Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[flying]

Should be an interesting week+

FOMC meeting this week & COMEX option expiration early next week

[gregb]

Even the Swiss are now admitting gold is a currency. Still think you can't use gold in day to day commerce? How about for trading Swiss securities.

Naam is the last holdout. When he finally admits gold is in fact money, the conversion will be complete.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/Swiss_first_to_use_gold_in_securities_payments.html?cid=31167922

[BuckarooBanzai]

Even the Swiss are now admitting gold is a currency. Still think you can't use gold in day to day commerce? How about for trading Swiss securities.

Naam is the last holdout. When he finally admits gold is in fact money, the conversion will be complete.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/Swiss_first_to_use_gold_in_securities_payments.html?cid=31167922

Why would anyone think gold is a savior of ones liquidity. Commodities are worth what people are willing to pay. Precious metals are really nice and very useful in electronics and jewelry but the rest is hype. At some point the governments are going to nationalize precious metal holdings and all the happy ones will be left with empty bags. The brotherhood of the rich will fall to the necessities of the governments and wonder where they went wrong. Greed!!!! Just a thought!

[midas]

Even the Swiss are now admitting gold is a currency. Still think you can't use gold in day to day commerce? How about for trading Swiss securities.

Naam is the last holdout. When he finally admits gold is in fact money, the conversion will be complete.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/Swiss_first_to_use_gold_in_securities_payments.html?cid=31167922

Why would anyone think gold is a savior of ones liquidity. Commodities are worth what people are willing to pay. Precious metals are really nice and very useful in electronics and jewelry but the rest is hype. At some point the governments are going to nationalize precious metal holdings and all the happy ones will be left with empty bags. The brotherhood of the rich will fall to the necessities of the governments and wonder where they went wrong. Greed!!!! Just a thought!

I have tried telling the Chinese and Indians that but they just won't listen

Meanwhile I think greed is better defined by the bankers bonuses paid in Monopoly money

[BuckarooBanzai]

Even the Swiss are now admitting gold is a currency. Still think you can't use gold in day to day commerce? How about for trading Swiss securities.

Naam is the last holdout. When he finally admits gold is in fact money, the conversion will be complete.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/Swiss_first_to_use_gold_in_securities_payments.html?cid=31167922

Why would anyone think gold is a savior of ones liquidity. Commodities are worth what people are willing to pay. Precious metals are really nice and very useful in electronics and jewelry but the rest is hype. At some point the governments are going to nationalize precious metal holdings and all the happy ones will be left with empty bags. The brotherhood of the rich will fall to the necessities of the governments and wonder where they went wrong. Greed!!!! Just a thought!

I have tried telling the Chinese and Indians that but they just won't listen

Meanwhile I think greed is better defined by the bankers bonuses paid in Monopoly money

As far as greed goes I think you mistake the help from the management!

[12DrinkMore]

Even the Swiss are now admitting gold is a currency. Still think you can't use gold in day to day commerce? How about for trading Swiss securities.

Naam is the last holdout. When he finally admits gold is in fact money, the conversion will be complete.

http://www.swissinfo...ml?cid=31167922

Gold is a commodity.

Currencies are essentially legitimised by the requirement to pay taxes in the respective currency.

No government on the globe will accept gold as payment for taxes. You have to convert your commodity gold to their currency first.

I doubt that you will be able to open an account with SIX. This bullshit It is heralded as an "industry innovation".

http://www.six-sis.c...110919-gold.pdf

I think the world has had enough of "innovation" emanating out of the finance lot.

The term "finance industry" is incorrect and misleading. Industry implies that real stuff is actually produced. The financial lot only produce cancerous fantasy stuff.

Edited September 20, 2011 by 12DrinkMore

[12DrinkMore]

Meanwhile I think greed is better defined by the bankers bonuses paid in Monopoly money

If that remained monopoly money all would be OK, but it's not. There should be some impenetrable border erected between the fantasy world and the real world, so that the fantasy money doesn't leak out.

Why on earth should anybody get paid a massive number of digits because a bet came off?

Wealth should be produced through the productive use of resources. Investment of real money in profitable "stuff" producing industry should be rewarded.

But now we have reached the sad state where humongous profits can be made through bullshit, basically numbers "in the market", whether they go up or down. Not only is it a total waste of human resources, which should be better employed in looking for solutions to the major issues facing us, but it also causes a lot of the dam_n issues in the first place.

[Naam]

Even the Swiss are now admitting gold is a currency. Still think you can't use gold in day to day commerce? How about for trading Swiss securities.

