Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[Plus]

NCFC,

No matter how many words you type justifying yourself, SC ruling of 1990 has no legal bearing on Ratchada case.

Also when you say the law is the law - the SC doesn't write the laws, its decisions do not become law either, not in a sense that all future cases must strictly comply with them.

There's no point in arguing whether it's fair or not. What would that achieve? That Thai justice system is unfair and so must be ignored when it suits Thaksin's political objectives? Spare us any debate leading in that direction, please.

>>>>

PAD leaders should seriously reign in their guards, they are becoming an embarassment and cast the whole movement in a bad light.

[Old Man River]

The SC ruling that FIDC is NOT a state body, but a separate juristic entity has a DIRECT legal bearing on the Taxsin court case. The basis of the charges related to section 100 which states the government officials may not have dealings with State bodies. Since the Supreme Court ruled that FIDC is not a state body, then the case against Taxsin collapses.

It is not an argument that the court can ignore the law every time a case comes to the court. Think about it, if that were the case there would be no law. The law is the law. You cannot argue to put the law books aside in the case regarding the law, you must follow what the law says.

You really have missed the point here. I am not going to get into whether the SC ruling pertaining to the FDIC has any relation to the Ratchadapisek land case, because it simply does not matter. In Thailand, when it is said the law is the law, it refers to the the written (codified) law only, not to opinions by other courts. Don't confuse other countries legal systems with Thailand's legal system. There are no precedents in Thailand. If it isn't written in the codified law, it is subject to the opinions of the judges each and every time, regardless of how similar the cases may appear to be.

The Supreme Court decision 4655/2533 is not an opinion but a ruling on the law. You are correct that lower courts make make rulings that can be overturned by a higher court, but once the SC has made a decsion that is the law until such time as the law-makers change by the written law as you have described it.

Since no lawmaker has change the law that says FDIC is not a state body ( and remember law-makers have had eighteen years to change the law if they thought the SC ruling was an incorrect one) then the SC ruling stands as the law today. So you really cannot say the ruling simply doesn't matter. It does matter because it is the law and it is at the very heart of the case against Taxsin.

Simply put, the law has not been upheld in this case.

Sorry, but you are continuing to miss the point. I do understand where you are coming from because you are under the same miss-conception that many other foreigners are under. What you say seems logical, but is not the way it works here.

In Thailand, the Supreme Court's rulings take precedent over lower court's decisions only as it pertains to cases it directly rules on. The Ratchadapisek land case has not been presented to the Supreme Court (and it is likely that it never will). Lower courts follow codified law only.

Codified law can be modified, but there is a process for this and the most important part of this process is that it has to be ratified by HM the King. Supreme Court decisions do no follow this process and are therefore not legally binding on any case other than those it specifically reviews.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Old Man River

[Old Man River]

The SC ruling that FIDC is NOT a state body, but a separate juristic entity has a DIRECT legal bearing on the Taxsin court case. The basis of the charges related to section 100 which states the government officials may not have dealings with State bodies. Since the Supreme Court ruled that FIDC is not a state body, then the case against Taxsin collapses.

It is not an argument that the court can ignore the law every time a case comes to the court. Think about it, if that were the case there would be no law. The law is the law. You cannot argue to put the law books aside in the case regarding the law, you must follow what the law says.

You really have missed the point here. I am not going to get into whether the SC ruling pertaining to the FDIC has any relation to the Ratchadapisek land case, because it simply does not matter. In Thailand, when it is said the law is the law, it refers to the the written (codified) law only, not to opinions by other courts. Don't confuse other countries legal systems with Thailand's legal system. There are no precedents in Thailand. If it isn't written in the codified law, it is subject to the opinions of the judges each and every time, regardless of how similar the cases may appear to be.

The Supreme Court decision 4655/2533 is not an opinion but a ruling on the law. You are correct that lower courts make make rulings that can be overturned by a higher court, but once the SC has made a decsion that is the law until such time as the law-makers change by the written law as you have described it.

