn't make any sense to suggest that Thaksinistas would have some nostalgic longing for Sarit's hard man presence.The nostalgia would be the other way round, ie on PAD's part.

hammered · October 17, 2008

I dont usually pay much attention to Thai polls as the numbers always seem so close but todays ABAC poll showing only 11% of respondents say the government should not accept responsibility for October 7 shows something. Even if it were a BKK laden poll that number is less than PPP support in BKK.

October 17, 2008

FROM TOC

Senators and Democrats Push for Truth from Oct 7 Bloodshed

UPDATE : 17 October 2008

A meeting of 40 senators regarding the October 7 bloodshed revealed that the police brought out thousands of teargas bullets and canisters from its weapons cache to be used against the protesters. The senators have called on the Senate speaker to withdraw from the four-party talks to end the current political conflict.

A meeting of 40 senators to discuss the October 7 bloodshed concluded that the government used undue force in cracking down on the People's Alliance for Democracy protesters. Therefore, the senators said government should show responsibility by resigning and dissolving the House.

Bangkok Senator Rossana Tositrakul revealed that the police brought out two-to-three thousand teargas bullets and canisters from its weapons cache two or three times during the period from October 7 to 9. Unused bullets and canisters were returned on October 9 after the Administrative Court ruled to grant temporary injunction to protect the rally members from any further violent crackdowns.

The senators condemned the government for holding four-party talks to initiate the charter amendment and for setting up a committee to investigate the incidents that occurred on October 7, as they said the government no longer has the legitimacy to run the country because it has become a dictatorship despite being an elected government.

Senator Rossana further said Senate Speaker Prasobsuk Boondej doesn't represent the entire Senate in participating in the four-party talks as the Senate is divided on the current political conflict. The group has asked the Senate speaker to refrain from attending the talks.

Meanwhile, opposition whip chief Sathit Wongnongteoy revealed that the Democrat Party is pushing forth its investigation of the government and has submitted a complaint to the Ombudsman to review whether the government's policy statement declaration is in line with the Constitution as the quorum was not met and MPs tried to make the quorum by registering absent MPs' cards.

The party will submit additional information to the National Counter Corruption Commission as part of its request for an investigation into the PM's role in the October 7 bloodshed.

The party will also submit a protest to the PM and the Public Relations Department director-general for the cancelling of the contract with Digital Media Holding to provide content for NBT channel and for the removal of the 'Today's Truth' programme, which has broadened the divide within Thai society.

The Democrat Party also opposed the planned establishment of a charter drafting body, as they say it is merely a tool to further the government's time in office. The party will accept the creation of the body only when the PM accepts responsibility for the incidents on October 7.

October 17, 2008

FROM TOC

PM Says No to Resigning or Dissolving House

UPDATE : 17 October 2008

The prime minister announced today that he will not resign, nor will he dissolve Parliament. He promised to follow the resolution made by the investigative committee on the October 7 bloodshed.

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat held a press conference after a meeting with the coalition partners, saying the government will proceed with its work as it has a lot of important duties remaining, including hosting the royal cremation of Her Royal Highness Princess Galyani Vadhana, His Majesty the King's birthday celebration, and the ASEAN Summit.

Regarding the October 7 bloodshed, Somchai promised to give full authority to the investigative panel he has appointed. Whatever the outcome of the panel's investigation, Somchai has promised to follow it.

Somchai defended his policy statement declaration that led to the bloody crackdown, stating that he had to carry it out according to the Constitution. He said the House speaker insisted on holding the session at Parliament despite several ministers' suggesting it be held it elsewhere.

Regarding Army Commander-in-chief, General Anupong Paochinda's request that the premier quit or dissolve the House to take responsibility for what happened on October 7, the PM said it is merely the general's opinion. He noted that he will not remove the Army chief from his post and he will be able to continue working with him.

Somchai refused to comment on the stability of his government should the military choose not to support it.

