Thaksin Guilty In Land Case, Gets 2-year Imprisonment

[animatic]

Clausewitz - sounds to me like Professor Manop is being a little naive about the situation, just because two public listed firms participated in the auction does not mean the auction was fair and transparent to them. The guy pulling the strings made certain of that, and now he's been convicted of corruption.

Sopon raises the best point here,and this is the point of the land value. The government lost out on this deal, big time. So in effect the ruling did not go far enough.

Remember the values recorded here are only the government's appraised values, which in this case fall short of true market values. At the time of the sale, developers were recording staggering sales in the area. There were several projects that recorded 1,000 + condo units being sold over a single weekend.

Esacape Clausewitz, I suggest you read Steve's particularly informed post earlier.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2287194

[animatic]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/211008_News/21Oct2008_news06.php

Land case sets a precedent for officials

State employees now have to abide by the anti-corruption law, writes Parista Yuthamanop

The thing that suprise me is that FIDF walks free. They should have disqualified Thaksin wife's bid as it is against the law. They are there to see that the bidding was fair and square. If they did not disqulified the winner, and award to Noble, FIDF should be faced with discipline charges, just like what Somchai is now facing (charged for not doing his job well in another land case 8 years ago).

Noble should file damage charges against FIDF, as they should have won the auction and make billions now. Noble should also petition that they sales to Thaksin's wife is against the law, and the land should be sold to them.

I am quite sure (no proof) that FIDF got a cut in the deal. FIDF should be brought to justice. Sound fair?

As noted in the article you PARTLY quote.

They fudge their responsability by saying it is the BIDDERS responsability to be qualified,

and not theirs to verify a bidders elegibility. Whether that is so or not I don't know.

I would think ONCE the bids are in, they have a responsability to make sure the bidder is qualified.

But that is a question of law, not logic.

Of course there is also the can't defy Thaksin thing pretty big at that time,

and this is the EXACT REASON for the law that he was convicted of...

Somchai on the other hand was TOLD by the court to act specifically, and he didn't.

So that is neglect of duty etc.

Certainly I think Noble should get lawyers on the ball on this one.

Edited October 22, 2008 by animatic

[Samuian]

I've read from posters who are not convinced about the 5-4 ruling. Take a look back into 2001 when Thaksin was acquitted in his asset's concealment case where the judges voted 8-7 in his favor, even though in 2000, the National Corruption Commission ruled 8-1 that Thaksin was guilty of hiding his assets. Furthermore, guess who's being investigated for bribing those judges in 2001 to get Thaksin off the hook? If you said Somchai Wongsawat, you are correct! Even with bribing judges back then, Thaksin was acquitted by only one vote! If one vote worked in his favor in 2001, then one vote works this time around as well. He's guilty.

Agreed, got a strong point there, is like his very karma comes to haunt him!

Hope this goes on, the whole 9 yards and Thailand will have brighter days ahead!

[Samuian]

... sounds to me like Professor Manop is being a little naive about the situation, just because two public listed firms participated in the auction does not mean the auction was fair and transparent to them. The guy pulling the strings made certain of that, and now he's been convicted of corruption.

Sopon raises the best point here,and this is the point of the land value. The government lost out on this deal, big time. So in effect the ruling did not go far enough.

.

Does anyone has a clue who the owners behind these 2 "publicly listed" firms are?

I wouldn't be amazed if they belonged to either Yaowapa, the Somchai Clan, or even listed under the name of his chauffeur or kitchen hand!

------------------------------

I cant deliver any proof of it, but maybe someone who followed this up, does remember this, it's a rumor from the days when this scandal started to surface.

A secratary or someone IN the office said that there were only few (3) bids and that it was well known that there was a very VIP bidder, Ms. Pojamarn and it was known that anyone comin' into her path had to bear the full impact of her scorn.... the rest is history!

At least in Hi-So ranks it was well known that something fishy went down with this "bidding"!

A hit like this makes it's round in a flash, this is NEWS!

[quiksilva]

Samuian, regarding the ownership see Steve's excellent post on the topic in Animatic's link above.

[younghusband]

Clausewitz - sounds to me like Professor Manop is being a little naive about the situation, just because two public listed firms participated in the auction does not mean the auction was fair and transparent to them. The guy pulling the strings made certain of that, and now he's been convicted of corruption.

Sopon raises the best point here,and this is the point of the land value. The government lost out on this deal, big time. So in effect the ruling did not go far enough.

Remember the values recorded here are only the government's appraised values, which in this case fall short of true market values. At the time of the sale, developers were recording staggering sales in the area. There were several projects that recorded 1,000 + condo units being sold over a single weekend.

Esacape Clausewitz, I suggest you read Steve's particularly informed post earlier.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2287194

I respect Steve too and he has a handle on corporate business which is otherwise almost completely absent on this forum.However I have to say the two property sector people I have spoken to (all at MD level) it is very far from certain there was collusion with L and H and Noble.I'm not saying Steve is wrong on this point but it's far from being certain.

[HelterSkelter]

"1158 User(s) are reading this topic (845 Guests and 2 Anonymous Users)"

Wow, I can't believe how many people want to see him burn in heII.

come on guy this is one of the most important decisions for the good of this wondeful country

WE ARE a naive bunch(Most of "Us")!

These laws ARE the Junta's "New"amendments to the constitution! RE: Thaksin was within the Code of law At said time the "Land" deal was made.

