Have Wife And Kids But Can’t Meet The Financial Requirements

[Daffy D]

This is just a thought. If you are married to Thai and have a kid or two or three but can’t come up with the required amount of money to show for your visa would they really refuse you so you have to leave the country?

The attitude behind this seems to be that if you don’t have what they consider sufficient monies then you can’t support your family. How would refusing to let you stay be better for your family?

You are obviously taking care of your family but just can’t show what THEY consider an adequate amount of cash. If you are forced to leave then you have to try and support two homes, yours and the wifes, which would not be possible.

Would they really make you abandon your wife and kids?

Apart from the emotional tragedy for your wife and more so for the kids, are there not some human rights issue here?

[Lite Beer]

They would indeed refuse you an extension if you did not meet the requirements.

But there would be other options.

Tourist Visas, Non O Visa (single or multi), paying tax on fictitious incomes.

Agree it is not ideal and would leave you with even less money to provide for your family.

The way the exchange rates are going there will be a few in this boat very soon.

[Mario2008]

There are indeed human rights issues here. And I believe that some practises of Thai immigration law go against human rights. In particular the convention on civil an political rights and the convention on the rights of the child give some openings to persons married to a Thai national or who have a Thai child.

However Thailand is just in a beginning proces regarding it's human rights. There is a human rights commision, but it lacks teeth as it can't go to court but only makes reports and send them to parliament.

The Thai administrative court is reletively new, but becoming popular under Thais and looks promising.

One should consider that the present human rights protection one recieves in the US and Europe didn't just come in one day. It took quite some time en started very slowly to in the 1960's. Thailand will need it's time as well.

[ubonjoe]

You can't get an extension of stay for sure.

They would not deport you for not being able to support your family. The deportation could occur after visa/extension runs out and you were to get caught on an overstay.

Sure there are human rights issues here. I guess you could try and fight it on that basis but it would take a darn good lawyer and that would be expensive.

Another issue that could be used is that the way the immigration act is written it is technically unconstitutional because of the unequal requirements for a male Thai to obtain a visa for his wife (he can) and how a woman can (she can't) obtain a visa for her husband. The same applies to the naturalization act.

Just some thoughts and MHO.

Edited October 9, 2008 by ubonjoe

[toptuan]

There are indeed human rights issues here. And I believe that some practises of Thai immigration law go against human rights. In particular the convention on civil an political rights and the convention on the rights of the child give some openings to persons married to a Thai national or who have a Thai child.

However Thailand is just in a beginning proces regarding it's human rights. There is a human rights commision, but it lacks teeth as it can't go to court but only makes reports and send them to parliament.

The Thai administrative court is reletively new, but becoming popular under Thais and looks promising.

One should consider that the present human rights protection one recieves in the US and Europe didn't just come in one day. It took quite some time en started very slowly to in the 1960's. Thailand will need it's time as well.

Good perspective. And true in a wider context (Thai driving habits, employer/employee relations, hiring practices, sanitary standards in restaurants, etc.). I just try to remember that I took a step back in time when I moved here, and that reminder covers a multitude of sins. Stepping into the "past" does have it's good trade-offs too!

[torrenova]

For sure there are human rights issues but the disappearance of Somchai shows you how much they value those here !

The easiest is the tax on fictitious incomes but I am now investigating whether some "proof" of 40k a month from the embassy would be sufficient. Looking into how much of a paper trail they want. In essence, this would save the tax due on 40k a month.

Quite easy to sort out I would have thought. Off the top of my head, you get a friend to say he rents some property from you in the UK and pays you 50k (in GBP) a month which revolves between two accounts and you show the embassy only one account. Needs more work done on it but it could be a future work around.

[farangmal]

This is just a thought. If you are married to Thai and have a kid or two or three but can't come up with the required amount of money to show for your visa would they really refuse you so you have to leave the country?

The attitude behind this seems to be that if you don't have what they consider sufficient monies then you can't support your family. How would refusing to let you stay be better for your family?

You are obviously taking care of your family but just can't show what THEY consider an adequate amount of cash. If you are forced to leave then you have to try and support two homes, yours and the wifes, which would not be possible.

Would they really make you abandon your wife and kids?

Apart from the emotional tragedy for your wife and more so for the kids, are there not some human rights issue here?

Give up the Ghost and take your Family to your Home.

Thailand's not Europe or a Democrised modern Country. Thailand's Thailand. The same rules don't apply.

