Only Thaksin Could Unlock Country's Problems : Anand

[AlKing]

We are in a deep world economic crisis, not unlike 1997 asian economic crisis. We will need people like Thaksin to bring Thailand onto a right discovery path. Although I do not quite like him too, but I must admit he did a great job of bringing Thailand out of recession.

[h90]

Eventually he will have to give up, though - too many enemies, too little progress (if any), and with every new problem blamed up to him, it's increasingly becoming a fight against the whole country.

Absolute rubbish. Just get out of Bangkok and you will understand that most Thais still love him .

And BTW I do not like him at all.

Most Thais, beside all the south, beside the eastern coast, beside the centers of all main cities.

What you have left are rural areas. You can't run thailand against the middle class, rich and educated unless you make a communist dictatorship.

[citizen33]

You can't run thailand against the middle class, rich and educated unless you make a communist dictatorship.

Or a one-person, one-vote system where the will of the majority is accepted by the minority? By the way I fully agree that elections do need proper monitoring and that some degree of political decentralisation might be a good thing. Actually (he says half jokingly) I wouldn't be surprised if many in the North and Isaan wouldn't go for the idea of devolved regional parliaments and partial self government: they might at last get a fair crack of the whip!

Edited October 16, 2008 by citizen33

[Samuian]

t he did a great job of bringing Thailand out of recession.

Good one!

He took over office from Chuan whose Cabinet did do all the cleaning, hence it was close to finish, he took over the glory... ahh... well..

If you wish to educate your self on this subject:

Political Change in Thailand:

Political Change in Thailand: Democracy and Participation

by Kevin Hewison - 1997

long, long before Taxin took the helm, many of the things he claims or are attributed by his fans to him, have been laid out already!

Since 1992 Chuans administration put most efforts into economic decentralization this policy was considered an important strategy to alleviate rural poverty and slow or reduce the urban migration!

In the Eighties much of an effort under Prem was made regarding the same problem!

Much of this was simply usurped by the Taxin Team and sold as the agenda of the TRT - new wrapping for a decade old strategy!

[h90]

You can't run thailand against the middle class, rich and educated unless you make a communist dictatorship.

Or a one-person, one-vote system where the will of the majority is accepted by the minority? By the way I fully agree that elections do need proper monitoring and that some degree of political decentralisation might be a good thing. Actually (he says half jokingly) I wouldn't be surprised if many in the North and Isaan wouldn't go for the idea of devolved regional parliaments and partial self government: they might at last get a fair crack of the whip!

I think in an election without vote buying the love would fade away. As well many of the poor was brought to the election, well organized. And look at the last result the PPP did not win that much and two of the coalition parties told before that they would never make a coalition with the PPP.

just move a 5-10 % from pro Thaksin to anti Thaksin and everything looks very different.

[animatic]

I don't believe that any "deal" would work at all if it is not acceptable to people at the street level. I said that long time ago - if there were forces trying to manipulate PAD, it's out of their hands now. The only authority that would be able to influence PAD is not going to be involved in any deal making with someone like Thaksin, and that's about all that can be said on this matter.

What is left out of this discussion is, the military appointed ASC have locked up B70 billion plus of Thaksin's money! Now before this happened, I could see Thaskin leaving the politcial stage. Locking up what "he" considers was earnt through creation, operation and sale of AIS, is at the route cause of why he will not leave. I have said it before, if you mess with a mans wife he gets angry, if you mess with his money he gets revenge!

All of you, rich and poor, what would you do if all you had worked for in your life was taken under government control before 5pm today. Now there's going to be some idiots say you've got nothing and so it doesn't matter(forget it, it's already said). Seriously, what would you do?

Thaksin ulitimately is not going anywhere until his families fortune is returned.

Well the reasons it was impounded was because he tried an end run on taxes,

bigger than most districts whole yearly budgets...still under question, innocent until proven guilty unless a kangaroo court is your favoured system of judiciary

It is impounded pending his court cases. He has walked on the court cases,

so he isn't getting a percentage of his pile back till the underlying issues are adjudicated. so prior cases of this in Thailand, just one! show that this is legal under 1997 Constituion.

