Cambodia Threatens War With Thailand Within 24 Hours

[jamesjdaly]

http://preahvihear.com/

What a fun website.

I notice they referred to the Khmer Rouge as the Khmer Rogue!! Very apt!!

Edited October 16, 2008 by jamesjdaly

[Plus]

Siam is such a bad looser, now they want to go to war over 1.8 sp miles of waste Jungle. The Khmer should not have taken prisoners. The Simese never did; two Khmer is already dead.

Who wants to go to war? I see only Hun Sen sable rattling, not Thais.

And your language is borderline xenophobic, keep going like this and you'll lose all credibility.

[mdechgan]

Rank 14

Thailand

Active Personnel 306,600[23]

Reserve Force 200,000[24]

Paramilitary 113,700[25]

Total 625,300

Active troops per thousand citizens 4.80

Rank 37

Cambodia

Active Personnel 124,300[66]

Reserve Force 0[67]

Paramilitary 67,000[67]

Total 191,000

Active troops per thousand citizens 9.19

Source:

List of countries ranked by number of active troops

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...f_active_troops

Another source says that as of 2006, Thailand had about 333 main battle tanks and 950 armored personnel carriers, whereas Cambodia had about 150 tanks and 190 APCs.

Also as of 2006, Thailand was reported to have a bit over 550 military combat aircraft (fixed wing and rotary) spread among the different services, whereas Cambodia was reported to have just 24 Air Force fixed wing combat aircraft and 18 Air Force combat helicopters.

In terms of navies, Thailand was reported to have about 210 naval combat ships and vessels of all varieties, whereas Cambodia was said to have just 10 patrol boats.

And, I should have added, the report also estimated that as of 2006, Thailand was spending about $2 billion per year on its military, compared to about $75 million for Cambodia.

Source:

http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/060626...ance_powers.pdf

Thailand is 14th in the world, not bad. Comparing we rank lower regarding politics, finance, economy, freedoms, coruption, etc.

However Thailand was well favored against Laos in the early 80's which Thai decisively lost.

Edited October 16, 2008 by mdechgan

[jdinasia]

Siam is such a bad looser, now they want to go to war over 1.8 sp miles of waste Jungle. The Khmer should not have taken prisoners. The Simese never did; two Khmer is already dead.

Who wants to go to war? I see only Hun Sen sable rattling, not Thais.

And your language is borderline xenophobic, keep going like this and you'll lose all credibility.

Haven't found the ignore function yet, Plus?

[stepenwolf1958]

Guys, are you serious???Anyone wanna bet there WILL BE NO WAR?All of this is just shooting blanks.Not even close to war and i am wondering what the Thais will do now?They have ultimatum and in HOURS, so i am really wondering how far Thais can go with this messy situation. As far as i know them, they will understand that the last thing on this war, with internall problems, would be some war.

I am waiting for bets. For sure there is no any good war - both sides know that....Incidents yes but WAR???I doubt it.

When it comes to Thai border spats, it's never full out "war" in the normal sense of the word, but rather a series of skirmishes at particular hotspots which may lead to a number of casualties on both sides. The Ban Rom Klao spat in 1987/88 was probably the worst one in recent memory, as it led to far more casualties on the Thai side than the Lao (assisted by some Vietnamese) and like now, was basically over business deals gone awry (there logs, here casinos and split of tourist booty) for some generals & poo yai. Ordinary Thais were kept in the dark though over Rom Klao (news blackout), whereas here the media is central to the nationalist game played by both sides. What the eventual outcome will be is anyone's guess and how many soldiers must die over a pile of rocks and a few hundred square metres of scrubby forest, but again deals will be cut behind closed doors that the general public and media will not be privvy to in deciding who gets what from the spoils of "war by any other name".

Thanks mate.As i can see you are deep in matters about this country so i would like you (anybody) tell me what was the early beginning of all this mess about piece of land? Ordinary Thais telling me that Samak gave that piece of land. Is hat so? I really don't know about how all of this begun. Regards...Here, in Lopburi, aircrafts are very active...Thais told me it is not common situations and it is some week or two ago...

