Is It Better To Hire A Male Or Female Manager?

[jamesbowen]

This is for a small condo building where by Thai law the condo community must have a Thai manager to manage the juristic entity. This means no Westerners, Japanese and so forth. The manager must be able to get along well with Westerners including a committee composed of Westerners directing him, should have some knowledge of accounting, be willing and able to supervise existing staff, be honest, and not look at his/her position as an opportunity to get a commission on every project or contract. Two examples of this might be a condo building insurance policy where the company providing the insurance gives the manager 10,000 baht to choose its policy over competing policies from other companies or starting one landscaping project after another where he gets a commission from a supplier of plants for every single plant or blade of grass purchased.

One German condo owner living here pointed out, "We won't be able to keep a manager, particularly a male, unless we keep providing an opportunity for him to steal from us." Another owner strongly suggested, "We need to hire a woman, not a man and we should look for this woman in Bangkok rather than hire her here in Pattaya where she will be working for us since in general people are more honest and not on the game."

One very good point the German owner made was "We need to target where we will be looking for our condo manager. Since the person needs to speak very good English we can look at service people already working in Pattaya presently working in hotels. Such people are constantly dealing with Westerners, are underpaid to start with, are used to working, and have to work very long hours for not very much money. So we offer this person half a day's work at similar wages." (Our manager would need to only work half a day as our condo community is not large).

The second condo owner made the very valid point that in Thailand women tend to work much harder than men and are paid much less to start with. If I were to make a generalization Thai men in general are coddled while women in general get the short end of the stick.

But here is a problem with searching for a woman manager, and particularly if we do our search for a manager in Pattaya. Pattaya is not typical of Thailand any more than Tombstone, Arizona was typical of the United States in 1881 when the Earps were gunning down the Clantons at the OK Corral and it was said a man or woman was shot or stabbed practically everyday. For U.S. boom towns in the old West, gold or silver sprung up overnight, and a disproportionate number of thieves, murderers, gamblers, prostitutes, con-men and other shady characters converged on them in search of the quick and easy buck. For Pattaya the gold is what I term "The Falang Game" where the easy buck is latching onto at least one foreign man in order to get as much money from him for family. And it's not just bar girls, it's the "nice girl" working a normal job or who sets up a shop or restaurant who finds it much higher paying or profitable to con and play her foreign boyfriends.

Hiring a woman to be a manager poses the risk that she will find "higher paying jobs" that will cause her to shirk her management duties or that she will get involved with condo owners here she perceives as being her meal ticket or at least as a source of supplementary cash for her family.

A problem with hiring a man is having to deal with that prickly male Thai ego. He's probably used to having his way since being in diapers. So when he has to deal with Westerners particularly the committee that he needs to be taking direction from, it often becomes a battle of wills. If you criticize his performance or try to tell him to do something he doesn't want to do, he will take it as a loss of face. And in Thailand if not in Asia in general face is primary, becoming far more important than getting the job done or making good decisions. This doesn't mean that all Thai males have this problem, but far too many of them do along with many Thai women for that matter. This is the problem with our current manager who sits in his airconditioned office, hardly ever venturing outside of it to supervise our cleaning, maintenance or security staff as he sits there saying to himself, "This is what managers do (nothing). All I have to do is look like one."

Some of you will have perhaps noticed that I recently started another post, the subject being "Professional Employment Agencies". One of my fellow committee members felt that we needed to have someone very objective do a lot of weeding out the unqualified or candidates who did not fill our critierial. This was after one fellow condo owner and I had interviewed an a rather attractive woman candidate who kept grabbing onto my hand or arm during the interview. Other mistakes followed that gave her away on how she would behave as manager. She had been recommended to me by a man who owns a business in Pattaya. After the incident I agreed with my fellow committee member that we should not be hiring someone who is a friend of a friend but instead take a more professional approach and to be willing to pay a little for taking it.

Edited October 12, 2008 by jamesbowen

[soundman]

If the particular condo doesn't have any problems like being in a shitty neighbourhood, is more up-class in design and therefore, by design, will have classier owners and tenants, and there isn't too much of a history of the local OBT, Thesabahn or police chasing down ficticious problems for under the table payments there would be no question about it in my mind.

Definately a 35+ woman with at least high school education from a stable family background.

