Promptness Is A Big 'mai Pen Rai' For Thais

[brahmburgers]

A year or so ago, I read about several Thai college students who were studying to be journalists. A major segment of the university course required them to interview politicians and businesspeople in Bangkok. Each student made several appointments.

Some interviewees were very late (more than an hour and a half) - whereas most didn't show at all. After repeated no-shows, the students got discouraged. All dropped out of the course.

Anyone with experience in Thailand can relate to being stood up: Indeed, people who are no-shows, often don't give any prior notice. Some slags to call within minutes of the meeting time - to say they can't make it - even though they've known for awhile that they won't make it. Also common; the other person won't call or answer the phone. More likely to happen with dates, but can happen with any slaggard.

Lessons to be learned if arranging to meeting a Thai person:

>>>>> Don't be prompt unless you don't mind hanging by yourself for awhile - possibly over 40 minutes, if the other shows at all.

>>>>> Meet at a comfortable place, like a coffee shop. If you meet at a place like a street corner, don't be surprised if you're stuck breathing smog and beset by loud traffic noise for as long as you can stick it out.

>>>> Call the other person before you set out for the meeting place. If no answer, it's a tough decision. Perhaps leave a text message and/or take a chance. Odds are about 50-50.

>>>> Set parameters for what you'll tolerate. Even if you're applying for a job, let the other person know how much tardiness you'll tolerate, and stick to it. In other words, if you arrange to meet at noon, the person calls at 12:08 and says, "sorry, I got sidelined, but I'll be there in five minutes." You can say, "OK, I'll wait until twenty past, but then, I'm off to do other things." And stick with it.

.....Some things become evident when you hear "just 5 minutes":

1. The other person didn't plan well enough 2. they don't give much value to meeting you

3. They don't give much value to your time. 4. It's never 5 minutes - but usually more like 10 to 45 minutes.

The Thai word for prompt is 'trong trong' (literally: straight straight) .....use it and stick with it.

Edited October 25, 2008 by brahmburgers

[Merlin]

in my experience "5 minutes" can mean anything from 30 minutes to 5 hours.

It's NEVER 5 minutes...

[sabaijai]

The Thai slackness for punctuality suits me well as I'm usually even later than most Thais.

BTW the phrase for 'on time' is trong way-laa

[toptuan]

The OP's post is excellent advice. I always take a magazine with me to appointments, and usually get a lot of reading done while waiting for my late Thai friends and associates. It takes the edge off a bit.

It's interesting to note how serious Thais can be about being on time depending on how high the stakes are.

Examples:

1) In my university classes I have a policy that one's grade starts going down after four "lates." Nearly every single student pushes it right up to the limit, early in the term. After that, on-time, perfect attendance!

2) Nahorn Chai Air buses leave right on time 99% of the time. Interesting how 99.99% of the time, on the busy Khon Kaen to BKK route, passengers show up on time and the bus is full. Same with the night train from BKK to Nong Khai--seldom is there a vacant berth due to latecomers who missed the train.

Given the right leverage, Thais know how to perform in the punctuality arena. "Leverage" is the key.

[yabaaaa]

I'd just call it selfish and idle meself, you can tart it up however u like. Maybe can expect it to a degree in Nakon Nowehere where they may not have clocks but hang on they all have phones??

[G54]

Or, as I usually tell them, half jokingly but seriously, is that I work on Farang time and that 8 p.m. is 8 p.m. and not 8-30 p.m.

In most cases it works fine especially if I have moved on to a different place by the time they do arrive and they have to phone to find out where I am now and they know next time I mean Farang time

[brahmburgers]

The Thai slackness for punctuality suits me well as I'm usually even later than most Thais.

BTW the phrase for 'on time' is trong way-laa

That's a stone drag if you're also unreliable - then if you make an appointment for 8 pm, the Thai person may show up at 8:34 and you may show up at 8: 52 I'm glad you're not meeting with me.