[mdechgan]

I can see 2 senarios to this problem:

1. JDA (Joint Development Area). Build large casio & entertainmant complex; Las Vegas II if you like. Split the sin tax between the 2 governments. There is a similar deal between Thailand & Malaysia, where they split the hydrocarbon finds between the 2 in the disputed sea. Toxin may want to invest with proceeds from the ManCity sales.

2. Mine (I mean land mine) every square inch of the disputed area, so that neither country can benefit. Princess Diana will be most sad if Thailand & Cambodia undo all her work clearing mine field.

3. Bomb and napalm the entire area including the temple so nothing remains and the temple and its grounds will not longer be an issue because it will no longer exist. Therefore it will just be 4.6sqkm of very low value land.

[LuckyFive8888]

http://preahvihear.com/

What a fun website.

I notice they referred to the Khmer Rouge as the Khmer Rogue!! Very apt!!

is this another funny site!

[mdechgan]

I found this to be quite interesting.

(BangkokPost.com, TNA) - The Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs said foreign diplomats expressed their understanding about the border situation between Thailand and Cambodia. However, it was noted that Cambodian and Philippine envoys did not attend the briefing on Wednesday morning.

Department of Information director-general and Foreign Ministry spokesman Tharit Charungvat said Permanent Secretary for Foreign Affairs Veerasak Futrakul spent about 45 minutes to clarify the Thai-Cambodian border dispute to eight Asean ambassadors to Thailand.

According to Mr Tharit, the permanent secretary explained the incident when two Thai soldiers were wounded and had legs amputated after stepping on a landmine in Thai territory near Preah Vihear temple on Oct 3.

After inspection, the landmine was found to be a Russian-made PMN2 landmine. The Thai government claimed that the country never used this type of landmine before and it was recently planted.

During the briefing, Mr Veerasak further said Thailand and Cambodia are both signatories of the Ottawa Convention, and the landmine incident violated the agreement.

He reiterated Thailand's stance, saying the country will do its best to protect and maintain its sovereignty.

Mr Tharit said the foreign ambassadors expressed their understanding on the tense conflict between Thailand and Cambodia and they also thanked the ministry for promptly clarifying the situation.

The delegates from Singapore and Indonesia expressed special concern over the border row, and they would like Thailand and Cambodia to be considerate in solving the problem.

Cheers, Rick

Well the only thing wrong with that is this:

http://www.mech.uwa.edu.au/jpt/demining/info/pmn-2.html

One of the most common mines used in Cambodia.

Looks like a 70s design. It could have been planted and bought from anywhere. Vietnam? China even makes a copy.

But I'm sure Thailand doesn't buy Russian made landmines.

[Smithson]

I found this to be quite interesting.

(BangkokPost.com, TNA) - The Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs said foreign diplomats expressed their understanding about the border situation between Thailand and Cambodia. However, it was noted that Cambodian and Philippine envoys did not attend the briefing on Wednesday morning.

Department of Information director-general and Foreign Ministry spokesman Tharit Charungvat said Permanent Secretary for Foreign Affairs Veerasak Futrakul spent about 45 minutes to clarify the Thai-Cambodian border dispute to eight Asean ambassadors to Thailand.

According to Mr Tharit, the permanent secretary explained the incident when two Thai soldiers were wounded and had legs amputated after stepping on a landmine in Thai territory near Preah Vihear temple on Oct 3.

After inspection, the landmine was found to be a Russian-made PMN2 landmine. The Thai government claimed that the country never used this type of landmine before and it was recently planted.

During the briefing, Mr Veerasak further said Thailand and Cambodia are both signatories of the Ottawa Convention, and the landmine incident violated the agreement.

He reiterated Thailand's stance, saying the country will do its best to protect and maintain its sovereignty.

Mr Tharit said the foreign ambassadors expressed their understanding on the tense conflict between Thailand and Cambodia and they also thanked the ministry for promptly clarifying the situation.

The delegates from Singapore and Indonesia expressed special concern over the border row, and they would like Thailand and Cambodia to be considerate in solving the problem.

Cheers, Rick

Well the only thing wrong with that is this:

http://www.mech.uwa.edu.au/jpt/demining/info/pmn-2.html

One of the most common mines used in Cambodia.

Looks like a 70s design. It could have been planted and bought from anywhere. Vietnam? China even makes a copy.

But I'm sure Thailand doesn't buy Russian made landmines.