Since no lawmaker has change the law that says FDIC is not a state body ( and remember law-makers have had eighteen years to change the law if they thought the SC ruling was an incorrect one) then the SC ruling stands as the law today. So you really cannot say the ruling simply doesn't matter. It does matter because it is the law and it is at the very heart of the case against Taxsin.

Simply put, the law has not been upheld in this case.

Sorry, but you are continuing to miss the point. I do understand where you are coming from because you are under the same miss-conception that many other foreigners are under. What you say seems logical, but is not the way it works here.

In Thailand, the Supreme Court's rulings take precedent over lower court's decisions only as it pertains to cases it directly rules on. The Ratchadapisek land case has not been presented to the Supreme Court (and it is likely that it never will). Lower courts follow codified law only.

Codified law can be modified, but there is a process for this and the most important part of this process is that it has to be ratified by HM the King. Supreme Court decisions do no follow this process and are therefore not legally binding on any case other than those it specifically reviews.

As a follow up to this, check the link below. Go to the last section entitled "Legal System" and the last sentence, which states "Decisions of the highest court, the Supreme Court, are referred to as precedents but are not binding on lower courts."

http://www.bia.co.th/001.html

[Artisi]

Why don't they just stop their illegal protest so no more bomb from whatever side?

The red won't bomb the yellow is what I believe. If they wanted, they would just all go there and "yiap" (step) on all the PAD. Case closed. But they don't do that.

Ummmmm what?

the occupation of Government House may be illegal, the protests are not ...

Why would they stop protesting when there is still a government in place that is trying anything it can do to bring back a convicted criminal?

Very good. May I please ask you to provide me brief true information that he's the criminal? I'm a bit lost here.

Thank you.

Lost - so you're a comedian as well as uninformed

[sriracha john]

2 'PAD guards' arrested with bombs

Hmmm I think I will reserve judgement for a little while ---- why?

It is openly admitted by both sides that the PAD groups have been infiltrated by both the police and enemies .... I doubt that these ID's will be found to be legitimately issued by the PAD (or that these guys may have been planted). Far too random for a police stop to catch anyone doing this. (Why wouldn't you send someone on the route first etc) Random police stops just don't catch folks like this ....

So let's see how it plays out ... certainly after the mess created by Thaksin's speech ... Thaksin's conviction ... and most recently and most embarrassingly Thaksin's loss of face in the revocation of his visa to the UK.

PAD denies connection with two men arrested carrying bombs

BANGKOK, Nov 10 (TNA) - A top leader of the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters denied the two men arrested by police on Sunday with homemade bombs were working as its volunteer guards, saying that it was instead an attempt to discredit the activist group, PAD core leader Sonthi Limthongkul said Monday.

Police arrested two men Sunday in possession of homemade low-explosive 'ping-pong' bombs and other weapons including hand grenades and handgun ammunition.

Police also found PAD guard identification cards, and they said the duo confessed to being volunteer guards for the Peoples' Alliance.

Mr. Sonthi said that one of the two was formerly a PAD guard but was dismissed by PAD core leader Chamlong Srimuang some time ago because he tended to use violence when on duty.

He said the arrest was an attempt to discredit the PAD.

One of the arrested men told police that he was hired by another PAD guard, identified only as Nok, to carry the bag from a spot under the Rajawat Bridge to put into a garbage bin in front of the Rajdamnern Boxing Stadium.

Meanwhile, a taxi driver was arrested Monday morning when he was found carrying a handgun at a police checkpoint at Ban Phitsanulok. At the same time the sound of an apparent bomb explosion was heard near Rajvinit School but police had not yet identified the source of the sound.

Edited November 10, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Sondhi Denounces Police's Alleged Attempts to Discredit PAD

PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul has denounced a group of crooked policemen, who allegedly paid former PAD supporters to discredit the anti-government movement.

