Former Minister Openly Calling For Military Coup.

[soundman]

Thailand lacks 1 main ingredient and thats LEADERSHIP.

Nobody in this country knows how to show the people the way to improve their lives.

Nor talks about how to earn more more legally.

Nor How to get off minimum wage.

Everybody would work harder if they knew they would get a xmas bonus at the end of the year.

Give people incentive! Where is the incentive in this country?

I think this Country needs a leader like a celebrity, I have a few names

Palapon (thats me & Palapon @ Sydney)

Bird Thongchai

The Thais only seem to be interested in Music & Thai Drama so let's give it a try.

What could be worse than another 10 years of the same old Thai Politics? Coup yes Please.

Yeah, I could just imagine Add Carabou and Ekachai Sirichai running the country.

The question of leadership? If a coup seems justified, will Anupong be the man to see it through?

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand lacks 1 main ingredient and thats LEADERSHIP.

Nobody in this country knows how to show the people the way to improve their lives.

Nor talks about how to earn more more legally.

Nor How to get off minimum wage.

Everybody would work harder if they knew they would get a xmas bonus at the end of the year.

Give people incentive! Where is the incentive in this country?

I think this Country needs a leader like a celebrity, I have a few names

Palapon (thats me & Palapon @ Sydney)

Bird Thongchai

The Thais only seem to be interested in Music & Thai Drama so let's give it a try.

What could be worse than another 10 years of the same old Thai Politics? Coup yes Please.

Yeah, I could just imagine Add Carabou and Ekachai Sirichai running the country.

The question of leadership? If a coup seems justified, will Anupong be the man to see it through?

It would have to be him. He would have to do it and get it right this time.

BUT, they have one massive problem. As he has said, they can't appear to support one side or the other. He might be able to make the initial takeover look impartial, but it would be absolutely essential that any changes they implement to the political system would have to be impartial too. Therefore, implementing the PAD side of 'New Politics" would be spun as being partial and it would be almost impossible to deny. Likewise, doing anything that maintains the status quo would put the PAD's nose out of joint.

The courts would have to go about arresting and prosecuting all wrongdoers on all sides even handedly or there would again be accusations of partiality that would remain.

It would then be an even worse situation. A country with and army government storing up even more hatred waiting for it be unleashed the minute they step back.

Leadership. Hmmm. There is only one universally popular family in the country, and long may they remain so.

All the political heads have a huge problem understanding that they are supposed to govern the entire country, not just provide for their voters. These belief's are now well engrained.

Dissolution and a new election is probably the only effective way out. Bring in independent observers and hand out as many yellow and red cards as are needed. Process the cases impartially and rapidly. This country needs a functioning govt in this time of world economic turmoil. In that meantime, someone (and I think we know who)would have to sit all vested interests down privately and tell them to respect whatever result is generated and he has had quite enough of people on both sides dragging the country through the mud.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[PeaceBlondie]

I vote for Bird for Premier! Or, for Big Bird of Sesame Street.

[Crushdepth]

Democracy empowers all the people and a coup places the power with a few privileged people. Forget all the discussion of class and education being Thai culture and envision another Myanmar. Thailand has made great strides (financially and world respect) during its brief periods when Democracy was allowed to flourish

I agree with you in principle, but the problem is that Thailand hasn't got a functional democracy yet. The system is far too open to abuse by the 'democratic' government of the day, and allows a privileged few to gather more power and privileges into their own hands. That's why we still have Thaksin's brother in law as Prime Minister!

Another coup won't solve the underlying problem which is *poor governance*. A lot of people think that democracy = voting but actually democracy = voting + good governance. You can't have one without the other. The rules need to be tightened up to contain the power of politicians once they are elected.

[wrecker]

sounds like big jiew has aspirations to be caretaker prime minister....

We all know how it ends. when Chavalit will not be made prime minister just as last time when Suchinda became PM, he will switch sides immediately and create trouble with his old buddy Chamlong. Chavalit is many times more dangerous than Thaksin. Without bthe help of Chavalit Thaksin would never have become PM in the ifrst place as the courts would have banned him for 5 years for concealing assets. It was Chavalit who used his influence on the courts.

