This Global Money Problem

[Lancelot]

The folks/businesses that were highly leveraged (debt) are taking a real haircut now. But for the average investor with a well diversified portfolio of cash, bonds and stocks, they will be ok.

On the positive side, a young person just begining to save for retirement is buying great companies for nice discounts

[PhilHarries]

So basically all those of us who used banks as money depositories trusting them to look after it (on fek all interest I may add) have been sold down the swanny to those dumb fcuks who, with no significant collaterall, borrowed to the hilt and spent the lot.

But what happens to those debtors? Okay a combination of financial interests and governments now own those bad debts and the assetts they represent but what of the people? Are they just going to be able to walk away from the whole shambles no worse off than the rest of us?

Is anyone ever going to trust a bank ever again?

Here in Thailand my visa prohibits me from working.

Thus my ability to look after my family is not the same as it would be at home... This is what worries me.

Lucky if you are able to work, but what about all the retirees? Wherever in the world they are living they are screwed.

[gennisis]

So basically all those of us who used banks as money depositories trusting them to look after it (on fek all interest I may add) have been sold down the swanny to those dumb fcuks who, with no significant collaterall, borrowed to the hilt and spent the lot.

But what happens to those debtors? Okay a combination of financial interests and governments now own those bad debts and the assetts they represent but what of the people? Are they just going to be able to walk away from the whole shambles no worse off than the rest of us?

Is anyone ever going to trust a bank ever again?

Here in Thailand my visa prohibits me from working.

Thus my ability to look after my family is not the same as it would be at home... This is what worries me.

Lucky if you are able to work, but what about all the retirees? Wherever in the world they are living they are screwed.

When I started this topic I asked for opinions,and now I think I understand the situation much better.

My conclusions therefore are that because the Americans,in their usual 'money is everything' attitudes and actions are now ,not only suffering themselves...which it seems they well deserve,but are also making the rest of the world suffer with them.....perhaps a period of denial of their excessive lifestyles will do them some good....but as to if they will learn from this....I doubt it !!

[Murgatroyd]

I am a retiree... that's what worries me... at home, when the crunch comes, I'd just go back to work again... 12 night hour shifts... 10 on 2 off, for as many years as it took to build another nest egg, or until it killed me...

The stock market underpins all pensions, public and private.

If you can't depend on pensions, or interest payments from banks, and you can't work... it doesn't leave many options...

If I have to go home, and go back to work again, so be it... but If I'm also sending money over here to support my new family, I will never be able to save enough to rebuild my re-retirement here... and I won't be alone in this... I think the same situation may affect many of us.

[AmeriThai]

So basically all those of us who used banks as money depositories trusting them to look after it (on fek all interest I may add) have been sold down the swanny to those dumb fcuks who, with no significant collaterall, borrowed to the hilt and spent the lot.

But what happens to those debtors? Okay a combination of financial interests and governments now own those bad debts and the assetts they represent but what of the people? Are they just going to be able to walk away from the whole shambles no worse off than the rest of us?

Is anyone ever going to trust a bank ever again?

Here in Thailand my visa prohibits me from working.

Thus my ability to look after my family is not the same as it would be at home... This is what worries me.

Lucky if you are able to work, but what about all the retirees? Wherever in the world they are living they are screwed.

When I started this topic I asked for opinions,and now I think I understand the situation much better.

My conclusions therefore are that because the Americans,in their usual 'money is everything' attitudes and actions are now ,not only suffering themselves...which it seems they well deserve,but are also making the rest of the world suffer with them.....perhaps a period of denial of their excessive lifestyles will do them some good....but as to if they will learn from this....I doubt it !!

I don't think you can put all the blame on Americans, although the U.S. is certainly deep in it. Other countries thought they were immune from such problems, only to discover the same thing happening though it took a bit longer to catch up to them. The problem is a global problem.

What makes my blood boil is the way AIG decided to spend half a million dollars by sending their execs to a luxury resort spa to celebrate the bailout. Unbelievable! Someone needs to be seriously held accountable for that kind of nonsense.

[laphroaig]

What makes my blood boil is the way AIG decided to spend half a million dollars by sending their execs to a luxury resort spa to celebrate the bailout. Unbelievable! Someone needs to be seriously held accountable for that kind of nonsense.