It is FAR from his whole pile, he has salted HUGE sums out of the country,

counter to Thai law i might add, enough to buy and sell football teams...you dont know how he has moved his money

So it's not like his life's work has 100% been stolen from him.

He dodged taxes, (still not proved and under SET rules, you dont pay tax on sales of shares) and this is assets lockdown is SOP for most countries

to lock down the pile until the courts decide what is LEGITIMATELY his.

And it surely is NOT a full 70 billion baht...

He thinks he has done no wrong and it's all his...

They think he has done at LEAST 5 things wrong, and want the courts to decide

what percentage, less fines and taxes, he gets back.

Wifey is convicted of one thing so far.

He of course wants it ALL.... unbridled HUBRIS!!!

If he had not laughed in the face of the whole country with the Temasek sale / tax dodge,

this would not be happening. But his hubris lead him to think he could do ANYTHING he wanted.

Not so in a civilized society. He is now paying that price, and taking many others along for the ride.

You completely missed the point! He sold his company (or do you dispute this, with or without control or not as it was in his kids name), all done with legal consultation (whether good or bad) and he wants to proceeds from it. The rest you have written is rambling.

You have not answered my question? Try too? Seriously!

So my point is, as this arguement is, Thaksin has all the answers ("Anand"), I don't think Thaskin is going to remove himself from the political scene whilst his money is tied up, simple!

Well besides the point that it is against forum rules to nest text inside quotes,

and then highlight that because it makes it appear to be said by the quoted person.

It is fairly WELL established that he didn't pay taxes on this.

And most observers believe he should have.

He is charged, and Pojamin is convicted, of using family and servants to AVOID taxation

and attempts at using SET rules in an illegal way. Using the kids as an off shore holding

company that he controls. You REALLY think those kids can control a big company??? Hardly.

It is fairly well established that multiple lawsuits stemming from his clear cut efforts to

HIDE his assets with family and friends is now moving through the courts.

Thailand doesn't charge anyone unless there is MORE than reasonable chance of conviction.

Part of the 'Face' mechanism is; don't charge a puyai unless you can nail him.

In any case under serious supsicion of doing this an more they have

locked down the money until it is all determined.

Based on all the legal interpretations and arguments I have seen, he WILL be found guilty.

and he can try and lay that off on politics. I don't think that floats.

The WILL to go to trial may have a political component,

but he done the deeds, BEFORE during '97 and they were considered illegal then.

I could care less if the commission finding fact existed then, it's a moot point.

Not all rules of SET law, nor rules of malfeasance and theft were changed

with a constitutional change, like you seem to be implying.

The function of the government and it's safeguards were changed.

Not to mention much of the asset value of Shin Corp prior to sale was

LIKELY elevated by administrative corruption, which is ALSO going to court now.

There is enough reasonable doubt about the origin of Shin's value,

and it's stock manuevering prior to sale, and it's off shore housing

and it's nominees, that locking down the pile is the ONLY prudent government choice.

I have said it before I was a big fan of his, until I learned more,

and watched his mind unrevel during 2006. Now I can't imagine

a worse person at the helm of Thailand.

Edited October 16, 2008 by animatic

[animatic]

Eventually he will have to give up, though - too many enemies, too little progress (if any), and with every new problem blamed up to him, it's increasingly becoming a fight against the whole country.

Absolute rubbish. Just get out of Bangkok and you will understand that most Thais still love him .

And BTW I do not like him at all.

I am out of Bangkok and he is pretty much disliked.

[citizen33]

I think in an election without vote buying the love would fade away. As well many of the poor was brought to the election, well organized. And look at the last result the PPP did not win that much and two of the coalition parties told before that they would never make a coalition with the PPP.

just move a 5-10 % from pro Thaksin to anti Thaksin and everything looks very different.

Well if that analysis is correct, and because there are so many imponderables it may be, why don't PAD and many TV posters go down that route and argue for a radical clean-up of the voting process, with external monitors and so on? I've seen some debate on this in the international commentatory and one argument that is run is that the Democrats (and PAD supporters) would indeed have a real chance in a swing situation but have instead opted for the anti-democratic route. That is what turns a lot of people off.