I remember in the mid-90's there was a huge warehouse full of arms found near the Khmer border. The Thai army claimed it was there's but had trouble explaining what they were doing with Chinese made weapons.

[stepenwolf1958]

Is it just coincidence that Cinemax are now showing the movie 'Intrusion Cambodia'?

Cheers, Rick

Absolutely...Anything medias do in such a mess is just coincidence and nothing else...

How about "washing brains"...i mean-trying, because i see the Thais are not focused about this at all...

[stepenwolf1958]

Actually the temple was going to be listed as a "site", not just the temple. Parts of the temple complex are on Thai territory, and they should have been covered by the listing too. It was against Unesco's own rules to cut and slice the place into "historically important" and "historically irrelevant and useless", according to modern border disputes.

Hi Plus,

Can you explain which parts are in Thai territory please? The maps I have seen show the entire 'temple' (or 'complex') in Cambodian territory, and I wonder if I am missing some other parts of the complex.

Thanks,

Mike

The ENTIRE TEMPLE complex 100% in Cambodia. None of it is in Thailand. The International Court of Justice has already ruled that. Thailand has already accepted that. Soon after, Thailand stop their ICJ membership and vowed not to seek ICJ to settle an more dispute.

WOW...So what Thais do there anyway???If so, why they put the nose there? They just ignore ICJ as institution relevant in this kind of situations or there is somethingmore, as background???Now i really don't understand what they do there.

However, there was NO ruling on the area surrounding the temple. I don't know why.

[bergen]

The Nation tries to bring a bit more clarity through insight into this sad dispute:

"The Cambodian government put a lot of effort into the The site has been closed since the listing and has not earned Cambodia one single tourist dollar.listing of the Hindu temple of Preah Vihear as a World Heritage site. The Khmer sanctuary was expected to welcome a fresh surge of visitors after Unesco accepted it for listing earlier this year. Other World Heritage sites have enjoyed an immediate boost in tourism, but the listing of Preah Vihear has brought Cambodia no more than a bitter row with Thailand, on whose border the revered ruin sits.

In 1962 the International Court of Justice ruled Preah Vihear belonged to Cambodia, but easy access can only be made from Thailand. Phnom Penh needs space to build its own route to the temple, but unfortunately the area it needs is also claimed by Thailand.

issue."

Link:

Again, you would expect a newspaper to be better informed and be aware of Cambodias road access, albeit that it runs through disputed territory. Cambodians wishing to visit the temple have never had to put one foot on Thai territory as they have always used the stairs leading up there. This kind of misinformation does little to enhance the Nations credibility.

I'm afraid stating "the Cambodians have always used the stairs" is misinfo as well

It is possible to drive up from the Cambodian planes on the eastern side of the cliff, and arrive just above the second (lowest) gate. (there are 5 gates leading to the top)

As I live "next door" I have been to the temple 25 - 30 times during the last 4 years, and several times from early this year I met tourists coming in 4wd trucks from Siem Reap, and they parked next to the stone "road" leading to the top.

Edited October 16, 2008 by bergen

[mdechgan]

However, there was NO ruling on the area surrounding the temple. I don't know why.

The entire process and court proceedings were about the temple. Not about the map in question or demarcation line. The border was never clarified to this day.

Thailand thinks the border was supposed to be at the watershed line to a 1904 map with the French. But a 1907 map puts the temple at the Cambodian side. This map was challenged but still circulated. But Thailand didn't bother because the only way to get to the temple was from the Thai side (back then) so Thai thought the temple would be Thailand's due to impracticality. Also the temple's stairs and its access roads and checkpoints are serviced by Thai people because Cambodians can't get easy access to the area by the Cambodia side unless they climb a cliff (back then).

The court ruled that the temple and all its belongings must be returned to Cambodia because Thailand never challenged the map for 50 years and the 1907 map was circulated and accepted. Cambodia also argued that Thailand lost the temple but gained other areas and villages from the French like some areas in Loei.

In the end the Cambodian prince said Thai could keep all belongings from the temple and Thai's could visit the temple without a visa as a gesture.

What is really baffles me is why the French don't have a word on this subject. It was their IndoChine ideology, their map, their surveyors that caused this skirmish in the first place.

Edited October 16, 2008 by mdechgan

[bergen]

However, there was NO ruling on the area surrounding the temple. I don't know why.