Can someone confirm that this statement is true. I don't like to execute a criminal and found out later that the court was rigged. i am sure that the judges (apart from Somchai who is a ex-judge) is not stupid enough not to pick this out.

didn't read the post #86 above?

Does anyone remember, that at one stage both of them claimed they did this purchase not for personal gain but for their children so to socialize with their mates in Bangkok they had a place to stay (33 Rai!!!)and didn't need to drive the long and dangerous distance! ? Anyone?

I thought it was the rudest reply ever... and blunt lie... seems these people have completely lost their feeling for right or wrong, basically seem to care <deleted>!

I am amazed at how many bloggers here if even peripherally, support/sympathize with PAD. Corruption is ingrained in Thai culture. It will take generations to eradicate. PAD claims democracy. Hah. Not even close. The closest thing to PAD politics is Communism. Let's get real guys. They waqnt to roll it back to 1973 with no clear plan, candidate or process. AS long as the press is not free and everyone can be bought, even the most primal form of democracy here is impossible. I love Thailand. been here for 18 years, have an extensive family here, and have seen the bouncing ball go every which way. I am saddened that the world is laughing at Thailand now. And the beat goes on...

ABSOLUTELY Correct! PAD repressive and quite simular to a stupid mix of Tat Madaw Burmese Junta and the old Creepy Pol Pot/ KmereRouge Polotics! You who spew negative? and Pro PAD supportive veiws will agree then? With their main veiw that" The Poor and uneducated should have NO (or little 30% locally only!) say in the Vote because they are "To dumb" to choose ?

WTFudd?

And the Obese endowment funding?(We need Detective Clouso to fined the Missing "Gem" here!)

Have some links to find the truths if you care to (Those who offer forth "Ignorants" based on NO FACT!)

http://www.mathaba.net/search/free.shtml?conds[0][operator]=RLIKE&conds[0][value]=Mathaba&conds[0][category........]=1&conds[1][operator]=m%3A%3E%3D&conds[1][value]=7776000&conds[1][publish_date....]=1&conds[2][operator]=LIKE&conds[2][headline........]=1&conds[2][full_text.......]=1&sort[0][publish_date....]=d&conds[2][value]=Thaksin&sa=GO

http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/20...7-october-2008/

Thai Constitution 1997: http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/constburns1.html

Of Recent FULL Changes and amendment processes of the above:

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/jurist_search.p...ai+constitution

The definitive History of the Thai Constitution :Beggining to Present:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Thailand

I do understand that alot of You out there prefer the "Disneyland" Utopic means of "News" consumption.Following "The Nation", "BKK Post","Manager" web site and Yes even ASTV ,(Personally as good as The Burmese Tat Madaw's information Rag "The Myanmar Star"!)

Simply "Because they are In English".But C'mon! That's a bit TOO easy! As opposed to "Our" BS Press in home nations(60% true 40% twisted BS) ASTV's Translation is about 15% accurate and 85% DooDoo!

Most of My Thai Freinds are the Aged.They were the peoples Who Humbly welcomed us here with a beautiful Smile and a sincere curiosity 21 years ago. Most are Quiet and will not speak their veiws so openly to strangers.But they are sad at the state of affairs presently.Most of the "Younger Peoples" will smile and tell farangs anything to keep the "Sabai Sabai" Party time,(Come and Spend Your Money) Fantasy and False feeling of security alive!

1) Thailand is A Developing Democracy.If some Hookey Power does not Hijack that process.

2) If One understands WHO and Why The Top Judges sit where they Do here.And More over What Protection they have (For their Dirty Past Deeds never brought to Legal issue!)One would Nkow that Present Judgements are Travesties!(Like Uh Bush won the second term?How?People see people learn!)

3) Most Important. ALL PEOPLE deserve the RIGHT to Vote and have a say in their Form of Society.On ALL Levels.Local and National!

These are Basic and fudamental Human Rights!

Peace Out!

Edited October 22, 2008 by HelterSkelter

[animatic]

Odds are if L and H and Noblie put in their bids before Thaksin's interest,

someone tipped Potty or Thaky to the price, they went in fractions higher,

and no further bids were offered, knowing WHO was coming in against them.

One must wonder, why super low bids were not thrown out as SOP.

Sorry folks not in the ball park, the people decline to sell.

It is as easy to believe TRT supporters L&H and NOB also just came in with

super low bids to make it SEEM legit as they made points with the big man.

Costs squat to make a unacceptable bid,

but scores big points with PM as cover story.

Edited October 22, 2008 by animatic

[TAWP]

3) Most Important. ALL PEOPLE deserve the RIGHT to Vote and have a say in their Form of Society.On ALL Levels.Local and National!

These are Basic and fudamental Human Rights!

Your post is a mix of confused rambling and non-factual based arguments, but I like this one above.

A human right to vote? Are you kidding me?

If it is a human right to vote, why is there an age limit? Why isn't it noted as an human right by any organization?

Fact is that voting in an election isn't a right at all. Only someone with poor realization of how the world works would even propose it should be.

Never mind the fact that the rant you are pulling is misguided, since everyone would under 'new politics' still be able to vote...

[marshbags]

Thaksin would have as much chance of being accepted into the world of London's upper class as the typical visa runner with awkward vowels, distended belly, yellow shirt and little ex-peasant "wife."He would be much better off in somewhere like Florida I would have thought.

