Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[frodo]

"We won't treat police who show up in their uniform. But if they come in as general people, we will provide treatment," he said.

So, they are not entirely refusing treatment to officers. The request is simple enough...show up for treatment in a civilized manner and we will treat you.

Thanks ThNniner. I too have been trying to bring this to light as well.

[ThNiner]

Thank you, ThNiner, for posting what I've been trying to put together based on some translations I've read.

I'd just like to add that at no time were police actually ever denied treatment... as this is coming from Dr. Suthep who made the initial statement.

No problem John. I felt sick to my stomach reading the REAL stories and seeing the pictures of people who got maimed and killed by the police. Seeing how the police have been trying to distort the truth and saving their own asses, that was even worse. The amount of bullshit on here is almost equally sickening. Where's all humanity?

Anyway, John I'd like to thank you for all your posts as well.

[h90]

I really didn't wanna bother replying to some nonsense, immorality, ignorance and pure stupidity but anyone who watched the interview with one of the doctors who refused to treat the policemen the other day would understand that their position was that they would still treat anyone who needs emergency care. However they'd reserve their right in treating anyone in uniforms who's not seriously injured. Their reason was that as doctors, their first and foremost duty, besides treating patients, was to help prevent people from being ill or getting injured in the first place. Besides their professonal obligations, they also must have social responsibilities. In times like these, the only action they could take to raise awareness about what's REALLY happened and demand the end to the bloodshed was to do what they did. Their boycott against treating police officers who don't need emergency care was a symbol and a cry to the end of violence perpetrated by the police. They just wanted the police to use a gentler and more humance approach in dealing with the protestors. That's all the doctors wanted to do.

Anyway, I am not gonna be surprised one bit though if some people on here still can't grasp this. Some are just too think and too evil.. I guess.

Thank you for posting it again. It was pointed out in the media several times. These people barking here against the Doctors must know it as well, but ignore the fact (the same as many other facts) as it undermines their goal in discussion. They aren't interested in fact finding or in an honest discussion. Their only goal is barking: PAD bad, PAD ugly, PPP ans square faced men: super hero, godness, rich and handsome safer of the nation. Bombing away hands and legs mai pen rai. Doctors who don't like to see young lovely people with missing limbs are evil.

I don't what kind of ....... (I don't want to call them humans) these users are who find it perfectly OK to bomb away limbs but are shocked about Doctors.

[sriracha john]

Their reason was that as doctors, their first and foremost duty, besides treating patients, was to help prevent people from being ill or getting injured in the first place. Besides their professonal obligations, they also must have social responsibilities.

Refusing to treat "evil politicians" (meaning those in the party they don't support) is not an example of social responsibility -- quite the reverse.

From MCOT :

Meanwhile, Dr. Suthep from Chulalongkorn apologised for having announced a boycott of medical service to the police, and the emotional remarks he had made at a press conference said he was sorry to have made statements that may have had a negative impact against the hospital.

He said some may have misunderstood his intention as he only wanted to urge the authorities and other in responsible positions to understand that the measures government and police used against protesters were not appropriate.

He added that in practice he did not deny medical treatment to any patient.

Public Health Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung explained that the physician had been speaking from anger, but he believed that all doctors practice medical ethics and would not discriminate against patients, despite the emotions raised by this week's events.

He assured the public that the medical institutes under the Public Health Ministry would give their full attention to help all patients.

[ThNiner]

Does that include all three of their children? including MP Chinnicha?

I think so.

[sriracha john]

Anyway, John I'd like to thank you for all your posts as well.

mai pen rai

[hanuman1]

Has no one seen this yet?

Bangkok protest leaders surrender

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7662548.stm

[sriracha john]

Does that include all three of their children? including MP Chinnicha?

I think so.

I take it then, that she didn't fly Thai Airlines?

[sriracha john]

Has no one seen this yet?

Bangkok protest leaders surrender

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7662548.stm

it's over in the PAD leaders thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Chamlong-Sri...ed-t216048.html

[TAWP]

But not one, and I mean not one person even with a camera phone in their hand managed to see a policeman even with shotguns or handguns using the type of ordnance that would cause the injuries we have seen.

This is a clear lie as we can see some pages back in this thread.

