University In Thailand Vs. U.s.a.

[legendarysurfer]

I have so far gone with the conventional wisdom that for a tri-lingual (Thai, Lao, English) young person, an education in the U.S.A. is more advantageous for future employment in Thailand than is a Thai university education. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with this? ... I'm also interested in any statistical data on employment of Thai public university graduates and what kinds of jobs are likely to be in demand in 5 years time... Thanks, in advance, for all responses.

[murrell]

My wife received her BA in Accounting from a university in USA (2006). Although she had taken 2 years English at AUA in Bangkok, she opted for a year in the US Government sponsored ESL and then a year of college credit (60 term hours) of which 45 hours was transferrable. Then 6 more years full time to finish her BA degree for a total of 8 years, graduating with a 3.67 GPA overall. She made the Dean's list 2 years, Phi Beta Kappa, etc..... This was an expensive education although because she became a resident and later a US Citizen she qualified for lower tuition costs. She had to work very hard for her undergraduate degree because she was competing directly with American students, different than beening in a Masters program for foreign students.

Bottomline is that she feels her Thai is not college level, only high school level because she received her college education in English. And because she has spent so much time outside Thailand she is considered an outsider, consequently employers are not standing in line to hire her. In retrospect I think she would have been a lot better off going to Chulalongkorn and maybe doing a year abroad in some sort of exchange program.

She is currently in Thailand (Kalasin) and investigating going back to school in some sort of Masters program in Thailand so that she can establish herself. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions.

[bjsanook]

All I can say is the sister in law goes to Ramkhamhaeng University 3+ years. Every time I visit I walk around the area next to campus. There are stalls everywhere selling the courses they are taking with the answers to the texts and exams. Can't help wonder how well this prepares them for anything. Also, her English skills have hardly advanced from day one.

If I had to guess, and this is just MHO I would say their system is much like the South Korean's who view college as party and socializing time.

Was it like that in the US? No, I almost crapped my first semester when I realized I would actually have to study.

BJ

[PeaceBlondie]

In the US, I crapped my initial semester at a very good university, and later as well. But I went to junior colleges along the way, schools so rinky-dink that one registrar at a state uni literally laughed in my face when I presented her with the transcript. There are thousands of unis of every rank in the USA, and Thailand also has a very wide range. However, if I did not learn my accounting at those rinky-dink junior colleges, I failed. I earned every course I passed, and every passing grade, from D to A.

Generally, the conventional wisdom is that all things being equal, the Western higher education is better. But all things are never equal.

[Issangeorge]

Murrell, if your wife is looking for a job, maybe she should apply for a job teaching English at Ban Na Khu High School. Non of their Thai English teachers can speak English worth a dam. Your wife can tell them she is Filipino and start around ฿20,000 a month, a lot more than a first time Thai Teacher. Issangeorge.

[legendarysurfer]

Thank you, guys, for responding... My step-daughter is a junior in HS, here in the US. She now wants to go to college in Thailand, which to me is like changing horses in the middle of the stream, but I am open to it. It's not too late to make that change in direction, I think, and her relatively poor preliminary SAT scores indicate that might not be such a bad move, anyway. Her mother wants her to go to college in the US. I will prevail on any decision, but I want to be confident I'm making the right ones for all concerned. My main desires on this issue is that she majors in something that [1] makes sense and [2] that she if not enjoys, at least is interested in, and that [3] her diploma will ensure her viability in the Thai job market... She has no clue as to a major, but has shown aptitude with languages (tri-lingual, already: Thai, Lao, English, with a beginning level in Chinese) and is pretty good with math. She gets straight A's, but shuns any learning outside the classroom.

[Svenn]

Thank you, guys, for responding... My step-daughter is a junior in HS, here in the US. She now wants to go to college in Thailand, which to me is like changing horses in the middle of the stream, but I am open to it. It's not too late to make that change in direction, I think, and her relatively poor preliminary SAT scores indicate that might not be such a bad move, anyway. Her mother wants her to go to college in the US. I will prevail on any decision, but I want to be confident I'm making the right ones for all concerned. My main desires on this issue is that she majors in something that [1] makes sense and [2] that she if not enjoys, at least is interested in, and that [3] her diploma will ensure her viability in the Thai job market... She has no clue as to a major, but has shown aptitude with languages (tri-lingual, already: Thai, Lao, English, with a beginning level in Chinese) and is pretty good with math. She gets straight A's, but shuns any learning outside the classroom.

