Only Thaksin Could Unlock Country's Problems : Anand

[younghusband]

I don't believe that any "deal" would work at all if it is not acceptable to people at the street level. I said that long time ago - if there were forces trying to manipulate PAD, it's out of their hands now. The only authority that would be able to influence PAD is not going to be involved in any deal making with someone like Thaksin, and that's about all that can be said on this matter.

But if it's in the last analysis down to mobs at street level (ie the paymasters -using the latter word very loosely- on both sides lose control) Thailand's demographics predetermine the winners -and the outcome won't be pretty.This isn't some lefty fantasy of peasants descending on Bangkok with pitchforks -it won't happen like that.

The sheer stupidity of the elite infuriates me, because it's throwing away the chance of a peaceful transition and I must own up to an instinctive respect for established structures which have served the country well over time.There has been colossal idiocy -beginning with the coup- which is the despair of people like me, basically reform minded conservatives.

[jayjayjayjay]

I don't believe that any "deal" would work at all if it is not acceptable to people at the street level. I said that long time ago - if there were forces trying to manipulate PAD, it's out of their hands now. The only authority that would be able to influence PAD is not going to be involved in any deal making with someone like Thaksin, and that's about all that can be said on this matter.

But if it's in the last analysis down to mobs at street level (ie the paymasters -using the latter word very loosely- on both sides lose control) Thailand's demographics predetermine the winners -and the outcome won't be pretty.This isn't some lefty fantasy of peasants descending on Bangkok with pitchforks -it won't happen like that.

The sheer stupidity of the elite infuriates me, because it's throwing away the chance of a peaceful transition and I must own up to an instinctive respect for established structures which have served the country well over time.There has been colossal idiocy -beginning with the coup- which is the despair of people like me, basically reform minded conservatives.

on the same page as u younghusband

[animatic]

With Thaksin on the move there is no deal possible.

He has more than sufficently alignated his opposition enought to

NEVER allow him near the levers of power again.

It is to the oppositions credit that a 'contract' doesn't seem to have been put out on him.

Then again he may have salted away assorted incriminating evendence with lawyers,

that would come to light in the event of his extracuricular demise.... Insurance shall we say.

His continued attempts, to control Thailand's governing bodies using money and proxies,

is reason enough for them to say; No! No chance, it ends here...

Never more, never more, said the raven.

[hammered]

I don't believe that any "deal" would work at all if it is not acceptable to people at the street level. I said that long time ago - if there were forces trying to manipulate PAD, it's out of their hands now. The only authority that would be able to influence PAD is not going to be involved in any deal making with someone like Thaksin, and that's about all that can be said on this matter.

What is left out of this discussion is, the military appointed ASC have locked up B70 billion plus of Thaksin's money! Now before this happened, I could see Thaskin leaving the politcial stage. Locking up what "he" considers was earnt through creation, operation and sale of AIS, is at the route cause of why he will not leave. I have said it before, if you mess with a mans wife he gets angry, if you mess with his money he gets revenge!

All of you, rich and poor, what would you do if all you had worked for in your life was taken under government control before 5pm today. Now there's going to be some idiots say you've got nothing and so it doesn't matter(forget it, it's already said). Seriously, what would you do?

Thaksin ulitimately is not going anywhere until his families fortune is returned.

True but the other side to the conundrum is with his vast fortune back will he just play even more politics. That uis why this is such an intractable situation. He doesnt go with out his money. Those who have his money dont want to give it back if it will just further fuel his polical machine. No trust.

[hammered]

I don't believe that any "deal" would work at all if it is not acceptable to people at the street level. I said that long time ago - if there were forces trying to manipulate PAD, it's out of their hands now. The only authority that would be able to influence PAD is not going to be involved in any deal making with someone like Thaksin, and that's about all that can be said on this matter.

But if it's in the last analysis down to mobs at street level (ie the paymasters -using the latter word very loosely- on both sides lose control) Thailand's demographics predetermine the winners -and the outcome won't be pretty.This isn't some lefty fantasy of peasants descending on Bangkok with pitchforks -it won't happen like that.

The sheer stupidity of the elite infuriates me, because it's throwing away the chance of a peaceful transition and I must own up to an instinctive respect for established structures which have served the country well over time.There has been colossal idiocy -beginning with the coup- which is the despair of people like me, basically reform minded conservatives.