But you are right. Big Jiew always see his chances when a coup occurs.

[h90]

Democracy empowers all the people and a coup places the power with a few privileged people. Forget all the discussion of class and education being Thai culture and envision another Myanmar. Thailand has made great strides (financially and world respect) during its brief periods when Democracy was allowed to flourish

I agree with you in principle, but the problem is that Thailand hasn't got a functional democracy yet. The system is far too open to abuse by the 'democratic' government of the day, and allows a privileged few to gather more power and privileges into their own hands. That's why we still have Thaksin's brother in law as Prime Minister!

Another coup won't solve the underlying problem which is *poor governance*. A lot of people think that democracy = voting but actually democracy = voting + good governance. You can't have one without the other. The rules need to be tightened up to contain the power of politicians once they are elected.

That governance problem is a result of vote buying. If the governance is bad parties does not get elected again in normal countries. While here they know they can make what they want, they get elected again if they push 200 Baht over the table (and that they won't get elected if they don't do it).

[Thai at Heart]

Democracy empowers all the people and a coup places the power with a few privileged people. Forget all the discussion of class and education being Thai culture and envision another Myanmar. Thailand has made great strides (financially and world respect) during its brief periods when Democracy was allowed to flourish

I agree with you in principle, but the problem is that Thailand hasn't got a functional democracy yet. The system is far too open to abuse by the 'democratic' government of the day, and allows a privileged few to gather more power and privileges into their own hands. That's why we still have Thaksin's brother in law as Prime Minister!

Another coup won't solve the underlying problem which is *poor governance*. A lot of people think that democracy = voting but actually democracy = voting + good governance. You can't have one without the other. The rules need to be tightened up to contain the power of politicians once they are elected.

That governance problem is a result of vote buying. If the governance is bad parties does not get elected again in normal countries. While here they know they can make what they want, they get elected again if they push 200 Baht over the table (and that they won't get elected if they don't do it).

After the last few months of trouble, they might not have to pay! These so called up country folk aren't half as unsophisticated as people think.

[h90]

Democracy empowers all the people and a coup places the power with a few privileged people. Forget all the discussion of class and education being Thai culture and envision another Myanmar. Thailand has made great strides (financially and world respect) during its brief periods when Democracy was allowed to flourish

I agree with you in principle, but the problem is that Thailand hasn't got a functional democracy yet. The system is far too open to abuse by the 'democratic' government of the day, and allows a privileged few to gather more power and privileges into their own hands. That's why we still have Thaksin's brother in law as Prime Minister!

Another coup won't solve the underlying problem which is *poor governance*. A lot of people think that democracy = voting but actually democracy = voting + good governance. You can't have one without the other. The rules need to be tightened up to contain the power of politicians once they are elected.

That governance problem is a result of vote buying. If the governance is bad parties does not get elected again in normal countries. While here they know they can make what they want, they get elected again if they push 200 Baht over the table (and that they won't get elected if they don't do it).

After the last few months of trouble, they might not have to pay! These so called up country folk aren't half as unsophisticated as people think.

wonderful than the premier could dissolve house and has an election without vote buying.....

Just a have some doubts.

[Ricardo]

A Military Coup will show the world just how LOW the political situation has got.

And that somebody who started the week as a Deputy-PM and part of the government, now openly calls for a coup, shows the world just how low the government has got.

That the general from the army takes the trouble, to explain on TV why he thinks this would be a bad step, shows the world that the Thai military are capable of learning from experience.

[khunjamespittman]

I really think that perhaps it is time for the military to stop the violence and clear the PAD themselves from Government House. Ever since the PAD started dominating the Thai political scene the country has been going down hill. Somchai has no balls or ability to do that.

Oh really?

I had a slight impression that the country was going downhill far before the PAD stepped in.

This and the latter government were only busy trying to change the constitution for opening up the way..........

A people gets the government they deserve.

A government gets the opposition they deserve.

It appears that some of the leaders of Thailand are willing to sacrifice the freedom of the masses of Thailand people in exchange for a high position including the trappings of wealth and power that they hope would fall on them with a coup.