Truly articulate this time Y.H., I think not

Thaksin is a convicted criminal with an infamous history of wrongdoing against human kind, corruption and the greed that goes with it, doesn,t give a <deleted> about ordinary citizens nor contrary to the belief of the poor he is wrongly alledged to care about.

They are as we all know on the last point cannon fodder he buys with his 500 baht notes with are pure and simply an investemnet to get their votes to enable his own self interest and continual enrichment which goes into the billions of baht against the pathetic 500 he has generously ( in their eyes anyway ) given them in the form of nothing more that a bribe.

You now have the nerve to in this post to what i consider an insulting observation into how you unjustly reckon in your words " typical visa runner " and all the derogatory observations that follow.

I will not post what i want to say about you in relation to this latest burst of slime that you have posted out of respect for forum rules.

I,ll ease up a little and just say this doesn,t even rank you as worthy of a pass to enter a lower class of the lowest society that is know to exist in the many places if disrepute i have seen over my years travelling the globe.

WAFLLAYA

We are indeed the complete opposite to how you describe us on the whole and very respectable family members, along with our wives and children

Why you have been allowed to get away with this comment without someone else picking up on it is puzzling to say the least.

I would hope the Mods and admin will allow me to respond, without censorship and while i appreciate it may be off topic in certain ways it is justified , if only to defend the Majority of visa runners who deserve better in your general degrading charactorisation of us all and our loved ones.

When you consider the persona of the scum this thread is all about, i humbly suggest the topic is about low life and integrity, lack of that is, so then again i could be on topic with my observation.

<deleted> you on YH apart from the bitter hate pills you may possibly take with your morning drink to get you in the mood to spread your philosophy on life within Thailand and among our membership ?

As for our American members on the forum, you also insult them all and in particualr those of the state of Florida who good people and respectful to their tourist, unlike yourself.

marshbags

Edited October 22, 2008 by marshbags

[steveromagnino]

I respect Steve too and he has a handle on corporate business which is otherwise almost completely absent on this forum.However I have to say the two property sector people I have spoken to (all at MD level) it is very far from certain there was collusion with L and H and Noble.I'm not saying Steve is wrong on this point but it's far from being certain.

According to my sources (and I know quite a few developers pretty well) there was certainly a clear signal sent to other developers that this plot wasn't worth bidding for since they would be bidding against an insider. Interesting, for instance, that LPN did not bid for it, nor did a bunch of others (some developers I have heard it said were advised that it wasn't worth bidding for as ALL major property companies have connections on land sold by the government and thus know who else is bidding).

No one denies it was sold for an extremely cheap price and it is prime development land. Would have made a great park, incidentally if not sold.

Whether there was collusion regarding the actual price - who knows; AFAIK they required 3 bids and they got 3 bids. Two came from developers who are closely allied with TRT, one from the PM's wife. None from unrelated companies. As many know from the ways corruption deals get done, you can quite easily always ensure 3 bidders for any piece of government business if you want it enough.

No smoking gun, but I am surprised that anyone would expect that the 3 parties didn't at least know who else was bidding. Certainly even in deals like the British Embassy site, sealed bids and all that but everyone knew who else were bidding 'unofficially' for the most part and not 100% accurate.....supposedly. So...quite possible no collusion was required price wise anyhow; with only 3 bidders, each could afford to low ball knowing that there were only 3. Would have been different with 2 rounds and more bidders as per British Embassy.

Just IMHO, but it would take someone fairly naive to think that Anant Asavabhokhin and Thaksin weren't meeting regularly about many matters; this is where the mechanics for the property boom came from; that was why Anant was one of the first major supporters and advisors to TRT pre election. They were representing 2 of the 4 richest families in Thailand at the time.

A ton of other deals were done like this - TAMC was basically set up to allow the magnates on the inside to cherry pick the pieces they wanted; Prachai was one guy that fought tooth and nail against it so TRT tried to placate him with TPI Polene but it wasn't enough; Phayathai hospital was another that a TRT insider ended up acquiring as TRT made major plays in energy, telcos, hospitals, property.

When we compare to selling PTT or airport deals - the land deal here is small fry and actual work. But to be so blatant was just stupid; kind of like the Khunying falsified paperwork where she forged documents but made a mistake on her title - you would think for people so smart, they sure were stupid to get tripped up by the tiny details.

And we've yet to hear an apology for either situation; especially the simple fraud (the signature smoking gun) of using a royally granted title no less which is impossible for even the most staunch Shinawatra family support to deny.

The courts have slowly and carefully done their homework and presented in a court of law which I believe (based on the ruling) to be ruling strictly on the letter of the law within the 4 corners of the papers presented.

Justice, in this case, has been served. One would hope only a very passionate lie perhaps including a few cries and possibly a claimed assignation attempt would lead the British to believe otherwise. Certainly the tax fraud case was even more clear cut and completely beyond any salvation.

Edited October 22, 2008 by steveromagnino

[Moonrakers]

Justice, in this case, has been served. Only a very passionate lie perhaps including a few cries and possibly a claimed assignation attempt would lead the British to believe otherwise.

So you think that there is a possibility of extradition then Steve?

[Samuian]

....edit...

No one denies it was sold for an extremely cheap price and it is prime development land. Would have made a great park, incidentally if not sold.