I used to arrange band practices for music groups I was associated with. Besides setting up the meetings (always a minimum of two calls per band member) - they were always late. Guys arriving between 15 and 100 minutes late. Quite annoying. It goes without saying that farang can be about as rude about promptness as Asians or Latinos.

Here's another dynamic about promptness: If you're paying back a loan (or any sort of payment) it's guaranteed the Thai person will be right on time (ok, maybe 5 to 10 minutes late which, for them, is the same as 'right on time.)

But if they're the one paying back a loan to you, then take a tent and a cookstove, as they could be around an hour late - if they arrive at all.[/b]

[jdinasia]

Your topics in recent history

Thais are too late

Americans are too fat and Thais pollute

Airport too "artsy" Thais waste $$

Wood too expensive

Personally my experiences in dealing with people here are that they tend to be relatively prompt. Could be the difference in the type of people we deal with.

[GungaDin]

I never make appointments with Thais, male or female.

I have found only expats keep in touch by mobile if running late, it's just good manners.

At first I couldn't understand why BGs & cafe staff got fined for being late at the bar------- now I do

[geriatrickid]

Guilty as charged. I am often running late. My Thai friends are on time. I have an inability of judging the time needed to get somewhere. Sorry.

[jkinbkk]

The most classic experience of mine relating to this issues was some 10 years ago when I had a meeting arranged with a work colleague for 6pm on a Tuesday.

This meeting had been confirmed the Thursday of the previous week.

I had already arrived at the restaurant in Siam Square by 5.45 and was accustomed already to the 30-40 minute delay for Thai colleagues.

However, by 6.30 I did call him to establish how much longer he might be?

He told me that we was stuck in traffic on Sukhumvit and should be turning into Rama 4 soon (made sense as it was rush hour and the BTS was under construction at that time along Sukhumvit)

Another 30 minutes passed, I called him again. "nearly there but the traffic is bad!"

Then 7.30 I called again "still bad traffic, dont know why it's so bad on Rama 4 tonight?"

At 8.15 I called again...no answer!

8.30....no answer!

9pm...no answer!

I then was pretty fed up and went home at 9.30

The next day I went to this guys office to enquire what had happened as I was somewhat concerned that he did not answer his phone the previous evening.

I was informed by his assistant that the guy had left for Chiang Mai Monday afternoon for an unexpected meeting and would not be back before Friday!

Therefore this business about traffic on Sukhumvit and Rama 4 on the Tuesday night was being relayed to me by the guy who was somewhere in Chiang Mai at that moment!....you figure the logic behind that?

[dave111223]

I have often arranged a meal with a Thai friend only to have them not show up at all/call and not even answer their phone. Then give some phony excuse after the fact.

I don't mind phony excuses too much, but at least call and give your phony excuse prior to the event.

[barky]

I absolutely agree with the OP. Anybody who has lived in Thailand for a while should know exactly what the OP is on about.

This happened to me a few times in the past, but thesedays I rarely allow Thai people to disrespect me and my time like this.

I will give you two very recent examples:

1. About two weeks ago I made arrangements to meet someone at the BTS station at Siam. As usual I got to the place about 7-8 minutes early (old habbits are hard to break). Fifteen minutes after the scheduled meeting time, I called the other party. Where are you? I asked At MBK, was the answer (no sorry or I'm coming quickly). So, I walked away to have lunch and do some shopping. twenty minutes later (by now some 40 minutes past original meet time) the person asked Where are you, I'm waiting fro you? I said F***O** .

2. Two days ago, a supplier made an arrangement to meet me at 2pm at site being renovated. Of course I got there just before time, and after a couple of phone calls from me and having to listen to his lies on his location and ETA , I called it quits. On the way out of the building (50 minutes after schuled time) he arrived and I passed him in the lobby. He had a big smile and looked eager , but I just walked past him as if he wasn't there. He follwed me for a few yards mumbling something, I just said "bai loei" and went on my way.

I won't allow these people to treat me in this fashion. As the OP said, I usually try to put in as many preventative measures as I can to try to ensure my time is not wasted by these a**h****.

