Where Is Gold Going In This Market

[Penefattore]

I found it :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Bunker_Hunt

Silver ThursdayBeginning in the early 1970s, Hunt and his brother William Herbert Hunt began accumulating large amounts of silver. By 1979, they had nearly cornered the global market.^[6] In the last nine months of 1979, the brothers earned an estimated $2 billion to $4 billion in silver speculation, with estimated silver holdings of 100 million ounces.^[7]

During the Hunt brothers' accumulation of the precious metal, prices of silver futures contracts and silver bullion during 1979 and 1980 silver prices rose from $11 an ounce in September 1979 to $50 an ounce in January 1980. Silver prices ultimately collapsed to below $11 an ounce two months later. The largest single day drop in the price of silver occurred on Silver Thursday.^[1]

Hunt filed for bankruptcy under Chapter 11 of the Federal Bankruptcy Code in September 1988, largely due to lawsuits incurred as a result of his silver speculation.^[1]

In 1989 in a settlement with the United States Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Nelson Bunker Hunt was fined US$10 million and banned from trading in the commodity markets as a result of charges of conspiring to manipulate the silver market stemming from his attempt to corner the market in silver.^[1] This fine was in addition to a multimillion-dollar settlement to pay back taxes, fines and interest to the Internal Revenue Service for the same period.^[1]

[Penefattore]

the simple explanation is: Gold has NO intrinsic value (as the goldbugs claim). actually nothing exists which has intrinsic value if there is no demand. stranded on an uninhabitated island the demand for Gold is ZERO. on this island the art of hunting and fishing as well as the knowledge of a source with drinkable water is a zillion times superior in intrinsic values than tons of Gold

because you don't have any?? its the best conductor, and it will keep going up and down, and steadily up

Actually silver is the best conductor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver

it has the highest electrical conductivity of any element and the highest thermal conductivity of any metal

and it's about 60 times cheaper than gold.

[Penefattore]

all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward.

i said STEP FORWARD!

why is nobody stepping forward?

They are too young Naam

[Penefattore]

And a share certificate or a wad of notes would be useful on an uninhabited island to wipe your arse with.

It's not this the point.

Gold lovers state that gold has an intrinsic value.

Naam states it hasn't, that it's just a value given by demand for futile needs like showing off status.

Therefore gold is no different from a paper currency. It's value is attributed by social convention , it's not intrinsic.

Those who love "intrinsic value" should buy rice, orange juice,coffe,sugar, cotton and the like , not gold.

Edited October 15, 2009 by Penefattore

[cloudhopper]

The value of gold IMO is it's utility as an internationally recognized form of currency that is not easily fiddled with by political expediencies.

[Penefattore]

The value of gold IMO is it's utility as an internationally recognized form of currency that is not easily fiddled with by political expediencies.

Indeed gold has the advantage that must be mined and cannot be printed at will.

[Penefattore]

Again for the unintelligent muppets on here - GOLD Fiat is worthless in the big scheme of things.

Fixed it for you

Sounds just as silly doesn't it?

The world has shown in the course of history Golds worth & they show their decision over & over again.

The same cannot be said for Fiat all of which have failed at some point in history.

True, true, just take silver for example. Until America's discovery a gold oz was worth 16 silver , after that it started a painful devaluation to the current over 60 ratio (top was 153).

Ooops wasn't silver an intrinsic currency like gold ? So might it be that being bullion does not guarantee against devaluation ? What do you think would happen to gold price if a lot of new mines were discovered like happened in the past with silver ?

http://goldinfo.net/silver600.html

[britmaveric]

^the price would plummet unless you control the supply. Prob be handled like De Beers and the diamond trade.

[churchill]

All us street kids should thank Churchill for pointing out the possibility almost exactly a year ago 10-17-08 at the start of this thread.

Thanks Churchill

Thanks Flying - Having been a long term bull I thought it was due for a correction and sold at 950 - Mistake !

However perhaps now it has gone too far too fast - I am still a bull but do not believe this is the time and perhaps a correction is due -

Sterling up today on a few comments - short covering

Could we see the same for the $ in the short term a rise on short covering .

Gold and gold shares down today even though a weak $

Harrods selling gold !

http://www.retail-week.com/retail-sectors/...5007171.article

[britmaveric]

Gold will burst at some point - it will be painful.

[Naam]

And a share certificate or a wad of notes would be useful on an uninhabited island to wipe your arse with.

It's not this the point.

