Home Grown Debts

[The Gentleman Scamp]

I'm sorry, but I do have morals and I am, if anything, too honest as I've been told many a time - but I fail to understand why Ravisher is getting pounded for making what is a very valid point indeed - there is no black & white with this subject, if there was then I wouldn't have needed to start it.

The law is not always right and moralists bore the shit out of me, sorry.

Several years ago, a virtual stranger who was a nieve 19yr old, lent me 3,000 pounds - not because I asked him but because he believed in me.

Because I am a decent man who appreciates acts of good will and kindness, I paid him back in full and took him and his girlfriend out for a beer as a thankyou.

Several weeks ago, when I was hungry and skint in Phuket, and owing 5,000bht to a friend (a moderator on Thaivisa.com) and about the same for bungalow and motorbike, a Thai ex girlfriend called from Samui and when hearing of my situation was angry that I had not asked for help and transferred some money into my Phuket friend's bank account - enough to pay him back the 5 grand and enough for me to go visit her in Ko Samui.

She lent me 20,000 bht in total, enough to clear my debts and go to Bangkok to get the interview for the job in which I am now working.

Because I am a decent man who appreciates acts of good will and kindness I have since paid her back in full plus an extra 1,000 which I have insisted she spend on herself.

Both examples above were good will gestures.

Did the bank encourage me to get a credit card as a good will gesture or did they do it because being a high risker they would stand to make a profit from my debts?

The collection agency, did they take the debt of the banks hands as a good will gesture of kindness or as a potential means of making money?

Do you see my point? Do you see why it is not a black & white case?

If the law permitted debt collection agencies to break peoples legs do you think it would decline the oppertunity?

The only valid reason for paying a debt like this is to prevent bad comebacks in the future - certainly not for any moral reasons, they sure as h.ell don't have any morality - they are a business and they are no better than the time share operation I nearly got involved with in Phuket and hard to swallow or not that is a fact.

Not paying a debt collection agency may be unwise, but if you believe it is immoral then you'd probably also believe that I was unkind for saying McDonalds and Coca Cola were greedy.

[GuestHouse]

You see the world in black and white. I see it has many shades and many colors...

My bet is your own world suddenly becomes very black and white when it's your own money that is stolen.

But thanks for these insights, they are reinforcing my belief that Thailand really does attract so many of what I term 'the worst of the West'.

I'll need fewer remiders in the future never to make a loan to a expats I meet in Thailand.

[Flummoxed]

Guesthouse, try this little experiment with your tunnel vision...

Imagine you are doing OK financially. For whatever reason, you have a couple of credit cards, perhaps for making online purchases. One day, you are made redundant, or perhaps, you are placed on a 3 day week while you company goes through a slow patch. The circumstances are irrelevant, just assume for whatever reason you have found yourself with a surplus income of only 200 Dollars a month to buy foodstuffs.

Lets throw in a young family to the mix.

You find yourself with a credit card repayment of 180 Dollars... but you have to buy food for your kids. I'm assuming you are Human so you will prioritise your family over a credit card company. You therefore default.

So, by your definition Mr Guesthouse, you are a loser, a criminal thief... and you will ###### up in Thailand.

When you've grown up and have a more adult perspective on life and the real world, then I will take you seriously. For now, you are just a bore.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Guesthouse - I doubt you'd lend money to somebody you didn't know well anyway.

I've borrowed money off expats and paid it back because they are people, not huge corporate business incorporating thousands and thousands of dull, greedy businessmen.

Flummoxed - Well said, we'll have that steak & ale pie at some point next year and if you buy the pie, I'll get the beers in but if the pun which will be owned by a super rich brewery acidentally forgets to charge us for the onion rings - what should we do?

I honestly don't know anymore - these moralotopogologists are confusing me.

[DavidUK21]

Guesthouse, try this little experiment with your tunnel vision...

Imagine you are doing OK financially. For whatever reason, you have a couple of credit cards, perhaps for making online purchases. One day, you are made redundant, or perhaps, you are placed on a 3 day week while you company goes through a slow patch. The circumstances are irrelevant, just assume for whatever reason you have found yourself with a surplus income of only 200 Dollars a month to buy foodstuffs.

Lets throw in a young family to the mix.

You find yourself with a credit card repayment of 180 Dollars... but you have to buy food for your kids. I'm assuming you are Human so you will prioritise your family over a credit card company. You therefore default.