There will probably be no real reform until this is over and people on the whole realise they were mugged by both sides. that will take time. Then and only maybe will there be the seed of any political system that is to favour the people: rural, urban, poor, middle class whatever

Or failing that we get a Chavez style character and I dont mean in a faux Thaksin style but a firebrand wealth redistributor who really can play the game, and has absolutely no intention of doing a deal with anyone. What has swept through South America could easily happen here as the fundamentals of oppression/wealth distribution are very similar. However with accomodation a more Brazil or Peru style leftist change could occur. This may seem outlandish now but there are big changes coming down the track with one major event and what we see now although mostly muddled up in some hideous inta-elite power struggle has unleashed other forces at probably an earlier time than expected. One thing is for sure everyone, whether they be farmers, factory workers, middle class or business owners in Thailand is far more politcised now than they were say ten years ago.

[animatic]

I don't believe that any "deal" would work at all if it is not acceptable to people at the street level. I said that long time ago - if there were forces trying to manipulate PAD, it's out of their hands now. The only authority that would be able to influence PAD is not going to be involved in any deal making with someone like Thaksin, and that's about all that can be said on this matter.

What is left out of this discussion is, the military appointed ASC have locked up B70 billion plus of Thaksin's money! Now before this happened, I could see Thaskin leaving the politcial stage. Locking up what "he" considers was earnt through creation, operation and sale of AIS, is at the route cause of why he will not leave. I have said it before, if you mess with a mans wife he gets angry, if you mess with his money he gets revenge!

All of you, rich and poor, what would you do if all you had worked for in your life was taken under government control before 5pm today. Now there's going to be some idiots say you've got nothing and so it doesn't matter(forget it, it's already said). Seriously, what would you do?

Thaksin ulitimately is not going anywhere until his families fortune is returned.

Well the reasons it was impounded was because he tried an end run on taxes,

bigger than most districts whole yearly budgets...

It is impounded pending his court cases. He has walked on the court cases,

so he isn't getting a percentage of his pile back till the underlying issues are adjudicated.

It is FAR from his whole pile, he has salted HUGE sums out of the country,

counter to Thai law i might add, enough to buy and sell football teams...

So it's not like his life's work has 100% been stolen from him.

He dodged taxes, and this is assets lockdown is SOP for most countries

to lock down the pile until the courts decide what is LEGITIMATELY his.

And it surely is NOT a full 70 billion baht...

He thinks he has done no wrong and it's all his...

They think he has done at LEAST 5 things wrong, and want the courts to decide

what percentage, less fines and taxes, he gets back.

Wifey is convicted of one thing so far.

He of course wants it ALL.... unbridled HUBRIS!!!

If he had not laughed in the face of the whole country with the Temasek sale / tax dodge,

this would not be happening. But his hubris lead him to think he could do ANYTHING he wanted.

Not so in a civilized society. He is now paying that price, and taking many others along for the ride.

Edited October 16, 2008 by animatic

[hammered]

We can sit and argue the merits of both sides and even have some interesting exchanges of ideas, but as we do I think that part one is coming to an end. There will be a few sequels but right now with the country on the edge of war and a huge recession about to bite an accomodation or truce will be worked out or forced, most likely the latter and from behind the scenes. Part one has been going on for three years already

[younghusband]

I don't believe that any "deal" would work at all if it is not acceptable to people at the street level. I said that long time ago - if there were forces trying to manipulate PAD, it's out of their hands now. The only authority that would be able to influence PAD is not going to be involved in any deal making with someone like Thaksin, and that's about all that can be said on this matter.

But if it's in the last analysis down to mobs at street level (ie the paymasters -using the latter word very loosely- on both sides lose control) Thailand's demographics predetermine the winners -and the outcome won't be pretty.This isn't some lefty fantasy of peasants descending on Bangkok with pitchforks -it won't happen like that.

The sheer stupidity of the elite infuriates me, because it's throwing away the chance of a peaceful transition and I must own up to an instinctive respect for established structures which have served the country well over time.There has been colossal idiocy -beginning with the coup- which is the despair of people like me, basically reform minded conservatives.