Whether there was collusion regarding the actual price - who knows; AFAIK they required 3 bids and they got 3 bids. Two came from developers who are closely allied with TRT, one from the PM's wife. Yaowapa - None from unrelated companies. t

The courts have slowly and carefully done their homework and presented in a court of law which I believe (based on the ruling) to be ruling strictly on the letter of the law within the 4 corners of the papers presented.

Justice, in this case, has been served. One would hope only a very passionate lie perhaps including a few cries and possibly a claimed assignation attempt would lead the British to believe otherwise. Certainly the tax fraud case was even more clear cut and completely beyond any salvation.

Thanks Steven for the factual run up...!

Fact is that they, the further they climbed, the less they cared, foolish, so there is plenty of evidence!

They simple got up on their little ego's and believed things will from then on, go only their way!

This represents very much the elements of why the coup had done - it had to go ahead - then there was not other way out to stop the looting of Thailand!

Themasek was very much the charge.... of the events taking place then!

All the chit chat about "fascist military junta", "back to the feudal system" condenses to a plain, but sad joke, looking at the evidence this couple and their wrongdoings has left behind and in which direction his ruler ship was heading, it was all only sales pitch, none of the promises have aver been under serious consideration!

Sure he was laughing and made a fool out of his electorate "the poor farmers"... 1000% sure!

How about the products of the poor, the rubber, the rice...? Now Rubber is crashing from 90 to 50 Baht...ah' well' "he helped the poor" there is such an irony in there that it hurts!

there is still plenty of mopping up to do...

Edited October 22, 2008 by Samuian

[steveromagnino]

Justice, in this case, has been served. Only a very passionate lie perhaps including a few cries and possibly a claimed assignation attempt would lead the British to believe otherwise.

So you think that there is a possibility of extradition then Steve?

What would make the most sense IMHO:

- issue a genuine apology

- donate a significant proportion of his wealth to charity (let's face it, the kids are going to lose it all anyway)

- issue a statement of never getting into politics again

- come back and serve time

- save his family and what they have left (his kids will go to jail if he doesn't)

- retire abroad

- die a hero to Isaan/the North (because, let's face it, quite a few of them like him)

However, he can't do that, because he now knows there is a string of cases and he lost his chance to negotiate (he did try, that was the reason for the approach to Prem at the funeral, he also came to show off by returning thinking it would never go this far due to his popularity).

Besides which he could have done that months or years ago - to do it now would seem very desparate and insincere.

I don't think he is capable of listening to anyone at this point either.

I really worry that they force the guy into a corner; because the compromise was before the ruling; now it is all one way. How can the courts be controlled to not try all the other cases (and there are a ton of them). He has already shown willingness to basically do anything to maintain control.

At least the 111 (or 108 depending who you read, I don't understand which is which) are deadbeats for the most part and so add nothing to the economy - it would be a glorious day for Thailand if they all up and left to move to Staines or Brixton or some other posh part of the UK. Just have to make sure they leave some of their cash here.

Edited October 22, 2008 by steveromagnino

[sriracha john]

What is number 8?

Or is this game over?

it's not over...

#8 will be posted after it occurs.... same as the previous 7

One has to laugh at this.He's trying to appear as some form of avenging angel whereas he's just another bloke hunched over his laptop.

yep, same as yourself...

except where I prefer to notate events that go the way I like to see them go... you seem to prefer predictions before the events.... which never seem to occur...

Edited October 22, 2008 by sriracha john

[cougar52]

I may well be flamed for this, however, this is my 2 cents to this argument.

#1. I do agree that the court has done it's job, and I am pleased with the outcome; it does not matter how good on the outside a person looks. You have to look at his heart! The simple thing is, I believe that if Thaksin had paid his taxes, none of this would have happened. ( Sort of like Nixon and watergate) I know many influential at that time would still have supported him, if he would have told the truth.

2. I would like to see Thaksin serve his time in Thailand, but I think it would be good Karma if the PAD 9 also had to serve their time along side Thaksin, that would be justice I already know many flamers are ready to torch me for this, and say they have not been convicted. Maybe my the time their cases go to court, Thaksin will be her to serve also . You may wonder what crimes they have committed. Just a few would be enough. (Kidnapping, destroying property, inciting a riot (They have to accept some responsibility for Oct 7th) assault, also hijacking not only vehicles but property.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin would have as much chance of being accepted into the world of London's upper class as the typical visa runner with awkward vowels, distended belly, yellow shirt and little ex-peasant "wife."He would be much better off in somewhere like Florida I would have thought.

Truly articulate this time Y.H., I think not

Thaksin is a convicted criminal with an infamous history of wrongdoing against human kind, corruption and the greed that goes with it, doesn,t give a <deleted> about ordinary citizens nor contrary to the belief of the poor he is wrongly alledged to care about.

They are as we all know on the last point cannon fodder he buys with his 500 baht notes with are pure and simply an investemnet to get their votes to enable his own self interest and continual enrichment which goes into the billions of baht against the pathetic 500 he has generously ( in their eyes anyway ) given them in the form of nothing more that a bribe.

You now have the nerve to in this post to what i consider an insulting observation into how you unjustly reckon in your words " typical visa runner " and all the derogatory observations that follow.

I will not post what i want to say about you in relation to this latest burst of slime that you have posted out of respect for forum rules.