So, by your definition Mr Guesthouse, you are a loser, a criminal thief... and you will ###### up in Thailand.

When you've grown up and have a more adult perspective on life and the real world, then I will take you seriously. For now, you are just a bore.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The situation is hardly the same. Anybody would have symapthy with someone in that situation. Including any bank or cc company.

The fact of this matter is that he doesnt want to pay it back because he is self-centred and wants to keep his money to himself and let others pay the debt back.

A leech.

[Wolfie]

The situation is hardly the same.  Anybody would have symapthy with someone in that situation.  Including any bank or cc company.

Actually, your wrong. At least in my own personal experience...

Had a similar thing happen to me once.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You see the world in black and white. I see it has many shades and many colors...

My bet is your own world suddenly becomes very black and white when it's your own money that is stolen.

But thanks for these insights, they are reinforcing my belief that Thailand really does attract so many of what I term 'the worst of the West'.

I'll need fewer remiders in the future never to make a loan to a expats I meet in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That'd be a very wise move

[boris]

Guesthouse - I doubt you'd lend money to somebody you didn't know well anyway.

I've borrowed money off expats and paid it back because they are people, not huge corporate business incorporating thousands and thousands of dull, greedy businessmen.

:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's seemingly impossible for this kind of person to understand that businesses' owners are its shareholders and "the dull greedy businessmen" just the employees.When someone cheats a business by say reneging on a legally contracted debt , that person is directly cheating the shareholders, often people with modest incomes investing through pension funds etc.There is simply no excuse for these creeps but they live in a cartoonish self-indulgent world where they blame everone but themselves.I suspect they are just a bit thick.

[HarryHacker]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's seemingly impossible for this kind of person to understand that businesses' owners are its shareholders and "the dull greedy businessmen" just the employees.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So Boris, as a shareholder of a Money Lender using rough hand tactics to collect monies due, do you feel good about that?

As a shareholder of a Money Lender who encourages borrowing at extremely high interest rate, do you feel good about that?

[boris]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's seemingly impossible for this kind of person to understand that businesses' owners are its shareholders and "the dull greedy businessmen" just the employees.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So Boris, as a shareholder of a Money Lender using rough hand tactics to collect monies due, do you feel good about that?

As a shareholder of a Money Lender who encourages borrowing at extremely high interest rate, do you feel good about that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a good example of the cartoon world these people live in.We are not talking about the mafia here but large financial institutions usually quoted on Western stock exchanges.These outfits, nor their agents, do not come after debtors with crowbars or knives.They might seize secured assets but that is different.

[boris]

Guesthouse - I doubt you'd lend money to somebody you didn't know well anyway.

I've borrowed money off expats and paid it back because they are people, not huge corporate business incorporating thousands and thousands of dull, greedy businessmen.

:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's seemingly impossible for this kind of person to understand that businesses' owners are its shareholders and "the dull greedy businessmen" just the employees.When someone cheats a business by say reneging on a legally contracted debt , that person is directly cheating the shareholders, often people with modest incomes investing through pension funds etc.There is simply no excuse for these creeps but they live in a cartoonish self-indulgent world where they blame everone but themselves.I suspect they are just a bit thick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your suspitions are wrong! Thick has nothing to do with this at all.

How easy it is to moralise when not having lived in the other guys shoes. How easy to flaunt your integrity here, trying to convince us all that you are oh so perfect. How easy to cut one or two lines from a 9 page topic and flame it.

With your attitude, you had better pray that you are never in a diabolical situation, because you will not survive. It is a dog eat dog world out there... not, to quote yourself... the cartoonish world you live in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again.How terrible the world has treated yoy and how justified it is that you put theconventional morality of ordinary people.Smell the coffee you bozo.There are zillions of people who grew up in ghastly conditions of unimaginable poverty, not least right here in Thailand, who are fine upstanding citizens with a deep sense of right and wrong.They would never dream of the depraved morality that you and other lowlife foreigners espouse.Your pitiable self-serving whining makes the gorge rise in the throat.

[DavidUK21]

Ravisher

I am not 21, nor naive.

You are trying to justify being a thief.

If you are down and out and a thief, I would have some sympathy.

If you have money and are a thief, I would not.

That is how I see it.

[HarryHacker]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's seemingly impossible for this kind of person to understand that businesses' owners are its shareholders and "the dull greedy businessmen" just the employees.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So Boris, as a shareholder of a Money Lender using rough hand tactics to collect monies due, do you feel good about that?