The entire process and court proceedings were about the temple. Not about the map in question or demarcation line. The border was never clarified to this day.

Thailand thinks the border was supposed to be at the watershed line to a 1904 map with the French. But a 1907 map puts the temple at the Cambodian side. This map was challenged but still circulated. But Thailand didn't bother because the only way to get to the temple was from the Thai side so Thai thought the temple would be Thailand's due to impracticality. Also the temple is serviced by Thai people because Cambodians can't get easy access to teh area by the Cambodia side unless they climb a cliff.

The court ruled that the temple and all its belongings must be returned to Cambodia because Thailand never challenged the map for 50 years and the 1907 map was circulated and accepted. Cambodia also argued that Thailand lost the temple but gained other areas and villages from the French like Loei.

In the end the Cambodian prince said Thai could keep all belongings from the temple and Thai's could visit the temple without a visa as a gesture.

What is really baffles me is why the French don't have a word on this subject. It was their IndoChine ideology, their map, their surveyors that caused this skirmish in the first place.

The temple is only serviced by Cambodians!!!

There has also been Cambodian soldiers, and Thai rangers in the area for many years!

[mdechgan]

The temple is only serviced by Cambodians!!!

There has also been Cambodian soldiers, and Thai rangers in the area for many years!

I didn't mean currently. I meant at the time like decades ago before the cliff access was made.

Edited October 16, 2008 by mdechgan

[mdechgan]

I don't see how the site can be agreed upon unless Thailand just gives up on the entire complex and surrounding areas. Instead of using the watershed line, the Thai border would have to receed back to the foot of the hills.

I don't see what Thailand has to gain with the disputed area. The temple is not an issue. It can never be Thailand's due to the ICJ ruling. Other than some revenue for access to the park there's not much else.

While Cambodia has lots to gain. It can develop better access to the temple and more tourist money.

Edited October 16, 2008 by mdechgan

[stumonster]

The Preah Vihear temple had a grim significance during Cambodia's years of civil conflict. In 1979, it was where Thailand forcibly repatriated thousands of Cambodian refugees who had fled across the mountain border to escape the Khmer Rouge, ordering them to march down the steep slopes back to their country.

As British journalist William Shawcross wrote of the scene in his book The Quality of Mercy: "The path down the mountains became steeper, the jungle thicker. Dozens, scores of people fell onto mines. Those with possessions had to abandon them to carry their children down. One group of refugees desperately pooled whatever valuables they had left, filled two buckets with them, and walked back up toward the Thai soldiers, carrying a white flag. The soldiers took the buckets and then shot the refugees."

The temple, which has been described as an "oasis of peace" was only regained by Cambodian government troops from the Khmer Rouge in 1998.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JJ16Ae02.html

[Bangyai]

The Nation tries to bring a bit more clarity through insight into this sad dispute:

"In 1962 the International Court of Justice ruled Preah Vihear belonged to Cambodia, but easy access can only be made from Thailand. Phnom Penh needs space to build its own route to the temple, but unfortunately the area it needs is also claimed by Thailand.

issue."

Link:

Again, you would expect a newspaper to be better informed and be aware of Cambodias road access, albeit that it runs through disputed territory. Cambodians wishing to visit the temple have never had to put one foot on Thai territory as they have always used the stairs leading up there. This kind of misinformation does little to enhance the Nations credibility.

I'm afraid stating "the Cambodians have always used the stairs" is misinfo as well

It is possible to drive up from the Cambodian planes on the eastern side of the cliff, and arrive just above the second (lowest) gate. (there are 5 gates leading to the top)

As I live "next door" I have been to the temple 25 - 30 times during the last 4 years, and several times from early this year I met tourists coming in 4wd trucks from Siem Reap, and they parked next to the stone "road" leading to the top.

Quite so, they don't need to use the stairs now since they built the access road. You can see it clearly on the google earth satalite pictures

[Guest Reimar]

FROM TOC

Cambodia Admits to Firing First, Joint Patrol along Border

UPDATE : 16 October 2008

Cambodian and Thai military officials have met in a bid to prevent further clashes following the deadly border shoot-out yesterday that prompted many local residents to evacuate. Cambodia has admitted to shooting first but promised an incident like this will never happen again. Both sides have agreed that they will jointly patrol the disputed areas around Preah Vihear Temple.

