Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[mania]

Pricking the presumptuousness of gold bugs who think they own a thread about gold is useful enough.

Fascinating hobby you have there

BTW: Fixed your spelling for you

Hope that wasn't presumptuous of me but I was looking for something useful to do.

[edgarfriendly]

tweedle dumber

Is that me?

Ha!!

I thought he was on about cloudhopper for some reason, maybe just the double barrelled name..

It speaks volumes that you're aware of how you come across.

Have you really nothing better you could be doing?

Pricking the presumptiousness of gold bugs who think they own a thread about gold is useful enough.

It is presumptuous to claim that you are pricking anything at all or in fact that the gold bugs are indeed gold bugs OR that these presumed gold bugs presume to own a thread or not.

I bet you are really likeable offline...

[binjalin]

anyway ladies... let's cut through the 'noise' time to buy back? or more tanking to come in next few weeks?

This guy uses lots of graphs and charts to explain why he thinks gold is in a bubble except he believes the bubble is only starting now

If you don't want to watch the whole thing is worth skipping along to the end at about 28 min to see to see where the price of gold is now on the bubble graph

!

mania phase 'about to begin'? so it's time to buy and get out then

[manarak]

by the way, reading its annual report causes the blood boil of any German taxpayer!

which, thankfully, we are not !!

[Jayman]

'The court of auditors has now demanded regular audits of Germany’s foreign gold reserves. The last audits from New York were from 1979/1980. The Bundesbank has since been let into the vault, but not allowed to open the boxes in which the bars are stored, something that has obviously stokes suspicions.'

http://ftalphaville...._medium=twitter

There has been quite a bit of "german gold" talk in the news lately.

http://www.mmnews.de...es-gold-control (english)

http://www.welt.de/f...ause-holen.html (german)

http://www.spiegel.d...f-a-862719.html (german)

http://www.zerohedge...n-gold-holdings (english)

The German court of auditors (Bundesrechnungshof) has demanded that the Bundesbank undertake an audit of its gold reserves. In an 'audit-the-fed' style effort, the court wants to ensure that the nearly 3400 tons of gold is in fact in existence - 'because stocks have never been checked for authenticity and weight'. Furthermore, the Bundesbank's gold is stored in three other vaults around the world: The Bank of England, The Bank of France, and the US Federal Reserve. The court questions the practice of relying on a written confirmation from the custodians (foreign central banks). The decision means negotiating with the three foreign central banks for physical verification but in anticipation, theBundesbank has begun the process of shipping 50 tons per year from the Fed back to Germany for the next three years.

If that report is true, it sounds like Germany has already started the process of repatriating it's gold reserves. They are claiming 50 tons per year for 3 years which at 1700usd an oz is 7,437,500,000 usd worth of gold.

Personally, I have not been following this much as I think it's the same story that was being talked about before. The idea of "auditing" a countries gold reserves does seem to becoming much more popular with the masses.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Jayman

[Jayman]

And Iran is in a tight spot with all the US sanctions...

Word is that nearly 2 Billion in gold is being hand carried into the country from Istanbul.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/23/us-emirates-iran-gold-idUSBRE89M0SW20121023

Couriers carrying millions of dollars worth of gold bullion in their luggage have been flying from Istanbul to Dubai, where the gold is shipped on to Iran, according to industry sources with knowledge of the business.

The sums involved are enormous. Official Turkish trade data suggests nearly $2 billion worth of gold was sent to Dubai on behalf of Iranian buyers in August. The shipments help Tehran manage its finances in the face of Western financial sanctions.

The sanctions, imposed over Iran's disputed nuclear program, have largely frozen it out of the global banking system, making it hard for it to conduct international money transfers. By using physical gold, Iran can continue to move its wealth across borders.

[yoshiwara]

Pricking the presumptuousness of gold bugs who think they own a thread about gold is useful enough.

Fascinating hobby you have there

BTW: Fixed your spelling for you

Hope that wasn't presumptuous of me but I was looking for something useful to do.

You are correct on the spelling. Keep up the good work

It is presumptuous to claim that you are pricking anything at all or in fact that the gold bugs are indeed gold bugs OR that these presumed gold bugs presume to own a thread or not.

I bet you are really likeable offline...

Another bet you would probably lose ...........

[Jayman]

I got my hand on the German auditors report. Unfortunately I don't understand German.

I've forwarded it to a german friend of mine in hopes to get an understanding of what is being said. Maybe a helpful TVF member can fill us in on the details.

I can't seem to upload the pdf here so I uploaded it to google drive...