As a shareholder of a Money Lender who encourages borrowing at extremely high interest rate, do you feel good about that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a good example of the cartoon world these people live in.We are not talking about the mafia here but large financial institutions usually quoted on Western stock exchanges.These outfits, nor their agents, do not come after debtors with crowbars or knives.They might seize secured assets but that is different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A good example of a cartoon world?

Humm....OK, well, as YOU use the words Mafia & Western Stock Exchanges, how about the deal struck between the Tobacco Giants selling huge amounts of cigarettes to the Mafia, the mafia then supplying the smugglers, thus Tax not finding the way to the exchequers of some European nations? Answer, these PLCs were found guilty.

This is one example of why you should not take the high moral ground supporting the actions of PLCs.

Back on topic, I guess you also know that the UK government had to bring in new laws to protect the public from the Collection Agencies who were directly and indirectly working for the PLC money lenders. I'm not sure I would be happy standing on your side of the fence.

[mowlem]

Remember, nobody "forced" Scamp to go halfway around the world, spending loads of dosh, whilst leaving debts in the UK.

HE DID THIS OF HIS OWN FREE WILL.

No wonder the cc company got annoyed with him.

We are not talking redundancy, marital problems, we are talking selfishness.

You are talking about going back to the UK, and repaying the debt, does that mean if things had worked out here, you would have simply walked away from your mess? Your contririon is only there because you have to leave the party in Thailand?

[bkk_mike]

Pay it back - it's the right thing to do...

But if you want other reasons to pay it back...

By the fact they've got your mother's address, was the card taken out at your parent's address? If so, assuming they've got the same surname as you (safe-ish bet), you're screwing with their credit rating as well.

If you pay it back, the credit card is usable again. (even if you don't use it, and just keep it for emergencies...). Just because you give them THEIR £1,600 back, doesn't mean you lose access to it. (But only for genuine emergencies unless you want to have the costs of transferring funds back to the UK regularly).

[SoCal]

Flummoxed, If you have beer money, then you have money to repay your debts. They are yours after all. No one made you make the purchases. If you do not have the money, then they will work with you. This is well known, so why don't you face it as an adult, rather than running away as a child? *Yes, I know you are speaking hypotheticly.

There are exceptions to every rule, and exceptions should be dealt with for their own peculiarities, but meeting your responsibilities should be the rule.

Agreed?

Scamp, you seem like the kind of guy that robs a bank saying that they have too much money, just use people as money lenders, etc, an find some sort of inner pride that you did not rob the old lady of her welfare check.

You know what? A thief is a thief. There can be extenuating circumstances (your grey area), but a thief is a thief none the less.

You say you will pay back, but your words at least for now speak louder than your actions.

At one point I actually felt quite sorry for you, silly of me I know. Now I see your circumstances as an exercise in Karma.

[DavidUK21]

Here we go again.How terrible the world has treated yoy and how justified it is that you put theconventional morality of ordinary people.Smell the coffee you bozo.There are zillions of people who grew up in ghastly conditions of unimaginable poverty, not least right here in Thailand, who are fine upstanding citizens with a deep sense of right and wrong.They would never dream of the depraved morality that you and other lowlife foreigners espouse.Your pitiable self-serving whining makes the gorge rise in the throat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I smelled the coffee a long time ago boris, and that is exactly WHY I am NOT one of your .."zillions of people who grew up in ghastly conditions of unimaginable poverty, who are fine upstanding citizens with a deep sense of right and wrong." AND if you were one of them you would STILL be one of them and you could hold your head up high in your Ghetto and be a fine upstading citizen. Because you would never dream of getting yourself out of that ghastly situation. Would you Bozo? Now tell me that if you were one of them you would get a job and WORK you way up to where you are now, with your fine education and all... Get a &lt;deleted&gt; GRIP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You did not work your way up. You stole money to indulge yourself at the expense of people who do work. You live a lavish lifestyle and refuse to contribute to the society that chipped in to get you out of the gutter.

[Dickie]

I was thinking of going troll in this topic but, reading the vitriol pouring like blood from an open artery, I don't think I need to.