Sondhi Limthongkul told the gathering of People's Alliance for Democracy supporters last night that there has been a significant increase in the number of incidents that sabotage the credibility of the anti-government protest group lately.

Sondhi said that around ten days ago, the PAD leaders let go of one volunteer guard, who appeared too aggressive, before the man was recently arrested by the police for carrying hand grenades and riding a motorcycle without a license plate.

Yesterday, the police arrested 28-year-old Thanit Khanurai and 22-year-old Watana Kijpithaksin, who confessed to being PAD guards, after a lot of bombs and other weapons were found on them while riding a motorcycle.

The police found a bag with three M-67 grenades, 22 ping pong bombs, one homemade bomb, four shotgun shells, a samurai sword, and three sling shots. Police also found ID cards of PAD guards on them.

Watana told police that he was hired by another PAD guard, identified only as Nok, to carry the bag from a spot under the Rajawat Bridge to put into a garbage bin in front of the Rajdamneon Boxing Stadium.

Sondhi, however, stressed that such an arrest must be the police’s attempt to have a legitimate cause to disband the protest. He has asked all protesters to be more patient and continue rallying until the end.

Sondhi also alleged that he has received a report that some policemen have already paid some PAD guards to work for them, and there could be some moles among the demonstrators now.

Meanwhile, PAD guard leader Samdin Lertbutr said that all guards have been ordered to carry no weapon and there are regular checks and searches for arms all the time. Therefore, Samdin affirmed the confiscated arms do not belong to the PAD.

At the same time, PAD leader Somsak Kosaisuk said that the recent arrest of the two armed men, claimed by the police to be PAD guards, was the latest attempt by the PAD’s opponent group to sabotage the anti-government movement, following a series of bomb attacks.

TOC / 2008-11-10

[Los78]

Haha News From TOC I see.... Yes Sondhi offcoarse coming from your own Media. I better believe it then. Nice try but they were caught red handed. Its nice to make up excuses after the fact.

[jdinasia]

Haha News From TOC I see.... Yes Sondhi offcoarse coming from your own Media. I better believe it then. Nice try but they were caught red handed. Its nice to make up excuses after the fact.

See my post above and also the news out of TNA (note my post preceded the PAD response by a number of hours)

[animatic]

"2 'PAD guards' arrested with bombs"

<H2></H2>- Nation 09/11/2008

Read more here:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30087964

Well I told you that this was my assumption and I guess I was correct. PAD bombing itself for media attention. (Not confirmed offcoarse because I dont want to post no facts until they are investigated) What have farang PADistas got to say about this? Peaceful group. haha yes lets play with bombs peacefully. Curious

Hmmm I think I will reserve judgement for a little while ---- why?

It is openly admitted by both sides that the PAD groups have been infiltrated by both the police and enemies .... I

doubt that these ID's will be found to be legitimately issued by the PAD (or that these guys may have been planted). Far too random for a police stop to catch anyone doing this. (Why wouldn't you send someone on the route first etc) Random police stops just don't catch folks like this ....

So let's see how it plays out ... certainly after the mess created by Thaksin's speech ... Thaksin's conviction ... and most recently and most embarrassingly Thaksin's loss of face in the revocation of his visa to the UK.

Easy enough to add more disinfomation and discredit to them.

Why would these guys for any reason have a bag full ofg PAD ID's with bombs?

If this was in a movie I wouldn't buy it as to set up.

It is illogical, unless it's a PR plant from police side. Bet these named guys were canned

for trying to ~INCIT PAD into using bombs and got canned, but had scouped up a few ID's

and then put them to use politically.

The operative words are 'VOLUNTEER' Pad Guards.

These guys have had months to plant them selves and work up the chain a bit by showing zeal,

then got canned when orders said push the guards up a few notches.

Sorry los78 this doesn't ring true.

And no one is DEFENDING the guys with the bombs.

The inverse, they ARE totally suspect.

In fact it smells like last weeks fish.

Same same for the DAAD/Special police methods lame lame lame.

