Is Singapore That Expensive?

[klikster]

I have a page or two about Singapore on a website .. writing about it favorably as a possible place for retirement. I realize it is not Thailand or Laos, or ..

But for city people who want the kind of lifestyle, that Singapore offers, it would seem to be a reasonable place.

Not too long ago, an Irish chap took severe exception to my even suggesting Singapore was priced reasonably enough for mortals or anyone " .. other than a Sterling millionaire."

Of course, he was also trying to peddle "fully legal" houses in Phuket based on "legal because his law firm said so" 30+30+30 leases and land owned by "companies registered offshore".

But is Singapore strictly for richies?

[Jingthing]

I am not aware of any kind of retirement visa for Singapore. They want expats to work. You might consider Malaysia, similar food anyway, and they have a formal retirement visa that provides alot more security than Thailands; however the application process is more onerous.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Jingthing

[OriginalPoster]

I am not aware of any kind of retirement visa for Singapore. They want expats to work. You might consider Malaysia, similar food anyway, and they have a formal retirement visa that provides alot more security than Thailands; however the application process is more onerous.

I checked into it a little bit because I am working in Singapore now and getting to be old enough to start thinking about retirement. If you are over 50 years old, a foreign national can retire to Singapore if you are prepared to invest S$1,000,000 in the country. If you are less than 50, there's an additonal option in the sense that it's pretty easy to get an Employment Pass to work in Singapore, and after working there for awhile you can apply to become a Permananet Resident. The PR needs to be granted before you are 50 though. It looks as if once you have PR status, you could quite your job if you wanted to and still remain in Singapore without needing to in invest S$1M.

Edited October 27, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[Jingthing]

S 1 million quite a bit for most to invest for most, so your Phuket man was right!

[klikster]

I am not aware of any kind of retirement visa for Singapore. They want expats to work. You might consider Malaysia, similar food anyway, and they have a formal retirement visa that provides alot more security than Thailands; however the application process is more onerous.

It's not for me .. I'm not a city type. This is strictly an informational query.

[klikster]

S 1 million quite a bit for most to invest for most, so your Phuket man was right!

Well, he wasn't right about the "legal" 30+30+30 year lease on land in Thailand .. so anything else he claimed is subject to skepticism, as far as I'm concerned.

Edited October 27, 2008 by klikster

[klikster]

I checked into it a little bit because I am working in Singapore now and getting to be old enough to start thinking about retirement. If you are over 50 years old, a foreign national can retire to Singapore if you are prepared to invest S$1,000,000 in the country. If you are less than 50, there's an additonal option in the sense that it's pretty easy to get an Employment Pass to work in Singapore, and after working there for awhile you can apply to become a Permananet Resident. The PR needs to be granted before you are 50 though. It looks as if once you have PR status, you could quite your job if you wanted to and still remain in Singapore without needing to in invest S$1M.

How do they feel about visa runners?

[OriginalPoster]

I have a page or two about Singapore on a website .. writing about it favorably as a possible place for retirement. I realize it is not Thailand or Laos, or ..

But for city people who want the kind of lifestyle, that Singapore offers, it would seem to be a reasonable place.

Not too long ago, an Irish chap took severe exception to my even suggesting Singapore was priced reasonably enough for mortals or anyone " .. other than a Sterling millionaire."

Of course, he was also trying to peddle "fully legal" houses in Phuket based on "legal because his law firm said so" 30+30+30 leases and land owned by "companies registered offshore".

But is Singapore strictly for richies?

The Irish chap is probably correct that you'd need to be a Sterling millionaire if you will be retiring at a fairly young age. What's expensive is rent and automobiles; if you're a barfly, that's going to be really expensive too. However I find that I have no need for an automobile when living so being forced to not have a car saves me money compared to many other places; the rent is the real killer. I'm finding that overall my monthly expenses are about the same as what it was costing me to live in rural Pennsylvania if (which was the last place I lived prior to Singapore) if that reference is meaningful to you, it's just that the money gets spent on different things. So I guess what it boils down to is that if you have enough money to retire to a locale in the US where costs are near the national average, you'd also have enough money to retire in Singapore.

Edited October 27, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[OriginalPoster]

I checked into it a little bit because I am working in Singapore now and getting to be old enough to start thinking about retirement. If you are over 50 years old, a foreign national can retire to Singapore if you are prepared to invest S$1,000,000 in the country. If you are less than 50, there's an additonal option in the sense that it's pretty easy to get an Employment Pass to work in Singapore, and after working there for awhile you can apply to become a Permananet Resident. The PR needs to be granted before you are 50 though. It looks as if once you have PR status, you could quite your job if you wanted to and still remain in Singapore without needing to in invest S$1M.

How do they feel about visa runners?