There will probably be no real reform until this is over and people on the whole realise they were mugged by both sides. that will take time. Then and only maybe will there be the seed of any political system that is to favour the people: rural, urban, poor, middle class whatever

Or failing that we get a Chavez style character and I dont mean in a faux Thaksin style but a firebrand wealth redistributor who really can play the game, and has absolutely no intention of doing a deal with anyone. What has swept through South America could easily happen here as the fundamentals of oppression/wealth distribution are very similar. However with accomodation a more Brazil or Peru style leftist change could occur. This may seem outlandish now but there are big changes coming down the track with one major event and what we see now although mostly muddled up in some hideous inta-elite power struggle has unleashed other forces at probably an earlier time than expected. One thing is for sure everyone, whether they be farmers, factory workers, middle class or business owners in Thailand is far more politcised now than they were say ten years ago.

Very perceptive post.Already it's very clear that the unsayable and unthinkable is being said and thought by large numbers of Thais.Meanwhile the economy is deteriorating fast as it becomes clear Asia is not insulated from the global downturn.Hammered you have rightly often mentioned this economic aspect and it becomes critical as the political environment deteriorates, making it more volatile and dangerous.

However my instinct is that the elite may finally see sense and a compromise will be agreed, probably Thai style behind scenes.The PAD leadership will then be summarily despatched to the oblivion (metaphorically), and the decent PAD rank and file will have to rally behind a political party, probably the Dems.

[hammered]

I don't believe that any "deal" would work at all if it is not acceptable to people at the street level. I said that long time ago - if there were forces trying to manipulate PAD, it's out of their hands now. The only authority that would be able to influence PAD is not going to be involved in any deal making with someone like Thaksin, and that's about all that can be said on this matter.

But if it's in the last analysis down to mobs at street level (ie the paymasters -using the latter word very loosely- on both sides lose control) Thailand's demographics predetermine the winners -and the outcome won't be pretty.This isn't some lefty fantasy of peasants descending on Bangkok with pitchforks -it won't happen like that.

The sheer stupidity of the elite infuriates me, because it's throwing away the chance of a peaceful transition and I must own up to an instinctive respect for established structures which have served the country well over time.There has been colossal idiocy -beginning with the coup- which is the despair of people like me, basically reform minded conservatives.

There will probably be no real reform until this is over and people on the whole realise they were mugged by both sides. that will take time. Then and only maybe will there be the seed of any political system that is to favour the people: rural, urban, poor, middle class whatever

Or failing that we get a Chavez style character and I dont mean in a faux Thaksin style but a firebrand wealth redistributor who really can play the game, and has absolutely no intention of doing a deal with anyone. What has swept through South America could easily happen here as the fundamentals of oppression/wealth distribution are very similar. However with accomodation a more Brazil or Peru style leftist change could occur. This may seem outlandish now but there are big changes coming down the track with one major event and what we see now although mostly muddled up in some hideous inta-elite power struggle has unleashed other forces at probably an earlier time than expected. One thing is for sure everyone, whether they be farmers, factory workers, middle class or business owners in Thailand is far more politcised now than they were say ten years ago.

Very perceptive post.Already it's very clear that the unsayable and unthinkable is being said and thought by large numbers of Thais.Meanwhile the economy is deteriorating fast as it becomes clear Asia is not insulated from the global downturn.Hammered you have rightly often mentioned this economic aspect and it becomes critical as the political environment deteriorates, making it more volatile and dangerous.

However my instinct is that the elite may finally see sense and a compromise will be agreed, probably Thai style behind scenes.The PAD leadership will then be summarily despatched to the oblivion (metaphorically), and the decent PAD rank and file will have to rally behind a political party, probably the Dems.

My feeling if I have to go out on a limb is that a forced conclusion or truce is not far off. The PAD will be sent away probably without jail time and the PPP (or part of) will coerced or bribed into either stepping down or forming a national government (I hear this a lot) or something along these lines. Thailand is going to be hit massively by a loss of exports in the upcoming months. The elite on both sides are not going to see their business investments unravel.

[h90]

YH, even Chang Noi has clearly stated that this fight about Thaksin, first and foremost. Have you seen his latest article?

It was a balanced article, like you I agreee with most of it. Here are the relevant bits:

Thaksin's meddling gave the PAD leaders an opportunity to return to their successful formula: Thaksin out! Samak out! Somchai out! Whatever out! Just shake your hand-clapper. It would be hard to find a device that symbolises simple conformity so aptly.