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxS4UvnfgGIMZmlrcHR3VmlmMzA

Then there's this

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-23/bundesbank-disagrees-with-audit-court-s-view-on-gold-reserves.html

Bundesbank Disagrees With Audit Court’s View on Gold Reserves

[Naam]

I got my hand on the German auditors report. Unfortunately I don't understand German.

I've forwarded it to a german friend of mine in hopes to get an understanding of what is being said. Maybe a helpful TVF member can fill us in on the details.

I can't seem to upload the pdf here so I uploaded it to google drive...

https://docs.google....ZmlrcHR3VmlmMzA

Then there's this

http://www.bloomberg...d-reserves.html

Bundesbank Disagrees With Audit Court’s View on Gold Reserves

it citicises in 4 pages that the German gold reserves are stored abroad, are not audited, but mainly that the Bundesbank has submitted a report to the Bundesrechnungshof in which parts are "blacked out" thus rendering the report...

Edited October 24, 2012 by Naam

[jingjoe8]

if helicopter ben resigns after the us elections,will this have any affect on gold prices??

,especially if romney gets in,i would assume QE3 would disappear any thoughts on the short term price of gold under these circumstances

[cheeryble]

I've forwarded it to a german friend of mine in hopes to get an understanding of what is being said. ]

Did your friend grimace?

My mum told me never to ask friends to translate German financial documents, especially about gold.

Call him now and say Naam already did it....

[cloudhopper]

if helicopter ben resigns after the us elections,will this have any affect on gold prices??

,especially if romney gets in,i would assume QE3 would disappear any thoughts on the short term price of gold under these circumstances

'if helicopter ben resigns after the us elections'- very unlikely but depends entirely on which Goldman exec replaces him and why.

'if romney gets in'- very unlikely but gold price will drop (just not as fast as other financial assets) if he does as promised and declares China a currency manipulator and a trade war ensues. Unless he attacks Iran then it will soar.

'i would assume QE3 would disappear'- I wouldn't and if it's not drastically increased it will be overwhelmed by defaulting debt and the price of gold will drop (just not as fast as other financial assets), but if QE^∞ to the point of a currency collapse it will be priceless.

[Naam]

if helicopter ben resigns after the us elections,will this have any affect on gold prices??

,especially if romney gets in,i would assume QE3 would disappear any thoughts on the short term price of gold under these circumstances

off topic

Romney complained the navy had fewer ships,

Obama said: "You mentioned the navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well, governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets, because the nature of our military's changed. We have these things called aircraft carriers, where planes land on them. We have these ships that go underwater, nuclear submarines."

[cloudhopper]

This one might be of interest to US expats -

[yoshiwara]

if helicopter ben resigns after the us elections,will this have any affect on gold prices??

,especially if romney gets in,i would assume QE3 would disappear any thoughts on the short term price of gold under these circumstances

Since BB has announced he will not be running for a 3rd term, the re-appointment has been taken out of the electoral arena. However, a resignation post-Romney victory would be bad news as it would signal the retreat of central bank independence from govt interference. Your assumption is a poor one, but if a Romney admin directed no new monetary intervention to be considered in addition to forcing BB out, then the markets would be roiled and gold dives with the rest. The trade therefore is that if I am considering a Romney victory then hedging against a gold drop is a call.

Edited October 24, 2012 by yoshiwara

[falkan]

Buy: ฿24850

Sell: ฿24950

Last Update: 2012-10-24 11:35

Price Change: -150

฿22000-23000 in 2-3 months and am buying back:)

[Jayman]

if helicopter ben resigns after the us elections,will this have any affect on gold prices??

,especially if romney gets in,i would assume QE3 would disappear any thoughts on the short term price of gold under these circumstances

Since BB has announced he will not be running for a 3rd term, the re-appointment has been taken out of the electoral arena. However, a resignation post-Romney victory would be bad news as it would signal the retreat of central bank independence from govt interference. Your assumption is a poor one, but if a Romney admin directed no new monetary intervention to be considered in addition to forcing BB out, then the markets would be roiled and gold dives with the rest. The trade therefore is that if I am considering a Romney victory then hedging against a gold drop is a call.

this is not an elected position. No "running" for this position is required. His 2nd term expires in 2014 and there is talk he won't accept the offer to stay for a 3rd term if asked to do so. Of course this is all speculation and here-say at this point.

http://www.reuters.c...E89M0IS20121023

What is more definite but still not 100% is that Tim has announced he will leave at the end of the year.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has already made it clear he wants to leave by the end of the year

Edited October 24, 2012 by Jayman

[jacnl2000]

As a Dutch citizen I'm not quite familiar with the German gold reserve and still wondering whether Dutch gold bar number 190 has already been found and returned yet...