Take them Home and keep the LOS for a holiday

[farangmal]

There are indeed human rights issues here. And I believe that some practises of Thai immigration law go against human rights. In particular the convention on civil an political rights and the convention on the rights of the child give some openings to persons married to a Thai national or who have a Thai child.

However Thailand is just in a beginning proces regarding it's human rights. There is a human rights commision, but it lacks teeth as it can't go to court but only makes reports and send them to parliament.

The Thai administrative court is reletively new, but becoming popular under Thais and looks promising.

One should consider that the present human rights protection one recieves in the US and Europe didn't just come in one day. It took quite some time en started very slowly to in the 1960's. Thailand will need it's time as well.

Good perspective. And true in a wider context (Thai driving habits, employer/employee relations, hiring practices, sanitary standards in restaurants, etc.). I just try to remember that I took a step back in time when I moved here, and that reminder covers a multitude of sins. Stepping into the "past" does have it's good trade-offs too!

Not anymore. Soi 6 is shut until 6pm these days

[Penkoprod]

Visa runs?

Tax on fictitious incomes?

Tourist or other visas?

Surely the BEST way of getting round the problem is to keep 20,000 TBH (to pay for any maximum overstay, in the unlikely event you get caught) in a handy place, and never apply for any type of visa anyway !!!

No more counting the days til the next renewal. No counting the days til the next visit to Immigration to ask permission to stay for another 90 days etc, etc.

I know this is just ignoring the problem in the hope it will go away, but, if ever a policy needed ignoring its the Immigration Laws of Thailand.

Don't get me wrong, here, as i love most things here, but the words "too full of their self importance" springs to mind with regards to whoever made them up in the 1st place !!!!

Penkoprod

[bendix]

It's interesting that noone had brought up the fact that families are regularly split up in places like the UK, US, Australia etc due to one member being deported for not meeting that country's visa requirements.

But I don't suppose that's important, because those people being deported from the west are black, brown or yellow, whereas we are white and should naturally get special treatment.

[harrry]

You forgot New Zealand Bendix.

A long time ago I found Thailand Immigration were a lot more human than Australian Immigration could ever be as long as you gave them the respect they do deserve. Things may have changed but from what I see on this forum I would think this still applied.

[imaneggspurt]

There are indeed human rights issues here. And I believe that some practises of Thai immigration law go against human rights. In particular the convention on civil an political rights and the convention on the rights of the child give some openings to persons married to a Thai national or who have a Thai child.

However Thailand is just in a beginning proces regarding it's human rights. There is a human rights commision, but it lacks teeth as it can't go to court but only makes reports and send them to parliament.

The Thai administrative court is reletively new, but becoming popular under Thais and looks promising.

One should consider that the present human rights protection one recieves in the US and Europe didn't just come in one day. It took quite some time en started very slowly to in the 1960's. Thailand will need it's time as well.

Interesting point and brings home that we are indeed in a third world country,.i do see bendix point in a way however to compare the visa structure here and in the UK/USA etc is way off the point,.a thai in trouble after a period in the uk would be entitled to a roof over their head and food at least, for farang in thailand im fairly confident we are booted out, even if we have thai wives/ partners and kids,. i hope no one has to find out for sure what happens here,. Edited October 9, 2008 by imaneggspurt

[richm7]

Remember if you're over 50 with a Thai child you don't have to prove any income or savings. Best and easiest way to go if you're in that situation.

[ubonjoe]

It's interesting that noone had brought up the fact that families are regularly split up in places like the UK, US, Australia etc due to one member being deported for not meeting that country's visa requirements.

But I don't suppose that's important, because those people being deported from the west are black, brown or yellow, whereas we are white and should naturally get special treatment.

In the US there have been a number of whites that have been caught from Europe.

There is a difference in situations. Many you mentioned entered the coutry illigally or entered on false documents.

The case here is a person that has met the requirements to live legally once or possibly more and then cannot meet the finacial requirements to remain legally.

Most are able to live and do live on much less than the required amount.

Edited October 9, 2008 by ubonjoe

[Geekfreaklover]

It's interesting that noone had brought up the fact that families are regularly split up in places like the UK, US, Australia etc due to one member being deported for not meeting that country's visa requirements.

But I don't suppose that's important, because those people being deported from the west are black, brown or yellow, whereas we are white and should naturally get special treatment.

Hmmmm. Visa applications come down to money and having the means to support ones self and ones family regardless of race in any given country.