Democracy empowers all the people and a coup places the power with a few privileged people. Forget all the discussion of class and education being Thai culture and envision another Myanmar. Thailand has made great strides (financially and world respect) during its brief periods when Democracy was allowed to flourish.

I am sad that it appears that some in Thailand seem to be willing to sacrifice the country and keep the masses in a lower class to insure their perceived superiority.

Except what you describe is already the case a few elites control the country.

One bunch actually because of something more or less resembling a poll,

but effectively just a political machine control mechanism.

Like from the movie Gangs of New York, which this whole scenario so oddly resembles.

There is too much money to be made by too many

for any kind of Myanmar situation to transpire.

There also isn't the mental illness derived army culture in the same mad fashion.

I am more worried about loss of general well being, than decent in to the 7th ring of hel_l.

When was this time when "democracy was allowed to flourish"?

It is a post 19th century feudalist society grappling

with one foot in the 19th and one toe in the 21st.

No wonder the're blinking confused!

Thank you for your comments.

I have no doubt that I can never convince you that Democracy,given a chance, will work. A Democracy is not intended to make you happy with the results. It is to allow the majority of citizens to assemble around the people that they want to be their leaders and help determine their destiny. You have every right in a Democracy to disagree with their selection. Your alternative if you want your desired leader to win an election is to convince a majority of citizens that you are correct. It is unwise to destroy the very Democracy that provides you with an opportunity to choose the leaders that you believe would do what you want and by the I hope you would also like to make the country prosper.

As for your comment about when Thailand had prospered. You only have to look back a few years ago when all of Asia was talking about modeling themselves after Thailand because Thailand's growth was far outpacing the rest of world and had even contemplated creating an Asia-wide entity to help implement Thailand's economic policies. As I recall, at the time, there was much discussion amongst the Asia leaders to ask the PM of Thailand to fill this position.

It appears that some people have a failing memory about anything except their immediate gratification. Everyone should contribute to improvement rather than attack and counter attack.

[Plus]

allow the majority of citizens to assemble around the people that they want to be their leaders and help determine their destiny.

That's not how it works in Thailand, not in the rural areas under complete dominance of locally strong political parties, be it South for Democrats, Suphan for Chart Thai, or Isan for TRT/PPP.

[animatic]

I do not want a coup.

At the same time I do want the TRT/PPP political machine dismantled

so that the people of Thailand and in particular Issan can get all sides of the story

and make informed votes possible, not gerrymandered blocks of Puyai's

jockying for power positions they are not qualified for...

The current dregs of TRT /PPP as a new party will be

as incompetent as the current bunch has been.

The comment was not about Thailand prospering, it has for various periods.

But was about "democracy flourishing" here. This golden age has yet to exist.

There have been some limited improvements. But the feudal ways hold sway

in the country side more than the city in many ways.

21st century businesses getting supplied by 19th century agriculturials

Thaksin 1 was the 1st government EVER to go full term, and then win re-election too.

But sadly it also was clear that this went to Dr. T.s head in a big way.

And that is more sad because he DID have a lot of promise: unfulfilled.

I started out as a VERY big fan of Dr. T. but that faded the more I learned of him.

Leadership needs to be WISE leadership. I wish Kuhn Somchai was under less,

familial control, I think he IS basically the type of man we normally would want

in the job, quiet, thoughtful, non-avaricious, but he has WAY too much baggage

and no porter coming to cart it away.

Changes in governments almost ALWAYS go between variations of existing elites.

The radical departure to an completely different bunch is usually accidental,

or pure luck of circumstances, weather and famines, even down to geographical issues during battle.

No matter the coup or not it won't be PAD or Issan people in charge after the army goes,

but another batch of the sharper elites doing it the Thai way.

It's not a cynical outlook, but it is not unrealistic.

Edited October 12, 2008 by animatic

[khunjamespittman]

allow the majority of citizens to assemble around the people that they want to be their leaders and help determine their destiny.

That's not how it works in Thailand, not in the rural areas under complete dominance of locally strong political parties, be it South for Democrats, Suphan for Chart Thai, or Isan for TRT/PPP.