Edited November 10, 2008 by animatic

[Los78]

"2 'PAD guards' arrested with bombs"

<H2></H2>- Nation 09/11/2008

Read more here:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30087964

Well I told you that this was my assumption and I guess I was correct. PAD bombing itself for media attention. (Not confirmed offcoarse because I dont want to post no facts until they are investigated) What have farang PADistas got to say about this? Peaceful group. haha yes lets play with bombs peacefully. Curious

Hmmm I think I will reserve judgement for a little while ---- why?

It is openly admitted by both sides that the PAD groups have been infiltrated by both the police and enemies .... I doubt that these ID's will be found to be legitimately issued by the PAD (or that these guys may have been planted). Far too random for a police stop to catch anyone doing this. (Why wouldn't you send someone on the route first etc) Random police stops just don't catch folks like this ....

So let's see how it plays out ... certainly after the mess created by Thaksin's speech ... Thaksin's conviction ... and most recently and most embarrassingly Thaksin's loss of face in the revocation of his visa to the UK.

Defending PAD guards armed with bombs and weapons now?. Come on, I am sure Sondhis and his henchmen quickly went into overdrive claiming they know nothing about these two ex-PAD bombmakers. It is getting a little lame listening to all you PADistas claiming they were setup or whatever. Face the facts PAD guards are armed with bombs and for all those claiming Thaksin supporters or UDD or whatever are planting all the bombs around PAD sites makes your arguements a little less convincing.

[jdinasia]

apparently you cannot read Los78 --- go back to that post and read what was written!

[animatic]

apparently you cannot read Los78 --- go back to that post and read what was written!

JD why bother, he still believes the Thai police are honest and un-biased,

Why would he read anything to the contrary?

[clausewitz]

"2 'PAD guards' arrested with bombs"

<H2></H2>- Nation 09/11/2008

Read more here:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30087964

Well I told you that this was my assumption and I guess I was correct. PAD bombing itself for media attention. (Not confirmed offcoarse because I dont want to post no facts until they are investigated) What have farang PADistas got to say about this? Peaceful group. haha yes lets play with bombs peacefully. Curious

Hmmm I think I will reserve judgement for a little while ---- why?

It is openly admitted by both sides that the PAD groups have been infiltrated by both the police and enemies .... I

doubt that these ID's will be found to be legitimately issued by the PAD (or that these guys may have been planted). Far too random for a police stop to catch anyone doing this. (Why wouldn't you send someone on the route first etc) Random police stops just don't catch folks like this ....

So let's see how it plays out ... certainly after the mess created by Thaksin's speech ... Thaksin's conviction ... and most recently and most embarrassingly Thaksin's loss of face in the revocation of his visa to the UK.

It is illogical, unless it's a PR plant from police side. Bet these named guys were canned

for trying to ~INCIT PAD into using bombs and got canned, but had scouped up a few ID's

and then put them to use politically.

In fact it smells like last weeks fish.

Same same for the DAAD/Special police methods lame lame lame.

Chamlong, leader of PAD, has said that they were PAD guards but that they had been warned to stop carrying bombs and guns last week. The way he puts it is that they were overenthusiatic and were taken off the payroll a few days ago(over a thousand PAD security are paid).

[jumnien]

It is doubtful that these guys were authentic PAD paid thugs. I have read nothing to suggest that they carried any bloody sanitary napkins or other fetishistic devices usually employed by the PAD movement for protection. On the other hand, perhaps that's why they were caught - no protection. Either way, you can bet your sweet bippy that the guards will be PAD-ing up in the future!

[mc2]

The police found a bag with three M-67 grenades, 22 ping pong bombs, one homemade bomb, four shotgun shells, a samurai sword, and three sling shots. Police also found ID cards of PAD guards on them.

Although this may be a setup by the police, I have no doubt some of the trigger happy PAD thugs are armed and willing to respond with violent force. There is certainly an extreme and violent element to this hysterical group.