I just know one small area of Isaan but my assessment is that there is real political support for the populist policies, with or without vote buying (which does happen).

Edited October 16, 2008 by citizen33

[AlKing]

"Since 1992 Chuans administration put most efforts into economic decentralization this policy was considered an important strategy to alleviate rural poverty and slow or reduce the urban migration!"

If Chaun government have been fixing the problems (as the writer claim) since 1992, why 5 years later Thailand started the Tom-Yum Khung crisis which bring down the whole of Asia? Obviously it must a an accumulation of mis-management that finally resulted the big collasp.

And who have to come in to clean up the mass? The mandate of the people kick Chaovalit out and invited Thaksin in.

[animatic]

t he did a great job of bringing Thailand out of recession.

Good one!

He took over office from Chuan whose Cabinet did do all the cleaning, hence it was close to finish, he took over the glory... ahh... well..

If you wish to educate your self on this subject:

Political Change in Thailand:

Political Change in Thailand: Democracy and Participation

by Kevin Hewison - 1997

long, long before Taxin took the helm, many of the things he claims or are attributed by his fans to him, have been laid out already!

Since 1992 Chuans administration put most efforts into economic decentralization this policy was considered an important strategy to alleviate rural poverty and slow or reduce the urban migration!

In the Eighties much of an effort under Prem was made regarding the same problem!

Much of this was simply usurped by the Taxin Team and sold as the agenda of the TRT - new wrapping for a decade old strategy!

Just as the USA republicans leave the USA Dems a trashed system they must fix often with taxes,

the '97 crash left the incumbents with a bad deal that they dealt with.

But enough pain was necessarily apportioned to allow Thaksin and crew to swoop in

and preside of a final 10% or economicy recovery.

Hey folks LOOK AT THE GOOD TIMES WE DONE BRUNG Y'ALL!!!!

As usual the ones using good fiscal restraint and correcting gross disparities get no credit,

and the johnny comlatelys gobble up the goodies and the aclaim, till they over reach.

Edited October 16, 2008 by animatic

[steveromagnino]

"Since 1992 Chuans administration put most efforts into economic decentralization this policy was considered an important strategy to alleviate rural poverty and slow or reduce the urban migration!"

If Chaun government have been fixing the problems (as the writer claim) since 1992, why 5 years later Thailand started the Tom-Yum Khung crisis which bring down the whole of Asia? Obviously it must a an accumulation of mis-management that finally resulted the big collasp.

And who have to come in to clean up the mass? The mandate of the people kick Chaovalit out and invited Thaksin in.

Where do you come up with this....

The government in the early 90s was relatively responsible, then Banharn and the Chavalit government (including Thaksin for a period) sent the country into the 1997 crash, alledgedly profiteering from the baht's collapse by short selling it to send a variety of companies close to bust including CPB and many of the state owned companies such as Siam Cement.

The collapse was brewing since probably 1995, and more likely really was brewing for the 10 years prior to that even; however at least a large share of the blame should be pinned on the finance and government ministers in power for 1996-97 who oversaw the collapse.

I don't think there is any dispute that AIS was one of the companies that sold off all US denominated debt several months prior to Chavalit floating the baht, and it is highly likely as a former deputy finance minister IIRC that Thaksin would be likely to have known of the decision to float the baht had there been any inclination to do so and any insider trading. All his telco rivals were effectively crippled by 2 major factors; one the fact he got the GSM 2 watt technology which required less capital outlay to set up his network (granted IIRC by Chavalit) and two that he didn't end up saddled with a debt that doubled overnight as the baht collapsed.

Chuan's government were responsible for most of the tough decisions that helped strengthen the Thai economy from 1997-2001; there was no 'mandate' of the people to kick out Chavalit and get Thaksin in. They were also about to deregulate the telco industry as mandated by the 1997 constitution which all of PPP now often claim was the best constitution - didn't stop them from denying Thailand a quality telecomms backbone from 2001 - 2006 when they effectively blocked every possible route to telcom deregulation and routinely attempted and did change laws to favour AIS; as described euphomistically during that period to explain AIS's higher share price analysts would write stuff like 'AIS belonging to the Prime Minister's family effectively carries a premium and gets its fair share of favourable regulations and law'

Actually, Chavalit returned to power as part of the TRT coalition in 2001, and not long after when Soros planned to visit there was a huge accusation from the government that Soros was responsible for the collapse of the baht; even though there is almost no documentation to suggest his involvement and probably more evidence to indict the former finance ministers of the 1996/97 period. So far from being kicked out by Thaksin....it was Thaksin that brought him back in as, IIRC Deputy PM of that period; and big Jew actually was involved in setting up the CDMA network that the Democrats began; making sure it would never work etc etc.