Please refer to my post some pages back regarding that the shotgun is unlikely to be using bean-bags due to the distance the police officer is using the rifle at.

[ThNiner]

Does that include all three of their children? including MP Chinnicha?

I think so.

I take it then, that she didn't fly Thai Airlines?

Most possibly not.

[sylviex]

So, they are not entirely refusing treatment to officers. The request is simple enough...show up for treatment in a civilized manner and we will treat you.

Un-uniformed may be impractical in many cases .

If individual doctors/nurses/other staff wish to take a stand and protest with any party, that is fine by me, provided they do so outside of the workplace.

We must trust certain professions to separate political bias from their work. The medical profession is one.

Leaders in all workplaces, as well as schools and universities need to be very careful about how they conduct themselves in such volatile times. The hospitals' actions are not a trivial matter -- they suggest emotions are running out of control amongst people from whom we must be able to expect better.

You can't take the moral high ground against corruption if you behave unethically yourself.

Edited October 10, 2008 by sylviex

[h90]

So, they are not entirely refusing treatment to officers. The request is simple enough...show up for treatment in a civilized manner and we will treat you.

Un-uniformed may be impractical in many cases .

If individual doctors/nurses/other staff wish to take a stand and protest with any party, that is fine by me, provided they do so outside of the workplace.

We must trust certain professions to separate political bias from their work. The medical profession is one.

The police is another of these professions

Leaders in all workplaces, as well as schools and universities need to be very careful about how they conduct themselves in such volatile times. The hospitals' actions are not a trivial matter -- they suggest emotions are running out of control amongst people from whom we must be able to expect better.

You can't take the moral high ground against corruption if you behave unethically yourself.

[h90]

Does that include all three of their children? including MP Chinnicha?

I think so.

I take it then, that she didn't fly Thai Airlines?

Maybe the next pilot can compromise with them and take them half the way instead of rejecting them.

[TAWP]

Or half-way and ejecting them?

[sylviex]

The police is another of these professions

Of course.

In saying this, you concede my point.

[cmsally]

I am not trying to be sarcastic here. Where do you draw the line between Emergency or non-Emergency. Say for an example. Take the guy for have loss his leg. But I think he is not life threatening. He will survive even if his treatment is delay by say half and hour, the time taken for him to be transfer from Chula Hospital to Police Hospital 2 block down the road.

Please, I am not rude here or disrespect the injured. Please do not attack me personally. I just want to make a point. Where to you draw the line between Emergency or non-Emergency.

In all cases, the refusing doctor can claim that: "In my professional opinion, at the time of the incident, I deemed the situation non-Emergency. What happens after he/she left is beyond my control".

The point exactly.

The original article was specifically referring to patients arriving at the hospital from the violent street confrontation, not some off-duty cop wandering into casualty with a pain in his back!

No amount of mealy-mouthed back-tracking or lame excuses can alter the fact that this man is a disgrace to his profession.

There was a sign clearly hung in the hospital that said. "We will not examine police or evil politicians" (presumably govt. ones). Now if they won't examine them how do they know whether those injuries are life threatening or not. In some cases you need an X ray or scan to see if it is, so little hope there. Also the march to police headquarters by Chula hospital staff would seem to cancel out any retraction they might have earlier made.

Do you have prove about the said sign? More importantly, is it put up by the hospital staff with the knowledge of the management? Or is it put up by some PAD jokers? It will be nice to have prove.

I am neutral here, and for the benefit of doubt, I would assume the latter (the act of some PAD jokers not related to the hospital). If you have prove that it is the act of the hospital staff and the management turn a blind eye on it, I will protest to the International Red Cross Society. MORE, I WILL BAR MY DAUGHTER FROM HER RED CROSS ACTIVITY IN HER SCHOOL. My annual donation to the Red Cross Society may be small and insignificant to them, but I will stop from now on.

It was on television. My husband was also watching, I will ask him this evening if he can remember which channel.

I will be at Chula next Thursday, if I have time will wander over to the hospital and see if they have any signs still there.

[sriracha john]

The police is another of these professions

Of course.

In saying this, you concede my point.

and the medical profession has, by all reports, in not allowing heated words translate into their actual actions...

I don't think the police can make the same claim.