That's not to say you won't get bitten by one in this demagraphic, however, IMO your chances are far better off than a 35 YO single male who wears nice sunglasses and is constantly modifing his S/H car or new motorcycle.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[473geo]

Ok....first thing you need to do is have a quick meeting and obtain agreement with all parties concerned as to the job requirement

Secondly.....agree with all parties...man or women...don't ask a pack of strangers...they do not have to live with the consequences of 'Your' decision.

Now you know what you require....

Go out and get it!!!

Best wishes

[PeaceBlondie]

With all due respect for the several farang men listed in the OP, their generalizations about Thai men, Thai women, Pattaya, etc., are subjective if not outright prejudiced opinions. In the West, condo management is a bonded profession. My first experience with condo managers in Thailand was shortly after I paid 20K baht down to live there, and the manager (a middle-aged Thai man) supposedly stole all the money. I was told to go lodge a criminal complaint against him, at the police dept! I got all my money because in fact he had not stolen it.

I question whether the condo owners and committee members have the professional knowledge to hire a condo manager.

[soundman]

One other thing I would ask from a perspective applicant is the ability to provide a personal guarantor (bragun dtua) for an estimated amount of any cash she/he might handle on a daily basis plus whatever else the "condo" would feel comfortable with, such as maybe cleaning supplies and diss-imbursement of petty cash to maintenace contractors.

Banks, 7/11's, most business's that have staff handling money ask for personal guarantee, so if stuff (like the daily takings come up short - not that this would be a regular thing with condo business) starts going missing, there is some re-course.

[473geo]

Petty cash.....

as above job function and agreement.

If you wish to insert a clause cash payments allowed...not allowed..do so in job description...company policy!

Set out what you require...with the agreement of the tennants...it can be done!...put all the effort in at the start.

once everybody 'buys in'.....you are set.

THEN....hire somebody

[jamesbowen]

Most of our cash is handled by a woman who has worked for us for 2.5 years and before us for the builder who she gained a good reputation with for her honesty. Our condo is using Quickbooks which will quickly identify problems, actual cash versus book imbalances, etc. The woman has done a pretty good job of learning Quickbooks. Our present manager never bothered to update it on his computer until I discovered this 2 months later. (So much for his office skills). The manager cannot get money out of our bank accounts without having the signature on a form of at least one committee member. One of the main problems with this manager is he does not do what our committee tells him to do and he is project happy. That is he keeps buying relatively small items or begins projects, or at least tries to all of which adds up. 4500 baht here, 1500 baht the next week, and so forth. Two of our committee members and this includes myself did not hire him and we never gave him a job description so he figures he can do what he wants. We recognize how important a job description is and a clear understanding of just what he/she cannot do but he feels protected by the third committee member who hired him. Also....there is a tradition in Thailand that if you fire a person for whatever reason you have to give him/her up to three months severance pay. Otherwise we could just say to him, "you will do this or not do this," and if he doesn't do what we tell him, that's it. Finished. He's gone. Next. That's the way it is in most Western countries. Unfortunately the same standards do not apply here. Right now we are leaning towards a woman, preferably an older gal 40 or older. I suppose one of the biggest hurdles is there is a lack of competition for such jobs. So if most managers fail to work well with Westerners, are commission happy, are lazy and so on, are protected by the custom of getting severance pay regardless of how poorly they perform, don't have any competition from other nationalities who can be a manager in the first place, the bar is set pretty low. It's like having an Olympic competition where the bar is set at 7 feet. To even compete you have to be able to jump at least 7 feet, but here the bar is set at 2 feet because of the factors I've described.

Petty cash.....

as above job function and agreement.

If you wish to insert a clause cash payments allowed...not allowed..do so in job description...company policy!

Set out what you require...with the agreement of the tennants...it can be done!...put all the effort in at the start.

once everybody 'buys in'.....you are set.

THEN....hire somebody

[jamesbowen]

Perhaps an excellent prospect just fell into our laps. Ironically a Thai male. I know the man already and he's a friend of a good American friend of mine so he's much more of a known quantity than someone who just appears on resume.

Anyone have any idea of what a hotel manager might be making with five or more than five years of experience? The hotel is modest in size. I'll get more details later but I'd say it's something like 25 rooms. It's also very modestly priced.....possibly $20 U.S. a night or a tad less than that.