A meeting between Thai and Cambodian officials in Si Sa Ket led to the admittance of Cambodia that it fired at Thai soldiers first. The Thai Supreme Commander revealed the Cambodian premier received mistaken information that Thai troops had violated its sovereignty.

The two sides have agreed to jointly patrol the disputed areas around Preah Vihear Temple and Cambodia pledged that such an incident will never happen again.

The Armed Forces leaders assured continued negotiations will be carried out with Cambodia but it has not been confirmed when Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat will meet with his Cambodian counterpart.

Still, today a caravan of trucks loaded with weapons and armed men has headed to Preah Vihear National Park in Kantaralak District of Si Sa Ket, while the number of troops along the Thai-Cambodian border has increased as part of a reinforcement plan ordered by the military.

Meanwhile, the atmosphere at the Chong-Sa-Ngam border was quiet today as locals from both countries stayed indoors, fearing more fighting will break out. Several armoured vehicles and a team of Thai troops are stationed at the border.

Ten trucks loaded with weapons and Cambodian troops were seen heading to Preah Vihear Temple.

Half the shopkeepers at the Baan Had Lek Border in Trad Province decided to close their shops, as did Cambodian shopkeepers who returned to their country for fear that the border would be closed.

[AlKing]

Without ill intent, I wonder if the headline in Cambodian newspapers tomorrow will read "Thailand has admitted to shooting first but promised an incident like this will never happen again."

I have learned over the past few month not to trust TOC completely. Can you please pass me the salt.

[geovalin]

The French newspaper in Phnom Penh, Cambodge Soir, announced that 5 Thais soldiers had been killed yesterday. For the farangs gifted and clever enough to read French, here is the link:

http://www.cambodgesoir.info/content.php?itemid=34940&p=

I cannot be sure it's true.

If double post, please delete.

Edited October 16, 2008 by geovalin

[jfchandler]

I don't read French, but I was just looking through the web sites of a bunch of English language news outlets in Cambodia... and everything they're showing tonight is from Wednesday... and nothing there mirroring the TOC report posted above saying Cambodia admitted shooting first...

Here's a recap of one was listed on one site's headlines...gives you a flavor of things...

The Thai-Cambodian Firing Happens Three Different Places

Thursday, October 16, 2008

Preah Vihear Province: After Thai black uniform troops had opened fire on RCAF that caused two Khmer troops died, the foreign affairs minister and deputy prime minister Hor Namhong said in a press conference on Wednesday evening that the firing had broken out three different places. First, it happened at Preah Vihear Pagoda, where the two Khmer troops died, about 700 meters from the border. Second, the fighting occurred at Veal Intry, which Thai troops invaded on 13 October, and finally, at Phnom Trop about 1600 meters from the border.

Relates news

* Two Cambodian Troops Die, Injured at Veal Intry Firing - Wednesday, October 15, 2008

* PM: Veal Intry Will Become Death Area If Thai Troops Don’t Move - Tuesday, October 14, 2008

* Cambodian Troops Station at Uth Temple near the Border - Monday, October 13, 2008

* Thai Troops Ask Khmer Citizens about Uth Temple - Saturday, October 11, 2008

* Thai Armed Troops Menace Khmer Villagers - Thursday, October 09, 2008

* Cambodia Deploys More Troops along the Border - Thursday, October 09, 2008

* Thai Troops Distribute M 16 Bullets to their Comrades at Pagoda - Tuesday, October 07, 2008

* Thai Troops at Preah Vihea Pagoda Afraid after the Firing - Sunday, October 05, 2008

* Thai Troop Chief: the Firing is the incident - Sunday, October 05, 2008

* Both Side Armed Troops on the Alert after the Fire - Sunday, October 05, 2008

[jfchandler]

Thailand and Cambodia 'agree to joint border patrols'

Thailand and Cambodia have agreed to introduce joint patrols in disputed areas along their border after deadly clashes between the two sides, a Thai army official said.

Last Updated: 11:29AM BST 16 Oct 2008

Thailand and Cambodia 'agree to joint border patrols'

"We will introduce the joint patrol to avoid this kind of incident happening again," said Lieutenant General Wiboonsak Neeparn, Thailand's northeastern army commander, after meeting with a Cambodian counterpart.