Visa regulations are obviously much more liberal in the West. This can not be disputed.

To say that the western system is racist comapred to the thai system is simply laughable.

I wonder if Taksin is doing visa runs to France and having to report every 3 months. Oh, i forgot he is claiming asslyum.

[Mosha]

It may depend on where you are, but you can cheat. If you yourselfm do not have 40K/M but eg 30k/M take your other half to the tax office. Pay tax on 10K/month we go twice a year. They even gave a certificate to guarantee the tax payment for an extra 6 Baht. I did have to get my contribution guaranteed by the embassey, and helpfully they gave the pre UK tax figure. The immigration accept the tax payment as proof of your other half's income. If they ask what she does tell them anything, they did not check on us. We have done this twice now no problems. Well except it irritates my wife as no one else she knows pays tax

[coventry]

This is just a thought. If you are married to Thai and have a kid or two or three but can’t come up with the required amount of money to show for your visa would they really refuse you so you have to leave the country?

The attitude behind this seems to be that if you don’t have what they consider sufficient monies then you can’t support your family. How would refusing to let you stay be better for your family?

You are obviously taking care of your family but just can’t show what THEY consider an adequate amount of cash. If you are forced to leave then you have to try and support two homes, yours and the wifes, which would not be possible.

Would they really make you abandon your wife and kids?

Apart from the emotional tragedy for your wife and more so for the kids, are there not some human rights issue here?

If you live in BKK you don't have to show money to obtain extention 7.17(5) if you're over 50. This is support of a child extention. Move to BKK is the easiest option Edited October 9, 2008 by coventry

[richm7]

It's interesting that noone had brought up the fact that families are regularly split up in places like the UK, US, Australia etc due to one member being deported for not meeting that country's visa requirements.

But I don't suppose that's important, because those people being deported from the west are black, brown or yellow, whereas we are white and should naturally get special treatment.

Hmmmm. Visa applications come down to money and having the means to support ones self and ones family regardless of race in any given country.

Visa regulations are obviously much more liberal in the West. This can not be disputed.

To say that the western system is racist comapred to the thai system is simply laughable.

I wonder if Taksin is doing visa runs to France and having to report every 3 months. Oh, i forgot he is claiming asslyum.

It is simply not entirely true that it comes down to money. See my earlier post and the later post from coventry which references the actual ruling. If you are over 50 with a Thai child you do not have to show one satang, either as income or savings. That's because the child is supporting you in their eyes. How my 18 month old is supposed to do that I couldn't care less, but the little darlin' gets me a visa, which is what is the most important thing. I could get another type and show money here, but in the current banking climate I prefer my cash in Government insured accounts, than you very much.

[coventry]

Remember if you're over 50 with a Thai child you don't have to prove any income or savings. Best and easiest way to go if you're in that situation.

Richm7 you obviously live in BKK. Try doing the same at any other Immigration Office anywhere in Thailand and see if you can get this extention without a show of money.

[abdulrahman]

It's interesting that noone had brought up the fact that families are regularly split up in places like the UK, US, Australia etc due to one member being deported for not meeting that country's visa requirements.

But I don't suppose that's important, because those people being deported from the west are black, brown or yellow, whereas we are white and should naturally get special treatment.

VERY good point,we should first look at OUR countries shortcomings before condemning Thailand!

On the other side,in the countries you mentioned,and others too,you have the possibility to go to the Court,that will decide if you have a valid reason to be permitted to stay.In Thailand this is not so easy (yet).

[richm7]

Remember if you're over 50 with a Thai child you don't have to prove any income or savings. Best and easiest way to go if you're in that situation.

Richm7 you obviously live in BKK. Try doing the same at any other Immigration Office anywhere in Thailand and see if you can get this extention without a show of money.

Coventry.....fair comment, and yes I do live in BKK. Of course, the rule should be the same everywhere, but we know different, do we not? The regulation you quote does spell it out for them though, and the first time I went my wife had to give them shit because they often don't understand their own rules. I have to admit that had I gone alone or had a meeker wife I might well have had problems. As anyone living here knows, you can never be 100% sure!

[coventry]

Remember if you're over 50 with a Thai child you don't have to prove any income or savings. Best and easiest way to go if you're in that situation.

Richm7 you obviously live in BKK. Try doing the same at any other Immigration Office anywhere in Thailand and see if you can get this extention without a show of money.