Thanks for your comment.

I see many posts here that are very condescending to group (class) of people frequently referred to as rural or farmers. It is presumptuous to assume that we are in any way superior to any other person in our countries. Mutual respect is a far better relationship in a civilized world. Every farmer does not require a Phd in Political Science. If someone believes that a particular group doesn't have some necessity that would make them a more productive citizen (ie. from your implication, able to cast a better vote) then we should try to educate those persons so that the country would be a better place and they could could cast a more informed vote. Having achieved that we should not assume that these people will ever act or do everything we like. In a Democracy everyone has an equal right for their opinions and everyone deserves a mutual respect.

[Plus]

we should try to educate those persons

Who is this "we"? The elected MPs didn't get elected by educating their electorate, and we shouldn't expect them to change any time soon. Besides, things are so bad now that any anti-Democrat "education" in the South or anti-Thaksin in Isan can get you lynched in no time.

PAD has created and expanded their ASTV network precisely to "educate" the rural voters, to counter government propaganda on public channels. It has been successful to a degree, but pro-government MPs has turned up the heat on them, mobilising thousands of violent thugs, disrupting both PAD and Democrat rallies and meetings, creating havoc and taking law in their hands. Remember Udon Thani? Or how about Chiang Mai, Thailand's second largest city, they've set up road blocks and searched the cars for PAD supporters, they beat up Democrats with chairs, and, most recently, they demanded that doctors who signed a petition related to Chula incident should be handed to them for a little bit of "street justice".

Bottom line - politicians in charge won't let you anywhere near their voters, you can forget about "education" at this point.

[blaze]

allow the majority of citizens to assemble around the people that they want to be their leaders and help determine their destiny.

That's not how it works in Thailand, not in the rural areas under complete dominance of locally strong political parties, be it South for Democrats, Suphan for Chart Thai, or Isan for TRT/PPP.

Thanks for your comment.

I see many posts here that are very condescending to group (class) of people frequently referred to as rural or farmers. It is presumptuous to assume that we are in any way superior to any other person in our countries. Mutual respect is a far better relationship in a civilized world. Every farmer does not require a Phd in Political Science. If someone believes that a particular group doesn't have some necessity that would make them a more productive citizen (ie. from your implication, able to cast a better vote) then we should try to educate those persons so that the country would be a better place and they could could cast a more informed vote. Having achieved that we should not assume that these people will ever act or do everything we like. In a Democracy everyone has an equal right for their opinions and everyone deserves a mutual respect.

You think there's civil strife now? Just watch what the reaction of the urban middle and upper classes would be to the outcome of an election wherein the poor of this country put aside their regional differences and cast truly informed votes- votes supporting a genuine champion of the poor majority. A truly educated rural vote would - and probably eventually will (hence the perceived need for a New Politics)- result in the kind of governments we now see in much of Latin America- wherein THaksin's paltry attempts at populism will be looked back on (fondly) as nothing more than crumbs that didn't really hurt the tax paying minority too much at all.

[Martin]

Post #13 said: "Meanwhile Thaksin's money sits in the bank and that is what most of this is about."

Oh,no, it isn't.

What lies behind all this is jockeying for position for when (-----that which the moderators wouldn't allow us to discuss----) occurs.

Posts #50 and #53 are 'about as close to the wind as it is possible to sail' here.

Read your Thailand-nation history for the past couple of hundred years. I recommend "Thailand--a short history" by David Wyatt. That'll show you a pattern of when political crisis always occurs. (Though there may be other 'glitches' within the pattern).

[animatic]

we should try to educate those persons

Who is this "we"? The elected MPs didn't get elected by educating their electorate, and we shouldn't expect them to change any time soon. Besides, things are so bad now that any anti-Democrat "education" in the South or anti-Thaksin in Isan can get you lynched in no time.

PAD has created and expanded their ASTV network precisely to "educate" the rural voters, to counter government propaganda on public channels. It has been successful to a degree, but pro-government MPs has turned up the heat on them, mobilising thousands of violent thugs, disrupting both PAD and Democrat rallies and meetings, creating havoc and taking law in their hands. Remember Udon Thani? Or how about Chiang Mai, Thailand's second largest city, they've set up road blocks and searched the cars for PAD supporters, they beat up Democrats with chairs, and, most recently, they demanded that doctors who signed a petition related to Chula incident should be handed to them for a little bit of "street justice".