Earlier this morning, Agriculture and Cooperatives Minister and Chart Thai Deputy leader Somsak Prissanananthakul said he agrees with the Army chief's call for Somchai to resign to take responsibility for the October 7th bloodshed. However, Somsak added that it must be proven that Somchai was in fact guilty of allowing the violent crackdown to take place.

The Chart Thai deputy leader remained vague about the possibility of Chart Thai withdrawing its support for the government coalition leader, the People Power Party. Somsak reasoned that the party will most likely wait for the result of the investigative committee that has been set up to probe the cause of the violence that broke out last Tuesday. If the committee finds that Somchai was involved, Somsak believes Chart Thai will withdraw from the government coalition.

Somsak also stated that he's confident General Anupong will not stage a coup because a coup is not a solution.

In addition to the Chart Thai Party, Matchima Thipataya Party leader Anongwan Thepsuthin has indicated that her party agrees with General Anupong, who said the premier must take responsibility if he was involved in ordering the bloody attacks against the protesters. Anongwan diplomatically said, as a member of the coalition, she suggests the premier meet to consult with the Army chief.

Although she said the Matchima Thipataya Party agrees with General Anupong's call for Somchai to step down, she did not confirm whether the party will withdraw from the government coalition. However, she admits the party will conform to whatever decision the other coalition partners agree on.

In a related development, Government Spokesman Nutthawut Saigua has stated that the premier's resignation is not the solution. He said the government's decision on its next course of action must be based on the truth and the law. Nattawut said that only if the investigative committee finds the government to be directly responsible for what happened on October 7th will the government will take responsibility for what took place.

TAWP · October 17, 2008

Alrighty, so now I've seen a collection of unedited material from the day in question.

One thing that strike me is that with the first launch on the day one can see a pile of tires be blasted apart - already here some bells should go off in the officers head if this isn't the intended effect. Later on during the evening one can actually see a small tree be blasted apart and fall over! This isn't some small fire crackers. These are military grade tear gas grenades, intended for a much higher level of force than normal police forces would use.

Either the officers are extremely poorly trained and had no idea what to expect from the grenades or they have trained with them and knew full in advance their level of destruction and they chose to launch it directly into people anyway.

Added: Also, the usage of grenades 'en masse' is completely without purpose. There is very little gain in shooting 5 times as much grenades into a crowd than usual - either they have the intended effect or they do not. Here they are just spamming them like it's 4th of July.

Edited October 17, 2008 by TAWP

animatic · October 18, 2008

Sorry to burst your bubble,

but the two people I DO know that were banned were both on the opposite side from your's.

Catmac no one stops you from posting, whether anyone likes what you say or not.

Look you hgave just posted this, you flamed no one and it won't be deleted.

But don't imagine that if it is seen as incorrect or just wrong headed,

that it won't see an attempt to refute it also. That IS how a forum of ideas works.

If you think it IS wrong you go and refute it.

Maybe it's just that one side has better arguments,

or simply has disputers more willing to continue the argument.

The mods don't pick who gets to log on and post, but if your side is breaking the rules more than the other,

then your side will also get blocked or banned more. Cause and effect.

P.S. being willing to argue a point and not changing point of view is not necessarily 'fanatical'.

Youa slo couple pro PAD with anti Thakisn,

while the two may easily coincide that are not actual the same animal.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it might be a duck.

But if you only listen to the quack it might be a young goose with a cold.

Edited October 18, 2008 by animatic

animatic · October 18, 2008

Hysterical, I needed a morning laugh! Thanks.

animatic · October 18, 2008

Looks like the ultimate Thai insult at play here...