I,ll ease up a little and just say this doesn,t even rank you as worthy of a pass to enter a lower class of the lowest society that is know to exist in the many places if disrepute i have seen over my years travelling the globe.

WAFLLAYA

We are indeed the complete opposite to how you describe us on the whole and very respectable family members, along with our wives and children

Why you have been allowed to get away with this comment without someone else picking up on it is puzzling to say the least.

I would hope the Mods and admin will allow me to respond, without censorship and while i appreciate it may be off topic in certain ways it is justified , if only to defend the Majority of visa runners who deserve better in your general degrading charactorisation of us all and our loved ones.

When you consider the persona of the scum this thread is all about, i humbly suggest the topic is about low life and integrity, lack of that is, so then again i could be on topic with my observation.

<deleted> you on YH apart from the bitter hate pills you may possibly take with your morning drink to get you in the mood to spread your philosophy on life within Thailand and among our membership ?

As for our American members on the forum, you also insult them all and in particualr those of the state of Florida who good people and respectful to their tourist, unlike yourself.

marshbags

very good post...

but it's just younghusband being younghusband...

[Pierrot]

Today we had a couple of meeting with a group of Thai businessmen touring Hong Kong and China to participate to the local trade shows. During lunch we had a light hearted discussion about the current situation in Thailand. When we asked their opinion regarding the recent conviction of Mr. Thaksin, all we got was an embarrassed silence, obviously they didn’t want to talk about it. I know there were people from both side but it seems that they all believe this media circus doesn’t serve anybody’s interest.

On the other hand, when the discussion moved to the protest in the streets, there was no more embarrassment but a unanimous condemnation of a group of selfish individual who don’t care about the well being of the country. So I don’t know who the PAD supporters represent but definitively not the business sector.

[animatic]

3) Most Important. ALL PEOPLE deserve the RIGHT to Vote and have a say in their Form of Society.On ALL Levels.Local and National!

These are Basic and fudamental Human Rights!

Your post is a mix of confused rambling and non-factual based arguments, but I like this one above.

A human right to vote? Are you kidding me?

If it is a human right to vote, why is there an age limit? Why isn't it noted as an human right by any organization?

Fact is that voting in an election isn't a right at all. Only someone with poor realization of how the world works would even propose it should be.

Never mind the fact that the rant you are pulling is misguided, since everyone would under 'new politics' still be able to vote...

If you commit a felony you lose the right to vote.

I don't think there is voting in jails here,

and limited to non-felons in USA, and I don't thinkso in France.

If you are not compis mentis you lose the right to vote.

If you are under-age you haven't attained the right to vote.

If you are not in your registered voting district

you lose the right to vote, except by extraordinary means.

Or a return trip to your precinct.

Not sure about literacy requirements here though.

It is not an absolute that you get to vote.

You must attain certain levels of qualifications to vote ; simple as that.

[animatic]

Today we had a couple of meeting with a group of Thai businessmen touring Hong Kong and China to participate to the local trade shows. During lunch we had a light hearted discussion about the current situation in Thailand. When we asked their opinion regarding the recent conviction of Mr. Thaksin, all we got was an embarrassed silence, obviously they didn’t want to talk about it. I know there were people from both side but it seems that they all believe this media circus doesn’t serve anybody’s interest.

On the other hand, when the discussion moved to the protest in the streets, there was no more embarrassment but a unanimous condemnation of a group of selfish individual who don’t care about the well being of the country. So I don’t know who the PAD supporters represent but definitively not the business sector.

Or you just lunched with a TRT / PPP corner of the business sector.

Face it your lunch mates side lost and haven't figured out the next game plan.

[animatic]

The stupidest thing I have seen today,

is someone, somewhere, REALLY not understanding Statue Of Limitations laws.

Not sure of it was the writer, or the framers of the law.

But they seemed to say;

Thaksin MUST be brought back to incarceration within 2 years to fit in

the 10 Year Statute Of Limitations from the date the CRIME was committed.

Either wrong or daft law making.

He got tried and convicted with 2 years to spare on a 10 year SOL.

10 years to capture and bring to trial sure or you get off.

That is not unusual.

But once convicted there is no limitations on capture after evasion,

and ultimately incarceration to proscribed term.

It stands and awaits you coming to serve the time. End of story.

But this is Thailand, who KNOWS how they wrote the bleedin' law...

Bad translation maybe?

[plachon]

Today we had a couple of meeting with a group of Thai businessmen touring Hong Kong and China to participate to the local trade shows. During lunch we had a light hearted discussion about the current situation in Thailand. When we asked their opinion regarding the recent conviction of Mr. Thaksin, all we got was an embarrassed silence, obviously they didn’t want to talk about it. I know there were people from both side but it seems that they all believe this media circus doesn’t serve anybody’s interest.

On the other hand, when the discussion moved to the protest in the streets, there was no more embarrassment but a unanimous condemnation of a group of selfish individual who don’t care about the well being of the country. So I don’t know who the PAD supporters represent but definitively not the business sector.

Media circus?? The man was convicted of a crime in a court of law? What's the media got to do with that decision? I guess you like your Thai business friends have a higher opinion of Thaksinomics in a Thaksinocracy than judicial process in a country under a government headed by the self-same Thaksin's brother-in-law? Pathetic really - both your reaction and their "embarassed silence". Even more pathetic and worrying is their condemnation of PAD as "selfish individuals who don't care about the well-being of the country". And to conclude from your one meeting with Toxinophiles that PAD has no support in the business sector of Thailand is just so laughable, that one can soon see which sort of persons on this thread lose credibility due to inability to accept reality and face truths.