Bottom line - politicians in charge won't let you anywhere near their voters, you can forget about "education" at this point.

Hence my comments on dismantling the politcal machine covering the north.

There is much more controling of peoples minds up there than the rest of the country.

It is not that the people can't think for themselves,

they are blocked from knowing of their potential choices.

Or actualizing them.

The USA had similar machines, Chicago right through Mayor Dailely's 60-70's

New York in the 1800's, Boston too, and many other places.

A classic is Meet John Doe, about doing this in in rural areas.

Eventually the prevalence was reduced, but even Ohio and Florida

in the last presidential elections suffered from political machines controling voters.

But the situation in Northern Thailand is still in an older larger more primative and brutal form.

It MUST be brought under control for true democracy to be inculcated here.

It is not an unusual phenomenon. Nor restricted to poor issan farmers.

Edited October 13, 2008 by animatic

[cmsally]

Post #13 said: "Meanwhile Thaksin's money sits in the bank and that is what most of this is about."

Oh,no, it isn't.

What lies behind all this is jockeying for position for when (-----that which the moderators wouldn't allow us to discuss----) occurs.

Posts #50 and #53 are 'about as close to the wind as it is possible to sail' here.

Read your Thailand-nation history for the past couple of hundred years. I recommend "Thailand--a short history" by David Wyatt. That'll show you a pattern of when political crisis always occurs. (Though there may be other 'glitches' within the pattern).

In reply to the top bit, it most certainly is and the rest too.

Yes, I have read David Wyatts history of Thailand and a whole lot more. Of course we are in something of a glitch as the history books don't record the present moment.

Unfortunately at the moment we have many problems that have been on the boil for a long time and are not easily solved.

It's really going to take a shake up of the whole society and attitude of its leaders to improve anything.

[animatic]

Post #13 said: "Meanwhile Thaksin's money sits in the bank and that is what most of this is about."

Oh,no, it isn't.

What lies behind all this is jockeying for position for when (-----that which the moderators wouldn't allow us to discuss----) occurs.

Posts #50 and #53 are 'about as close to the wind as it is possible to sail' here.

Read your Thailand-nation history for the past couple of hundred years. I recommend "Thailand--a short history" by David Wyatt. That'll show you a pattern of when political crisis always occurs. (Though there may be other 'glitches' within the pattern).

In reply to the top bit, it most certainly is and the rest too.

Yes, I have read David Wyatts history of Thailand and a whole lot more. Of course we are in something of a glitch as the history books don't record the present moment.

Unfortunately at the moment we have many problems that have been on the boil for a long time and are not easily solved.

It's really going to take a shake up of the whole society and attitude of its leaders to improve anything.

I have read this too.

Sally I hate to say this. But I finally see you agreeing with PAD.

Your last sentence; I see it this is their position too.

You no doubt disagree on the implementation, but now appear to have the same goal.

Land O Goshen

[cmsally]

Post #13 said: "Meanwhile Thaksin's money sits in the bank and that is what most of this is about."

Oh,no, it isn't.

What lies behind all this is jockeying for position for when (-----that which the moderators wouldn't allow us to discuss----) occurs.

Posts #50 and #53 are 'about as close to the wind as it is possible to sail' here.

Read your Thailand-nation history for the past couple of hundred years. I recommend "Thailand--a short history" by David Wyatt. That'll show you a pattern of when political crisis always occurs. (Though there may be other 'glitches' within the pattern).

In reply to the top bit, it most certainly is and the rest too.

Yes, I have read David Wyatts history of Thailand and a whole lot more. Of course we are in something of a glitch as the history books don't record the present moment.

Unfortunately at the moment we have many problems that have been on the boil for a long time and are not easily solved.

It's really going to take a shake up of the whole society and attitude of its leaders to improve anything.

I have read this too.

Sally I hate to say this. But I finally see you agreeing with PAD.