Not just shown the bottom of the foot, but getting it right in the face.

younghusband · October 18, 2008

I may have missed it but is there as yet any credible explanation for the explosion as detailed in the extract from Crispin's recent piece in Asian Times

"One official, who requested anonymity, believes the interpretation of events so far represents a public relations failure. He pointed to lack of attention to the still-unexplained explosion of a white Jeep Cherokee, allegedly laden with bombs and owned by a prominent PAD supporter and police lieutenant colonel, which exploded on October 7 near the PAD's main protest site at Government House."

h90 · October 18, 2008

We also have that (don't know the english word....that carpet like thing for cleaning your shoes before you enter the house) with the face of Thaksin and his wife.

jumnien · October 18, 2008

There are plenty of posters of Sondhi's face being stepped on at the DAAD rallies and the usual Sondhi-Chamlong buggering cartoons, but isn't it a little juvenile to reprint them here?

frodo · October 18, 2008

Source: http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30086359

This should be interesting. I'm sure he'll make the police department really look outstanding. Who'll give the order this time?

On a side note, any officers seen wearing these yet? If this is still police "policy" there ought to be quite a few with their "Hello-Kitty" armbands.

animatic · October 18, 2008

Yes one group prays to mend society as a whole,

and then Bunnag wants to immediately lead his group to create violence and chaos,

in the like cause of saving police face most likely. Certainly NOT for national unity.

This is not the product of a clear mind.

mdechgan · October 18, 2008

So you've seen the bloody october vcd, 49 minutes of unedited material.

1) The beginning where the police guy said tear gas does not harm, police are not armed, the injuries to the PAD were self inflicted, they tripped and fell, etc. Was just a joke and straight lie.

2) Tear gas cannot harm the flesh. When you see tires blown apart and trees falling you know whatever was fired was explosive.

3) During a scene a commader said (translated) "keep firing! If they can stay and take it, let them stay take it!" Conclusive evidence that they were really aggressive.

4) There was a guy that got his lower leg blown off during the evening. This was not the same one in the picture on the newspaper where he was supposed to already be an amputee. This guy had his foot and lower leg blown off, definately not an amputee. The foot was hanging by a few ligament strains. He was in pain and deeply in shock. The policemen just stood around and told him not to move. Well there was this one policeman that did help and kept him calm, the others just stood around watching and firing.

5) There was another scene during the day when the red cross workers weren't allowed to be let in and help the PAD injured. A PAD leader shouted (translated), "do you know who these people are? These are from the Queen herself. You dare challenge the Queen?" He was meaning that these workers or nurses were supplied from the Queen. After the announcement the police then got confused and backed off to let the medical workers through. You wouldn't believe this but the ambulances were bombed and tear gased also.

6) The jeep that got blown up, it was definately because of a NGV or LPG explosion. You could hear the gas leak and fire intensify as the leak grew larger. The fire wasn't much at first, but as soon as the tank exploded it was over, nothing left. The corpse then fell onto the sidewalk and the guts were on a tree. It was not a C4 explosion.

7) Remember the police guy with the pistol? He was aiming at something but a collegue tapped his shoulder and said no don't and gestured to walk back and away from the scene. The guy put the pistol back in his pocket and both walked away from the scene shadily. However the guy with the pistol didn't have head gear but a beret while his friend had head gear on.

8) Many of the riot police were not local police. They were the border police from other provinces.

9) Lots of weaponry found. Canisters and bombs. They could have been flash grenades. Also if you look at the floor lots of red casings were found, like shotgun casings.

10) Rifles were fired.

11) Lots of fingers, toes and various other body parts were found and collected.

12) Heavy damage was done to many vehicles, buses, and trucks. The PAD tried in vain to snuff out the tear gas by throwing bottles of water. I saw them breaking into Rajaphat University to escape the road.

In conclusion with unrefutable evidence, no one can argue following:

- The weaponry used was dangerous and harmful and explosive in nature.

- The police were aggressive, very aggressive. Some were even scared and panicked.

- The aggressiveness was ordered.

- The violence could have been stopped anytime. Morning, day, evening, or night. Anyone in the command chain including th ePM could have said and ordered stop anytime. Which no one did. The guy that got his lower leg blown off was during the night. Atleast 12 hours from the start of the crackdown.