Coventry.....fair comment, and yes I do live in BKK. Of course, the rule should be the same everywhere, but we know different, do we not? The regulation you quote does spell it out for them though, and the first time I went my wife had to give them shit because they often don't understand their own rules. I have to admit that had I gone alone or had a meeker wife I might well have had problems. As anyone living here knows, you can never be 100% sure!

If I had the money I would throw down the challenge to Sunbelt. "Okay you can get people extentions under rule 7.17(5)in BKK without a show of money, but come up to Korat and do the same. If you can I'll pay your fees. If you can't then walk away without". A no win no pay situation. I some how doubt, even if I had the money, they'd take up the challenge. But it's the only way forward in that we need someone out in the woods with a few balls. Edited October 9, 2008 by coventry

[richm7]

Remember if you're over 50 with a Thai child you don't have to prove any income or savings. Best and easiest way to go if you're in that situation.

Richm7 you obviously live in BKK. Try doing the same at any other Immigration Office anywhere in Thailand and see if you can get this extention without a show of money.

Coventry.....fair comment, and yes I do live in BKK. Of course, the rule should be the same everywhere, but we know different, do we not? The regulation you quote does spell it out for them though, and the first time I went my wife had to give them shit because they often don't understand their own rules. I have to admit that had I gone alone or had a meeker wife I might well have had problems. As anyone living here knows, you can never be 100% sure!

If I had the money I would throw down the challenge to Sunbelt. "Okay you can get people extentions under rule 7.17(5)in BKK without a show of money, but come up to Korat and do the same. If you can I'll pay your fees. If you can't then walk away without". A no win no pay situation. I some how doubt, even if I had the money, they'd take up the challenge. But it's the only way forward in that we need someone out in the woods with a few balls.

It seems that Sunbelt might well have defined the interpretation of the rule for the office here in Suan Phlu! I did get my wife to read the Thai version and the translation seems to be accurate, so there really is no excuse for any office choosing their own interpretation. Sadly though, they do, so we end up being stuck. I do wonder though that if you live in Korat, why not make the trip (twice!) with the wife and kid(s) (you really need them in tow) and do it in BKK? It's only 3 hours after all. Make a night of it and we'll have a few drinks!

[coventry]

Remember if you're over 50 with a Thai child you don't have to prove any income or savings. Best and easiest way to go if you're in that situation.

Richm7 you obviously live in BKK. Try doing the same at any other Immigration Office anywhere in Thailand and see if you can get this extention without a show of money.

Coventry.....fair comment, and yes I do live in BKK. Of course, the rule should be the same everywhere, but we know different, do we not? The regulation you quote does spell it out for them though, and the first time I went my wife had to give them shit because they often don't understand their own rules. I have to admit that had I gone alone or had a meeker wife I might well have had problems. As anyone living here knows, you can never be 100% sure!

If I had the money I would throw down the challenge to Sunbelt. "Okay you can get people extentions under rule 7.17(5)in BKK without a show of money, but come up to Korat and do the same. If you can I'll pay your fees. If you can't then walk away without". A no win no pay situation. I some how doubt, even if I had the money, they'd take up the challenge. But it's the only way forward in that we need someone out in the woods with a few balls.

It seems that Sunbelt might well have defined the interpretation of the rule for the office here in Suan Phlu! I did get my wife to read the Thai version and the translation seems to be accurate, so there really is no excuse for any office choosing their own interpretation. Sadly though, they do, so we end up being stuck. I do wonder though that if you live in Korat, why not make the trip (twice!) with the wife and kid(s) (you really need them in tow) and do it in BKK? It's only 3 hours after all. Make a night of it and we'll have a few drinks!

You can have all the interpretations of rule 7.17(5) in the world but, other than BKK, they will not issue this extention without a show of money. I cannot travel to BKK to get this extention as I now believe they've stated that you must get your visa/extention at you nearest immigration office. So therefore I'm commited. Thanks for the offer of drinks but I have to decline. Thanks anyway.

[Geekfreaklover]

Might be an idea to go overseas and apply at a Thai embassy for a new one year o.

I had to go to the uk ealier in the year as my sister was getting wed. whilst over there my Thai visa had almost expired so applied for a non-0. Only documentation required was a complleted application form and my son's birth certificate. Easy.

If you need to stay in Bangkok - could you not enroll in a Thai langaue course and get an education visa.

Seems to be a few ways around it.

[richm7]

Remember if you're over 50 with a Thai child you don't have to prove any income or savings. Best and easiest way to go if you're in that situation.