[sjaak327]

I really didn't wanna bother replying to some nonsense, immorality, ignorance and pure stupidity but anyone who watched the interview with one of the doctors who refused to treat the policemen the other day would understand that their position was that they would still treat anyone who needs emergency care. However they'd reserve their right in treating anyone in uniforms who's not seriously injured. Their reason was that as doctors, their first and foremost duty, besides treating patients, was to help prevent people from being ill or getting injured in the first place. Besides their professonal obligations, they also must have social responsibilities. In times like these, the only action they could take to raise awareness about what's REALLY happened and demand the end to the bloodshed was to do what they did. Their boycott against treating police officers who don't need emergency care was a symbol and a cry to the end of violence perpetrated by the police. They just wanted the police to use a gentler and more humance approach in dealing with the protestors. That's all the doctors wanted to do.

Anyway, I am not gonna be surprised one bit though if some people on here still can't grasp this. Some are just too think and too evil.. I guess.

Doctors are paid and trained to treat patients, not to have an opinion or declare action on matters that strickly doesn't concern them, the interview with one of these people, that apparently would ask other doctors from other hospitals to join him in the boycott is simply unbelievable. This guy should be sacked on the spot. I can not in any way find even an inch of sympathy or understanding for such an action.

[sylviex]

The police is another of these professions

Of course.

In saying this, you concede my point.

and the medical profession has, by all reports, in not allowing heated words translate into their actual actions...

I don't think the police can make the same claim.

Going in circles here ...

[sylviex]

These people barking here against the Doctors must know it as well, but ignore the fact (the same as many other facts) as it undermines their goal in discussion. They aren't interested in fact finding or in an honest discussion. Their only goal is barking: PAD bad, PAD ugly, PPP ans square faced men: super hero, godness, rich and handsome safer of the nation.

I have only made statements of concern about violence here. I don't support either side, politically.

Bombing away hands and legs mai pen rai. Doctors who don't like to see young lovely people with missing limbs are evil.

I don't what kind of ....... (I don't want to call them humans) these users are who find it perfectly OK to bomb away limbs but are shocked about Doctors.

I don't see how making critical comment about the hospital workers turns anyone into a uncaring subhuman ?!

[h90]

I really didn't wanna bother replying to some nonsense, immorality, ignorance and pure stupidity but anyone who watched the interview with one of the doctors who refused to treat the policemen the other day would understand that their position was that they would still treat anyone who needs emergency care. However they'd reserve their right in treating anyone in uniforms who's not seriously injured. Their reason was that as doctors, their first and foremost duty, besides treating patients, was to help prevent people from being ill or getting injured in the first place. Besides their professonal obligations, they also must have social responsibilities. In times like these, the only action they could take to raise awareness about what's REALLY happened and demand the end to the bloodshed was to do what they did. Their boycott against treating police officers who don't need emergency care was a symbol and a cry to the end of violence perpetrated by the police. They just wanted the police to use a gentler and more humance approach in dealing with the protestors. That's all the doctors wanted to do.

Anyway, I am not gonna be surprised one bit though if some people on here still can't grasp this. Some are just too think and too evil.. I guess.

Doctors are paid and trained to treat patients, not to have an opinion or declare action on matters that strickly doesn't concern them, the interview with one of these people, that apparently would ask other doctors from other hospitals to join him in the boycott is simply unbelievable. This guy should be sacked on the spot. I can not in any way find even an inch of sympathy or understanding for such an action.

The sound like it really concerned them.

Maybe it is good fun for you to chop of hands and legs from young people who were in perfect condition an hour earlier, but the Doctors are very concerned about it.

If you have a free minute maybe you think how life is without one leg or hand.

One doctors daughter lost 3 fingers so some reports tell.

If you have children, imagine someone is bombing away a leg or hand from them. Than the butcher want to buy from your service whatever your profession is.

I hope than you are not concerned by your children lost limbs.

[h90]

These people barking here against the Doctors must know it as well, but ignore the fact (the same as many other facts) as it undermines their goal in discussion. They aren't interested in fact finding or in an honest discussion. Their only goal is barking: PAD bad, PAD ugly, PPP ans square faced men: super hero, godness, rich and handsome safer of the nation.

I have only made statements of concern about violence here. I don't support either side, politically.