- The police and government lied. Everyone knows they did, but now there's proof.

plachon · October 18, 2008

Aren't we the superior one YH? But even with my "profound ignorance of Thai history" as you so confidently state, I have trouble equating an anti-government people's movement like PAD with its eclectic mix of characters and sympathisers, with a longing for the Sarit era of dictatorship and extreme corruption and cronyism. So, cleverclogs, please explain to me succinctly which PAD leader has ever given any verbal indication of nostaligia for Sarit's style of leadership. Pipob Thongchai or Chamlong Srimuang perhaps? Or are you telling me those ordinary people who are prepared to protest for months on end in the heat and the rain and sacrifice their lives for the fight against the authoritarianism of the Thaksin govt and its proxies are really secret Sarit sympathisers? That they would like a return to a 60's style military dictatorship?

C'mon you know perfectly well that Toxin's War on Drugs was an exact copy of one Sarit launched 4 decades ago and was one that led to the deaths of many communists, communist symathisers, democratic idealists, young students and ordinary innocent people. Khrong Chandrahan........Somchai Neelapaijit. One shot openly in a field, one disappeared on the orders of someone high-up near [at?] the top. Lest they never be forgotten. Your interpretation of Thai history is so skewed that you are now starting to see the victims of state-led violence as the oppressors and vice versa. Get a grip YH!

bingobongo · October 18, 2008

any prognostications?

Another military coup will be met with resistance on Bangkok streets. Instead of giving flowers to soldiers, "people will hurl Molotov cocktails at them." EXCLUSIVE By Wassana Nanuam

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131503

sriracha john · October 18, 2008

Door mat

Thaivisa... it's all about members helping members...

plachon · October 18, 2008

Seems like Toxin-fever, like a Tropical Malady, is spreading amongst these secret General Sarit Thanarat sympathisers.

What can be the reason for such bizarre behaviour in a country where the ordinary person is supposed to love the man on the mat? And his gorgeous law-abiding wife! Do these students have no sense of history that by doing this they are really calling for a return to 60's style authoritarianism and military rule? They clearly need YH to help point out the error in their ways.

sriracha john · October 18, 2008

This photo inadequately captures, the open sobbing, pleading, ranting, hate-spewing nature of his press conference...(whilst sitting next to a monk... )

Police General Salang Bunnag, a former Deputy Police Chief, weeps during a press conference yesterday. He vowed to “retake” Government House from the anti-government protesters on Wednesday.

The Nation

==============

probably the family members of the people he murdered earlier, wept as well...

The Nation / 06-24-1998

Police Director-General Pol Gen Pracha Promnok Tuesday played down speculation that his Deputy, Salang Bunnag, would be suspended from duty due to the summary executions of six drug suspects in 1996. He said the case had not gone so far as to warrant Salang's suspension from duty. Pracha said he would not suspend Salang from duty as speculated and the Interior Minister had not instructed him to act against Salang. Salang was in charge of a police operation when six drug suspects were

shot dead in Suphanburi.

Edited October 18, 2008 by sriracha john

catmac · October 19, 2008

Yes, indeed, Plachon. Your last point is quite appropriate.....but wasn't one of the most determined killers (proudly boasting of "taking out" many of those ordinary, innocent people with his bare hands) none other than General Panlop? And is he not now a prominent leader in PAD's arsenal?

jumnien · October 19, 2008

PAD is full of right-wing murderers!

younghusband · October 19, 2008

You don't give the impression of having read much Thai history let alone understanding context, but there are very clear parallels between Sarit's paternalistic democracy and the so called "new Politics" voiced by Sondhi and othe PAD leaders.There's a useful summary of the Sarit/Luang Wichit position in David Wyatt's history which spells out the position very simply.

I didn't have Thaksin's drug wars in mind but you are right to point out similarities to Sarit's summary executions.One wonders incidentally why the drug wars are so low down PAD's list of priorities.The PAD rank and file are a motley bunch from some decent middle class liberals to a disgusting thug like element.However I was specifically referring to the leadership.

sriracha john · October 19, 2008

The original article has now been expanded...