Is this true? Can you please help me with a source? I have selfish reasons for knowing if this is a fact and would appreciate a link to some information

T

[flying]

What makes my blood boil is the way AIG decided to spend half a million dollars by sending their execs to a luxury resort spa to celebrate the bailout. Unbelievable! Someone needs to be seriously held accountable for that kind of nonsense.

Is this true? Can you please help me with a source? I have selfish reasons for knowing if this is a fact and would appreciate a link to some information

T

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...007083aig1.html

[flying]

When I started this topic I asked for opinions,and now I think I understand the situation much better.

My conclusions therefore are that because the Americans,in their usual 'money is everything' attitudes and actions are now ,not only suffering themselves...which it seems they well deserve,but are also making the rest of the world suffer with them.....perhaps a period of denial of their excessive lifestyles will do them some good....but as to if they will learn from this....I doubt it !!

With all due respect I feel no need to defend Americans but please show me the culture that does not have a lot of "Money is everything" attitude?

I do not think any other country got sick without eating the tainted meat knowingly.

You think the rest of the world now has financial problems because they bought debt out of the goodness of their hearts?

I will agree with you that they who love excess will not learn from this. None of them

[thaicurious]

When I started this topic I asked for opinions,and now I think I understand the situation much better.

My conclusions therefore are that because the Americans,in their usual 'money is everything' attitudes and actions are now ,not only suffering themselves...which it seems they well deserve,but are also making the rest of the world suffer with them.....perhaps a period of denial of their excessive lifestyles will do them some good....but as to if they will learn from this....I doubt it !!

america was less the perpetrator and more a convenient patsy of a paradigm shift in world economics. while the u.s.a. should have had better safeguards up and while its tendency to overspend made it an easy mark, certainly much of the rest of the developed world was as complicitous in collective greed & stupidity.

per npr's global pool of money, the recent & rapid & successful development of countries like brazil, china and india pretty much shocked the system. per a prior poster's balloon analogy, picture a world where the global pool of money consists of about us$35 trillion (to invest) and that it took a few centuries to accumulate that $35 trillion. now picture a six year period from 2000 to 2006 whereby a few developing countries created another $35 trillion of wealth which had not existed before. suddenly you have $70 trillion (more money than the entire world spends on everything in one year) looking to invest in a global economy used to only half that. when you blow up a balloon, it is easier if you stretch it first. because unless you first built a bigger balloon or stretch or, even better, strengthened the existing balloon, it's bound to pop.

just imagine if only those developing countries had invested in themselves instead of in houses the usa didn't need so that we wouldn't now have an oversupply suppressing our markets. or maybe if they invested in research, in feeding & educating their poor. i guess they wanted better returns than that. sure hope everyone's happy. i'm not. i've never lived above my means and now i am stuck with two houses which i owned before the bubble and which are now worth less than had the bubble never occurred.

this too will work itself out. though it looks to be painfull along the way.

[richm7]

Sure to be called ignorant and obtuse but here goes.

If X loses money, does Y not gain it ?

Companies assets, (land buildings, equipment have a value) can/ how could their share price fall below this.

Cause of all this GREED, from bankers to consumers.

The fact that thw world looks like it's going to take a cold shower should be good for the environment.

mmmm should have read previous posts.

2 economics students asked their lecturer for old exam papers.

When they started on a set they saw they were for this years coming exam.

Honest Guys went and told the guy of his mistake, no problem he said the questions are always the same, it's the answers

that are different.

With all the hysteria of people on telly now, who have lost their money, I am wondering about the farang in the checkout line at Lotus who dropped a satang ?? is it ?, he held up all the queue while he assiduously searched, he never found it, it was safely under my foot.