THeir leaders better step in and get control

[Plus]

There are more reports today - taxi driver detained with a small arsenal - PAD guard. A group of guys in a pickup truck - PAD guards with nine PAD id cards.

Meanwhile Chamlong says he has evidence that the guy detained yesterday was dismissed a week ago for carrying weapons.

A couple of another plausible denials and the govt would look like trying to frame PAD, even to unbiased observers.

With Somchai flatly refusing to cancel Thaksin's passport, the govt lost all pretence of working for the country. If he doesn't dissolve the House after Dec 5 and Thaksin continues broadcasting to incite his supporters to overthrow the judicial system - it would actually be a duty of all responsible citizens to remove this govt from power by any means necessary.

[sriracha john]

Three wounded in PAD Government House encampment bomb explosion

BANGKOK, Nov 11 (TNA) - Three men were wounded early Tuesday in a bomb explosion at the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) encampment at Government House, according to activist sources.

The witnesses said the bomb exploded around 3.30 am, caused a metre-wide opening in a PAD tent sheltering some of the protesters. The wounded suffered only minor injuries from the bomb, but the three were sent to hospital for treatment.

PAD volunteer guards collected evidence to give to Army Chief General Anupong Paochinda as they believed that the bomb was made for military use, and was not a home made bomb.

The explosion was only 50 metres away from the main PAD stage in the Government House compound.

The PAD guards believed that the bomb was thrown or launched from outside the Government House compound.

On Saturday, a PAD guard was wounded after a bomb exploded at the PAD security guard's tent outside the Santi Maitree building inside the Government House compound.

In related development, the PAD announced it would open Rajadamnoen Road in Bangkok from November 14 to 19 although police had opted to change the route the royal family would use to attend the royal cremation ceremonies of the late Princess Galyani Vadhana.

PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila said the PAD would open the road to facilitate people who would attend the royal funeral to take place later this week. However, the group would open the road during the day only due to security reasons. Protestors were to start clearing the road on Monday night.

[Meerkat]

<Snip>

With Somchai flatly refusing to cancel Thaksin's passport, the govt lost all pretence of working for the country. If he doesn't dissolve the House after Dec 5 and Thaksin continues broadcasting to incite his supporters to overthrow the judicial system - it would actually be a duty of all responsible citizens to remove this govt from power by any means necessary.

Overthrow the judicial system? You mean like the coup-makers (ably supported by the PAD), who ripped up an entire constitution, adding laws to absolve themselves of their crimes ex post facto (whilst simultaneously skimming off a sizable chunk of the country's wealth for itself. Ironic for an organization that in part tried to justify the coup by saying that Thaksin had been skimming off a sizeable chunk of the nation's wealth for himself).

If Thaksin's bleatings the other night were truly a plea for a Royal pardon, then such a pardon can be gifted from within the present legal system. Similarly, if the government manages to change the constitution to favour their old chums, as unpalatable as it might be, it would still be done under the bounds of the constitution itself. The Senate and opposition have been going through everything the government does with a fine-toothed comb to make sure that it operates under the law, throwing up a mountain of court cases when prima facie evidence warrants it. I don't think it unreasonable to posit that this government has been operating with far greater oversight to keep them straight than any other Thai government in recent history. Not a bad thing, obviously.

Considering that the PAD are trying to overthrow the complete system of government to their own ends, including trying to incite the military to make yet another extra-judicial cameo in Thai politics (a cameo that under New Politics would become a starring role remember), then surely by your own standards it should be the duty of the citizens to remove the PAD themselves, especially considering that the court has already determined the PAD's protests as not being protected under the constitution.

Your incitement for the people to overthrow this government by any means necessary if they don't dissolve the House would not only be illegal, it would be tantamount to asking for civil unrest of unparalleled violence. I only hope that the main players in this debacle exercise cooler judgement than you.