Salang revives threat

Ex-Deputy Police Chief to 'retake Govt House' after religious service on Wednesday

Police General Salang Bunnag yesterday revived his threat to "retake" Government House from the anti-government protesters, saying that his planned operation would begin after a religious ceremony to be held nearby on Wednesday.

Salang, a former Deputy Police Chief, said he would lead more than 1,000 inactive or retired policemen to retake the compound and return it to the Thai people. He said a religious ceremony would be held on October 22 at the Royal Plaza where more than 10,000 Buddhist monks would say a mass prayer to bless the country and "mend torn Thai society".

Protesters affiliated with the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) have occupied Government House for more than two months.

Salang yesterday asked anyone interested in attending the ceremony to dress in white and said the event, which would begin at 1pm, would be limited to the Royal Plaza itself, "but after the event is over, I shall be ready to lead the 1,000 inactive policemen to retake Government House".

Suriyasai Katasila, coordinator of the PAD, which spearheaded the protesters who seized Government House on August 26, said yesterday it would be difficult to avoid confrontations and clashes if the ceremony went ahead.

"A bloodbath would be inevitable, and the PAD leaders have no way to control hundreds of thousands of PAD members," he said.

He said Salang was merely a nominee used in planned crackdowns on the PAD. "Salang's motive and stance have aroused public suspicion and will enrage the public [should clashes occur.]," he said.

"I do not believe Salang is planning the ceremony for his own purposes; somebody is no doubt pulling strings behind the scenes. Whether it is the prime minister or ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra I would not know," he added.

Suriyasai also called on Army commander General Anupong Paochinda not to hold back over Salang's announcement about the ceremony.

Meanwhile, Army Maj-General Khattiya Sawasdiphol said he would mobilise government supporters against any military attempt to seize political power.

He said members of the pro-government Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD) would use petrol bombs against tanks and military vehicles taking part in a coup attempt.

Speaking on a pro-government radio programme, he also named allies of the DAAD, especially the June 24 Movement and Saturday People Against Dictatorship, who he said would help in the anti-coup operations. He also said many leaders of former communist guerrillas had pledged their support for the DAAD because they detested Thai soldiers.

"The use of Molotov cocktails against tanks has been practised widely, but never in Thailand. This will be the first and only time that the people have threatened a counter-coup, if tanks roam Bangkok streets," he added. He said the tanks usually used in military coups, attached to the Fourth Cavalry Battalion, were old and vulnerable to catching fire.

Khattiya also denounced the top brass who appeared on a Channel 3 programme on Thursday calling for the resignation of Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat.

"The infamy is that these military officers wore their full uniforms to threaten their commander, the prime minister, who is also the defence minister," he added.

- The Nation / 2008-10-19

sriracha john · October 19, 2008

Red shirts mobilised

Another military coup will be met with resistance on Bangkok streets. Instead of giving flowers to soldiers, "people will hurl Molotov cocktails at them." A group of government supporters is planning to take up arms and stage running battles with the army on the streets of Bangkok if the military attempts to stage a coup against the Somchai administration. Military specialist Major-General Khattiya Sawasdipol, who is close to the government, said a military putsch will be met by strong resistance from pro-government factions. UDD supporters and several pro-government movements in the Northeast are poised to take to the streets and fight troops, he said. Khattiya, who claims to be training UDD supporters, said Molotov cocktails would be used against tanks if they rumble through the streets. "If a coup is staged, the 4th Cavalry Battalion [which controls 50 tanks] will be blocked," he said. "In the Sept 19 [2006] coup, tanks rolled out, but no-one dared to fight. This time, fire-bombs will be waiting." "There is also a chance people will lie down on the streets and block the tanks." In the last coup people gave them flowers. But if they come out now, people will hurl Molotov cocktails at them." When asked about the UDD's forces, he said they were being trained to fight and the training ground had been shifted from Sanam Luang to a training camp. He said there were hundreds of UDD fighters whose task is to counter the PAD. Khattiya said UDD fighters had been approached by the government and the police to help block PAD protesters on Oct 7 and Oct 13. On Oct 7 they were asked to go to Parliament to clear the way for Somchai to leave the premises after delivering his policy statement. He claimed they were asked to go to police headquarters on Oct 13 to counter PAD demonstrators who threatened to hold a rally against the previous clash. However, the PAD cancelled the rally.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131503