[barky]

The most classic experience of mine relating to this issues was some 10 years ago when I had a meeting arranged with a work colleague for 6pm on a Tuesday.

This meeting had been confirmed the Thursday of the previous week.

I had already arrived at the restaurant in Siam Square by 5.45 and was accustomed already to the 30-40 minute delay for Thai colleagues.

However, by 6.30 I did call him to establish how much longer he might be?

He told me that we was stuck in traffic on Sukhumvit and should be turning into Rama 4 soon (made sense as it was rush hour and the BTS was under construction at that time along Sukhumvit)

Another 30 minutes passed, I called him again. "nearly there but the traffic is bad!"

Then 7.30 I called again "still bad traffic, dont know why it's so bad on Rama 4 tonight?"

At 8.15 I called again...no answer!

8.30....no answer!

9pm...no answer!

I then was pretty fed up and went home at 9.30

The next day I went to this guys office to enquire what had happened as I was somewhat concerned that he did not answer his phone the previous evening.

I was informed by his assistant that the guy had left for Chiang Mai Monday afternoon for an unexpected meeting and would not be back before Friday!

Therefore this business about traffic on Sukhumvit and Rama 4 on the Tuesday night was being relayed to me by the guy who was somewhere in Chiang Mai at that moment!....you figure the logic behind that?

It's not logic. It's a far too typical rotten lie.

[torrenova]

I absolutely agree with the OP. Anybody who has lived in Thailand for a while should know exactly what the OP is on about.

This happened to me a few times in the past, but thesedays I rarely allow Thai people to disrespect me and my time like this.

I will give you two very recent examples:

1. About two weeks ago I made arrangements to meet someone at the BTS station at Siam. As usual I got to the place about 7-8 minutes early (old habbits are hard to break). Fifteen minutes after the scheduled meeting time, I called the other party. Where are you? I asked At MBK, was the answer (no sorry or I'm coming quickly). So, I walked away to have lunch and do some shopping. twenty minutes later (by now some 40 minutes past original meet time) the person asked Where are you, I'm waiting fro you? I said F***O** .

2. Two days ago, a supplier made an arrangement to meet me at 2pm at site being renovated. Of course I got there just before time, and after a couple of phone calls from me and having to listen to his lies on his location and ETA , I called it quits. On the way out of the building (50 minutes after schuled time) he arrived and I passed him in the lobby. He had a big smile and looked eager , but I just walked past him as if he wasn't there. He follwed me for a few yards mumbling something, I just said "bai loei" and went on my way.

I won't allow these people to treat me in this fashion. As the OP said, I usually try to put in as many preventative measures as I can to try to ensure my time is not wasted by these a**h****.

I must admit that the tardiness of some Thais with regard to punctuality, even when it is to their advantage, sometimes rubs me up the wrong way. What I will not accept is blatant lies such as the post above about the guy being in Chiang Mai and saying he was stuck in traffic on Rama 4.

I do make allowances no occasion but I cannot just bend over to get shafted by them because they fail to show me any respect. In fact, I lose respect from westerners who try too much to "go local" and start making excuses for Thais (or anyone else). Years ago I could somewhat understand. In the age of mobile phones, it is not acceptable. Just a call to inform you of the situation is just courteous. Some westerners forget that when dealing with Thais it is usually to their benefit and the least they can do is to respect some of our ways.

[TAWP]

It has happened a lot to most of us I think.

If one is from a country where people start cursing when the bus is 2 minutes late (as I am) it's very hard not to notice when people starts showing up...hours late. When the carefully prepared food for a couples dinner is slowly being drained of it's taste due to being 2-3h past it's prime... or performing interviews of applicants for a job position and having 30% not show up, 60% be late and 5% cancel minutes before.

So the trick is to do continuous follow-ups. Call them before the meeting and verify. Say you have other appointments. Works better when one has something they want, as in the case of them being a supplier or such. But even then it's never a guarantee.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thais are not much more tardy than Nicaraguans and Mexicans, in my experience. When you live in a culture that had no clocks or wrist watches for peasants before 1995, what do you expect?