[sriracha john]

2 injured in explosion inside Government House

A bomb was hurled or launched into the Government House early Tuesday morning, injuring two protesters. The explosion occurred at 3:25 am just 50 metres from the right side of the stage where leaders of People's Alliance for Democracy addressed the demonstrators.

The bomb fell onto a tent and exploded, causing a one-metre-wide hole on the tent's roof.

The explosion initially caused a panic among the protesters, but the protest leaders managed to control the situation minutes later and calmness returned to the rally site. Following the explosion, PAD guards sealed of the area to preserve evidence.

At 4:15 am, Gen Pathompong Kesornsuk, a senior military officer who sympathised with the protesters, announced to the crowd that the bomb might be launched with an M29 launcher into the compound.

He said all the evidences had been collected to be given to Army Chief Gen Anupong Paochinda to investigate. Pathompong said the Army Chief would be urged to provide protection to the people inside the Government House. He said the PAD would also step up security.

He said an investigation should also be carried out to determine whether Gen Kattiya Sawasidphol, an army expert, was involved with the latest explosion because Kattiaya had threatened the protesters with bomb attacks.

- The Nation / 2008-11-11

[sriracha john]

Polices investigate a bomb that was found at a bus stop in front of the Rajvinit School on Monday morning. It was found at the bus stop just about 50 metres away from a rally site of the People's Alliance for Democracy.

The Nation

[sriracha john]

Two more 'PAD guards' arrested with weapons

Two more persons believed to be guards of the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) were arrested yesterday for possessing weapons without permits. The arrests followed Sunday's arrest of two other persons, also believed to be PAD guards, for possessing three hand grenades and other weapons.

The first arrest yesterday was at 2am in front of Baan Phitsanulok, near Government House, which is occupied by the PAD.

Kiattisak Rakphu, 35, from Chumporn province was acting suspiciously while driving his taxi and was stopped by police. A handgun, a folding knife, steel pipe baton and nine PAD guard IDs were found hidden near his seat. Kiattisak had no permits to carry a gun and knife in a public area.

Soon after, another arrest took place around Benjama Bophit Temple near Government House. Kaveeyuth Boonkongklaew, 33, was found to have been illegally carrying weapons in public areas while driving his pickup truck with seven passengers. The weapons included a .38 handgun and bullets.

The night also heard explosions at Nang Leung injunction and in front of Rajvinit School. Nobody was injured or arrested, however.

The Rajvinit School cancelled all classes yesterday following the explosions.

In a related development, Chamlong Srimuang and Pipop Thongchai, co-leaders of the PAD, said Thanit Khanurai, 28, and Watana Kijpithaksin, 22, used to work as guards of the PAD but they were fired more than 10 days ago. The two were arrested while on a motorcycle on Ratchasima Road in Dusit district on Sunday.

Chamlong said the chief of the PAD guards fired them after they were found to often use violence and carry guns. He said the two were warned several times to behave, but they disobeyed so they were removed from duty. Chamlong said the PAD also had records of firing the two and could present the evidence to the police.

- The Nation / 2008-11-11

[Plus]

Overthrow the judicial system?

Yes, that's exactly what Thaksin and PPP led government are trying to do, at the very least, but they might not stop there.

You coup ramblings is a red herring - Thaksin has been convicted for crimes committed long before the coup, and tried according to pre-coup laws.

Apart from that he faces six arrest warrants and eight pending cases. Asking for Royal pardon might seem legal to you, but with so many legal hurdles and complete refusal to accept any guilt, he's not going to get forgivenss for all his crimes, even if his lawyers try to find legal ways to ask for it.

Instead of describing how the govt tries to act within legal framework why don't you acknowledge Thaksin's open call for people power to bring him home - this is nothing short of revolution, except it will be revolution against the judiciary, not the government.

If Somchai assists him in any way - he should be removed. Period.

Somchai has a short grace period while the coutnry is busy with Royal funeral and Dec celebrations, after that it's an open season on his head.

And lets not pretend he is the Prime Minister of Thailand - he works for Thaksin, not for the country.