I suppose given that he was connected to the bozos that led the country into complete collapse in 1997; placing Chavalit into the Deputy PM position recently AGAIN; that yes, if we wanted to see the country bankrupted again that Thaksin would indeed be the kind of stand up guy we'd like around the place. Great to see all the same players like Banharn still at the trough also.

However, in the time of a global crisis do we really want total twits who have never given any sign that they know what they are doing the chance to show for a 2nd time the ability to drive a country to ruin (once in 1997, again in the last 9 months, next time????)

TRT's so called success in the early 2000s.....it was the result of cheap credit, low oil prices and pent up savings and demand since 1997. There ain't no magic in looking good in that environment. Long term sustainable competitive advantage??? MIA under TRT.

[steveromagnino]

So my point is I don't think Thaskin is going to remove himself from the political scene whilst his money is tied up, simple!

Do you think he would remove himself from the Thai political scene if his money is unfrozen?

That is the million dollar question. I'd say with his experience so far, behind the scene dealing with the judiciary to wipe the slate clean might have to be a sweetener, if that was the case, then I think I'd answer, "yes"!

When he already said directly that he would quit politics back in early 2006 some people believed him.

After he ran his fraudulent election and couldn't even get back into power running almost unopposed (thanks to his loser MPs like Pimol Srivikorn would wasn't even able to get 80% of the vote running against the choice to abstain, plus his own party's decision to fund some tiny parties as opposition) some might say he kind of lost some of his credibility; after all these are not the usual actions of a person who has quit.

The Thai interpretation on this is quite clear; it is ok to say you will never do something; and you should stand by your word. However, it something significant changes, then all bets are off and back you come. Kind of like a boxer retiring.

Had he said he was retiring, then after all that has happened to try to come back now, that would be seen by many as quite ok.

However, in the period of saying he would retire, then changing his mind within weeks; most people recall and know who he gave his promise to, and that nothing significant changed. So why would anyone trust him this time, if his word couldn't be trusted last time??!

If you know Thaksin personally, then perhaps you have a greater insight, however I can't help but feel this is a bit of guessing what would he do based on almost no knowledge of the guy. I don't doubt there are attempts to cut a deal right now, but certainly in public when you have the hero parade he got upon return; the big snub at the funeral; the proxy fight going on right now with actors representing both sides to some degree....I am not sure it will be easy for anyone to find middle ground as both sides don't really trust the long term ambitions of the other side especially with the inevitable changes in future.

Edited October 16, 2008 by steveromagnino

[animatic]

Steve, two great and very clear posts, Thanks.

I suspect that much of he wealth earned during time in office,

culminating on his Temasek sale was based on insider trading.

This seems to be the courts general feelings so far.

~and the main reason this cash is locked up.

[Plus]

..Just get out of Bangkok and you will understand that most Thais still love him .

I'm sorry to break it to you, but these "most Thais" are not the ones to shovel the shit left by Thaksin. They are not the ones dealing with Cambodians, they are not the ones dealing with global crisis, they are not the ones balancing high oil imports with slowing exports, they are not the ones losing trillions on the stock exchange, they are not the ones looking at shrinking business in leading industries.

Anyone looking at anything beyond their own nose realises that Thaksin and his endless fight is a bad bad bad news. They probably loved him five years ago, too, but those days are gone. Now Thaksin means bloodshed and violence and government that is not allowed into its office.

You can talk the number of Thaksin fans all you want, but you can't fight against people who contribute, like, 99% to the country's wealth and well-being. Unless you run a communist dictorship, as h90 mentioned.