[marshbags]

Edited by marshbags

but it's just younghusband being younghusband...

Like Thaksin and his ilk of thieves, you are in denial of the reality Y.H. and yes exactly in the same you are making it obvious when it comes to showing respect for the rule of law.

This is not a junta enrolled court that convicted him based on the evidence put before them that found him guilty.

As has already been mentioned several times in this thread the majority of one was considered fair and lawfull, without the sort of lame defending and suggestion that indeed he was all but innocent, prior to the illegally minipulated and obvious bribing to achieve his position of premeir at his initial inception that took place

As in the 2001 scenario he was and is guilty one hundred percent of not only these two criminal acts, but many more including those aleeady in waiting for him should he choose / be returned ?? to Thailand.

While i / others may be inarticulate as you hinted previously, i can recognise the truth of what is taking place in todays Thailand and i also recognise it is people of a similar bitter nature to yours who are intent on destroying fair democracy that is so desperately wished for and needed.

All in the name of the scum in exile and his coherts who are supposedly the elected government of the country who are supposedly elected to oversee the interests of it,s citizens and advancement of it for all their sakes.

They are not elected to run a campaign of hate and near anarchy with the sole purpose of benefitting convicted criminals and in doing so destroying the country for their own selfish, self interests and purposes, to escape just prosecution via overpowering evidence proving criminality and intent, while in power and continual abuse of authority.

Cotinued arrogance has and is their downfall in all that is now unfolding.

Get real YH !!!!!

marshbags

P.S.

As for those who seemingly enroll as newbies to start having a go.......in their new identities ( Who do ), why not have the bottle to post in your existing T.Visa I.D,s instead of posting as supposedly new observers wanting to voice / add negative and inciting debate to ruin the thread / threads.

Then again, perhaps you have already been banned for similar disruptions previously.

PPS

To those who are genuine new posters your comments are more than welcomed by our membership and we all encourage your inclusion for healthy interesting debate.

Edited October 23, 2008 by marshbags

[HelterSkelter]

From The Nation web-site:

"Thaksin's lawyers file complaint against Sondhi

<H2></H2>

"Two layers of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra filed a complaint with police alleging Sondhi Limthongkul, the Manager Daily and ASTV with defaming him ... The two layers said they were authorised by Thaksin to take legal action against Sondhi for making defamation statement against the former prime minister and the statement was published by the paper and aired on the satellite TV"

I'm confused ... isn't it the case that he has no faith in the Thai justice system? So how can he carry on suing people? You can't reject the system when it suits you (i.e. when you are charged) and then turn around and rely on it to help you out!

Deformation of Character and slander is illegal here.(So is Threatening killing and Maiming other people as "Sody"

has been doing publicly for weeks!)

[AlKing]

Odds are if L and H and Noblie put in their bids before Thaksin's interest,

someone tipped Potty or Thaky to the price, they went in fractions higher,

and no further bids were offered, knowing WHO was coming in against them.

One must wonder, why super low bids were not thrown out as SOP.

Sorry folks not in the ball park, the people decline to sell.

It is as easy to believe TRT supporters L&H and NOB also just came in with

super low bids to make it SEEM legit as they made points with the big man.

Costs squat to make a unacceptable bid,

but scores big points with PM as cover story.

I don't think that LH & NOBLE re related to Thaksin. If they do, they could fix the deal to make sure LH (or NOBLE) wins. On completion of the purchase from the government, on sold to Thaksin at cost (or a small profit). I am sure that Thaksin will figure that out.

Everyone seems to think that FIDF sold too cheaply. That is not true. FIDF sold the property at the market price at that time. FIDF & BOT have defended that (else they would have gone to jail too). No one knew that the property price in that area was about to appreciate that much.

In an unrelated case. Sonthi accuse the Thai Railway to lease out the Central Ladprow land too cheaply. That was not true as well. At the time when the land was leased out, no one knew that that piece of waste land so far from the city was about to become one of North Bangkok hottest property.

[HelterSkelter]

3) Most Important. ALL PEOPLE deserve the RIGHT to Vote and have a say in their Form of Society.On ALL Levels.Local and National!

These are Basic and fudamental Human Rights!

Your post is a mix of confused rambling and non-factual based arguments, but I like this one above.

A human right to vote? Are you kidding me?

If it is a human right to vote, why is there an age limit? Why isn't it noted as an human right by any organization?

Fact is that voting in an election isn't a right at all. Only someone with poor realization of how the world works would even propose it should be.

Never mind the fact that the rant you are pulling is misguided, since everyone would under 'new politics' still be able to vote...

To retort with "Moron" would be a blight on the unfortunate mentally handicapped!

First, age limits.

"If it is a human right to vote, why is there an age limit?"

For the same reason Children are'nt allowed to "Sell butt" "drink Booze" or join Armies!To protect them until they are fully developed.Physically and Mentally.18 to 21 seems to be the universal Studied and agreed academic norm

For Adulthood.

"(If it is a human right to vote)Why isn't it noted as an human right by any organization?"

Oh It IS! You are either too ignorant to fathom the deep hidden meanings in the textual content.Or You like to

misinform people while sounding as though You know what you speak about!

Article 21.