[DavidUK21]

This is a good example of the cartoon world these people live in.We are not talking about the mafia here but large financial institutions usually quoted on Western stock exchanges.These outfits, nor their agents, do not come after debtors with crowbars or knives.They might seize secured assets but that is different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your ignorance is incredulous! How do you think these large institutions got the money in the first place? What do you think happened to the billions of dollars/pounds made by Mafia's? You think it got spent, or lost? No it got 'invested' and 'cleaned' up in large financial corporations and the like. I worked for the Italian/American Mafia in the 1960's at their casinos in Nassau and Freeport Bahamas, operated by the Cellini brother. I know how the money gets cleaned and legitimized. Before the Bahamas the Cellini's were operating 15 five star hotels with casinos in Cuba. Where do you imagine 'that' money came from. It came form Loan sharking, money lending, collectors, prostitution, bootlegging, illegal gambling etc etc etc. Invested in airlines, banking, motor corporations and 'legal' casinos, 'legal' money lending, legal collection agencies etc etc etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your ignorance is even more incredulous. Quoting other peoples wrongdoings as some sort of excuse for your theft.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There's a lot of shady buggers ensconsed in the Kingdom of Thailand.

[SoCal]

Thai Visa- never a dull moment.

[DavidUK21]

I smelled the coffee a long time ago boris, and that is exactly WHY I am NOT one of your .."zillions of people who grew up in ghastly conditions of unimaginable poverty, who are fine upstanding citizens with a deep sense of right and wrong." AND if you were one of them you would STILL be one of them and you could hold your head up high in your Ghetto and be a fine upstading citizen. Because you would never dream of getting yourself out of that ghastly situation. Would you Bozo? Now tell me that if you were one of them you would get a job and WORK you way up to where you are now, with your fine education and all... Get a &lt;deleted&gt; GRIP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You did not work your way up. You stole money to indulge yourself at the expense of people who do work. You live a lavish lifestyle and refuse to contribute to the society that chipped in to get you out of the gutter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wrong again &lt;deleted&gt;: I stole one time age 19 to 'eat' and pay rent and knocked two "collection agencies" that I never borrowed a dime from. I could not pay the bank an CC company back, as they had foolishly sold the dept for 10%.

I've dug ditches, carried the hod, bumped tiles, worked in a foundry, mixed concrete, laid concrete and laid railway track, etc etc etc... Then I started to educate myself at the age of 24 because I could not read or write very well. Then I started as a blackjack dealer and 'worked' my way up to casino manager in a highly competitive business. I now manage $1,500,000 a DAY and am trusted with that. If I wanted to steal, I could have stolen and retired years ago, knowing what I know about casinos.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not paying a debt back is theft, which makes you a thief. You have money but you still refuse to pay that debt back. I go to work and pay towards that debt, so that you can indulge yourself.

A CA buys debts in bulk from a bank. Yes, for maybe 10% of their value. It recoups far less than that. Some people cannot repay their debt, they have my deepest sympathy and I am only too happy to help. Others like yourself, have the money, but choose to not repay the debt and indulge themselves with the money, they do not get any sympathy from me.

[DavidUK21]

This is a good example of the cartoon world these people live in.We are not talking about the mafia here but large financial institutions usually quoted on Western stock exchanges.These outfits, nor their agents, do not come after debtors with crowbars or knives.They might seize secured assets but that is different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your ignorance is incredulous! How do you think these large institutions got the money in the first place? What do you think happened to the billions of dollars/pounds made by Mafia's? You think it got spent, or lost? No it got 'invested' and 'cleaned' up in large financial corporations and the like. I worked for the Italian/American Mafia in the 1960's at their casinos in Nassau and Freeport Bahamas, operated by the Cellini brother. I know how the money gets cleaned and legitimized. Before the Bahamas the Cellini's were operating 15 five star hotels with casinos in Cuba. Where do you imagine 'that' money came from. It came form Loan sharking, money lending, collectors, prostitution, bootlegging, illegal gambling etc etc etc. Invested in airlines, banking, motor corporations and 'legal' casinos, 'legal' money lending, legal collection agencies etc etc etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your ignorance is even more incredulous. Quoting other peoples wrongdoings as some sort of excuse for your theft.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tell you what, if you use National Westminster Bank or Visa Credit Card. Work out how much it cost you when the bank lost 1,800 because they sold the dept for 200 and how much it cost you for the 900 I owed Visa because they sold the dept for 100.

And I'll send you a check. That is if I can write one for .00002 of a pound, or therabouts.

Come on... help me to clear my conscience.

Failing that I will ask God to forgive me.

Because you obviously won't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not the point at all. A similar amount of my wage goes towards social security payments. Some people are needy of this. Others, like yourself, use it to indulge themselves and try and say its right because its only a small amount per person.