I do not have the same problems as many of the posters here. Maybe I deal with Thais who meet me part-way on these things, Maybe I deal with Thais who realize I walk away after ten minutes of tardiness. At uni, we walked out of class if the junior professor was over ten minutes tardy.

[werbs]

lateness is one of my pet hates, if someone is late to meet me then i make sure they know i am annoyed at their lack of respect for my time, to me if i am not t least 15 minutes early then ifeel like i am late.

there is a saying, if you are late to meet someone, you may as well just spit in their face as you are showing them the same level of respect

[girlx]

i am always on time or early, but it is my farang friends who are usually late rather than the thais...

[jdinasia]

I have 2 observations after seeing the posts here ....

1) I deal with a different sub-set of Thais and find the gross generalizations bigoted

2) There seem to be a large number of farang with adjustment issues

2)-sub1 -- Contractors are the same the world -over!

[desi]

Therefore this business about traffic on Sukhumvit and Rama 4 on the Tuesday night was being relayed to me by the guy who was somewhere in Chiang Mai at that moment!....you figure the logic behind that?

In my experience, that's not Thai, it's SE Asian.

I was working as a designer in Borneo. A Malaysian Chinese printer won the bid on a weekend exhibition I designed. Come Saturday, part of the order had not arrived so the client called me. I, of course, called the printer.

"where are you?" says I...

"I'm at the Xxxx stop light, be there in ten minutes" says he...

So I called the client to say he'll be right there.

An hour later, the client calls to say he never showed and the exhibition is open and people are lining up and they are stressing out.

So I call the printer.

"where are you?" says I...

"I'm the XXx room with your order, where are you?" says he frantically. Like, maybe we've switched the venue on him.

I explain, again, where the exhibition is being held (granted, in the large exhibition building it was easy to get lost).

He says he'll be right there, so I again call the client.

Variations of this went on all day until the client and I gave up.

Sunday, the product was delivered.

And where was he the whole time? In Singapore.

Did I use him again? Sure. Constantly. And for several reasons.

Number one, he was the best printer in town (but he did have a problem saying no).

Number two, the client waited until way past the set deadline to approve the job for print. This meant the printer had people hand folding around the clock to even make it by Sunday. People he had to pay extra. And because of this, I'm sure he felt that he owed no explanation to the client at all.

And me? Well, we still laugh about it.

(and I have more stories just as hilarious)

[PattayaParent]

Always arrange to meet in a pub / bar.

That way you get pissed up as well as pissed off if someone's late.

[473geo]

So somebody runs a bit late......slow down guys get a life.....it is inconvenient.....not the end of the world.......

Oh and if you require respect.......I doubt you'll get it continually critisising the people YOU chose to live among....

[473geo]

Always arrange to meet in a pub / bar.

That way you get pissed up as well as pissed off if someone's late.

Spot on make the best of a bad situation.....

[werbs]

So somebody runs a bit late......slow down guys get a life.....it is inconvenient.....not the end of the world.......

Oh and if you require respect.......I doubt you'll get it continually critisising the people YOU chose to live among....

possibly aimed at me, but do yourself a favour and actually read my post, at no point do i mention any particular race, nationality or group of people, it annoys me wherever i am in the world, i am very respectful when dealing with people, unless they choose to be late. my attitude mirrors the person i am dealing with, however nothing annoys me more than holier than thou attitudes and 'oh look at me, i have adjusted to everything' attitudes of some posters on here.

i dont think i have read a thread on here yet without someone constantly feeling the need to defend thais and berate people who have the nerve to give an opinion.

the biggest <deleted> on here is when people try and compare Thailand to somewhere else to try and justify thailand, i don't know if you noticed this is a thai forum where we discuss thailand, so what if the problems are the same as elsewhere, i couldnt give a shiny <deleted> if people drive bad in south america, i dont live there.

lets just accept that everything is not rosy here and accept its a thai forum where people can discuss issues relating to them or thailand.