Edited October 19, 2008 by sriracha john

sriracha john · October 19, 2008

Human Rights Commission: Government responsible for excessive action on Oct 7

BANGKOK, Oct 18 (TNA) -- Thailand's National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) has said the government must accept responsibility for ordering police who used excessive action to disperse anti-government protesters last week which saw two people dead and nearly 500 others injured.

NHRC Chairman Saneh Jamarik and chairman Surasee Kosolnavin of the NHRC sub-committee investigating the police crowd dispersal operation on October 7, together told a press conference that their initial investigation, obtained from questioning protesters from the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), police and eyewitnesses, found that police fired tear gas to disperse the crowds three times, causing two deaths and the loss of many hands and legs.

Mr. Surasee said police fired tear gas without warning at demonstrators who gathered at parliament on Tuesday.

The government convened a meeting late on October 6 and mapped out plans to disperse the protesters who planned to obstruct cabinet ministers and members of parliament from attending a policy statement reading given by the government the next day.

The NHRC has found that the police-conducted dispersal operation was "excessive, violated human rights and the law", said Mr. Surasee, and the government must take responsibility for ordering police to take action against the protesters while the police themselves must accept responsibility for how the order was carried out.

The committee chairman said the NHRC members would speed up the identification of those officers who had violated human rights and that their results would be forwarded to the government for its consideration.

sriracha john · October 19, 2008

PM : I am now happy

The Prime Minister insisted the government would never support parties defying laws, expressed his blissfulness after several days of sorrow.

Prime Minister and Minister of Defence Somchai Wongsawat told a gatherings of Ubon Ratchathani people during the opening ceremony of Lai Rua Fai ceremony, the province's traditional ceremony marking the ending of Buddhist lent, and the province's annual Loy Krathong festival, on Saturday October 18 that he was utmost blissful after several days of sorrow.

He said he was glad that people came to welcome him and extend moral support to him to continue working in politics.

He reaffirmed that being from democracy and representing the general public, the Prime Minister stressed that the government would work for the people, without discriminatory policy.

The government, he added, would never work to maintain its own power as everybody in the society, including the government, must respect the laws. It would never support parties defying laws.

Saying the government was prepared to listen to opinions of several factions in the society suggested solutions to prevailing political deadlock, Somchai insisted that the government was from the right legal means.

- ThaiNews / 2008-10-19

animatic · October 19, 2008

No I do NOT see Panlop as a PAD leader. Prominent or behind the scenes.

He is an opportunist, with a historical tie to Chalerm,

but these two are not cut from the same cloth.

It is hard NOT to know someone elese of the same relative

military age and rank in this country. Logically they would know each other.

Panlop makes pronouncements from his tower when he feels like it.

He makes use of PAD as a lever for his own goals,

but I don't see him as controlling PAD. He doesn't need to.

Panlop is the boggieman, used to scare some into inaction.

Or used by others to make PAD seem more marshal than it in fact is.

----------------------------------------------

The lower picture of the doormat series certainly shows a grandmother

not a young impetuous student, standing on a door mat.

She would have known Sarit's rule and KNOWN what that was like.

And would have recognized clearly any resemblances between Thaksin's rule and Sarit's too.

Edited October 19, 2008 by animatic

h90 · October 19, 2008

Thanks yes, my wife bought more than we have doors

But there is great demand at the neighbors.

Sunderland · October 19, 2008

It's gonna get BLOODY interesting soon ...

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