[old wanderer]

Well sitting here in my Europe this rainy evening, got to wonder what if??????

What is Thailand would put a bounty on Thaskins and Potjiman's head....for return to court....

Where is Dog the Bounty Hunter??

Would some sort of long in the tooth, expat adventures try and grab the cash???

What a fun adventure that would be.....and all for the good of Thailand as well.

Until we see scum like Potjiman and Sinawat in jail for these crimes, we will never see Thailand change and move toward a free and just society

[sriracha john]

Where is Dog the Bounty Hunter??

he's been waiting on the call since August....

the billionaire had flown to London from Beijing in violation of his bail terms.

He's just a common bail-jumper now.... call in the bounty hunters...

Call in... The Dog

[Plus]

This "dog" looks like a perfect prop for Tony Jaa and his Muai Thai kicks.

They should find someone like Jet Li instead.

[younghusband]

..Just get out of Bangkok and you will understand that most Thais still love him .

I'm sorry to break it to you, but these "most Thais" are not the ones to shovel the shit left by Thaksin. They are not the ones dealing with Cambodians, they are not the ones dealing with global crisis, they are not the ones balancing high oil imports with slowing exports, they are not the ones losing trillions on the stock exchange, they are not the ones looking at shrinking business in leading industries.

Anyone looking at anything beyond their own nose realises that Thaksin and his endless fight is a bad bad bad news. They probably loved him five years ago, too, but those days are gone. Now Thaksin means bloodshed and violence and government that is not allowed into its office.

You can talk the number of Thaksin fans all you want, but you can't fight against people who contribute, like, 99% to the country's wealth and well-being. Unless you run a communist dictorship, as h90 mentioned.

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are saying.You appear to concede most Thais support Thaksin but because they are not dealing with the arbitrary issues you mention they somehow don't count.Then you say the situation in fact no longer applies compared with five years ago.Then you ludicrously say or imply that the majority of Thais make up no more than 1% to the country's wealth and well being.This is all disagreable fascist nonsense rather typical of the frustrated lower middle class, and also economic illiteracy.I see you are also quoting h90 as a intellectual source.Says it all really.

[animatic]

Seeing a good cross section of Thai people from Issan workers

to middle class managers to Hi So owners, and many other areas and clesses represented,

I have found a miniscule percent in favor of Thaksin's return these days.

it's hard to find ANYONE supporting him.

There seems a higher percent of Expats wanting his return, here.

And mostly on philosophical reasons.

And most all would rather meet Jet Li too.

Y.H. h90 is not very good in his 4th language english,

but he is far from stupid as you imply. So don't confuse a view point you dislike,

and not enough time learning a new language, while running a business,

with lack of inteligence...

Edited October 17, 2008 by animatic

[AlKing]

Seeing a good cross section of Thai people from Issan workers

to middle class managers to Hi So owners, and many other areas and clesses represented,

I have found a miniscule percent in favor of Thaksin's return these days.

it's hard to find ANYONE supporting him.

There seems a higher percent of Expats wanting his return, here.

And mostly on philosophical reasons.

And most all would rather meet Jet Li too.

Expat wanting Thaksin returns? You must be joking. Remember who shut the bar at 2am? Certainly not me.

However, I dislike the PAD even more. Shuting down Phuket airport on the day that I need it.

[Plus]

I don't think "most Thais" support Thaksin, but it also depends on how you define "support". Don't forget that Democrats got more votes than PPP on the national party/national politics/national leaders list - and that's the list by which you should judge ideological changes you love to talk about.

Let's say there is a referendum with one question - Should Thaksin come back and to take charge of the country and to

solve all the problems his way?

There's no doubt in my mind that it will be defeated by a large margin, and there's no doubt in anyone's mind that political figthing will only become worse and nothing will be solved if Thaskin is allowed back in.

Will there be people who'd say "I still love Thaksin, I'll vote for him to come back"? Sure, plenty of them. Who do you think those would be? I assume rural farmers.

Now, let's look at the numbers - agriculture adds only 10% to Thai GDP, and we have to deduct farmers in the South and elsewhere, and farmers who don't support Thaksin, even in Isan it's not 100% solid, and farmers at the top of the food chain who might have middle class outlook (they also produce and contribute relatively more).