[Scott]

If the judiciary is independent, it can give an order, but the enforcement of that order is generally up to another body--whether it be the police or the military. If they chose not to do so, there isn't much that the court can do, independently. Essentially, the court can sentence someone to jail, but it requires the other branches of gov't to actually apprehend him and inprison him.

[animatic]

Overthrow the judicial system?

Yes, that's exactly what Thaksin and PPP led government are trying to do, at the very least, but they might not stop there.

You coup ramblings is a red herring - Thaksin has been convicted for crimes committed long before the coup, and tried according to pre-coup laws.

Apart from that he faces six arrest warrants and eight pending cases. Asking for Royal pardon might seem legal to you, but with so many legal hurdles and complete refusal to accept any guilt, he's not going to get forgivenss for all his crimes, even if his lawyers try to find legal ways to ask for it.

Instead of describing how the govt tries to act within legal framework why don't you acknowledge Thaksin's open call for people power to bring him home - this is nothing short of revolution, except it will be revolution against the judiciary, not the government.

If Somchai assists him in any way - he should be removed. Period.

Somchai has a short grace period while the coutnry is busy with Royal funeral and Dec celebrations, after that it's an open season on his head.

And lets not pretend he is the Prime Minister of Thailand - he works for Thaksin, not for the country.

Meerkat, if you would acknowledge that Thaksin has gone round the twist when hammering endlessly at PAD,

then we might take your statements more seriously. PAD is NOT the source of greatest danger to Thailand

It is clear some PAD guards are disobeying orders about weaponry.

I would think about that myself in their situation : Don't take a knife to a gun fight; logically.

I can see them not wanting to be under armed when there are continuous threats that they

are to be over run by wacko ex-police generals and 1000 man revenge squads etc.

Basic fact; they ARE under violent attack regularly.

But that doesn't excuse, only explain.

This leaves a perfect opening for pro-Thaksin police factions to discredit them continuously.

Remember he IS ex-police himself.

It is also clear that one guy won't have nine PAD guard ID's on him with a pistol.

Two days in a row armed people with multiple PAD guard ID's get stopped???

Ridiculous logically.

One guard, one ID, unless one has been captured and others ginned up to match.

And of course they must also be so inept with their weapons

that they set them off by 'accident' ever day or so in their own camp.

No way, beyond belief. They have army trained people who would

show them how to use the stuff, if that was the case.

Not to mention MOST Thai men do army service, and so know weapons.

Grenade launchers from outside lobbing small ones into the camp from covert positions,

that is EASILY believable. Create chaos and fear, maybe cut down the numbers a bit.

And THEN parade / perpwalk some snooks with bags of weapons and ID's.

That is a plausible dis-information campaign, even if not believable as fact...

This screams 'set up'.

And it shows how afraid of PAD the government and Thaksin's camp feels at the moment.

The Thaksin side has ALWAYS shown a willingness to resort to violence.

The PAD side has never escalated above hand weapons with the knowledge

AND aquiescence of the leadership.

Thaksin has now been backed into a corner, and he is feeling vengeful, in his own words.

He will now want to exact some measure of revenge on the easiest targets.

Naming names, is code for naming targets for his thugs to harass.

Thaksin's enemy is a judiciary emboldened by a speech from above.

And his biggest enemy is un-namable in that judicial sector.

If he goes that route he is in deep poop. He may not realize how deep.

And there's the danger. He's getting more and more enraged at his personal

freedoms being encroached on in all spheres. His statements to reporters are AGAIN

getting erratic, and not properly pre-planned. He clearly doesn't do stress well...

This does not auger well for his decision making.

If he were granted amnesty to return, it's like the lion with a thorn in it's paw.

The sheep might remove the thorn, but the lion is now so mad with mental pain,

he'd just eat the sheep, gratitude not being on his plate at the moment.

PAD is A thorn, also the watchdog barking loudly in the night,

but it is far from the only thorn in Thaksin's mental side.