Richm7 you obviously live in BKK. Try doing the same at any other Immigration Office anywhere in Thailand and see if you can get this extention without a show of money.

Coventry.....fair comment, and yes I do live in BKK. Of course, the rule should be the same everywhere, but we know different, do we not? The regulation you quote does spell it out for them though, and the first time I went my wife had to give them shit because they often don't understand their own rules. I have to admit that had I gone alone or had a meeker wife I might well have had problems. As anyone living here knows, you can never be 100% sure!

If I had the money I would throw down the challenge to Sunbelt. "Okay you can get people extentions under rule 7.17(5)in BKK without a show of money, but come up to Korat and do the same. If you can I'll pay your fees. If you can't then walk away without". A no win no pay situation. I some how doubt, even if I had the money, they'd take up the challenge. But it's the only way forward in that we need someone out in the woods with a few balls.

It seems that Sunbelt might well have defined the interpretation of the rule for the office here in Suan Phlu! I did get my wife to read the Thai version and the translation seems to be accurate, so there really is no excuse for any office choosing their own interpretation. Sadly though, they do, so we end up being stuck. I do wonder though that if you live in Korat, why not make the trip (twice!) with the wife and kid(s) (you really need them in tow) and do it in BKK? It's only 3 hours after all. Make a night of it and we'll have a few drinks!

You can have all the interpretations of rule 7.17(5) in the world but, other than BKK, they will not issue this extention without a show of money. I cannot travel to BKK to get this extention as I now believe they've stated that you must get your visa/extention at you nearest immigration office. So therefore I'm commited. Thanks for the offer of drinks but I have to decline. Thanks anyway.

What do they ask for in Korat in terms of proof? 40k a month? 400k in the bank? They are obviously mixing their rules up. Somebody needs to sort them out. Up to the challenge, Sunbelt?

[astral]

Give up the Ghost and take your Family to your Home.

Thailand's not Europe or a Democrised modern Country. Thailand's Thailand. The same rules don't apply.

Take them Home and keep the LOS for a holiday

If the OP cannot afford to keep his family in Thailand, what chance does he stand

back home, where the cost of living is so much higher.

It is a sad dilemma indeed.

[bina]

in 'our' countries u dont need a certain amount every year??? really,

i have to show 6 months salary (well kibbutznik so i show budget) to prove for my husband's visa here, and yes, they will split up families no problem, it happens all the time... maybe u guys are all naive and never tried to get visa for your wives when u were in the lower social economic brackets, or u all know how to finagle things... thailand sounds about similar to many countries and human rights has nothing to go on... they arent discriminating based on colour or religious, just financial criterion that they set...

bina

israel

[Maestro]

If Daffy D were so kind as to post his age there would have to be fewer posts starting with “if he is over 50”

--

Maestro

[coventry]

What do they ask for in Korat in terms of proof? 40k a month? 400k in the bank? They are obviously mixing their rules up. Somebody needs to sort them out. Up to the challenge, Sunbelt?

It's not just Korat that needs sorting out. I know of no Immigration office in Thailand that will issue extention 7.17(5) without a show of money, except BKK. What do they require as proof in Korat ? Let me start by saying that in Nov 2007 Sebastian ( Isaan Lawyers ) said in in a post on www.koratfarang.com that Korat Immigration will accept 100,000 baht as the figure, or words to that affect. But money has to be shown. I phoned Korat Immigration prior to going and I asked them how much they wanted to see. The officer skirted around the question in asking me what visa did I have for last year ? I replied Retirement showing 800,000 in the bank. He mocked me asking why I haven't got 800,000 in the bank this year ? I tried to explain my financial position but all I seemed to get was laughter when I said that this year I don't have the money for that extention. But I have the qualifications to get extention 7.17(5). He said I have to show money even though this man knows that in BKK they don't show money. He asked how much I could show. So I said 100,000 as per Sebastians post 2007. He laughed and said 200,000 would be okay.

When I asked what other documents were required he never asked for a marriage certificate. I pointed this out. He then said " you're married ?" He then said he couldn't do it for me as I had to be divorced or a widower. I argued the toss and he just said just bring all your paperwork.

The rest of the story can be seen on my thread regarding rule 7.17(5)

The really stupid thing about all this is that the guy in Korat actually phones BKK and lets me speak to some top man, who varifies the show of money. But in reality they issue it in BKK without the show. Hypocrisy springs to mind.