Naam is the last holdout. When he finally admits gold is in fact money, the conversion will be complete.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/Swiss_first_to_use_gold_in_securities_payments.html?cid=31167922

it is difficult to comment on naïveté³ such as calling a broker/clearing house located in Switzerland "the Swiss". the same applies to a journàsslist who tries to dupe unsuspecting readers that booking values to/from an XAU account means "payment in gold is accepted".

XAU units are nothing but paper gold even though they are [supposed] to be backed 100% by physical gold... as are my gold ETFs CH0047533549 issued by Zürcher Kantonalbank.

next marketing gag from a broker house might be "we accept payment for securities from your cowrie shell account with us! join us in reviving an age old monetary instrument."

[flying]

Currencies are essentially legitimised by the requirement to pay taxes in the respective currency.

No government on the globe will accept gold as payment for taxes. You have to convert your commodity gold to their currency first.

Actually the US does accept gold & silver American Eagles as payment of taxes.

There have been reports of folks trying to do just that

But.........The IRS only counts the declared face value on the coin.

I guess I would accept it under those rules too

A employer thought he would reverse that line of thinking & tried paying his workers

in Silver & gold eagles. Remember Robert Kahre?

http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2009-06-03.asp

[farang000999]

So at what price did you gold bears start shorting gold?

[farang000999]

Even the Swiss are now admitting gold is a currency. Still think you can't use gold in day to day commerce? How about for trading Swiss securities.

Naam is the last holdout. When he finally admits gold is in fact money, the conversion will be complete.

http://www.swissinfo...ml?cid=31167922

it is difficult to comment on naïveté³ such as calling a broker/clearing house located in Switzerland "the Swiss". the same applies to a journàsslist who tries to dupe unsuspecting readers that booking values to/from an XAU account means "payment in gold is accepted".

XAU units are nothing but paper gold even though they are [supposed] to be backed 100% by physical gold... as are my gold ETFs CH0047533549 issued by Zürcher Kantonalbank.

next marketing gag from a broker house might be "we accept payment for securities from your cowrie shell account with us! join us in reviving an age old monetary instrument."

Naam u r one sick kid. you admit that there is paper gold manipulation yet cant figure out that when this house of cards collapses and it becomes apparent that the true amount of gold available is substantially less than previously thought, that the price will sky rocket upwards.

for all who do not believe in gold have fun with your paper money which is backed by the "good word" of honest politicians.

[Naam]

Naam u r one sick kid. you admit that there is paper gold manipulation yet cant figure out that when this house of cards collapses and it becomes apparent that the true amount of gold available is substantially less than previously thought, that the price will sky rocket upwards.

for all who do not believe in gold have fun with your paper money which is backed by the "good word" of honest politicians.

-i did not admit anything. don't put words in my mouth!

-yes i have fun with my paper money.

-i own a substantial amount of physical gold and should the price "skyrocket" it will last more than another lifetime after our reincarnation.

-your thinking that i own paper only is as naïve as the claim gold is not a commodity but a currency.

-i don't have to figure out when this house of cards collapses. experts like you are guiding me since decades.

[Naam]

So at what price did you gold bears start shorting gold?

the last goldbear (TV-member Jcon) got married and stopped his shorting.

but if you think selling means shorting... i did that ~2 weeks ago, bought back less than 50% what i sold and now count clink... clink... clink... my profit. OOPS! sorry! worthless paper does of course not make "clink" sounds.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Naam

[farang000999]

Well I asked before what you owned besides gold since you mentioned only 5-10% should be allocated there. Right now the situation is that we will have either monetary inflation or asset deflation. i disagree that gold is a commodity. it's industrial uses are quite small. looked what happened a few weeks ago when the markets started crashing and everyone rushed into gold. gold is money. and for those who are still pushing their 30 year charts, show me a chart of gold vs paper money for the last 5000 years... oh that is right all that paper has become worthless. no way in hell these governments will allow deflation. they are going to destroy their currencies.

[BuckarooBanzai]

gold is money.

Money - A legally or socially binding conceptual contract of entitlement to wealth, void of intrinsic value.

[farang000999]

gold is money.

Money - A legally or socially binding conceptual contract of entitlement to wealth, void of intrinsic value.