In the PAD's claims, Thaksin is so fearsome that their own actions are justified. The ordinary people attending the rallies wear caps and shirts claiming they are "saving the country" and tell interviewers they are there because they want to protect the King. The siege of Parliament was an attempt to overthrow the government by semi-constitutional means. This is not peaceful protest but violence justified in the name of a cause. As Sondhi explained, the PAD has recruited paid militia, mostly among former soldiers and policemen. Some notorious veterans of underground warfare have helped with training. Weapons seized from the PAD have ranged from guns to golf clubs. In the videos of 7 October, the PAD militia were armed with sticks, pipes, poles, handguns, slingshots and a variety of missiles including home-made grenades and raw sewage.

Look at the cast of characters skulking in the shadows of the past week's events: Chavalit, Chamlong, Phanlop, Prasong. The dirty violence, traditionally attributed to a "third hand" is an absolutely guaranteed element of such events with such people around. The sickening deaths and injuries were not unfortunate but inevitable.

Perhaps the saddest sight in all this is the Democrat Party. So many of their core constituents support the PAD that any dissent by the Democrats would be electoral suicide, but now they are hitched to the baggage train of a movement that claims the right to use violence and overrule law in order to overthrow an elected government.

I didn't saw any videos showing these items, either I missed some evidence or the article is a paid propaganda with blank lies.

If you know such videos please let us know.

[younghusband]

I didn't saw any videos showing these items, either I missed some evidence or the article is a paid propaganda with blank lies.

If you know such videos please let us know.

From the wackier foreign members of the PAD community even Chang Noi (one of the longest established and respected commentators) gets insulting accusations thrown at him.

I love the insane positioning of alternatives, ie EITHER I missed the evidence OR he is a paid propagandist dishing out lies.

[Samuian]

Nattawut says Thaksin not to blame

Government Spokesman [and criminal litigant as a rioting gang leader] Nattawut Saikua yesterday defended deposed PM Thaksin Shinawatra, who is being blamed as the root cause of the continuing political confrontation. Thaksin, who fled the country claiming he would not get a fair trial on corruption charges here, is widely thought to be the de facto leader of the Somchai government. Former PM Anand Panyarachun said on Tuesday that Thaksin is the only person who can end the political stalemate. Nattawut dismissed the comment as the feelings of one senior citizen. There was no evidence Thaksin had been involved in the intensifying political conflict between the government and the PAD, he said. Thaksin, now in exile with his family in London, lives far away from Thailand and does not have the power to end the trouble, he said. *apparently Nuttawut is unaware of the existence of telephones and the Internet and PPP MP's going to London* He added that Mr Anand should look at the unfolding situation very carefully to find the real culprit.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/161008_News/16Oct2008_news05.php

Interesting that a Government Spokesman feels impelled, to speak up to defend a man who is on-the-run from several Thai court cases, accompanied by his convicted-and-sentanced wife, and still carrying (as far as we know) a Thai diplomatic-passport, but who has sought political-asylum in the UK.

Perhaps all ex-PM senior-citizens are not equal ?

And just who could he possibly mean, when he talks about "the real culprit", when he speaks as an official Government-Spokesman ?

Well, it says it all, doesn't it?

They believe in earnest that everything is alright and they have all the wisdom to keep this charade running, nobody else will realize!

Most of them are so much up their own *** !

if it's Nutta-wut on the picture above - o' dear... I wouldn't like to meet him in some dark side alley..in the middle of the night!

Well, well, well, it seems more and more that it isn't so much the Nation which is divided, or certain groups of people like the PAD and the DAAD, no it's a deep rift between several factions in the government!

The deepest rift seems to be between people who are simple installed puppets for reasons of control and power and thus they are acting, some of them have turned rouges and runaway's... for their own case, who would rent a couple of rouges to guard his house and then leave 'em alone with it?

A great part of this government is not only slowing down any positive development, much is, for own interests sake sabotaged or simply not even looked into (Praeh Vihar Conflict) much of these people are a disgrace for this country and its citizen!

Yes, Anand got it right, doesn't take much, does it?

But it doesn't take much either to conclude that the person concerned will give a dam_n!

I still believe that the "unseen 3rd hand", is part of moving his chessmen in the border conflict too!

Destabilizing the country, where ever, however will help at least his request for political asylum and before all, satisfy and feed his alter ego

Edited October 16, 2008 by Samuian

[steveromagnino]

the problem in part of cutting a deal is the people cutting the deal, if there is such a thing as a BKK elite, don't trust that Thaksin would ever hold his side of the bargain, knowing that he already breached his obligations with regards to stepping down in early 2006 when he announced he would both to the public and inside the palace....and then not doing so.