• (1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
  (2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
  (3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
  

"Fact is that voting in an election isn't a right at all. Only someone with poor realization of how the world works would even propose it should be."

Is Your Processor Seriously Damaged or WHAT!

Nearly ALL Human Rights organizations have at least reference to if not a Charter for Voting/choice inclusion in the national ruling body.

On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the full text of which appears in the following pages. Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and "to cause it to be disseminated, displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions, without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories."

THE LINK: http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

So TAWP You should'nt just talk "Brown Mouth"! Because that is what it is when One Lies about Facts.

If You simply voiced your opinion, THAT I would respect!

But to act as a "Know it all" while spewing dis-information!??(" Why isn't it noted as an human right by any organization?")

I wonder have You ever even looked at ANY Human Rights Information?

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

How Old are You By The Way?

More links:

http://www.hrw.org/

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/Pages/Hum...ghtsBodies.aspx

www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp2000/rp00-032.pd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Dec...of_Human_Rights

www.justice.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/DOJ+Internet/Home/Your+Rights/

www.dca.gov.uk/peoples-rights/human-rights/faqs.htm

[animatic]

From The Nation web-site:

"Thaksin's lawyers file complaint against Sondhi

<H2></H2>

"Two layers of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra filed a complaint with police alleging Sondhi Limthongkul, the Manager Daily and ASTV with defaming him ... The two layers said they were authorised by Thaksin to take legal action against Sondhi for making defamation statement against the former prime minister and the statement was published by the paper and aired on the satellite TV"

I'm confused ... isn't it the case that he has no faith in the Thai justice system? So how can he carry on suing people? You can't reject the system when it suits you (i.e. when you are charged) and then turn around and rely on it to help you out!

Deformation of Character and slander is illegal here.(So is Threatening killing and Maiming other people as "Sody"

has been doing publicly for weeks!)

Deformation of charachter is the basis for all this

Thaksin has been BENT in character for years.

Defamation is only defamation of it is patently untrue.

Thaksin is clutching at straws now. Sadly some of them CAN kill people.

So, why isn't Salang charged for inciting 1,000 people to riot in the streets..

[animatic]

This one is too muddled not to color quote inside the boxes.. sorry mods.

3) Most Important. ALL PEOPLE deserve the RIGHT to Vote and have a say in their Form of Society.On ALL Levels.Local and National!

These are Basic and fudamental Human Rights!

Your post is a mix of confused rambling and non-factual based arguments, but I like this one above.

A human right to vote? Are you kidding me?

If it is a human right to vote, why is there an age limit? Why isn't it noted as an human right by any organization?

To retort with "Moron" would be a blight on the unfortunate mentally handicapped!

{Well, a flame by another name would still smell like manure...}

First, age limits.

"If it is a human right to vote, why is there an age limit?"

For the same reason Children aren't allowed to "Sell butt" "drink Booze" or join Armies!

To protect them until they are fully developed.Physically and Mentally.

18 to 21 seems to be the universal Studied and agreed academic norm For Adulthood.

Well, so it IS as I stated,

They must meet some criteria OTHER than just being HUMAN.

"(If it is a human right to vote)Why isn't it noted as an human right by any organization?"

{ this was not a well thought out statement...maybe you just don't know}

Oh It IS! You are either too ignorant to fathom the deep hidden meanings in the textual content.Or You like to

misinform people while sounding as though You know what you speak about!

{And another flame to incredibly increase our reading pleasure...plus teapot/kettle}

Article 21.

• (1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
  [freely choosen representatives... who those of the Issan Puyai's???}
  (2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
  {Ampur, hospital, landoffice etc sure, not stopped here.
  Does the average Somchai get any say in the country.. nada...}
  (3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote
  or by equivalent free voting procedures.
  

{Equal suffrage implies something close to fairness, not gerrymandering local puyai's

and TRT/PPP blocking ANY OTHER VIEWS FROM BEING HEARD...}

"Fact is that voting in an election isn't a right at all. Only someone with poor realization of how the world works would even propose it should be."

It is in 'reality' an option in life, you can vote or not, some places do vote.

Most place make changes in their voting systems to correct for abuses, others don't. Most do.

Some places cancel votes for lack of fairness, some recount, some don't.

Someplaces hold elections but goon squads stand and intimidate voters.

Some don't some changes to INCREASE voting inequities too. PPP tries to

Universal suffrage is supported as a utopian right, but in practice it is often as

muddled and inaccurate as much of this posting. It is NOT without criteria that must be met first

Is Your Processor Seriously Damaged or WHAT!

{Flame}

Nearly ALL Human Rights organizations have at least reference to if not a Charter for Voting/choice inclusion in the national ruling body.

{Not ALL human rights organizations... these blanket statements don't fly.}

On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the

Universal Declaration of Human Rights the full text of which appears in the following pages.

Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and "to cause it to be disseminated, displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions, without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories."

THE LINK: http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

So TAWP You should'nt just talk "Brown Mouth"! Because that is what it is when One Lies about Facts.

If You simply voiced your opinion, THAT I would respect!

But to act as a "Know it all" while spewing dis-information!??(" Why isn't it noted as an human right by any organization?")

I wonder have You ever even looked at ANY Human Rights Information?

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

{One of the few things you have said I can agree with.

But that doesn't mean you can then be disagreed with.