You ask (perhaps rhetorically) if X loses money, does Y not gain it? I think this question gets to the root of the difficulty many of us have in understanding the present situation. Basically, it is that surely the currency floating around is still the same, so surely somebody must have it, somewhere? That is true, but the issue is not supply of money, but valuation of assets. If you add up the valuation of the the "assets" in a given market (say the USA) then the "value" of those assets will way outstrip the supply of money. So, if I bought my house for $500k, that $500k of cash still exists (with the seller - who has probably passed it on, somewhere) but if it is now valued at $600k there is not an extra wad of $100 bills suddenly appearing from out of nowhere. There is no direct relationship between valuation of assets and supply of money (though you might argue that there should be). So, if my house drops in value to $400k, my original $100k paper profit has disappeared, literally. Nobody has it; nobody ever had it because it was never realised. I have in fact now lost $100k which is floating in the system somewhere (that is a true X - Y scenario) but I can't get back unless my asset recovers and I cash it in. Your pension nest egg might well be worth 50% of its peak value but that does not mean that somebody out there has a big fat wad of your pension money in his pocket. The asset has decreased in perceived value. It is all about perception, and currently the perception is sell sell sell, which drives down the value of stocks and shares and cash is king, which means put it under the bed or move it to a Government guaranteed bank; either way, it results in a run on banks which affects their liquidy (they don't have the cash to pay) so they go broke (the rest is "assets" which have, of course, decreased in paper value).

On the subject of value and perception, the current "buy gold" bandwagon is also risky. Gold, like any commodity, is subject to the market, so it certainly is no guarantee of safety. When I arrived in Thailand gold was about 8,000 baht and I can see no reason why it might not easily go back there. Caveat emptor. Let's hope the various Governments don't end up printing a load of money to cover their guaranteed bank accounts because depositors loose confidence even in the Government guarantee. If they do, inflation will go bersek.

In my days in Silicon Valley in the 90's I knew a lot of people who did cash out and became instant millionaires; unfortunately, not me. In that case, yes, it definitely was an X/Y scenario, because they cashed out; if I have cash, by definition somebody else doesn't, because it is not infinite. Until they (or you) do cash out, there are no winners or losers in the real sense. Warren Buffet might be worth megabucks on paper, but just see what happens if he tries to liquidate his assets. He'd go from being obscenely rich to just filthy rich and yes, he'd have quite a lot of your money if you were directly or indirectly in the same assets.

Put simply, if we all wanted or even could turn all of our assets into cash, there ain't enough cash to go round. If there was, you'd cry over the real value of your assets!!

O.K. somebody, take a pot shot..................I'm ducking!!

[PoorSucker]

This video shows the root of the problems.

http://kcet.org/socal/2008/09/foreclosure-alley.html

[benjamat]

You can only blow so much air into a balloon. Eventually the balloon pops. Yes it is greed. People who had no ability to repay a mortgage were permitted to buy property. That property increased in value (?) and was eventually resold at a profit because the owner could not meet his payments. No one lost anything, most made money and the balloon got bigger. Finally the balloon popped and what was owed on these properties was much more than the property could be sold for. The greedy mortgage brokers, loan shills, crooked appraisers AND the banks should have been put out of business because of their greed rather than the government bailing them out. The socialists are now attempting to allow people to keep homes that they could not afford to buy in the first place. Working people are now being forced to pay for these follies.

YES, I was greedy too. As of today I have lost 55 percent of my life savings. My money is gone but the people who created this situation are not losing anything. I was stupid enough to invest in ETF's that were paying very good dividends. I used to laugh at my good friend who kept his money in bank CD's. He didn't trust the stock market. He still has his money and I'm not laughing anymore.

Sobering post.

[benjamat]

You're thinking of this place all wrong. As if I had the money back in a safe. The money's not here. Your money's in Joe's house...right next to yours. And in the Kennedy house, and Mrs. Macklin's house, and a hundred others. Why, you're lending them the money to build, and then, they're going to pay it back to you as best they can. Now what are you going to do? Foreclose on them?...Now wait...now listen...now listen to me. I beg of you not to do this thing.

: George Bailey "It's a Wonderful Life"

The banking system has been a flim flam for years... as are all other "Financial Services"... City types are amoungst the highest paid earners in the world... and they produce nothing... they dont manufacture anything, they don't grow anything, all they have ever done is to move other peoples money around, and take a slice of everything that has ever passed through their hands... It's always been a shell game... as long as everyone had confidence in the system, it continued to work, and provide massive incomes for as big a collection of parasites as can be seen outside of a dead water buffalo.

Now the confidence is gone, and depositors will soon try and get their "Safe and guaranteed" money back... they can't. It's not there... it never has been.

As I understand it with my pension, as I already draw it the capital fund value no longer effects what I get. If I had not started to draw my pension the fund would be decreasing and then when I drew it my pension would be based on the value at that time.