It was widely commented even within the TRT advisor circle as early as about late 2004 that 'the PM doesn't listen to us/me regarding [insert area of expertise] anymore" anyone who actually has spent time with the former PM will know that he is very smart, very quick thinking and extremely self confident and sure of himself.

As for the idea that he worked hard and so forth and so on...no one should deny that.....but at the end of the day lots of people work really hard for what they have/had - Al Capone, Skilling and Lay - the law is the law. The reason some say for all the political meddling and in fact for his entry into politics even as far back as 2001 has been to create and protect his AIS business which would otherwise be subject to the forces of deregulation that could have a netscape type level effect on his business. His ability to 3X his wealth in a 5 year period would strongly suggest that the decision, financially, was a very wise one for the Shinwatra family. The manipuation of the telco deregulation process is not disputed even among the largest TRT fans who know something of telecoms in Thailand.

But on the other hand, some will say that despite the obvious wealth grabbing for this, AOT, new airport, etc - he got stuff done like healthcare, FTAs and debt forgiveness schemes - hence becoming the hero to a generation.

So yes, this entire battle on one level (his) is about keeping what he feels is his own wealth, and it is a frigging big sum of cash.

But on another level, this is about what will happen one day and who will hold what power. And he is part of this battle also.

At a third level, it is about the emergence of political ideologies and what various people consider to be good or bad versions of democracy. Rest assured, guys like Jakapop do genuinely probably believe what they say.

And all this set against economic collapse. And in a battle with no clear winner, an intervention as in 1992 will not work as that sort of option can only occur when it is clear that there will be no further issues thereafter.

Ironically, had he not fluked running the country during a period of very low oil prices, world wide boom and following a massive build up in pent demand, no one would even be considering to talk about the guy like some sort of economic miracle worker.

Edited October 16, 2008 by steveromagnino

[Ricardo]

Nattawut says Thaksin not to blame

Government Spokesman [and criminal litigant as a rioting gang leader] Nattawut Saikua yesterday defended deposed PM Thaksin Shinawatra, who is being blamed as the root cause of the continuing political confrontation. Thaksin, who fled the country claiming he would not get a fair trial on corruption charges here, is widely thought to be the de facto leader of the Somchai government. Former PM Anand Panyarachun said on Tuesday that Thaksin is the only person who can end the political stalemate. Nattawut dismissed the comment as the feelings of one senior citizen. There was no evidence Thaksin had been involved in the intensifying political conflict between the government and the PAD, he said. Thaksin, now in exile with his family in London, lives far away from Thailand and does not have the power to end the trouble, he said. *apparently Nuttawut is unaware of the existence of telephones and the Internet and PPP MP's going to London* He added that Mr Anand should look at the unfolding situation very carefully to find the real culprit.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/161008_News/16Oct2008_news05.php

Interesting that a Government Spokesman feels impelled, to speak up to defend a man who is on-the-run from several Thai court cases, accompanied by his convicted-and-sentanced wife, and still carrying (as far as we know) a Thai diplomatic-passport, but who has sought political-asylum in the UK.

Perhaps all ex-PM senior-citizens are not equal ?

And just who could he possibly mean, when he talks about "the real culprit", when he speaks as an official Government-Spokesman ?

Well, it says it all, doesn't it?

They believe in earnest that everything is alright and they have all the wisdom to keep this charade running, nobody else will realize!

Most of them are so much up their own *** !

if it's Nutta-wut on the picture above - o' dear... I wouldn't like to meet him in some dark side alley..in the middle of the night!

Well, well, well, it seems more and more that it isn't so much the Nation which is divided, or certain groups of people like the PAD and the DAAD, no it's a deep rift between several factions in the government!

The deepest rift seems to be between people who are simple installed puppets for reasons of control and power and thus they are acting, some of them have turned rouges and runaway's... for their own case, who would rent a couple of rouges to guard his house and then leave 'em alone with it?

A great part of this government is not only slowing down any positive development, much is, for own interests sake sabotaged or simply not even looked into (Praeh Vihar Conflict) much of these people are a disgrace for this country and its citizen!

Yes, Anand got it right, doesn't take much, does it?

But it doesn't take much either to conclude that the person concerned will give a dam_n!

I still believe that the "unseen 3rd hand", is part of moving his chessmen in the border conflict too!