The understanding I have of it, as a 23-year old law student in the USA, is that American universities, even some weird place like Eastern Oregon U., are considered better than Thai ones and Thais, actually all Asians even including Japanese, always seek out American degrees. It doesn't make much sense, considering that Thai students undoubtedly work much harder than American counterparts and probably learn a lot more... the only explanation I can guess is that American students are more creative or have more access to independent research. I think most Asians just want to travel and get the hel_l out of their monotonous, conformist, socially stratified countries.

As far as your stepdaughter, my only advice is that she get a major that gets her a good job- all this bs about finding something your 'passionate about' really gets old after the first year of undergrad. i.e. she may have a great time if she gets a major in sociology or music, but she'll start kicking herself when she realizes she's stuck in a low-pay office job at 22 years old. Most Thais already recognize this, so even if she gets a practical degree, I assume there's still going to be high competition for Thai jobs. For American jobs, you really need to just get a graduate degree to get a decent one, thus I'd suggest getting through undergrad as fast as possible (it can be done in 2.5 years) then put your real energy in graduate school.

O, and isn't it kinda cheating to say she's trilingual? Lao is just the scruffy-sidekick slackjaw of Thai, I thought they were mutually intelligable?

Edited October 23, 2008 by Svenn

[murrell]

Thanks George, your suggestions seem reasonable. I too thought getting a job teaching at the local HS would be a good idea, but my wife is not too excited about it for a couple of reasons. One is she thinks it's better to teach outside the immediate area for privacy reasons and to avoid being the subject of gossip. In addition, because she has been abroad for an extended period of time, compounded by the fact that she has her degree from the US she feels a lot of resistance from the local academes and feels like an outsider. Lastly, she could hardly pass as a Filipina in that everyone knows her because she grew up in the community. Yes, I heard that the Thais consider Filipinos native speakers of English; I guess they have never been to the Philippines. <G> The good news is that she doesn't need a Visa or Work Permit.

I had heard that the foreign HS English teachers were earning 30K per month; is it only 20K?

[maccaroni man]

Thanks George, your suggestions seem reasonable. I too thought getting a job teaching at the local HS would be a good idea, but my wife is not too excited about it for a couple of reasons. One is she thinks it's better to teach outside the immediate area for privacy reasons and to avoid being the subject of gossip. In addition, because she has been abroad for an extended period of time, compounded by the fact that she has her degree from the US she feels a lot of resistance from the local academes and feels like an outsider. Lastly, she could hardly pass as a Filipina in that everyone knows her because she grew up in the community. Yes, I heard that the Thais consider Filipinos native speakers of English; I guess they have never been to the Philippines. <G> The good news is that she doesn't need a Visa or Work Permit.

I had heard that the foreign HS English teachers were earning 30K per month; is it only 20K?

Lets face it mate, your wife does not want to work; wants to return to school, university Thai vs High school Thai, what is that ? Resistance from academs, what? I can guarantee you this, go into to any major board room in thailand and at min 50% will have USA education. Business consultants almost all have USA degrees, doctors, lawyers, accountants, go to Stanford, Harvard and UCLA. The bottom line is your wife has the advantage in Thailand if she really wants to work, obviously she has already found her career choice, wife and student.

[Scalawag]

Having taught in high schools and universities in both America and Thailand, I would equate graduates from a good U.S. high school with graduates from any Thai university. The lack of global knowledge, history and current world events in Thai students is appalling. I think American high school students would far surpass Thai university students, especially in the above areas................

[Lifer]

Having taught in high schools and universities in both America and Thailand, I would equate graduates from a good U.S. high school with graduates from any Thai university. The lack of global knowledge, history and current world events in Thai students is appalling. I think American high school students would far surpass Thai university students, especially in the above areas................