I think this is pretty standard so if you are already getting your pension you should not see a decrease.

Many of us ex-pats will be ruined, as a large proportion of us depend on interest payments and private pensions for our retirement incomes.

I fear for my new family...

[benjamat]

Sure to be called ignorant and obtuse but here goes.

If X loses money, does Y not gain it ?

Companies assets, (land buildings, equipment have a value) can/ how could their share price fall below this.

Cause of all this GREED, from bankers to consumers.

The fact that thw world looks like it's going to take a cold shower should be good for the environment.

mmmm should have read previous posts.

2 economics students asked their lecturer for old exam papers.

When they started on a set they saw they were for this years coming exam.

Honest Guys went and told the guy of his mistake, no problem he said the questions are always the same, it's the answers

that are different.

With all the hysteria of people on telly now, who have lost their money, I am wondering about the farang in the checkout line at Lotus who dropped a satang ?? is it ?, he held up all the queue while he assiduously searched, he never found it, it was safely under my foot.

You ask (perhaps rhetorically) if X loses money, does Y not gain it? I think this question gets to the root of the difficulty many of us have in understanding the present situation. Basically, it is that surely the currency floating around is still the same, so surely somebody must have it, somewhere? That is true, but the issue is not supply of money, but valuation of assets. If you add up the valuation of the the "assets" in a given market (say the USA) then the "value" of those assets will way outstrip the supply of money. So, if I bought my house for $500k, that $500k of cash still exists (with the seller - who has probably passed it on, somewhere) but if it is now valued at $600k there is not an extra wad of $100 bills suddenly appearing from out of nowhere. There is no direct relationship between valuation of assets and supply of money (though you might argue that there should be). So, if my house drops in value to $400k, my original $100k paper profit has disappeared, literally. Nobody has it; nobody ever had it because it was never realised. I have in fact now lost $100k which is floating in the system somewhere (that is a true X - Y scenario) but I can't get back unless my asset recovers and I cash it in. Your pension nest egg might well be worth 50% of its peak value but that does not mean that somebody out there has a big fat wad of your pension money in his pocket. The asset has decreased in perceived value. It is all about perception, and currently the perception is sell sell sell, which drives down the value of stocks and shares and cash is king, which means put it under the bed or move it to a Government guaranteed bank; either way, it results in a run on banks which affects their liquidy (they don't have the cash to pay) so they go broke (the rest is "assets" which have, of course, decreased in paper value).

On the subject of value and perception, the current "buy gold" bandwagon is also risky. Gold, like any commodity, is subject to the market, so it certainly is no guarantee of safety. When I arrived in Thailand gold was about 8,000 baht and I can see no reason why it might not easily go back there. Caveat emptor. Let's hope the various Governments don't end up printing a load of money to cover their guaranteed bank accounts because depositors loose confidence even in the Government guarantee. If they do, inflation will go bersek.

In my days in Silicon Valley in the 90's I knew a lot of people who did cash out and became instant millionaires; unfortunately, not me. In that case, yes, it definitely was an X/Y scenario, because they cashed out; if I have cash, by definition somebody else doesn't, because it is not infinite. Until they (or you) do cash out, there are no winners or losers in the real sense. Warren Buffet might be worth megabucks on paper, but just see what happens if he tries to liquidate his assets. He'd go from being obscenely rich to just filthy rich and yes, he'd have quite a lot of your money if you were directly or indirectly in the same assets.

Put simply, if we all wanted or even could turn all of our assets into cash, there ain't enough cash to go round. If there was, you'd cry over the real value of your assets!!

O.K. somebody, take a pot shot..................I'm ducking!!

Great Post, money from nothing is still nothing but if you borrowed it you still owe it, figure that one out.

[benjamat]

I wonder if when a bank fails and takes your money with it, do you still owe them for your loan.

No prizes for guessing the answer.

[AmeriThai]

What makes my blood boil is the way AIG decided to spend half a million dollars by sending their execs to a luxury resort spa to celebrate the bailout. Unbelievable! Someone needs to be seriously held accountable for that kind of nonsense.