[Naam]

vhat a kvestchon?! of kourse it should be a thai lady with huge big nom, a huge big dood and a tite h**! pleez bann me mods for yewsing der foul lankvitch. butt vee Klingons wizz tchermann tschenes and bludd in ower vains kann only zink off nom, dood und hoy oll day long vhen zere iss no var vhere vee kann fight vizz honour oond try to die bekause effry day iss a goodd day to die.

[jamesbowen]

Already went the nom yai route. A man I know has a business and he knew two Thai ladies he thought would be good candidates for manager. So one co-owner who's not on the committee and I held an informal interview of one of the two prospectives. She turned out to be pretty attractive with nom yai but during the course of our interview she kept grabbing my hands, or arms in that tenderly feminine suggestive way that announced, "Hey big boy. You give me job, I take good care of you." And that was that. Business and pleasure do not do well together in such cases, or to put it another way, "Do not s--t where you eat."

[torrenova]

I concur about the security deposit but wonder if you can actually get it in cash instead of some meaningless guarantee.

I also concur about a woman but she must be unencumbered with young kids. Grown up kids are ok as is no kids but with a young family around her, her mind will falter.

Keep away from recommendations unless it is of the highest calibre such as a very competent cashier who has management training and has proven this in business. Hen's teeth are more plentiful !

Don't pay too much to start or they will just sit on their <deleted> but make it known that bonuses are available and progression is there for those willing to commit.

What about someone who works for or worked for a reputable real estate agent ? It would be a step up the corporate ladder, less hours (they work crazy long hours) but could be less money (maybe not in the current economy). Perhaps someone coming back to the labour market after raising kids at least old enough to go to "big" school.

Chuck an advert in the paper and see what you get back, like in Pattaya I'd use the Pattaya Mail. If they cannot read English then it is a non starter !

You will have to decide whether to accept some fiddles or whether you want 100% accuracy. If you force too much then I think you run the risk of them doing more damage financially.

Not an easy task I agree and I think you'll have to look hard and long. If using an agent, double check references and make your contract with th agent clear that if she does not perform during a probationary period and is released, then you do not have to pay the agent's final fees. Never pay all up front on on successful hire.

[jamesbowen]

I concur about the security deposit but wonder if you can actually get it in cash instead of some meaningless guarantee.

I also concur about a woman but she must be unencumbered with young kids. Grown up kids are ok as is no kids but with a young family around her, her mind will falter.

Keep away from recommendations unless it is of the highest calibre such as a very competent cashier who has management training and has proven this in business. Hen's teeth are more plentiful !

Don't pay too much to start or they will just sit on their <deleted> but make it known that bonuses are available and progression is there for those willing to commit.

What about someone who works for or worked for a reputable real estate agent ? It would be a step up the corporate ladder, less hours (they work crazy long hours) but could be less money (maybe not in the current economy). Perhaps someone coming back to the labour market after raising kids at least old enough to go to "big" school.

Chuck an advert in the paper and see what you get back, like in Pattaya I'd use the Pattaya Mail. If they cannot read English then it is a non starter !

You will have to decide whether to accept some fiddles or whether you want 100% accuracy. If you force too much then I think you run the risk of them doing more damage financially.

Not an easy task I agree and I think you'll have to look hard and long. If using an agent, double check references and make your contract with th agent clear that if she does not perform during a probationary period and is released, then you do not have to pay the agent's final fees. Never pay all up front on on successful hire.

One idea is to offer a salary that is less than what it will be 6 months later. Eg...if the agency gets 2000 baht pay 2000 baht less salary and consider this a probationary period. If the employee works out okay, up her wages in six months 2000 baht. That way she pays the agency's fee although it is not stated this way. And definitely a probationary period to avoid having to pay severance pay.

[yabaaaa]

Ohhhhh this is very interesting my wife is looking at such a job now in Bangkok she has taken care of our condos 4 in all for 2 years and also is on the residents committee at this complex so Knows whats going on and how things are done. The job she's going for is "assistant manageress" and she has told them she wants no less than 20000 baht per month -6day week, ive told her tell them 25000 for 6 days so does anyone know what this sort of job merits salary wise.

She has been called back for a second interview so we will see what happens. She will be taking care of 640 units.

[yabaaaa]

Full story of interview here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Floraville-O...ad-t222035.html

its no wonder many buildings are falling apart with owners like this running them.