I'm not really sure because I have an Employment Pass right now. I think that the problem is that they normally only stamp you for 2 weeks when you arrive without a pre-arranged visa. Years ago I was visiting on a 2 week visa-on-arrival and renewed it by going across the Causeway to JB for lunch and then going back to Singapore and it didn't raise any eyebrows. However I don't know what would happen if you tried to do that 26 times per year.

Edited October 27, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[Jingthing]

I am not aware of any kind of retirement visa for Singapore. They want expats to work. You might consider Malaysia, similar food anyway, and they have a formal retirement visa that provides alot more security than Thailands; however the application process is more onerous.

It's not for me .. I'm not a city type. This is strictly an informational query.

I find your comment odd. Singapore is a small CITY state nation. Malaysia is rather a large nation with the usual mix of cities and country. Whatever ...

I presume Singapore wouldn't welcome visa runners. The problems would probably occur at the level of living, bank accounts, housing, utilities, etc. ...

Just guessing based on the type of government they have there, very regulated and in control. There are Singapore expat forums where you could probably get the skinny on passport stamp enforcement.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Jingthing

[vinniedisa]

So, putting numbers to make it easier to compare with Thailand, How much would one expect to spend in Singapore, to live the same lifestyle of a ~70k baht/month in Thailand (BKK)? I would assume at least twice as much?

Edited October 27, 2008 by vinniedisa

[OriginalPoster]

So, putting numbers to make it easier to compare with Thailand, How much would one expect to spend in Singapore, to live the same lifestyle of a ~70k baht/month in Thailand (BKK)? I would assume at least twice as much?

Offhand I'd say that 2X is a pretty good estimate but it depends upon a lot of factors, such as excatly where in Thailand (or Bangkok) you'd be living and upon what types of things you spend your money on. Also, you won't truly be living the same lifestyle in either place, as Singapore is a developed country and Thailand is different than that.

Edited October 27, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[Captain Chaos]

So, putting numbers to make it easier to compare with Thailand, How much would one expect to spend in Singapore, to live the same lifestyle of a ~70k baht/month in Thailand (BKK)? I would assume at least twice as much?

Offhand I'd say that 2X is a pretty good estimate but it depends upon a lot of factors, such as excatly where in Thailand (or Bangkok) you'd be living and upon what types of things you spend your money on. Also, you won't truly be living the same lifestyle in either place, as Singapore is a developed country and Thailand is different than that.

Yes, I would also agree but I think 2X is the bottom of the range (still only about S$6k / month which isn't that much here) - rent is (or at least has been - market is coming off now) the real killer compared to living in Thailand - for example I pay about S$2.5k / month for a modest one bedroom apartment (although it is very new) - that's say Bt 50k which would get you a top of the range place in BKK. I estimate my outgoings at about S$9k / month so more like 3X the figure you were talking about.

The good news is that, for those in employment, tax rates are very low here - I pay a third what I did when working in Thailand so it can definitely still be a place to save plenty of cash.

Of course, it's all horses for courses - I know people who spend much less than I do but they may rent an HDB apartment and/or share with others...

Personally, I wouldn't want to retire in SG but I had already heard about the 'retirement visa' option and it does seem like the SG govt is now keen to get well heeled retirees into the country. Goes with the attempt to make it into an offshore financial centre I suppose.

CC

[klikster]

I am not aware of any kind of retirement visa for Singapore. They want expats to work. You might consider Malaysia, similar food anyway, and they have a formal retirement visa that provides alot more security than Thailands; however the application process is more onerous.

It's not for me .. I'm not a city type. This is strictly an informational query.

I find your comment odd. Singapore is a small CITY state nation. Malaysia is rather a large nation with the usual mix of cities and country. Whatever ...

I don't know why you find my comment odd. Some people are "city" folks, other prefer more of an urban or even rural lifestyle. I happen to be the latter. I doubt if there are many places in the ".. CITY or state nation." that resemble Chiang Rai or Ban Krut .. the 2 places where I have spent the greatest amount of my 12 years here in Thailand.

You seem determined to tell me things I don't want to know .. but maybe someone else will benefit from your um .. research?

Edited October 28, 2008 by klikster

[klikster]

I have a page or two about Singapore on a website .. writing about it favorably as a possible place for retirement. I realize it is not Thailand or Laos, or ..

But for city people who want the kind of lifestyle, that Singapore offers, it would seem to be a reasonable place.

Not too long ago, an Irish chap took severe exception to my even suggesting Singapore was priced reasonably enough for mortals or anyone " .. other than a Sterling millionaire."

Of course, he was also trying to peddle "fully legal" houses in Phuket based on "legal because his law firm said so" 30+30+30 leases and land owned by "companies registered offshore".

But is Singapore strictly for richies?