Gold lovers state that gold has an intrinsic value. Naam states it hasn't, that it's just a value given by demand for futile needs like showing off status. Therefore gold is no different from a paper currency. It's value is attributed by social convention , it's not intrinsic. Those who love "intrinsic value" should buy rice, orange juice,coffe,sugar, cotton and the like , not gold.

a logical conclusion. but one can't expect logic from goldbugs. the postings here and in other forums are evidence for my claim it's not only lack of logic but a complete denial of facts or in the case of the "uninhabitated island" irrelevant statements desperately trying to divert from the subject such as "wad of notes to wipe the àss" or "you don't like gold because you don't have any?" and best of all "conductivity of gold" in context with the quoted island.

normally it ends with a broad grin on my face or shaking my head in disbelief... till the next prophet arises from the ashes and shouts "bakeries will be bought for a single cold coin!" and i am having some fun.

[Naam]

all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward.

i said STEP FORWARD!

why is nobody stepping forward?

They are too young Naam

yep, and they all bought gold only several years ago when it traded between 300 and 400

[Naam]

all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward.

i said STEP FORWARD!

why is nobody stepping forward?

How many people have gone broke investing in gold over a considerable amount of time ?

I remember in the early 80's the heirs of a billionaire went broke speculating (with leverage) on silver.

Can't recall the names and the facts, but I think this long term silver chart explains what happened by itself

http://www.futuresbuzz.com/silverlt.html

it was the Hunt brothers from Texas with a Saudi Prince as a partner. they nearly managed to corner the global silver market but (alleged engineered) margin calls broke their back.

[gregb]

all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward.

i said STEP FORWARD!

why is nobody stepping forward?

I'll step forward as a proxy for any banker before 1971 (when Brenton Woods fell apart).

Gold is a currency, and lots of people make money trading currencies. The fact that it was a weak currency in the 80's and 90's does nothing to change the fact that it could be a very strong currency for the next several decades.

Is your next question going to be how many people have made a living based on investing in USD over a considerable period of time? Or the Mexican peso? There are hundreds to choose from. Why pick on XAU?

Again, any fiat currency strength is based on the underlying industrial economy. The global industrial economy is entering what will prove to be a centuries long contraction. What you knew for the last 100 years is going to do very little for you in the next 100. As such, I maintain gold is the currency to be in for the next several generations, or until someone can demonstrate that energy crisis has truly and completely been resolved. I don't mean faith based "someone will come up with something." Show me a country that has actually built ALL the infrastructure necessary to commercialize any alternative energy technology and completely remove dependence on fossil fuels. Then, I'll be the first one to dump the yellow rock in favour of something based on an industrial economic engine.

[flying]

Thanks Flying - Having been a long term bull I thought it was due for a correction and sold at 950 - Mistake !

However perhaps now it has gone too far too fast - I am still a bull but do not believe this is the time and perhaps a correction is due -

Sterling up today on a few comments - short covering

Could we see the same for the $ in the short term a rise on short covering .

Gold and gold shares down today even though a weak $

Harrods selling gold !

http://www.retail-week.com/retail-sectors/...5007171.article

I agree churchill & thought maybe to get into trading mid Nov

I am not a seller of physical so may do the miners in late Nov if things look right.

For me physical has no reason to trade out of ...Or I should say the economy & gov here has shown no reason not to hold physical.

[flying]

Gold will burst at some point - it will be painful.

And???

Your the king of one liners I will give you that.

But you never have any substance.

What is propelling gold? Has the cause been repaired? Or gotten worse?

Edited October 15, 2009 by flying

[britmaveric]

Well one liners are normally better than the usual page of rubbish posted.

[flying]

Well one liners are normally better than the usual page of rubbish posted.

If that is all you got then I rest my case.

But realize this fact...Gold has never gone bust....Ever

Can the same be said for Fiat currencies?

"The history of fiat money is little more than a register of monetary follies and inflations. Our present age merely affords another entry in this dismal register."

Hans F. Sennholz

Edited October 15, 2009 by flying

[flying]

What do you think would happen to gold price if a lot of new mines were discovered like happened in the past with silver ?

That is actually the correct way to increase the money.

ie: they have to work to create it

Not just punch a few keys on the FED keyboard & create billions.

Their way money starts as debt.

"If you don't trust gold, do you trust the logic of taking a beautiful pine tree, worth about $4,000 - $5,000, cutting it up, turning it into pulp and then paper, putting some ink on it and then calling it one billion dollars?"