[Jayman]

As a Dutch citizen I'm not quite familiar with the German gold reserve and still wondering whether Dutch gold bar number 190 has already been found and returned yet...

Let me check my inventory and get back to you.

[jacnl2000]

As a Dutch citizen I'm not quite familiar with the German gold reserve and still wondering whether Dutch gold bar number 190 has already been found and returned yet...

Let me check my inventory and get back to you.

In this case I appreciate your sense of humor.

Btw. I was not the one and also not the Germans who started this joke.

No, it was a television camera of the Dutch state television (NOS journal) catching the old president of the Dutch DNB in the act of counting gold bars himself:

For some people this may be one of those pictures worth a thousands words. Here Wellink displayed a remarkable sense of humor in front of a television camera.

[midas]

Trust me I am a politician

Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble and others maintain that there is no reason to worry.

http://www.google.co...4c64fba6fc365a2

meanwhile...........

Associated Press report appended here, the German gold audit story has just exploded into the English-language press with some important revelations

-- The gold vaulted by the German central bank, the Bundesbank, with the Bank of England "has fallen 'below 500 tons' due to recent sales and repatriations. ..." So despite the lack of official announcement, Germany lately has been selling gold from London -- perhaps as part of the secret "strategic activities" grudgingly acknowledged two years ago by the Bundesbank to GATA's friend, the German financial journalist Lars Schall

Edited October 24, 2012 by midas

[midas]

"I currently have no doubt about the stock and the storage of the gold reserves," said Priska Hinz, the opposition Greens top lawmaker on the budget committee. "I do not doubt the reliability of the foreign central banks," she told the AP.

[cheeryble]

"I currently have no doubt about the stock and the storage of the gold reserves," said Priska Hinz, the opposition Greens top lawmaker on the budget committee. "I do not doubt the reliability of the foreign central banks," she told the AP.

Another sucker fooled by the laser image projection equipment developed by Nazi rocket scientists under the Antarctic as a break from their flying saucer work.......

Edited October 24, 2012 by cheeryble

[Jayman]

I know this post will bring on many cynical comments but I tend to agree that the paper gold market is rigged to the downside. That is why I will only short on the paper market but I buy physical gold on any gold weakness.

http://www.marketwat...24?pagenumber=1

China knows that gold is rigged

It is an open secret among precious metals analysts and traders that the gold and silver markets are being heavily manipulated, mostly to the downside; i.e. their prices are being suppressed by various Western financial entities in what should be a scandal much bigger than the Libor rigging scheme.

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Not only did a senior commissioner at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), Bart Chilton, reiterate recently his original statements from 26th October 2010 that "there have been fraudulent efforts to persuade and deviously control the price of silver" adding this time that " there have also been silver and gold market anomalies outside of the [current] silver investigation" , but we have also heard similar comments from former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts: "I suspect that the Federal Reserve is manipulating the gold and silver markets in order to prevent its low interest rate policy from undermining the value of the US dollar. It is easy to offset rising prices of bullion due to physical demand by selling shorts in the paper market.”

And then, of course, there is the famous, albeit much older, remark from the maestro Alan Greenspan himself, in his July 24, 1998 testimony to the Committee of Banking and Financial Services, U.S. House of Representatives that: "Central banks stand ready to lease gold in increasing quantities should the price rise".

Edited October 24, 2012 by Jayman

[yoshiwara]

Sure, and the Chinese entered the market so decisively these last few days that gold completely tanked.

[Jayman]

More press on the German gold story

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9631962/Bundesbank-slashed-London-gold-holdings-in-mystery-move.html

Bundesbank slashed London gold holdings in mystery move

Germany withdrew two thirds of its vast holdings of gold from Bank of England vaults shortly after the launch of the euro more than a decade ago, according to a confidential report by German auditors.

[Naam]

Bundesbank gold details:

http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article110220855/Bundesbank-lueftet-Geheimnis-um-Goldschatz.html

use Google translate.

[Jayman]

Bundesbank gold details:

http://www.welt.de/f...Goldschatz.html

use Google translate.

is such a nice image. Wish I could open my closet and see that.

[Naam]

Bundesbank gold details:

http://www.welt.de/f...Goldschatz.html

use Google translate.

is such a nice image. Wish I could open my closet and see that.

how come we both agree on something 100%... once in a while? i'm sure our wives have similar wishes

[jacnl2000]

Bundesbank gold details:

http://www.welt.de/f...Goldschatz.html

use Google translate.

is such a nice image. Wish I could open my closet and see that.

how come we both agree on something 100%... once in a while? i'm sure our wives have similar wishes

In my mind such an image triggers a rather old and questionable statement "the higher the walls the saver the gold".