My initial estimate is not that far off even in the strict sense.

Next, you accused me of saying that millions of Thaksin supporters shouldn't count because they are poor. That is not what I said. I said that YOU can't ignore and you can't fight people who contribute 99% to country's wealth, and this is exactly what will happen if the alleged majority would have its way.

Reminds me of an old article in Database about smart ID cards. The commission sat down and voted that there is enough memory on them to comply with specifications. Of course you can't vote that 28MB is more than 32, but that's exactly what they did. You can't vote that Thaksin will come back and everything will be just fine. It won't, no matter how many votes he gets.

[younghusband]

Y.H. h90 is not very good in his 4th language english,

but he is far from stupid as you imply. So don't confuse a view point you dislike,

and not enough time learning a new language, while running a business,

with lack of inteligence...

Don't patronise me.The poor English is not an issue.I am very well aware of what constitutes intelligence, knowledge and perception - when these are present and when they are not.It has nothing to do with politics.

[Doalittle]

If the government asks him back he can defend the government's court action to confiscate his 7billion Baht held in Thai BANKS.

Then that's small change to Mr Taskin

[younghusband]

I don't think "most Thais" support Thaksin, but it also depends on how you define "support". Don't forget that Democrats got more votes than PPP on the national party/national politics/national leaders list - and that's the list by which you should judge ideological changes you love to talk about.

Let's say there is a referendum with one question - Should Thaksin come back and to take charge of the country and to

solve all the problems his way?

There's no doubt in my mind that it will be defeated by a large margin, and there's no doubt in anyone's mind that political figthing will only become worse and nothing will be solved if Thaskin is allowed back in.

Will there be people who'd say "I still love Thaksin, I'll vote for him to come back"? Sure, plenty of them. Who do you think those would be? I assume rural farmers.

Now, let's look at the numbers - agriculture adds only 10% to Thai GDP, and we have to deduct farmers in the South and elsewhere, and farmers who don't support Thaksin, even in Isan it's not 100% solid, and farmers at the top of the food chain who might have middle class outlook (they also produce and contribute relatively more).

My initial estimate is not that far off even in the strict sense.

Next, you accused me of saying that millions of Thaksin supporters shouldn't count because they are poor. That is not what I said. I said that YOU can't ignore and you can't fight people who contribute 99% to country's wealth, and this is exactly what will happen if the alleged majority would have its way.

Reminds me of an old article in Database about smart ID cards. The commission sat down and voted that there is enough memory on them to comply with specifications. Of course you can't vote that 28MB is more than 32, but that's exactly what they did. You can't vote that Thaksin will come back and everything will be just fine. It won't, no matter how many votes he gets.

One of your assumptions is that Thaksin's appeal is limited to uneducated rural farmers.I think he has a far larger constituency.

As to the referendum you are probably right, though the margin might be smaller than you think.Most Thais simply want to get on with their lives.

I'm not going to comment on your points about wealth creation.I'm assuming economics is not your field but happy to discuss separately.

I don't see any end to all this until there is a recognition of at least some positive contributions from Thaksin.At the moment there are still millions of Thais who still see Thaksin as someone who gave them dignity and hope.They probably feel now the elite, rather as you do, treats them with contempt.

[Plus]

One of your assumptions is that Thaksin's appeal is limited to uneducated rural farmers.

There's no way to judge it, but I don't see anyone supporting his cause outside PPP. That was not the case five years ago.

[AlKing]

Is it a safe statement to say that most foreign press are in support of the current government; and against PAD? At least CNN, BBC, CCTV, Aljazeera, CNA, TNA, AP Reuters, Bloomberg etc, IMHO, has been bias in support of the current Thai government.

Or is it just a courtesy of the media to take side of current governemnt in power, regardless, just to make sure that they are not banded from selling their media in that country?

What do you think? I would like to hear if there is any international reputable media that pro PAD? Please leave ASTV, TOC & NBT out.

[younghusband]

Is it a safe statement to say that most foreign press are in support of the current government; and against PAD? At least CNN, BBC, CCTV, Aljazeera, CNA, TNA, AP Reuters, Bloomberg etc, IMHO, has been bias in support of the current Thai government.