Destabilizing the country, where ever, however will help at least his request for political asylum and before all, satisfy and feed his alter ego

Unfortunately, I don't read Nuttawut's comments as meaning Thaksin, when he referred to "the real culprit".

[Old Man River]

However my instinct is that the elite may finally see sense and a compromise will be agreed, probably Thai style behind scenes.The PAD leadership will then be summarily despatched to the oblivion (metaphorically), and the decent PAD rank and file will have to rally behind a political party, probably the Dems.

While I agree a back door deal is probable, it needs to include a material, fundamental change in the political system or the appointed caretaker government won't survive the next election. Bangkok power groups may agree about what they want, but as long as the northeast voting block remains as is, a return to a Thaksin/nominee styled government is likely. If the coup did one thing, it was to show that reverting to the existing political system is not the answer.

[h90]

I didn't saw any videos showing these items, either I missed some evidence or the article is a paid propaganda with blank lies.

If you know such videos please let us know.

From the wackier foreign members of the PAD community even Chang Noi (one of the longest established and respected commentators) gets insulting accusations thrown at him.

I love the insane positioning of alternatives, ie EITHER I missed the evidence OR he is a paid propagandist dishing out lies.

So you mean, that you also do not know any evidence?

You may respect Chang Noi, I actually do not.

[Crushdepth]

I think the current mess will be sorted out by the courts, not by political parties. The PPP and most likely the present Prime Minister are going down the tubes. It will be interesting to see if the next incarnation of PPP will learn from its mistakes and fight a clean(er) election next time, or not.

I doubt that they will. PPP doesn't behave like an 'ordinary' party in a functional democracy where people that become political liabilities are shown the door. It behaves like a football club that is majority owned by a wealthy businessman!

I think Thaksin is deliberately trying destabilise and inflame the situation. It won't stop until he either has his fortune confiscated or gets thrown in the clink, or his own party finally gets fed up and cut him off. Unfortunately none of those are likely to happen while the cash keeps flowing.

Expect more of the same and hope the court system holds the line!

[Plus]

However my instinct is that the elite may finally see sense and a compromise will be agreed, probably Thai style behind scenes.The PAD leadership will then be summarily despatched to the oblivion (metaphorically), and the decent PAD rank and file will have to rally behind a political party, probably the Dems.

While I agree a back door deal is probable, it needs to include a material, fundamental change in the political system or the appointed caretaker government won't survive the next election. Bangkok power groups may agree about what they want, but as long as the northeast voting block remains as is, a return to a Thaksin/nominee styled government is likely. If the coup did one thing, it was to show that reverting to the existing political system is not the answer.

The trick is to keep the current MPs employed but without the power. "New politics" doesn't give them any space to live, but mandated decentralisation with local governor elections, and proportional vote for the House itself would keep them at bay.

[jayjayjayjay]

I don't believe that any "deal" would work at all if it is not acceptable to people at the street level. I said that long time ago - if there were forces trying to manipulate PAD, it's out of their hands now. The only authority that would be able to influence PAD is not going to be involved in any deal making with someone like Thaksin, and that's about all that can be said on this matter.

What is left out of this discussion is, the military appointed ASC have locked up B70 billion plus of Thaksin's money! Now before this happened, I could see Thaskin leaving the politcial stage. Locking up what "he" considers was earnt through creation, operation and sale of AIS, is at the route cause of why he will not leave. I have said it before, if you mess with a mans wife he gets angry, if you mess with his money he gets revenge!

All of you, rich and poor, what would you do if all you had worked for in your life was taken under government control before 5pm today. Now there's going to be some idiots say you've got nothing and so it doesn't matter(forget it, it's already said). Seriously, what would you do?

Thaksin ulitimately is not going anywhere until his families fortune is returned.

Well the reasons it was impounded was because he tried an end run on taxes,

bigger than most districts whole yearly budgets...still under question, innocent until proven guilty unless a kangaroo court is your favoured system of judiciary

It is impounded pending his court cases. He has walked on the court cases,

so he isn't getting a percentage of his pile back till the underlying issues are adjudicated. so prior cases of this in Thailand, just one! show that this is legal under 1997 Constituion.

It is FAR from his whole pile, he has salted HUGE sums out of the country,

counter to Thai law i might add, enough to buy and sell football teams...you dont know how he has moved his money

So it's not like his life's work has 100% been stolen from him.

He dodged taxes, (still not proved and under SET rules, you dont pay tax on sales of shares) and this is assets lockdown is SOP for most countries

to lock down the pile until the courts decide what is LEGITIMATELY his.