Bombing away hands and legs mai pen rai. Doctors who don't like to see young lovely people with missing limbs are evil.

I don't what kind of ....... (I don't want to call them humans) these users are who find it perfectly OK to bomb away limbs but are shocked about Doctors.

I don't see how making critical comment about the hospital workers turns anyone into a uncaring subhuman ?!

supporting people who bomb away limbs from people is subhuman.

There is no space for negotiating or for compromise. That is the worst crime humans can do and it requires clear stand against it.

What do you expect Doctors should do? "Dear Mr butcher, how are you today? Ah tired from killing peaceful protesters, here are some tablets for relaxing your muscles, wish you good butchering tomorrow...."

[catmac]

)-->

QUOTE ( @ 2008-10-10 11:40:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Erm...looking back on the last few pages on this thread...anyone notice that the Same Few Posters whom Disregard the current government Morality Issue in the name of a disfunctioning-distorted "Democracy", are making the most noise regarding the "Morality" issue of the doctors refusing to attend to the Police whom got hurt during the clash at the parliament.

It's all in the posting style, whichever suits your likings.

Doesn't mean that I support the actions of the doctors though.

Could, of course, be a natural reaction to an appaling situation. Unlike so many PAD-lovers, we don't have that all-consuming hatred for our oponents that would let us walk by and leave them dying in the gutter!

Not wanting to see a gang of quasi-fascists overthrow any government doesn't mean that you think that particular government is good/bad/democratic/undemocratic or anything else. If you could be bothered to read, you would see that nearly every one of those criticising this Doctor have made it clear that they in no way regard the present government as moral or perfect, just that we are tired of PAD's claim of moral perfection, whilst at the same time greeting this doc's stand!

[sjaak327]

I really didn't wanna bother replying to some nonsense, immorality, ignorance and pure stupidity but anyone who watched the interview with one of the doctors who refused to treat the policemen the other day would understand that their position was that they would still treat anyone who needs emergency care. However they'd reserve their right in treating anyone in uniforms who's not seriously injured. Their reason was that as doctors, their first and foremost duty, besides treating patients, was to help prevent people from being ill or getting injured in the first place. Besides their professonal obligations, they also must have social responsibilities. In times like these, the only action they could take to raise awareness about what's REALLY happened and demand the end to the bloodshed was to do what they did. Their boycott against treating police officers who don't need emergency care was a symbol and a cry to the end of violence perpetrated by the police. They just wanted the police to use a gentler and more humance approach in dealing with the protestors. That's all the doctors wanted to do.

Anyway, I am not gonna be surprised one bit though if some people on here still can't grasp this. Some are just too think and too evil.. I guess.

Doctors are paid and trained to treat patients, not to have an opinion or declare action on matters that strickly doesn't concern them, the interview with one of these people, that apparently would ask other doctors from other hospitals to join him in the boycott is simply unbelievable. This guy should be sacked on the spot. I can not in any way find even an inch of sympathy or understanding for such an action.

The sound like it really concerned them.

Maybe it is good fun for you to chop of hands and legs from young people who were in perfect condition an hour earlier, but the Doctors are very concerned about it.

If you have a free minute maybe you think how life is without one leg or hand.

One doctors daughter lost 3 fingers so some reports tell.

If you have children, imagine someone is bombing away a leg or hand from them. Than the butcher want to buy from your service whatever your profession is.

I hope than you are not concerned by your children lost limbs.

Sorry, it doesn't concern them, if excessive violence has been used by police, then there are other people who can take measures agaist these police, a doctor is not qualified to make that judgement. A doctor just has to do his work, that they apparently think they can play for judge should be enough reason to sack them on the spot. I don't think there is any more discussion needed, it just makes me sick. Unfit for their job, nothing more nothing less.

[Bangyai]

Good post Thaiatheart, it expresses my sentiments completely.

Ditto ... my thoughts are much the same.

Yes, good post Thaiatheart. I was thinking along the same lines myself. Here we all are, a bunch of foreigners who have found Thailand attractive enough to want to stay here and yet we will never have a vote here and in this respect will always be on the outside looking in. If we weigh the sum total of everything that has been said in all these political posts not a single person has been persuaded to cross the floor and change their original opinion despite the fact that some posters appear to be in front of their computer from the moment they wake up until they retire. The only thing that has been achieved is ......well, nothing at all really except a lot of bad feeling. Its something the Thais are going to work out for themselves without regard to anything posted here.