It just means we can't beat you into silence, or SUE you into silence.}

How Old are You By The Way?

{irrelevant}

More links:

http://www.hrw.org/

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/Pages/Hum...ghtsBodies.aspx

www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp2000/rp00-032.pd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Dec...of_Human_Rights

www.justice.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/DOJ+Internet/Home/Your+Rights/

www.dca.gov.uk/peoples-rights/human-rights/faqs.htm

At least you do some research.

Edited October 23, 2008 by animatic

[younghusband]

Like Thaksin and his ilk of thieves, you are in denial of the reality Y.H. and yes exactly in the same you are making it obvious when it comes to showing respect for the rule of law.

This is not a junta enrolled court that convicted him based on the evidence put before them that found him guilty.

As has already been mentioned several times in this thread the majority of one was considered fair and lawfull, without the sort of lame defending and suggestion that indeed he was all but innocent, prior to the illegally minipulated and obvious bribing to achieve his position of premeir at his initial inception that took place

As in the 2001 scenario he was and is guilty one hundred percent of not only these two criminal acts, but many more including those aleeady in waiting for him should he choose / be returned ?? to Thailand.

While i / others may be inarticulate as you hinted previously, i can recognise the truth of what is taking place in todays Thailand and i also recognise it is people of a similar bitter nature to yours who are intent on destroying fair democracy that is so desperately wished for and needed.

All in the name of the scum in exile and his coherts who are supposedly the elected government of the country who are supposedly elected to oversee the interests of it,s citizens and advancement of it for all their sakes.

They are not elected to run a campaign of hate and near anarchy with the sole purpose of benefitting convicted criminals and in doing so destroying the country for their own selfish, self interests and purposes, to escape just prosecution via overpowering evidence proving criminality and intent, while in power and continual abuse of authority.

Cotinued arrogance has and is their downfall in all that is now unfolding.

Get real YH !!!!!

marshbags

Don't really want to get into a flame war with you Marshbanks not least since I recognise your basic decency.

What I would say is that nobody has a monopoly of truth or virtue.The rule of law is of course important but most would recognise it has been distorted in Thailand, certainly by Thaksin but also by others.

I suspect that what has set you going however is my slightly facetious description of the typical visa runner.My point was simply that Thaksin has little chance of being accepted by London's elite.For the record neither have I.

[Samuian]

3) Most Important. ALL PEOPLE deserve the RIGHT to Vote and have a say in their Form of Society.On ALL Levels.Local and National!

These are Basic and fudamental Human Rights!Yes, talking like your masters, the following rules about the "RIGHT OF VOTE are the SAFEGUARDS against abuse, against electoral fraud, which have been proven circumvented by the former TRT led Gowvernment und the leadership of now convicted fugitive Ex-Premier Mr.Taxin!

Your post is a mix of confused rambling and non-factual based arguments, but I like this one above.

A human right to vote? Are you kidding me?

If it is a human right to vote, why is there an age limit? Why isn't it noted as an human right by any organization?

Fact is that voting in an election isn't a right at all. Only someone with poor realization of how the world works would even propose it should be.

Never mind the fact that the rant you are pulling is misguided, since everyone would under 'new politics' still be able to vote...

If you commit a felony you lose the right to vote.

I don't think there is voting in jails here,

and limited to non-felons in USA, and I don't thinkso in France.

If you are not compis mentis you lose the right to vote.

If you are under-age you haven't attained the right to vote.

If you are not in your registered voting district

you lose the right to vote, except by extraordinary means.

Or a return trip to your precinct.

Not sure about literacy requirements here though.

It is not an absolute that you get to vote.

You must attain certain levels of qualifications to vote ; simple as that.

The rest is history, as Mr.Taxin tries now to deny the courts, which has sentenced him in absence, to 2 years imprisonment, it's legality!

Simply to defend his wrongdoings, with this move ha makes ever more a fool out of himself!

And for the better, delivering more evidence that he cheated where ever possible is the still pending investigation in his "assets concealment" and "honest mistakes" case, where his brother in law, the present Prime Minister had probably a hand in influencing/bribing the judges in this years old case, which was quite spectacular at the time of the release of the verdict, which raised the eyebrows of many.

Feeling reinforced by the way he could manipulate the outcome, even the verdict of a high court, he felt secure to do anything he wished to do and he did....now the time for the settlement has come, the tide has turned. He went a step too far as a few posters here on this thread agree, if... he would have paid his taxes, may some genuine charity and genuinely looked after that things were dealt in transparency, he had all the ingredients at hand to become a genuine hero of the nation, but it was his choice, every body has a choice.... he chose to do it his way "All or Nothing"!

Not to mention that in the process he got so much carried away that he trampelt on to the shoes of some people he shouldn't have.....the boasted with .... ah well, some might know, what he was genuinely after, what his future target was and this is where he simply took the affairs that fraction too far, too early!

And failed....

That is why all what is blamed onto the Surayud Government, the people involved in the coup de Etat, at the PAD... is based on deception, Taxin had a big PR machinery going, it moight have shrunk a bit, but who can tell for sure?

All the shortcomings, dictatorial, ensuring absolute Majority in Parliament through election fraud, party meddling, is what the TRT, the PPP, the present Government should be blamed for, all this is simply turned around and blamed "Operation Gleiwitz" style.

Looks like he is still fast becoming the loser of the game...

Edited October 23, 2008 by Samuian