And it surely is NOT a full 70 billion baht...

He thinks he has done no wrong and it's all his...

They think he has done at LEAST 5 things wrong, and want the courts to decide

what percentage, less fines and taxes, he gets back.

Wifey is convicted of one thing so far.

He of course wants it ALL.... unbridled HUBRIS!!!

If he had not laughed in the face of the whole country with the Temasek sale / tax dodge,

this would not be happening. But his hubris lead him to think he could do ANYTHING he wanted.

Not so in a civilized society. He is now paying that price, and taking many others along for the ride.

You completely missed the point! He sold his company (or do you dispute this, with or without control or not as it was in his kids name), all done with legal consultation (whether good or bad) and he wants to proceeds from it. The rest you have written is rambling.

You have not answered my question? Try too? Seriously!

So my point is, as this arguement is, Thaksin has all the answers ("Anand"), I don't think Thaskin is going to remove himself from the political scene whilst his money is tied up, simple!

Edited October 16, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[Old Man River]

So my point is I don't think Thaskin is going to remove himself from the political scene whilst his money is tied up, simple!

Do you think he would remove himself from the Thai political scene if his money is unfrozen?

[Plus]

Thaksin has all the answers ("Anand"), I don't think Thaskin is going to remove himself from the political scene whilst his money is tied up, simple!

That's a very solid point.

Anand, btw, knows it very well, too ("I don't need to give him advise, he's a smart man").

Thaksin CAN make the problems go away, but he WON'T.

Eventually he will have to give up, though - too many enemies, too little progress (if any), and with every new problem blamed up to him, it's increasingly becoming a fight against the whole country.

I mean, his Hun Sen connection will be exploited to no end, and his phone calls on the eve of Oct 7 will always be remembered and brought up.

His dogs just confirmed their loyalties - they will fight to the end, and it's not too far away, time is not on their side.

[Old Man River]

However my instinct is that the elite may finally see sense and a compromise will be agreed, probably Thai style behind scenes.The PAD leadership will then be summarily despatched to the oblivion (metaphorically), and the decent PAD rank and file will have to rally behind a political party, probably the Dems.

While I agree a back door deal is probable, it needs to include a material, fundamental change in the political system or the appointed caretaker government won't survive the next election. Bangkok power groups may agree about what they want, but as long as the northeast voting block remains as is, a return to a Thaksin/nominee styled government is likely. If the coup did one thing, it was to show that reverting to the existing political system is not the answer.

The trick is to keep the current MPs employed but without the power. "New politics" doesn't give them any space to live, but mandated decentralisation with local governor elections, and proportional vote for the House itself would keep them at bay.

Proportional vote in the house would be a minimum, in my view. However it is achieved, it needs to be done soon. I don't think the country can take much more of this given the economic problems on the horizon.

[Samuian]

Unfortunately, I don't read Nuttawut's comments as meaning Thaksin, when he referred to "the real culprit".

Sure not!

That is in the the comments and someone even refer to him as "Nutter-o-what?"

"Gleiwitz tactics", deceit, disguise, distraction, disinformation, sowing confusion, insecurity....cover up's.

As he quit politics for good, how long ago?

As his "honest mistake" concealing much of his assets and then claiming he wasn't aware of the extra billions, held by his gardener, chauffeur, housemaid.

As his brother in law claims not to have heard from him in a long time, and that he is not involved in decision making in Thai-Politics...

The bomb scares... and, and, and the list of his "honest mistakes" is quite long, looks like he enjoys making this kind of mistake, still just labeled "honest" doesn't make any of the deals more honest!

I think the current mess will be sorted out by the courts, not by political parties. The PPP and most likely the present Prime Minister are going down the tubes. It will be interesting to see if the next incarnation of PPP will learn from its mistakes and fight a clean(er) election next time, or not.

I see it very much going the same way - no other way feasible really.

The system will have to be regulated by court decisions and the "old team" will have to be dissolved for good, any reformation will bear the same mark on its forehead and is going to fail and falter again and again...

It will prove to be a tough challenge to keep the boys at bay!

Edited October 16, 2008 by Samuian

[hammered]

However my instinct is that the elite may finally see sense and a compromise will be agreed, probably Thai style behind scenes.The PAD leadership will then be summarily despatched to the oblivion (metaphorically), and the decent PAD rank and file will have to rally behind a political party, probably the Dems.