Is this true? Can you please help me with a source? I have selfish reasons for knowing if this is a fact and would appreciate a link to some information

T

It's been all over the news the past few days. A lot of taxpayers are really fuming about it. This link might help.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27086714/

[Hairy]

I just thought I'd chime in with the happy little datapoint that what we've seen so far has largely been triggered by the subprime mortgages, given to the worst of the borrowers.

The "alt-A" mortgage pool is a much larger pool of mortgages, given out to people with marginally better ability to repay. Those are going to start resetting heavily in early 2009, peaking around March or April. Although the creditworthiness of the borrowers was slightly better, and hence their ability to repay is better, the total amount of the mortgages is much, much larger than the subprime pool. Thus, even larger dollar amounts of mortgages are going to go into default.

Of course, the underlying asset -- the house -- doesn't care whether the occupant has a subprime mortgage, an alt-A mortgage, a prime mortgage, or no mortgage at all. All of these houses have been falling in value more or less equally.

So, look for an even bigger tsunami in about six months.

Meanwhile, relax, don't worry, my advice is to go hit Walking Street, get smashed, and enjoy the sights!

[Gary A]

Unfortunately white collar crime is seldom punished. The executives who run a company into the ground are actually rewarded. The scumbags running these companies have taken the money they have stolen from us and retreated into their yachts and huge mansions. The people who have created this disaster have lost no money while the working people who have invested into these "trusted" companies are left holding the bag. (debt).

[bendix]

What makes my blood boil is the way AIG decided to spend half a million dollars by sending their execs to a luxury resort spa to celebrate the bailout. Unbelievable! Someone needs to be seriously held accountable for that kind of nonsense.

Is this true? Can you please help me with a source? I have selfish reasons for knowing if this is a fact and would appreciate a link to some information

T

It's been all over the news the past few days. A lot of taxpayers are really fuming about it. This link might help.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27086714/

Shoddy shoddy journalism.

It was NOT a retreat for executives. It was instead, a retreat which was for the financial agents (not employed by AIG) who sell AIG products. It is a reward for high sales performance. It is a very very common practice. The media portrays it as manicures for bailed-out executives; instead it is to reward sales agents from bringing money INTO the organisation.

Of course, in these days of hysteria and panic and the desperate need to find a bogeyman, it's important we don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, huh?

I'd expect this from Fox News, but not MSNBC

Edited October 10, 2008 by bendix

[flying]

Of course, in these days of hysteria and panic and the desperate need to find a bogeyman, it's important we don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, huh?

What you said was true.

It was for independent insurance salesmen that sell for AIG.

But I would not call treating them to a 400 thousand dollar reward on our dime & at this time hysteria or panic.

More like rage. I agree with those who said the main characters involved in executing this extreme example of poor judgement & timing should be fired & AIG should be forced to repay the taxpayers. You know the guys who actually paid the 400+k?

[Loaded]

An alternative view:

Governments and supervisory agencies (Fed and Bank of England) were well aware of the situation a long time ago. I knew there had to be a collapse 2 years ago when my sister told me I could obtain a mortgage in the UK (to let out the property) and wouldn't need to provide proof of my income. She called it a self-certified loan/mortgage; and I told her that if I applied for one and misrepresented myself, it was fraud. She told me everyone was doing it in the UK. This was/is a crazy situation. The government was aware of what was going to happen.

The Fed in The States is a private organisation made up of banks such as JPMorgan (a Rothschilds bank). JPMorgan recently bought Washington Mutual for 1.9bn dollars. The assets of Washington Mutual are hundreds of billions of dollars. The US government doesn't have executive authority over the actions of the Fed.

The Bank of England is a private bank owned by a Rothschilds company. The British government doesn't even have the power to control/change interest rates anymore. Gordon Brown gave away this power from an elected to government to a privately owned organisation when Labour first took office.

The world's economy was attacked by the fantastic rise in the cost of oil. Why was there such a rise? it's back down to 80 something dollars a barrel now. This didn't work. The collapse of the world's banking system may work.

Open your eyes and research these things on the internet. What's happening now is very frightening and I believe planned.