You meant fiat paper, not money/gold. ¹

^{1 The Last 5000 years.}

[Naam]

Well I asked before what you owned besides gold since you mentioned only 5-10% should be allocated there. Right now the situation is that we will have either monetary inflation or asset deflation. i disagree that gold is a commodity. it's industrial uses are quite small. looked what happened a few weeks ago when the markets started crashing and everyone rushed into gold. gold is money. and for those who are still pushing their 30 year charts, show me a chart of gold vs paper money for the last 5000 years... oh that is right all that paper has become worthless. no way in hell these governments will allow deflation. they are going to destroy their currencies.

there is paper money and there is investment generating the paper money we spend daily to cover our living expenses (if we don't have a job earning money with whatever skills we possess). i am not interested how gold performed during the last 5000 years and neither am i interested how gold might perform in the 5000 years to come.

to judge the performance of gold i use the time period which is relevant for me but not necessarily for others. that period starts in 1978, when after having worked three years in the desert, i managed to have relatively substantial savings and it ends with 1989 when i retired and concentrated on my investment.

if during afore-mentioned period i had listened to the gold lovers and bought gold instead of raking in double digit interest in various currencies by investing in British Gilts, U.S. Treasuries, German Bunds and fancy² yielding sovereign bonds of emerging countries... no freaking way retiring at age 46!

in these (for me) important 11 years the appreciation of gold hardly covered the inflation rate, no matter what country one selects. gold went from $165 to $400/ounce. if i add another year, starting "my" period end of 1979 when an ounce was $500; twenty years later in 1999 an ounce was less than $300.

even a slightly above average intelligent German Shepherd or Dachshund will realise that in these twenty long years gold produced nothing but a loss.

whether we agree or disagree on "gold = commodity" is irrelevant. my definition of commodity is "a tangible product who's value fluctuates based on offer and demand". nobody can deny that the price of gold is based on offer and demand and that its price fluctuates.

[Naam]

gold is money.

Money - A legally or socially binding conceptual contract of entitlement to wealth, void of intrinsic value.

You meant fiat paper, not money/gold. ¹

^{1 The Last 5000 years.}

Farang,

please tell us how many houses, condos, land, cars, yachts you bought with gold during the last 5000 years. does your wife buy steaks, potatoes and vegetables with gold? when you fly do you pay for the ticket with Krüger Rands, Guineas or Eagles? do you scrape off some flakes from a gold bar to pay for the beer in your favourite pub? and last not least... did you buy your gold with fiat paper or did you mine it yourself?

waiting patiently to hear your answers.

[midas]

gold is money.

Money - A legally or socially binding conceptual contract of entitlement to wealth, void of intrinsic value.

backed by nothing but faith in the " integrity " of the

signature on a piece of paper

Edited September 21, 2011 by midas

[flying]

backed by nothing but faith in the " integrity " of the

Ah but there was a time

Be sure to click & read the print.

Now that was MONEY :lol:

Edited September 21, 2011 by flying

[farang000999]

naam i haven't been telling people to buy gold for the last 30 years. the time when you want to own gold is at the end of the fiat cycle. fiat money always fails and it is always recreated. it will fail again. that is why you want gold. there will be a window where you will want to jump from gold to land/commodities.. that is when we are transitioning to the new fiat system... you don't need to own gold for the entire 80 yr cycle you just need to own it at the right times. gold is essentially an insurance on the collapse of fiat paper.

so just as germany tricked its people into thinking that the money was now backed by land, our current leaders will come up with some solution but before they do gold will realize it's true value as everyone's pensions and social security gets wiped out.

Edited September 21, 2011 by farang000999

[Naam]

gold is money.

Money - A legally or socially binding conceptual contract of entitlement to wealth, void of intrinsic value.

backed by nothing but faith in the " integrity " of the

signature on a piece of paper

as long as there is faith enough in it to put food on the table and pay for all other expenses i am "faithful"

[Naam]

naam i haven't been telling people to buy gold for the last 30 years. the time when you want to own gold is at the end of the fiat cycle. fiat money always fails and it is always recreated. it will fail again. that is why you want gold. there will be a window where you will want to jump from gold to land/commodities.. that is when we are transitioning to the new fiat system... you don't need to own gold for the entire 80 yr cycle you just need to own it at the right times. gold is essentially an insurance on the collapse of fiat paper.

so just as germany tricked its people into thinking that the money was now backed by land, our current leaders will come up with some solution but before they do gold will realize it's true value as everyone's pensions and social security gets wiped out.

you did not answer my questions Farang. and here is my rebuttal to your negative remarks on "paper gold". ah sez: anybody who is able to store and/or transport his physical gold holdings in a 100% safe way from point A to point B especially from one country to another is........ a poor man not a wealthy man.

joke aside, i have been since quite some time discussing with my good friend Flying (who acts sometimes as my gold adviser) the problems of storing/handling physical gold. besides the jokes we made in this forum we also have been exchanging views privately on a serious note but could not reach a feasible and foolproof conclusion.

[flying]

you don't need to own gold for the entire 80 yr cycle you just need to own it at the right times. gold is essentially an insurance on the collapse of fiat paper.

joke aside, i have been since quite some time discussing with my good friend Flying (who acts sometimes as my gold adviser) the problems of storing/handling physical gold. besides the jokes we made in this forum we also have been exchanging views privately on a serious note but could not reach a feasible and foolproof conclusion.