And I doubt he can actual get them all.

It sounds more and more like Nixon's "Enemy's List".

Pathetic isn't it? Paranoid isn't it?

People he knows oppose him, so he targets them for trouble making.

Announcing these peoples names publicly is a blindingly dangerous game,

but a vengeful game too. If he names names that only oppose him,

but not ACTIVELY oppose him,he risks creating and even greater,

more powerful base, to thrash him with.

His history of extreme hubris and erratic behavior under stress,

doesn't bode well for rational decision making at this time.

He actually is moving himself farther from any chance he would get a large portion of his frozen funds.

As this sinks in he will likely get more monomnaical and thus more willing to pull bigger levers of disorder.

It's a shame.

He could do his time, act contrite, and if he really backed off,

he would likely get a huge chunk of cash back, and go about his business.

But,

his loss of FACE is too big to back down.

His loss of FACE is driving this to a bad end.

His loss of FACE is going to cause pain for many,

FAR from his actual aims and reference points.

But he... simply doesn't care.... he MUST 'win'.

No matter who also loses.

Edited November 11, 2008 by animatic

[Plus]

If the judiciary is independent, it can give an order, but the enforcement of that order is generally up to another body--whether it be the police or the military. If they chose not to do so, there isn't much that the court can do, independently. Essentially, the court can sentence someone to jail, but it requires the other branches of gov't to actually apprehend him and inprison him.

Yes, that would be complete breakdown of law and order. The govt that refuses to enforce the laws and court orders to serve criminals instead needs to be removed.

Currently Somchai's actions are nothing short of abbetting criminals on the run, he will pay for it dearly when his turn comes.

[hammered]

One worrying thing right now is that both Sondhi and Thaksin sound utterly insane. Sondhi and his tampon magic sounds totally loony tunes and Thaksin "you all love me and I am the god of demcoracy" sounds equally mad. It all reminds me of spoilt kids or some Lord of the Flies thing. The trouble is there arew some pretty powerful people with big weapons involved shame they are all so intent on acting exactly like children and with no care for anyone else.

[Old Man River]

One worrying thing right now is that both Sondhi and Thaksin sound utterly insane. Sondhi and his tampon magic sounds totally loony tunes and Thaksin "you all love me and I am the god of demcoracy" sounds equally mad. It all reminds me of spoilt kids or some Lord of the Flies thing. The trouble is there arew some pretty powerful people with big weapons involved shame they are all so intent on acting exactly like children and with no care for anyone else.

Sondhi has been a bit off center for a long time and Thaksin is willing to do whatever it takes to get his money back. Since people continue to follow these guys, violence is inevitable. There can be no other outcome. The only unknown right now is which side will win.

[sriracha john]

3 Senate panels will announce findings of Oct 7 event Tuesday

Three Senate panels will Tuesday announce the results of their investigations into police's October 7 bloody crackdowns on protesters.

today is Tuesday...

Senate Special Committee deems police action as infringement on human rights

The Senate Special Committee investigating the October 7th incident deemed the dispersal of protesters as an infringement on human rights.

Today's round table discussion on the violent incident of October 7th was joined by several relevant committee's investigating the matter including the Senate established special committee. The meeting chronologically ordered the events of the day from its preceding date and discussed whether or not police usage of tear gas was congruent with international standards for rally dispersal.

The Senate group revealed its conclusion that police actions, which resulted in many injuries and loss of life, were an infringement on human rights.

The group also commented that government reparations for the incident until now are insufficient to the magnitude of the event.

- ThaiNews / 2008-11-11

Edited November 11, 2008 by sriracha john

[animatic]

In other words the cock-up we all knew it was.

[Old Man River]

The Senate group revealed its conclusion that police actions, which resulted in many injuries and loss of life, were an infringement on human rights.

The group also commented that government reparations for the incident until now are insufficient to the magnitude of the event.

- ThaiNews / 2008-11-11

OK, so what now?