I'm very happy to discuss with anyone. The discussion won't be allowed on this board though so pm and I'll be happy to send links that may open your eyes.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Loaded

[bkkjames]

An alternative view:

Governments and supervisory agencies (Fed and Bank of England) were well aware of the situation a long time ago. I knew there had to be a collapse 2 years ago when my sister told me I could obtain a mortgage in the UK (to let out the property) and wouldn't need to provide proof of my income. She called it a self-certified loan/mortgage; and I told her that if I applied for one and misrepresented myself, it was fraud. She told me everyone was doing it in the UK. This was/is a crazy situation. The government was aware of what was going to happen.

The Fed in The States is a private organisation made up of banks such as JPMorgan (a Rothschilds bank). JPMorgan recently bought Washington Mutual for 1.9bn dollars. The assets of Washington Mutual are hundreds of billions of dollars. The US government doesn't have executive authority over the actions of the Fed.

The Bank of England is a private bank owned by a Rothschilds company. The British government doesn't even have the power to control/change interest rates anymore. Gordon Brown gave away this power from an elected to government to a privately owned organisation when Labour first took office.

The world's economy was attacked by the fantastic rise in the cost of oil. Why was there such a rise? it's back down to 80 something dollars a barrel now. This didn't work. The collapse of the world's banking system may work.

Open your eyes and research these things on the internet. What's happening now is very frightening and I believe planned.

I'm very happy to discuss with anyone. The discussion won't be allowed on this board though so pm and I'll be happy to send links that may open your eyes.

Yet another who still thinks the world economy is driven by the Bank of England...

[Northpoint]

who still thinks the world economy is driven by the Bank of England...

He is wrong. For as long as I can remember, the world economy has been driven by the USA and Zimbabwe.

[Pakboong]

What makes my blood boil is the way AIG decided to spend half a million dollars by sending their execs to a luxury resort spa to celebrate the bailout. Unbelievable! Someone needs to be seriously held accountable for that kind of nonsense.

Is this true? Can you please help me with a source? I have selfish reasons for knowing if this is a fact and would appreciate a link to some information

T

It's been all over the news the past few days. A lot of taxpayers are really fuming about it. This link might help.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27086714/

Shoddy shoddy journalism.

It was NOT a retreat for executives. It was instead, a retreat which was for the financial agents (not employed by AIG) who sell AIG products. It is a reward for high sales performance. It is a very very common practice. The media portrays it as manicures for bailed-out executives; instead it is to reward sales agents from bringing money INTO the organisation.

Of course, in these days of hysteria and panic and the desperate need to find a bogeyman, it's important we don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, huh?

I'd expect this from Fox News, but not MSNBC

Also not mentioned was that it had been planned and to some degree paid for as early as a 15 months ago.

[Pakboong]

When I started this topic I asked for opinions,and now I think I understand the situation much better.

My conclusions therefore are that because the Americans,in their usual 'money is everything' attitudes and actions are now ,not only suffering themselves...which it seems they well deserve,but are also making the rest of the world suffer with them.....perhaps a period of denial of their excessive lifestyles will do them some good....but as to if they will learn from this....I doubt it !!

america was less the perpetrator and more a convenient patsy of a paradigm shift in world economics. while the u.s.a. should have had better safeguards up and while its tendency to overspend made it an easy mark, certainly much of the rest of the developed world was as complicitous in collective greed & stupidity.

per npr's global pool of money, the recent & rapid & successful development of countries like brazil, china and india pretty much shocked the system. per a prior poster's balloon analogy, picture a world where the global pool of money consists of about us$35 trillion (to invest) and that it took a few centuries to accumulate that $35 trillion. now picture a six year period from 2000 to 2006 whereby a few developing countries created another $35 trillion of wealth which had not existed before. suddenly you have $70 trillion (more money than the entire world spends on everything in one year) looking to invest in a global economy used to only half that. when you blow up a balloon, it is easier if you stretch it first. because unless you first built a bigger balloon or stretch or, even better, strengthened the existing balloon, it's bound to pop.

just imagine if only those developing countries had invested in themselves instead of in houses the usa didn't need so that we wouldn't now have an oversupply suppressing our markets. or maybe if they invested in research, in feeding & educating their poor. i guess they wanted better returns than that. sure hope everyone's happy. i'm not. i've never lived above my means and now i am stuck with two houses which i owned before the bubble and which are now worth less than had the bubble never occurred.

this too will work itself out. though it looks to be painfull along the way.

The largest over supply in real estate I have ever personally witnessed is right here in Pattaya.