While I agree a back door deal is probable, it needs to include a material, fundamental change in the political system or the appointed caretaker government won't survive the next election. Bangkok power groups may agree about what they want, but as long as the northeast voting block remains as is, a return to a Thaksin/nominee styled government is likely. If the coup did one thing, it was to show that reverting to the existing political system is not the answer.

The trick is to keep the current MPs employed but without the power. "New politics" doesn't give them any space to live, but mandated decentralisation with local governor elections, and proportional vote for the House itself would keep them at bay.

Proportional vote in the house would be a minimum, in my view. However it is achieved, it needs to be done soon. I don't think the country can take much more of this given the economic problems on the horizon.

I agree it will be soon, ot the end of part one will be soon. Watch out for trigger events. There are court cases. There is the Cambodia shananugans and there is what happened on October 7. I suspect something will happen in a court case but I dont know what. Maybe if Somchai loses his MP status another round of new cabinets will get us there. The faltering economy will focu minds on all sides as one thing is for sure they dont want their businesses failing. Im also not sure aboutthe border dispute. While it distracts from Oct 7 on the one hand, it also makes it hard for all those ex-TRT guys with business interests in Cambodia ( Thais aint popular)

In the long though whatever the outcvome of part one we still have to await the inevitable sequels, which may or may not include the current players.

[hammered]

However my instinct is that the elite may finally see sense and a compromise will be agreed, probably Thai style behind scenes.The PAD leadership will then be summarily despatched to the oblivion (metaphorically), and the decent PAD rank and file will have to rally behind a political party, probably the Dems.

While I agree a back door deal is probable, it needs to include a material, fundamental change in the political system or the appointed caretaker government won't survive the next election. Bangkok power groups may agree about what they want, but as long as the northeast voting block remains as is, a return to a Thaksin/nominee styled government is likely. If the coup did one thing, it was to show that reverting to the existing political system is not the answer.

The trick is to keep the current MPs employed but without the power. "New politics" doesn't give them any space to live, but mandated decentralisation with local governor elections, and proportional vote for the House itself would keep them at bay.

Proportional vote in the house would be a minimum, in my view. However it is achieved, it needs to be done soon. I don't think the country can take much more of this given the economic problems on the horizon.

PR with no constituencies is about the only democratic proposal the T opposition could come up with that would make it very difficult for T man and his servitors to continue to dominate politics as now. It is also more democratic in nature as all votes are equal and none are wasted as in constituency systems.

We will however see. What seems obvious to us may not to those in the Thai political cicrles who seem to like what they have now.

[fidelio]

Thaksin has all the answers ("Anand"), I don't think Thaskin is going to remove himself from the political scene whilst his money is tied up, simple!

That's a very solid point.

Anand, btw, knows it very well, too ("I don't need to give him advise, he's a smart man").

Thaksin CAN make the problems go away, but he WON'T.

Eventually he will have to give up, though - too many enemies, too little progress (if any), and with every new problem blamed up to him, it's increasingly becoming a fight against the whole country.

I mean, his Hun Sen connection will be exploited to no end, and his phone calls on the eve of Oct 7 will always be remembered and brought up.

His dogs just confirmed their loyalties - they will fight to the end, and it's not too far away, time is not on their side.

Time is on Thaksin's side.

He is just waiting for the inevitable to happen .

[Plus]

He has pissed off too many people, and anyway, you are aiming a bit too high for a lowly businessman like Thaksin.

[jayjayjayjay]

So my point is I don't think Thaskin is going to remove himself from the political scene whilst his money is tied up, simple!

Do you think he would remove himself from the Thai political scene if his money is unfrozen?

That is the million dollar question. I'd say with his experience so far, behind the scene dealing with the judiciary to wipe the slate clean might have to be a sweetener, if that was the case, then I think I'd answer, "yes"!

[fidelio]

Eventually he will have to give up, though - too many enemies, too little progress (if any), and with every new problem blamed up to him, it's increasingly becoming a fight against the whole country.

Absolute rubbish. Just get out of Bangkok and you will understand that most Thais still love him .

And BTW I do not like him at all.

[OyvindBallestad]

I think we are here more talking about a plea for Thaksin to come back and do some diplomatic work, take responsibility for some of his pasts wrongs, perhaps open the possiblity that not all was done well before.

And there should be negotiations, or dialogue between leaders of all sides.