Kenneth J. Gerbino

Edited October 15, 2009 by flying

[jazzbo]

... taking a beautiful pine tree, worth about $4,000 - $5,000, cutting it up, turning it into pulp and then paper...

Mr. Gerbino is obviously well-informed; USA currency is printed on a combination of cotton and linen with no wood pulp involved. (just a 3AM drive-by for me)

[flying]

Mr. Gerbino is obviously well-informed; USA currency is printed on a combination of cotton and linen with no wood pulp involved. (just a 3AM drive-by for me)

I see........& what is the cost of said cotton & linen?

It was a simple analogy no?

[jazzbo]

It was a misstatement of fact.

[flying]

It was a misstatement of fact.

Take it up with Kenneth J. Gerbino

Paper or cotton you still miss the forest for the trees

[jazzbo]

No it was Mr. Gerbino who missed the trees... and it was not a fact extraneous to his area of expertise. What other facts might Mr.G., or yourself for that matter, be lose with? ... and I know all about gold: I watched and read The Treasure of the Sierra Madre. Tag, you're it.

[flying]

No it was Mr. Gerbino who missed the trees... and it was not a fact extraneous to his area of expertise. What other facts might Mr.G., or yourself for that matter, be lose with? ... and I know all about gold: I watched and read The Treasure of the Sierra Madre. Tag, you're it.

A fan of minutia?

As much as I enjoy it perhaps we will stay O.T instead?

It was a quote/simple analogy that most would have understood

[Naam]

all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward.

i said STEP FORWARD!

why is nobody stepping forward?

Is your next question going to be how many people have made a living based on investing in USD over a considerable period of time? Or the Mexican peso? There are hundreds to choose from. Why pick on XAU?

because this thread is about XAU and my question was directly related to another question "How many people have gone broke investing in gold over a considerable amount of time ?"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Gold-Market-...77#entry3076677

your posting is an "exemple par excellence" and proves what i wrote yesterday about goldbug irrelevance, dodging and trying to divert from the discussed topic.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Gold-Market-...84#entry3077584

next!

[sokal]

all those who made a living based on investing in gold over a considerable period of time (e.g. for the last three decades) step forward.

i said STEP FORWARD!

why is nobody stepping forward?

How many people have gone broke investing in gold over a considerable amount of time ?

Why does every financial forum I go to have a gold thread that never seems to go away ?

nobody has gone broke investing in gold PROVIDED he/she had sufficient other income to pay for living expenses. a more important question is "how many people made a living by investing in gold over an extended period of time?"

gold threads in financial forums are quite normal. this world has a lot of dreamers who hope to win the jackpot in the lottery. of course that does not apply to only to gold but a variety of other assets too.

Nobody has gone broke investing in stocks provided they had sufficient other income to pay for living expenses. Your question is loopy because you still don't understand what role gold plays in the capital markets. You could make a living buying and selling futures, mining stock dividends and trading.

[sokal]

And a share certificate or a wad of notes would be useful on an uninhabited island to wipe your arse with.

It's not this the point.

Gold lovers state that gold has an intrinsic value.

Naam states it hasn't, that it's just a value given by demand for futile needs like showing off status.

Therefore gold is no different from a paper currency. It's value is attributed by social convention , it's not intrinsic.

Those who love "intrinsic value" should buy rice, orange juice,coffe,sugar, cotton and the like , not gold.

Well you better start trying to convince all the central banks around the world to hold rice, orange juice, coffee, sugar and the like , not gold. Good luck.

[sokal]

Again for the unintelligent muppets on here - GOLD Fiat is worthless in the big scheme of things.

Fixed it for you

Sounds just as silly doesn't it?

The world has shown in the course of history Golds worth & they show their decision over & over again.

The same cannot be said for Fiat all of which have failed at some point in history.

True, true, just take silver for example. Until America's discovery a gold oz was worth 16 silver , after that it started a painful devaluation to the current over 60 ratio (top was 153).

Ooops wasn't silver an intrinsic currency like gold ? So might it be that being bullion does not guarantee against devaluation ? What do you think would happen to gold price if a lot of new mines were discovered like happened in the past with silver ?

http://goldinfo.net/silver600.html

So you have grasped the market principle that an increase in the number of a currency units in circulation will decrease the currencies value. (Gold is a currency) Do I need to explain the chart or can you figure it out ?

[jazzbo]

Mr. Gerbino's misstatement of fact wasn't an even analogy if you care to use that word correctly... and it seems that, to stay on topic, that gold bugs might often be loose with for misstate facts like that gold bug Mr. G.L. Liddy you see on FOX.