You are right about that. I have taught at colleges and universities in U.S., Thailand, and Europe. I teach business and accounting subjects, and have taught English in specialized business programs. The maturity level of undergrad students is very low. The undergrad degrees I see being passed out equate to a U.S. high school degree. Although there are a few very good, dedicated students here in Thailand, many are lazy and want to do as little as possible to get through there studies.

[toptuan]

Having taught in high schools and universities in both America and Thailand, I would equate graduates from a good U.S. high school with graduates from any Thai university. The lack of global knowledge, history and current world events in Thai students is appalling. I think American high school students would far surpass Thai university students, especially in the above areas................

Spot on. Having also taught in both cultures, my Junior High American students (ages 12-14) had equal skills of analytical reasoning as do my current Thai university students (ages 18-21). All these kids want to do, here, is "copy + paste + turn it in". Sad.

***********************************************************

Also here's a website which helps confirm PeaceBlondie's earlier post:

http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp

USA universities dominate the top 100. You have to scroll quite a ways before you can find any of Thailand's top-ranking universities. Chula clocks in around 444th. Kasetsart - 544.

Edited October 27, 2008 by toptuan

[citizen33]

***********************************************************

Also here's a website which helps confirm PeaceBlondie's earlier post:

http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp

USA universities dominate the top 100. You have to scroll quite a ways before you can find any of Thailand's top-ranking universities. Chula clocks in around 444th. Kasetsart - 544.

Interestingly rankings have come up in a couple of recent TV threads, and Chula seems to be doing pretty well at No 166 in the Times Higher Education list. Mahidol has jumped over others like Kasetsart and AIT that have done well in previous lists.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Congratulati...ol-t218813.html

I know these rankings are very controversial but I think that it is good that some Thai institutions are registering on the map. What is your view about the best in Isaan? Guess it has got be be KKU.

[legendarysurfer]

As far as your stepdaughter, my only advice is that she get a major that gets her a good job- all this bs about finding something your 'passionate about' really gets old after the first year of undergrad. i.e. she may have a great time if she gets a major in sociology or music, but she'll start kicking herself when she realizes she's stuck in a low-pay office job at 22 years old. Most Thais already recognize this, so even if she gets a practical degree, I assume there's still going to be high competition for Thai jobs. For American jobs, you really need to just get a graduate degree to get a decent one, thus I'd suggest getting through undergrad as fast as possible (it can be done in 2.5 years) then put your real energy in graduate school.

O, and isn't it kinda cheating to say she's trilingual? Lao is just the scruffy-sidekick slackjaw of Thai, I thought they were mutually intelligable?

I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate everyone's perspective and help. Svenn's quote, above, hits closest to my daughter's situation, so let me elaborate a little more about her:

She is a straight-A student, but spends no time outside of her required coursework on learning.

Is good with languages (yes, I'm including Lao as a bona fide language).

Does not know what she wants to do with her life in the long run (did any of us, at 17?).

Recognizes the need to graduate from a school that will ensure her employment marketability.

After 3 years in the US, is increasingly homesick.

What about trade schools vs. universities? Are there such options in Thailand and how do they compare for post-graduation employment and salary?

[ronz28]

One of my Thai-American daughters graduated from a University in the US with a degree in Microbiology. It took her a while to get that degree as she had a lot of fun in college. She has been working as a clinical research associate working with teams developing new drugs for the last 5 years since graduating and earns more than $75K U.S. per year plus benefits and and all the luxury travel and airline and other travel benefits she can stand. To me, good jobs depend more on the industry you chose to work in rather than the college degree you have.

Accounting firms and government accounting managers seem to be experts at working their staff long hours and underpaying their staff because they are such "budget experts" and "smart managers". If she is being underpaid it may be the employer/industry rather than the source of her degree. Who pays well in the U.S.? ....pharmaceutical companies, investment funds, oil & gas companies, some utilities and defense contractors. Of course there are exceptions and others that people could suggest.