[AmeriThai]

What makes my blood boil is the way AIG decided to spend half a million dollars by sending their execs to a luxury resort spa to celebrate the bailout. Unbelievable! Someone needs to be seriously held accountable for that kind of nonsense.

Is this true? Can you please help me with a source? I have selfish reasons for knowing if this is a fact and would appreciate a link to some information

T

It's been all over the news the past few days. A lot of taxpayers are really fuming about it. This link might help.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27086714/

Shoddy shoddy journalism.

It was NOT a retreat for executives. It was instead, a retreat which was for the financial agents (not employed by AIG) who sell AIG products. It is a reward for high sales performance. It is a very very common practice. The media portrays it as manicures for bailed-out executives; instead it is to reward sales agents from bringing money INTO the organisation.

Of course, in these days of hysteria and panic and the desperate need to find a bogeyman, it's important we don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, huh?

I'd expect this from Fox News, but not MSNBC

And the source of your information is........?

[Loaded]

I read this morning that the US government (in reality the Fed) will nationalise failing banks. Sat next to Paulson during the announcement was the chairman of the Fed (a private organisation owned by a group of banks controlled by the Rothschilds and a small select group of elite families). This is reality. The US banking system is now owned by an elite group who are unelected and accountable to nobody. It was paid for at substantial discount by US taxpayers money. The scam is unbelievable and therefore to most people the reality of what's happened is unbelievable.

Do your own research while the Internet is relatively uncensored. What started my gradual realisation was Building 7 at the WTC. Youtube 'BBC' and 'building 7 WTC'. There's a live report from a BBC reporter standing in front of the WTC stating clearly the collapse of building 7. LOOK closely because building 7 is still standing just behind her left shoulder. The report was broadcasted 23 minutes before the actual collapse. Then ask yourself what caused the collapse and what information did the building contain. Then extend your research.

[Hairy]

The world's economy was attacked by the fantastic rise in the cost of oil. Why was there such a rise? it's back down to 80 something dollars a barrel now. This didn't work. The collapse of the world's banking system may work.

Largely because Bernanke and Paulson wanted to trigger high inflation in order to offset the deflationary effects of collapsing housing prices. It was utterly asinine of them, and was done to protect their Wall Street buddies, and it appears to have failed. Looks very much like we are headed into a fullblown serious recession, which is what was needed to begin with.

Unfortunately, they've also saddled the U.S. taxpayer with something like $1,300,000,000,000 (not a typo) in additional national debt in just the last year, and there's no end in sight.

Open your eyes and research these things on the internet. What's happening now is very frightening and I believe planned.

Possibly, although I believe a stronger case can be made for the businessmen/bankers simply taking advantage of the situation when they found that Bernanke and Paulson were pliable and more than happy to rape the taxpayers in order to bail out their friends.

[Loaded]

Possibly, although I believe a stronger case can be made for the businessmen/bankers simply taking advantage of the situation when they found that Bernanke and Paulson were pliable and more than happy to rape the taxpayers in order to bail out their friends.

= the leaders of the US have conspired to defraud the US taxpayer

[AmeriThai]

The world's economy was attacked by the fantastic rise in the cost of oil. Why was there such a rise? it's back down to 80 something dollars a barrel now. This didn't work. The collapse of the world's banking system may work.

Largely because Bernanke and Paulson wanted to trigger high inflation in order to offset the deflationary effects of collapsing housing prices. It was utterly asinine of them, and was done to protect their Wall Street buddies, and it appears to have failed. Looks very much like we are headed into a fullblown serious recession, which is what was needed to begin with.

Unfortunately, they've also saddled the U.S. taxpayer with something like $1,300,000,000,000 (not a typo) in additional national debt in just the last year, and there's no end in sight.

Open your eyes and research these things on the internet. What's happening now is very frightening and I believe planned.

Possibly, although I believe a stronger case can be made for the businessmen/bankers simply taking advantage of the situation when they found that Bernanke and Paulson were pliable and more than happy to rape the taxpayers in order to bail out their friends.

And Arnold Schwarzenegger also wanted to jump in on the bailout bandwagon to ask the U.S. for a $7 billion loan to help the state of California. It's unknown if California is falling into the ocean after all.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cali...0,5726760.story