Tis true farang..........Dont let Naam's be here now logical opinions fool you.

Naam is very good at what he does. He has the tools/intelligence to move when others do not.

While many like myself deal only in physical. Herr Naam is one of the few that seems to move

quite effortlessly at proper strike times &has the ability to accurately assess situations in both venues.

I should be so lucky/astute

Edited September 21, 2011 by flying

[Naam]

Herr Naam is one of the few that seems to move quite effortlessly at proper strike times &has the ability to accurately assess situations in both venues.

yeah right! you seem to know only some of his proper strike times because it seems Herr Naam never told you how often he has touched an investment which not seemed but actually turned out to be yuck.

[flying]

Herr Naam is one of the few that seems to move quite effortlessly at proper strike times &has the ability to accurately assess situations in both venues.

yeah right! you seem to know only some of his proper strike times because it seems Herr Naam never told you how often he has touched an investment which not seemed but actually turned out to be yuck.

Yes but like I once told a business owner when he asked me what do I think the main difference is between a successful company & an unsuccessful one...

I answered the successful one made more right decisions than wrong ones.

[ExpatJ]

you don't need to own gold for the entire 80 yr cycle you just need to own it at the right times. gold is essentially an insurance on the collapse of fiat paper.

joke aside, i have been since quite some time discussing with my good friend Flying (who acts sometimes as my gold adviser) the problems of storing/handling physical gold. besides the jokes we made in this forum we also have been exchanging views privately on a serious note but could not reach a feasible and foolproof conclusion.

Tis true farang..........Dont let Naam's be here now logical opinions fool you.

Naam is very good at what he does. He has the tools/intelligence to move when others do not.

While many like myself deal only in physical. Herr Naam is one of the few that seems to move

quite effortlessly at proper strike times &has the ability to accurately assess situations in both venues.

I should be so lucky/astute

Naam's not the only one- most of my gold investment is in paper gold. As naam said earlier with larger sums of money invested in the metal it becomes unrealistic to be able to store large quantities of gold safely and in a way that you can take it across borders when you move countries. In the mean time, my paper gold mirrors the gold price plus pays me a 6% dividend per year and its very convenient to manage.

I hate to sound like i'm sitting here with a tin foil hat on, but I have some gold bars for potential use during a break down in society (localised or globally) which should be enough to bribe police/army to get me and my family on a plane or a boat during the first few days. (Of course months/years after a break down in society, gold will be worthless- cigarettes, tin food etc will be more valuable than gold bars at that stage)

Edited September 21, 2011 by ExpatJ

[midas]

you don't need to own gold for the entire 80 yr cycle you just need to own it at the right times. gold is essentially an insurance on the collapse of fiat paper.

joke aside, i have been since quite some time discussing with my good friend Flying (who acts sometimes as my gold adviser) the problems of storing/handling physical gold. besides the jokes we made in this forum we also have been exchanging views privately on a serious note but could not reach a feasible and foolproof conclusion.

Tis true farang..........Dont let Naam's be here now logical opinions fool you.

Naam is very good at what he does. He has the tools/intelligence to move when others do not.

While many like myself deal only in physical. Herr Naam is one of the few that seems to move

quite effortlessly at proper strike times &has the ability to accurately assess situations in both venues.

I should be so lucky/astute

Naam's not the only one- most of my gold investment is in paper gold. As naam said earlier with larger sums of money invested in the metal it becomes unrealistic to be able to store large quantities of gold safely and in a way that you can take it across borders when you move countries. In the mean time, my paper gold mirrors the gold price plus pays me a 6% dividend per year and its very convenient to manage.

I hate to sound like i'm sitting here with a tin foil hat on, but I have some gold bars for potential use during a break down in society (localised or globally) which should be enough to bribe police/army to get me and my family on a plane or a boat during the first few days. (Of course months/years after a break down in society, gold will be worthless- cigarettes, tin food etc will be more valuable than gold bars at that stage)

Well I have got lots of rice but I wouldn't give you any for cigarettes

maybe for some food to eat with the rice depending what it is...And I definitely wouldn't be interested in swapping my rice

for any of those carpets that Naam bought

Edited September 21, 2011 by midas

[midas]

gold is money.

Money - A legally or socially binding conceptual contract of entitlement to wealth, void of intrinsic value.

backed by nothing but faith in the " integrity " of the

signature on a piece of paper

as long as there is faith enough in it to put food on the table and pay for all other expenses i am "faithful"

yes Naam but you believe in magic carpets as well

[Naam]

when will you add again something of substance to the discussion Midas?