[Issangeorge]

Thanks George, your suggestions seem reasonable. I too thought getting a job teaching at the local HS would be a good idea, but my wife is not too excited about it for a couple of reasons. One is she thinks it's better to teach outside the immediate area for privacy reasons and to avoid being the subject of gossip. In addition, because she has been abroad for an extended period of time, compounded by the fact that she has her degree from the US she feels a lot of resistance from the local academes and feels like an outsider. Lastly, she could hardly pass as a Filipina in that everyone knows her because she grew up in the community. Yes, I heard that the Thais consider Filipinos native speakers of English; I guess they have never been to the Philippines. <G> The good news is that she doesn't need a Visa or Work Permit.

I had heard that the foreign HS English teachers were earning 30K per month; is it only 20K?

30 plus for white native English speaking Teachers, somewhat under that for most other teachers. Filipinos seem to make 15,000 to 25,000, which you have to remember is a lot more than they make at home, unlike native English speakers who take a pay cut. Issangeorge

[toptuan]

***********************************************************

Also here's a website which helps confirm PeaceBlondie's earlier post:

http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp

USA universities dominate the top 100. You have to scroll quite a ways before you can find any of Thailand's top-ranking universities. Chula clocks in around 444th. Kasetsart - 544.

Interestingly rankings have come up in a couple of recent TV threads, and Chula seems to be doing pretty well at No 166 in the Times Higher Education list. Mahidol has jumped over others like Kasetsart and AIT that have done well in previous lists.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Congratulati...ol-t218813.html

I know these rankings are very controversial but I think that it is good that some Thai institutions are registering on the map. What is your view about the best in Isaan? Guess it has got be be KKU.

Yes, in most polls, KKU seems to consistently rank highest among Isaan universities.

[prapagorn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramkhamhaeng_University

you can compare if you would like to do and learning master degree.

i had heard can more up salary in thailand *-*

[Svenn]

I'm enjoying this thread and appreciate everyone's perspective and help. Svenn's quote, above, hits closest to my daughter's situation, so let me elaborate a little more about her:

She is a straight-A student, but spends no time outside of her required coursework on learning.

Is good with languages (yes, I'm including Lao as a bona fide language).

Does not know what she wants to do with her life in the long run (did any of us, at 17?).

Recognizes the need to graduate from a school that will ensure her employment marketability.

After 3 years in the US, is increasingly homesick.

What about trade schools vs. universities? Are there such options in Thailand and how do they compare for post-graduation employment and salary?

3 years in beautiful Santa Barbara and a thai teenager is homesick and wants to go back?! I'd have thought she'd want to stay in the US as long as possible . I agree with the post below that a practical science degree is definitely the way to go, probably true for thailand as well as most students don't have the discipline for it. My brothers had similar job opportunities in engineering to the one below after just 4 years. the 7 year law school route i took is really a drag and (100k debt) expensive, 5 years ago when i was 17 I didn't think i'd be in this situation. Like others have said, I think she'd do herself a disservice by going to college in Thailand and not the US, shouldn't make decisions like that just based on homesickness . Has she taken the SAT?

One of my Thai-American daughters graduated from a University in the US with a degree in Microbiology. It took her a while to get that degree as she had a lot of fun in college. She has been working as a clinical research associate working with teams developing new drugs for the last 5 years since graduating and earns more than $75K U.S. per year plus benefits and and all the luxury travel and airline and other travel benefits she can stand. To me, good jobs depend more on the industry you chose to work in rather than the college degree you have.

Accounting firms and government accounting managers seem to be experts at working their staff long hours and underpaying their staff because they are such "budget experts" and "smart managers". If she is being underpaid it may be the employer/industry rather than the source of her degree. Who pays well in the U.S.? ....pharmaceutical companies, investment funds, oil & gas companies, some utilities and defense contractors. Of course there are exceptions and others that people could suggest.

[AlKing]

You cannot simply compare Durian with Apple. Or Somtam with Burger. Both are unique in their own ways.