Two Cambodian soldiers were killed and seven Thai troops injured on Wednesday when a three-month long dispute over land near the ancient Preah Vihear temple boiled over into a shootout.

Gen Wiboonsak said the atmosphere at the meeting had been good, but said that little headway was made on the deeper issues of ending the stand-off and withdrawing troops from a number of disputed border areas.

"The meeting has not made much progress, but the two sides agreed to stay where they are," he told reporters, adding that Thailand had no plans to remove any of the heavy weaponry along the border.

Gen Wiboonsak said talks between senior military officials would resume on Oct 21 in Cambodia's Siem Reap, but cautioned that more fighting was possible.

"Thailand keeps our promise, but if Cambodia does not it may happen again," he said after the five-hour meeting.

Major General Srey Deok, commander of Cambodian troops in the disputed border area, said the Thai and Cambodian generals had agreed that soldiers would not fire their weapons, but troops would remain in the area.

Source: The Telegraph, UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...er-patrols.html

[jfchandler]

Looks like the above was originally from AFP.... Note the highlighted passage in bold....

Here's the rest of a longer version of the above article from ChannelNewsAsia.com

Governments from both countries have said they are seeking to calm the situation and mend relations, and the United States, the United Nations and the European Union have all called for restraint.

Indonesia's President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, meanwhile, said his country was ready to mediate between Thailand and Cambodia.

But officials from both sides continue to insist they did not ignite Wednesday's fire-fight, which left two Cambodian soldiers dead and two injured, and seven Thai soldiers wounded.

A third Cambodian soldier who had already been ill died early Thursday of smoke inhalation from repeatedly firing his rocket-launcher, said Cambodian Major Meas Yeoun.

The Cambodian army said it had released 13 Thai soldiers Thursday after they surrendered in a disputed area during fighting, but Thai officials denied any of their troops had been captured.

The situation on the border appeared calmer Thursday as soldiers smiled and exchanged cordial words, an AFP correspondent there said, while officials from both sides toned down their rhetoric.

Lieutenant General Surapol Puanaiyaka, of Thailand's top security body the National Security Council, said there was little danger of outright war.

"I am confident that the situation will not blow out of hand or escalate into full-scale warfare," he said.

Civilians, however, have fled the area and Thai expatriates and tourists are leaving Cambodia.

A Thai official said that 432 Thais who were in Cambodia when the border fighting broke out returned home after the Bangkok government appealed for anyone not on urgent business to leave.

Cambodian riot police were deployed Wednesday in front of the Thai embassy in Phnom Penh, which was set on fire by anti-Thai rioters in 2003.

Cambodian interior ministry spokesman Khieu Sopheak said undercover police were monitoring Thai businesses to ensure their safety.

"We're protecting all Thai businessmen and citizens in Cambodia in case our people get furious and do something wrong that would not benefit either side," Khieu Sopheak told AFP.

The current stand-off first flared in July after Preah Vihear was awarded World Heritage status by the UN cultural body UNESCO, angering some Thai nationalists who claim ownership of the site.

The situation quickly escalated into a military confrontation, with up to 1,000 Cambodian and Thai troops facing off for six weeks, although both sides in August agreed to reduce troop numbers in the main disputed area.

Tensions flared again this week after talks on Monday aimed at cooling the standoff failed.

The Cambodian-Thai border has never been fully demarcated, in part because it is littered with landmines left over from decades of war in Cambodia.

Full Article HERE

- AFP /ls

[dumball]

How intolerable that a pipsqueak country like Cambodia should contemplate the military might of Thailand.Do they not understand what would be in store for them?They should bear in mind what happened last time when an inferior former vassal state i.e Laos took on the finest of Thailand's military......Oh well, perhaps that's not a very good example.

i think you may have answered my question..................

Surely the miltary force and equipment in Cambodia doesnt

even come close to that in Thailand.? Do they have an airforce and

have they bought any decent equipment in Cambodia even for their army ?

NO , but word is out to the local ears , China and Vietnam have huge investment in Cambodia , and Hun SEn is not the brightest spark in the fire , but he is not stupid when it comes to armed confrontation . Sgtpeppers , what makes you think Thais have a strajegic advantage ? they are on the low land and it is all jungle where they sit , large guns and tanks are useless in jungle warfare .