Your last sentence; I see it this is their position too.

You no doubt disagree on the implementation, but now appear to have the same goal.

Land O Goshen

Then I am afraid you have severely misunderstood me.

The PAD stand for the elite and would be a step backwards from any major change.

I don't see the PAD as standing for the people and a better a future.

To a certain extent the same can be said of the other side, but because of various factors they seem to be the lesser of 2 evils, partly because it means adhering to the electoral system.

[animatic]

I just read your words.

[geriatrickid]

I think this Country needs a leader like a celebrity, I have a few names

Palapon (thats me & Palapon @ Sydney)

Bird Thongchai

What could be worse than another 10 years of the same old Thai Politics? Coup yes Please.

I thing Girly Berry are up for the job. Tell me one guy that wouldn't sit up erect and pay attention when these girls were giving the orders

But you know you aren't so far off, Modern Dog has 3 intelligent guys in it. Ipod is a talented artist as well and thinks out of the box. Sometimes all we get exposed to are the usual recycled aural assaults in the tourist ghettos and we miss out on so many original intelligent Thai artists that are more responsible than the so called coservatives in government.

[animatic]

I think this Country needs a leader like a celebrity, I have a few names

Palapon (thats me & Palapon @ Sydney)

Bird Thongchai

What could be worse than another 10 years of the same old Thai Politics? Coup yes Please.

I thing Girly Berry are up for the job. Tell me one guy that wouldn't sit up erect and pay attention when these girls were giving the orders

But you know you aren't so far off, Modern Dog has 3 intelligent guys in it. Ipod is a talented artist as well and thinks out of the box. Sometimes all we get exposed to are the usual recycled aural assaults in the tourist ghettos and we miss out on so many original intelligent Thai artists that are more responsible than the so called coservatives in government.

Moderndog has a thinking leader. Met him, nice man and smart.

The country could do MUCH worse than him.

But he is smart enough NOT to want the job.

But if he did, and made Girly Berry joint Culture Ministers,

at least someone might listen to the culture minstry's pronouncements

for a change without laughing.

Probably should be eglaitarian and offer Venus Flytrap and gig too.

Edited October 13, 2008 by animatic

[Ricardo]

The PAD stand for the elite and would be a step backwards from any major change.

I don't see the PAD as standing for the people and a better a future.

To a certain extent the same can be said of the other side, but because of various factors they seem to be the lesser of 2 evils, partly because it means adhering to the electoral system.

cmsally, I would point out that the last time that TRT/PPP 'adherred to the electoral system', they ran an election so crooked that the EC annulled it. Nobody has clean hands here.

[animatic]

Back to the minister.

It says voiumes that :

a ) this guy can go from being in the government and in two days

to publicaly speaking unequivocal insurrection or even treasonous talk,

and yet NOTHING is done about him....

He advocates a coup d etate, and then walks on like nothing happened.

b ) The army ignores him completely.

c ) the government he just left ignores him completely.

but PAD was charged for the same or less, for months,

before it was finally dropped.

d ) but the UFD / DAAD etc are training for combat in public parks

e ) Armed street gangs were "protecting the police"

It seems there have been so many coups here that

it is not seen like in most countries as a hugely defining moment any more,

but just another corner,

just another mechanism to update the government.

Just another way to get at the trough of goodies at the top

Just something to wrap fish in for lunch the following day.

As westerners we look on and scream democracy is dieing,

yet the Thais seem to just look on and wrap their fish anew.

Of course there is some concern, but little sense that things

will change with either side winning the day.

I think the some of the polarization is partly from enui!

Too many just back the devil they know.

[hammered]

Post #13 said: "Meanwhile Thaksin's money sits in the bank and that is what most of this is about."

Oh,no, it isn't.

What lies behind all this is jockeying for position for when (-----that which the moderators wouldn't allow us to discuss----) occurs.

Posts #50 and #53 are 'about as close to the wind as it is possible to sail' here.

Read your Thailand-nation history for the past couple of hundred years. I recommend "Thailand--a short history" by David Wyatt. That'll show you a pattern of when political crisis always occurs. (Though there may be other 'glitches' within the pattern).