[legendarysurfer]

3 years in beautiful Santa Barbara and a thai teenager is homesick and wants to go back?! I'd have thought she'd want to stay in the US as long as possible . I agree with the post below that a practical science degree is definitely the way to go, probably true for thailand as well as most students don't have the discipline for it. My brothers had similar job opportunities in engineering to the one below after just 4 years. the 7 year law school route i took is really a drag and (100k debt) expensive, 5 years ago when i was 17 I didn't think i'd be in this situation. Like others have said, I think she'd do herself a disservice by going to college in Thailand and not the US, shouldn't make decisions like that just based on homesickness . Has she taken the SAT?

One of my Thai-American daughters graduated from a University in the US with a degree in Microbiology. It took her a while to get that degree as she had a lot of fun in college. She has been working as a clinical research associate working with teams developing new drugs for the last 5 years since graduating and earns more than $75K U.S. per year plus benefits and and all the luxury travel and airline and other travel benefits she can stand. To me, good jobs depend more on the industry you chose to work in rather than the college degree you have.

You cannot simply compare Durian with Apple. Or Somtam with Burger. Both are unique in their own ways.

When we brought her over three years ago, one of my biggest fears was that she would become too Americanized. I feel fortunate that hasn't happened. I'm proud that she has maintained a sense of cultural identity... Sure, Santa Barbara is beautiful and the people here are more worldly wise than in most other parts of the USA, but they are not nearly as friendly as Isaan people... She has taken practice/simulated SAT exams in preparation for taking it this Spring. She has not done as well as I imagined she would, given her solid A grades for the past three years. Total score of 1320...

[Svenn]

She has taken practice/simulated SAT exams in preparation for taking it this Spring. She has not done as well as I imagined she would, given her solid A grades for the past three years. Total score of 1320...

That's a really good score! that could easily get her into most of the UC's right? Those schools are so huge and have so many departments, she could definitely get a specific technical degree with good job opportunities. Here's another thought, why doesn't she go to a UC but study abroad in Thailand for a year or more to get the best of both worlds? That's sort of what I've been doing, spent last summer at the Khmer Rouge trials in phnom penh, will spend this spring in beijing. I also bet the UC's would have big Thai organizations too, so she could probably go through most of her days without having to speak a word of english, if ur scared of her becoming americanized.

[Gary A]

I have lost a lot of respect for US Universities and most schools in the past few years. In the US, you have university graduates who excelled in athletics but who are functionally illiterate. When I was young, you had to pass the end of the year tests to graduate. No way you would ever graduate from high school if you couldn't read and write.

[citizen33]

. Here's another thought, why doesn't she go to a UC but study abroad in Thailand for a year or more to get the best of both worlds? That's sort of what I've been doing, spent last summer at the Khmer Rouge trials in phnom penh, will spend this spring in beijing. I also bet the UC's would have big Thai organizations too, so she could probably go through most of her days without having to speak a word of english, if ur scared of her becoming americanized.

This is probably not viable for a technical subject (even a law degree) on my side of the Atlantic, but there are one or two UK universities that now offer a degree which involves time in Thailand. Thai Studies at Leeds University is one example.

http://eas.leeds.ac.uk/htdocs/eas/eas_content/home/home.asp

The students spend a year in CM and much of the course is taught in Thai. I mention this mainly as a curiosity, because the pay-off for a native Thai speaker is going to be limited unless, say, it is a springboard to postgraduate studies in political science. I expect there are similar schemes in the US.

Edited October 30, 2008 by citizen33

[viciouskitty74]

I will say do the tertiary education in USA and seek jobs outside of Thailand.

The family has a secretary that is educated at Phuket University with a degree in english.

her current pay is 6800 baht per month after working for 8 years or so.

Now I am only a secretary with 'o' levels in Singapore. My Salary is rouhgly 66000 baht per month when converted from Sg dollars.

Nobody from Thailand will offer to pay so much for a lowly educated secretary.

But the probablity of one taking education from USA should find oneself more marketable then just for a thailand market.

[phibunmike]

O, and isn't it kinda cheating to say she's trilingual? Lao is just the scruffy-sidekick slackjaw of Thai, I thought they were mutually intelligable?

Bor.