Or is it just a courtesy of the media to take side of current governemnt in power, regardless, just to make sure that they are not banded from selling their media in that country?

What do you think? I would like to hear if there is any international reputable media that pro PAD? Please leave ASTV, TOC & NBT out.

I think one needs to be a little bit careful here.You are obviously right to say that the international press and media are overwhelmingly sceptical about PAD.Nevertheless there is I think recognition that there are decent PAD rank and file members (the cynics might say the useful fools) who are involved through their distaste for Thaksin's meglomania in particular.and the corruption and mediocrity of politicians in general.However the foreign press, particularly so in the case of those that have correspondents here, has tended to focus on the disgusting nature of the PAD's leadership, its fascist tactics, military and feudal links, its plentiful though obscurely sourced sources of finance and profoundly undemocratic philosophy.

[Splatter]

Is it a safe statement to say that most foreign press are in support of the current government; and against PAD? At least CNN, BBC, CCTV, Aljazeera, CNA, TNA, AP Reuters, Bloomberg etc, IMHO, has been bias in support of the current Thai government.

Or is it just a courtesy of the media to take side of current governemnt in power, regardless, just to make sure that they are not banded from selling their media in that country?

What do you think? I would like to hear if there is any international reputable media that pro PAD? Please leave ASTV, TOC & NBT out.

I think many overseas media can't get past the

"if a government is voted in then that is democracy"

issue.

[thaihome]

If anyone wonders why the PAD is so concerned about security maybe you should look at this photo and see what they are making sure doesn't happen to them.

TH

[steveromagnino]

I think one needs to be a little bit careful here.You are obviously right to say that the international press and media are overwhelmingly sceptical about PAD.Nevertheless there is I think recognition that there are decent PAD rank and file members (the cynics might say the useful fools) who are involved through their distaste for Thaksin's meglomania in particular.and the corruption and mediocrity of politicians in general.However the foreign press, particularly so in the case of those that have correspondents here, has tended to focus on the disgusting nature of the PAD's leadership, its fascist tactics, military and feudal links, its plentiful though obscurely sourced sources of finance and profoundly undemocratic philosophy.

I would agree; while many publications such as Economist don't have a full time guy here so really struggle to understand the issues, there are a few who tend to have a fairly fixed opinion one way or the other (as we all tend to do) but report fairly objectively.

I am not sure, speaking to my friends in the Thai and foreign media that people are pro Thaksin or pro PAD. It is more a case of being anti that group - ie. the PPP is not as bad as the loons from PAD; or Thaksin is a complete meglomaniac and his henchmen are idiots who are corrupt so PAD is better than them.

I admit the Economist is a fair way out most of the time regarding Thailand (and this has been fairly consistent since before TRT); they don't tend to get issues right in countries like NZ either, so best read to get a handle on UK/USA/Europe issues which they do outstandingly well.

BUt as for our options now.....It is kind of like being at the bar at 2am; all the decent girls are gone, and it is the choice of the cross eyed one with the buck teeth or the slightly plump one with the club foot.

What is starting to really get my goat is that 'envelope number 3' is not appearing; it is quite obvious the hero to most Thais still is not able to do much until this occurs; it is probably the preferred choice of most voters and Thai citizens who are sick of this pointless bun fight - antics like showing up to funerals and whatnot (which I do not believe had anything to do with my hero) actually are putting that envelope number 3 further away than ever.

Why the Democrats can't f&*king get off their ass and take it NOW is beyond me; the jao pors are waiting for someone to open the doors to the trough again and would be willing to switch sides I am sure; while they are the maggots of Thai politics over time there is a chance to wash them out with a dose of dettol EXCEPT it requires strong leadership and clear objectives with at least some oversight to prevent the situation that unfolded from about 2004 onwards and in Chuan 1 and 2.

Please dear god can't you f&*king guys step up and just come out with 4 clear policies; form a coalition with a regional jao por rural party so the rural voters have someone to choose from, and then keep those gangsters under control while we build an economy.

It isn't rocket science.

But I know PPP will never be able to do this. They are morons.