[Samuian]

........

PAD sincerely believes that their ranks were infiltrated by plainclothes police, while claims that PAD impersonated police officers is plain ridiculous. Ultimately the buck stops with those who started this senseless violence - and that is the police, they didn't give any warnings and they didn't try to negotiate.

Blank denials on the part of police commanders is not credible at all, and neither are their claims that portesters blew off their legs themselves or cut them off on barb wire. The more they try to talk themselves out of it, the less credible they sound.

And highly likely, reminds me of "Sender Gleiwitz" Tactics, infiltrating the enemy and make them look as if they were the perpetrators, simple and if one looks back on to the footprints left behind by the fugitive hiding in London and pulling the strings, who came to questionable fame with his "honest mistake" defense... well, may one assume that these armed Spec.Op's Police on VDO, horizontally fired teargas grenades (which may have been tempered) and the injured are finally "honest mistakes" as well?!

Well....?

and this is underlining the above, doesn't it?

Administrative Court issues junction on crowd control measures

The Central Administrative Court Thursday issued an injunction demanding the prime minister to strictly observe the international standards on crowd control when dealing with the protesters.

The court issued the injunction in the case in which some senators filed a suit against Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat and police, accusing them of using excessive force to disperse protesters on Tuesday.

The court said the injunction would be in place until the court makes a ruling in the case.

-The Nation-

[cmsally]

I think some people are completely missing the point on medical ethics here. If you see it as being correct that one profession should be denied treatment for what some members of their profession supposedly have done, then how on earth can you have a system of ethics in place.

If this is the system of ethics you wish to use then subsequently you will have convicted criminals denied access to healthcare, suspected criminals denied , families and coworkers of those criminals denied and so on.

Out of interest, are Israeli doctors allowed to refuse treatment to Palestinians ? Because if you are suggesting that doctors have the right to refuse treatment to certain threatening opposition groups, then this would be the case.

The Israeli doctors that I have talked to have said they have to treat anybody whatever their religion, politics etc.

I think if anyone is in any doubt about medical ethics they should send off an email to the hospital in Paisley mentioned in this article:Glasgow Bombing

Just ask them why they treated the people below and why.

Both of the car occupants were apprehended at the scene, and all those injured were taken to the Royal Alexandra Hospital in nearby Paisley.[1][2][6][7] Within three days, Scotland Yard had confirmed that eight people had been taken into custody in connection with this incident and that in London.[1][8][9][10]

Police identified the two men as Bilal Abdullah, a British-born, Muslim doctor of Iraqi descent working at the Royal Alexandra Hospital,[11][12] and Kafeel Ahmed, also known as Khalid Ahmed, the driver, who was treated for severe burns at the same hospital.[13] The newspaper, The Australian, alleges that a suicide note indicated that the two had intended to die in the attack.[14] Ahmed did eventually die of his injuries, on 2 August.[15]

You will see from the above that the car bombers were taken to hospital and treated for their injuries irrespective of what they had done. However seriously you disagree with whatever criminal act they had carried out; would you seriously want to live in a society where the medical profession doesn't see all lives as being equal?

Edited October 10, 2008 by cmsally

[jdinasia]

1) The administration at King Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital have dealt with the issue

2) People need to read up on the hippocratic Oath (links were provided earlier)

[Samuian]

Sorry, it doesn't concern them, if excessive violence has been used by police, then there are other people who can take measures against these police, a doctor is not qualified to make that judgment. A doctor just has to do his work, that they apparently think they can play for judge should be enough reason to sack them on the spot. I don't think there is any more discussion needed, it just makes me sick. Unfit for their job, nothing more nothing less.

I think this is a highly unqualified judgment!

Doctors do have an unquestionable duty to save lives and help people in emergencies not doubt!

But that at the same time a doctor is not qualified to make a judgment about a political situation is absolutely new to me!

I believe it was merely pointed in the direction of the police causing extensive physical harm to fellow citizens, that if they need help, they may not get it!

A thread made... or heard of any police bled to death because doctors left him outside the clinic?