It is definitely about Thaksin money in as much as money equals politcis equals power ie Thaksins ability to play the gane. It has nothinh absolutely nothing to do with democracy and stuff like empowering the rural poor.

This is purely Thaksin versus the other lot for completer control of the whole dam_n shooting match and yes that involves the unspeakable and if you really want to know that is not much about the institution itself but more about the shall we say financial elements of the bureaucracy which at the end of thje day swamp all that Thaksin has although it would be something that Thaksin and his Singaporean allies and a few others would like to free up in a nice globalised society under their control and that is what this is all about

[Thai at Heart]

Post #13 said: "Meanwhile Thaksin's money sits in the bank and that is what most of this is about."

Oh,no, it isn't.

What lies behind all this is jockeying for position for when (-----that which the moderators wouldn't allow us to discuss----) occurs.

Posts #50 and #53 are 'about as close to the wind as it is possible to sail' here.

Read your Thailand-nation history for the past couple of hundred years. I recommend "Thailand--a short history" by David Wyatt. That'll show you a pattern of when political crisis always occurs. (Though there may be other 'glitches' within the pattern).

It is definitely about Thaksin money in as much as money equals politcis equals power ie Thaksins ability to play the gane. It has nothinh absolutely nothing to do with democracy and stuff like empowering the rural poor.

This is purely Thaksin versus the other lot for completer control of the whole dam_n shooting match and yes that involves the unspeakable and if you really want to know that is not much about the institution itself but more about the shall we say financial elements of the bureaucracy which at the end of thje day swamp all that Thaksin has although it would be something that Thaksin and his Singaporean allies and a few others would like to free up in a nice globalised society under their control and that is what this is all about

I think you may find that Temasek's business connections run far wider than just Thaksin.

[soundman]

d ) but the UFD / DAAD etc are training for combat in public parks

And according to the slide show pictures in Bangkok Post (sorry no link - just go to the site), calling themselves "King Taksin's warriors", in Sanahm Luang ground, parading around with wooden weapon replicas.

It appears the little emperor is starting to get his privately held goals out into the public arena. Guy is a few dozen slices short of a loaf if he thinks the Thai people are going to put up with that.

In training : Calling themselves the King Taksin warriors, security guards for the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship trained with wooden staves at Sanam Luang on Sunday. — Sarot Meksophawannakulslides: 1 2 3 4

Edit: - sorry - here it is.

Edited October 13, 2008 by soundman

[animatic]

Post #13 said: "Meanwhile Thaksin's money sits in the bank and that is what most of this is about."

Oh,no, it isn't.

What lies behind all this is jockeying for position for when (-----that which the moderators wouldn't allow us to discuss----) occurs.

Posts #50 and #53 are 'about as close to the wind as it is possible to sail' here.

Read your Thailand-nation history for the past couple of hundred years. I recommend "Thailand--a short history" by David Wyatt. That'll show you a pattern of when political crisis always occurs. (Though there may be other 'glitches' within the pattern).

It is definitely about Thaksin money in as much as money equals politcis equals power ie Thaksins ability to play the gane. It has nothinh absolutely nothing to do with democracy and stuff like empowering the rural poor.

This is purely Thaksin versus the other lot for completer control of the whole dam_n shooting match and yes that involves the unspeakable and if you really want to know that is not much about the institution itself but more about the shall we say financial elements of the bureaucracy which at the end of thje day swamp all that Thaksin has although it would be something that Thaksin and his Singaporean allies and a few others would like to free up in a nice globalised society under their control and that is what this is all about

I think you may find that Temasek's business connections run far wider than just Thaksin.

Oh that is quite clear they have very, very long arms,

and from reports a even handed management style; don't mess with what's not broken.

Thaksin no doubt wanted to tie in with this bunch big time.

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That governance problem is a result of vote buying. If the governance is bad parties does not get elected again in normal countries. While here they know they can make what they want, they get elected again if they push 200 Baht over the table (and that they won't get elected if they don't do it).

How many times do we have to tell you? You take the 200 baht & vote for whoever you like. It's still secret.