[Guest Reimar]

Regarding copyright issues, please submit a working link with post containing copied articles. Also didn't copy the article in full because Thaivisa didn't have the permit for that except for some few sources.

Thanks for your understanding.

[dumball]

How is this solution(s)- Why not destroy the whole temple instead of lives or just devide it into two halves, one for Thailand, one for Combodia?! Funny how it shows when people think material things are worth more than life.

The dispute is not over the temple , but a mere piece of scrubland .

[Andrew Hicks]

The days of constantly moving borders has come to an end. The area in dispute falls in Cambodian territory making a far stretch to be considered Thai.

How do you know that the area in dispute falls in Cambodian territory. From news reports it appears it's still part of the 4.6 square kilometers disputed zone. Cambodian troops are there, Thai troops are there, it doesn't belong to anyone at the moment.

The International Court of Justice in 1962 awarded the temple to Cambodia interpreting a treaty and border map of 1904 agreed upon between French Indo-China and Siam at that time.

What I don't understand is why the 4.6 sq km is now disputed or how the border is not clearly defined by the 1904 map. Surveys were accurately done at that time.

No, no surveys, the Court didn't rule on the status of the map or border, only on the temple itself. Thais claimed it and the rest of the territory, they lost the temple only, in their view.

I know the temple well and am unclear where exactly this piece of land is. Has anyone seen a definitive map of it?

I posted a map on the second page of this thread, I belive.

Ultimately a dispute over a tiny scarp of scrub land that is economically useless is hardly worth the damage..

Oh no, no no no no. These border dispute stretches for hundreds of kilometers, you settle one piece, it sets the precedent. And there's the ultimate prize - potentially oil and gas reach areas at sea. That's a really big one.

NEW POST

Thanks for the map... I missed it earlier.

Where did it come from?

You can read the judgment of the International Court of Justice on their website. Unfortunately I could not find any map among the working papers and still wonder how this piece of land is still disputed. Nobody has said why.

The dispute referred to the Court in 1962 was a request to define the border in the vicinity of the temple and the maps well drawn by French colonial surveyors were accepted as definitive and accepted by treaty, thus placing the temple in Cambodia.

The 4.6 sq km of land to my knowlege has no value or use, not even as access but as you say there may be wider implications. I make the point about resource claims in the territorial sea in my forthcoming article in Dateline, the journal of the FCCT. (Foreign Correspondants' Club of Thailand).

All deeply sad and wholly unnecessary.

Andrew

[jfchandler]

Here's an interesting take...I haven't seen argued before....

See the bolded section... If they were/are not Thai... who are they?????

Thai troops released, says Cambodia

October 16 2008 at 12:55PM

Preah Vihear, Cambodia - A Cambodian commander said on Thursday his country had released 13 Thai soldiers who surrendered during a deadly border shoot-out, although Thailand denies they were ever in custody.

Major General Srey Deok, commander of Cambodian troop operations in the disputed border area, said they had agreed to release the Thai soldiers after talks on Thursday with senior Thai military officials.

"We handed their weapons back to them already," Srey Deok said, adding that the troops had been released and allowed to walk around the disputed area.

Thailand, however, has maintained that none of their troops were captured by Cambodia.

"They are not Thai," said Lieutenant General Wiboonsak Neeparn, Thailand's north-eastern army commander, after the meeting with Cambodian officials.

(more)

The source web site credits this article to AFP...

Full article appears at:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&am...23725604C741053

[Sheryl]

How is this solution(s)- Why not destroy the whole temple instead of lives or just devide it into two halves, one for Thailand, one for Combodia?! Funny how it shows when people think material things are worth more than life.

The dispute is not over the temple , but a mere piece of scrubland .

Actually it is about neither.

Hun Sen and Taksin are long-time business buddies and have a "sweetheart" deal for the development of the temple site for their mutual (personal) enrichment. Among many other deals.

The Taksin-affiliated government is beset by internal troubles, as we all know. They asked their friend Hun Sen to help them stage a diversion. He's willing to because he and his cronies have a financial stake in how the Thai political crisis ends.

Hiowever, what they've staged can easily spin out of control. Nationalist sentiments on both sides of the border run high.