The fact is, however many people on here want to counter it that more often than not a thai will be late, whether its a contractor or a friend, i even had the majority of thais coming for an interview late.

ok rant over

[Samuian]

So somebody runs a bit late......slow down guys get a life.....it is inconvenient.....not the end of the world.......

Oh and if you require respect.......I doubt you'll get it continually critisising the people YOU chose to live among....

Well, it may start somewhere with 5 Minutes, ah well you waited that long, give it another 30 Min. it takes all but 45.. so lets take this further you go to a restaurant and order..... and you get a quarter of the serve and the beer is luke warm... take a taxi he insists to have double, triple the usual fare in advance because he doesn't trust you have the money.... and then gets you out half way... well... doesn't matter, don't criticize get used to it?

You board a plane 20 Minutes after the departure time you see the captain slightly drunk, jumping off a service car and about to enter the aircraft... mai pen rai?

It's sluggishness, disrespectful, there is no reason in the entire universe why this should be condoned in any way, nothing to do with wristwatches, nationality or race... there is no excuse, cause the other one has to agree to a certain meeting time, it's like a contract, an agreement it should be honored - if not I draw my conclusion about the worthiness of the association with the partner or the person the meeting is concerned about!

Simple as that!

[njpski]

I have 2 observations after seeing the posts here ....

1) I deal with a different sub-set of Thais and find the gross generalizations bigoted

2) There seem to be a large number of farang with adjustment issues

2)-sub1 -- Contractors are the same the world -over!

I agree

The OP and supporters may benefit from remembering the concept of face - being slightly late causes immense pain and thus the pain needs to be mitigated by avoding the situation

Contractors especially of the telephone and electricity varieties expect the customer to devote the whole day to wait for them (this happens all the time in the (now) third world country of Australia)

[DeeMaiDee]

A year or so ago, I read about several Thai college students who were studying to be journalists. A major segment of the university course required them to interview politicians and businesspeople in Bangkok. Each student made several appointments.

Some interviewees were very late (more than an hour and a half) - whereas most didn't show at all. After repeated no-shows, the students got discouraged. All dropped out of the course.

Anyone with experience in Thailand can relate to being stood up: Indeed, people who are no-shows, often don't give any prior notice. Some slags to call within minutes of the meeting time - to say they can't make it - even though they've known for awhile that they won't make it. Also common; the other person won't call or answer the phone. More likely to happen with dates, but can happen with any slaggard.

Lessons to be learned if arranging to meeting a Thai person:

>>>>> Don't be prompt unless you don't mind hanging by yourself for awhile - possibly over 40 minutes, if the other shows at all.

>>>>> Meet at a comfortable place, like a coffee shop. If you meet at a place like a street corner, don't be surprised if you're stuck breathing smog and beset by loud traffic noise for as long as you can stick it out.

>>>> Call the other person before you set out for the meeting place. If no answer, it's a tough decision. Perhaps leave a text message and/or take a chance. Odds are about 50-50.

>>>> Set parameters for what you'll tolerate. Even if you're applying for a job, let the other person know how much tardiness you'll tolerate, and stick to it. In other words, if you arrange to meet at noon, the person calls at 12:08 and says, "sorry, I got sidelined, but I'll be there in five minutes." You can say, "OK, I'll wait until twenty past, but then, I'm off to do other things." And stick with it.

.....Some things become evident when you hear "just 5 minutes":

1. The other person didn't plan well enough 2. they don't give much value to meeting you

3. They don't give much value to your time. 4. It's never 5 minutes - but usually more like 10 to 45 minutes.

The Thai word for prompt is 'trong trong' (literally: straight straight) .....use it and stick with it.

I always figured puctuality here depended on the prize?

[bruceboy]

I grew up with the saying 'if your on time, your late'.

[eek]

The only element of Thai timing that frustrates me is when, after my partner makes arrangements (especially if for something important) that even though, for the most part, ive learnt to disregard the time factor and do my own thing until he says "ok, lets go", IF i say (after much time has passed) "I thought we were going to go and [insert whatever]",I get accused of being "jai ron". Some days I really have to bite my lip on that one.