[DavidUK21]

Not paying a debt back is theft, which makes you a thief.  You have money but you still refuse to pay that debt back.  I go to work and pay towards that debt, so that you can indulge yourself.

A CA buys debts in bulk from a bank.  Yes, for maybe 10% of their value.  It recoups far less than that.  Some people cannot repay their debt, they have my deepest sympathy and I am only too happy to help.  Others like yourself, have the money, but choose to not repay the debt and indulge themselves with the money, they do not get any sympathy from me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who the &lt;deleted&gt; asked for your sympathy???

I just got a message back from God.

He forgives me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont forgive you.

FACT-------> I PAY YOUR DEBT BACK FOR YOU

[DavidUK21]

Pay it back - it's the right thing to do...

But if you want other reasons to pay it back...

By the fact they've got your mother's address, was the card taken out at your parent's address? If so, assuming they've got the same surname as you (safe-ish bet), you're screwing with their credit rating as well.

If you pay it back, the credit card is usable again. (even if you don't use it, and just keep it for emergencies...). Just because you give them THEIR £1,600 back, doesn't mean you lose access to it. (But only for genuine emergencies unless you want to have the costs of transferring funds back to the UK regularly).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too late! He has already blown his CC rating and cannot get another one for six years. Which will be much better for him, in his case.

He cannot pay the bank back because they were stupid and sold the debt for about £160. He now owes a ''collection agency'' that he did not borrow from.

After 6 years the same company will give him a new credit card and after 3 months he can get a Gold one. Same as I did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A CA is business like any other and needs to make a profit to survive. Not everyone is as selfish as you with only his own interests at heart. If he can afford to and pays more it will take the weight of the less needy debtors.

[DavidUK21]

Not paying a debt back is theft, which makes you a thief.  You have money but you still refuse to pay that debt back.  I go to work and pay towards that debt, so that you can indulge yourself.

A CA buys debts in bulk from a bank.  Yes, for maybe 10% of their value.  It recoups far less than that.  Some people cannot repay their debt, they have my deepest sympathy and I am only too happy to help.  Others like yourself, have the money, but choose to not repay the debt and indulge themselves with the money, they do not get any sympathy from me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who the &lt;deleted&gt; asked for your sympathy???

I just got a message back from God.

He forgives me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont forgive you.

FACT-------> I PAY YOUR DEBT BACK FOR YOU

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't forgive me? Jesus... I am really upset now...

FACT-------> at last... I know who to thank!

THANKS!

At least I can sleep easy knowing thats how you treat people who pay for your lavish lifestyle.

It was what I knew at the beginning.

You are beneath contempt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[DavidUK21]

At least I can sleep easy knowing thats how you treat people who pay for your lavish lifestyle.

It was what I knew at the beginning.

You are beneath contempt.

A thief with no more excuses.

w*nker as i called you at the beginning and would more than happily call you to your face.

[DavidUK21]

A CA is business like any other and needs to make a profit to survive.  Not everyone is as selfish as you with only his own interests at heart.  If he can afford to and pays more it will take the weight of the less needy debtors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally speaking, I don't like CA's so I hope they don't survive. Parasitic scum. Leeching off other peoples missfortunes... And if the other debtors are really in 'need' thay should not pay them back either. Offer them a quid a month as I did... and that is not thieving... they will leave you alone, because it costs more than a quid a month to collect that measly amount.

Just my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your opinion i dont agree with. You stole money to indulge yourself. You will not pay it back because you are in the midst of a process of self-aggrandisement and need to steal more money to finance it. I'll be glad when it hits the fan.

[DavidUK21]

At least I can sleep easy knowing thats how you treat people who pay for your lavish lifestyle.

It was what I knew at the beginning.

You are beneath contempt.

-------------------------------

Oh I sleep easy too... I offered to pay you back... or was it the other wus? If so, I'll make you the same offer. Now my conscience is clear.

And if you knew this all in the beginning... why'd you waste your time... ?

You could have spent it preaching to somebody who is above contempt.

I would have more than happily spent my time speaking with someone who did not steal my money to indulge themselves.

I will also try and voice my opinion to thieves who steal from me and try to say that I think its not right.

[Dickie]

I will also try and voice my opinion to thieves who steal from me and try to say that I think its not right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm a bit lost with all this toiing and fro-ing. Just to clarify: did he steal money from you?