The Irish chap is probably correct that you'd need to be a Sterling millionaire if you will be retiring at a fairly young age. What's expensive is rent and automobiles; if you're a barfly, that's going to be really expensive too. However I find that I have no need for an automobile when living so being forced to not have a car saves me money compared to many other places; the rent is the real killer. I'm finding that overall my monthly expenses are about the same as what it was costing me to live in rural Pennsylvania if (which was the last place I lived prior to Singapore) if that reference is meaningful to you, it's just that the money gets spent on different things. So I guess what it boils down to is that if you have enough money to retire to a locale in the US where costs are near the national average, you'd also have enough money to retire in Singapore.

Actually, I spent a little time in Lehigh Valley .. and would kill for a corned beef or pastrami on black bread sandwich from Shankweiler's(sp) Inn.

[OriginalPoster]

I have a page or two about Singapore on a website .. writing about it favorably as a possible place for retirement. I realize it is not Thailand or Laos, or ..

But for city people who want the kind of lifestyle, that Singapore offers, it would seem to be a reasonable place.

Not too long ago, an Irish chap took severe exception to my even suggesting Singapore was priced reasonably enough for mortals or anyone " .. other than a Sterling millionaire."

Of course, he was also trying to peddle "fully legal" houses in Phuket based on "legal because his law firm said so" 30+30+30 leases and land owned by "companies registered offshore".

But is Singapore strictly for richies?

The Irish chap is probably correct that you'd need to be a Sterling millionaire if you will be retiring at a fairly young age. What's expensive is rent and automobiles; if you're a barfly, that's going to be really expensive too. However I find that I have no need for an automobile when living so being forced to not have a car saves me money compared to many other places; the rent is the real killer. I'm finding that overall my monthly expenses are about the same as what it was costing me to live in rural Pennsylvania if (which was the last place I lived prior to Singapore) if that reference is meaningful to you, it's just that the money gets spent on different things. So I guess what it boils down to is that if you have enough money to retire to a locale in the US where costs are near the national average, you'd also have enough money to retire in Singapore.

Actually, I spent a little time in Lehigh Valley .. and would kill for a corned beef or pastrami on black bread sandwich from Shankweiler's(sp) Inn.

Small world. I spent a number of years working in Allentown; a few years in Reading, PA before that. Took classes at Lehigh University part-time for a while when working in Allentown also. By "rural", I was alluding more to places on par with Kutztown and Macungie than with Allentown -- places where the neighbor's pig is named Arnold and the Town Council spends most their time deliberating over whether a new stop sign should be put up on Sauerkraut Road.

Edited October 28, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[Jingthing]

I don't know why you find my comment odd. Some people are "city" folks, other prefer more of an urban or even rural lifestyle. I happen to be the latter. I doubt if there are many places in the ".. CITY or state nation." that resemble Chiang Rai or Ban Krut .. the 2 places where I have spent the greatest amount of my 12 years here in Thailand.

You seem determined to tell me things I don't want to know .. but maybe someone else will benefit from your um .. research?

I never said I found not being a city person odd. What I meant to convey that I found it odd for a person to seek information about migrating to a small city state, and then say they don't like cities. Whatever!

No worries. I love Singapore, one of the best food CITIES in the world.

Edited October 28, 2008 by Jingthing

[OriginalPoster]

No worries. I love Singapore, one of the best food CITIES in the world.

Indeed it is. And that's for almost every type of food too IMHO.

Edited October 28, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[klikster]

I don't know why you find my comment odd. Some people are "city" folks, other prefer more of an urban or even rural lifestyle. I happen to be the latter. I doubt if there are many places in the ".. CITY or state nation." that resemble Chiang Rai or Ban Krut .. the 2 places where I have spent the greatest amount of my 12 years here in Thailand.

You seem determined to tell me things I don't want to know .. but maybe someone else will benefit from your um .. research?

I never said I found not being a city person odd. What I meant to convey that I found it odd for a person to seek information about migrating to a small city state, and then say they don't like cities. Whatever!

No worries. I love Singapore, one of the best food CITIES in the world.

Maybe if you re-read the first sentence in my OP.

[Jingthing]

Maybe if you re-read the first sentence in my OP.

You're correct. I thought you were talking about yourself. Cheers.

[chickencurry]

I have a page or two about Singapore on a website .. writing about it favorably as a possible place for retirement. I realize it is not Thailand or Laos, or ..

But for city people who want the kind of lifestyle, that Singapore offers, it would seem to be a reasonable place.

Not too long ago, an Irish chap took severe exception to my even suggesting Singapore was priced reasonably enough for mortals or anyone " .. other than a Sterling millionaire."

Of course, he was also trying to peddle "fully legal" houses in Phuket based on "legal because his law firm said so" 30+30+30 leases and land owned by "companies registered offshore".

But is Singapore strictly for richies?

No I don't think it's strictly for richies. We lived there (working) for a while and, while it's not as cheap as Thailand, you can certainly live cheaper than a lot of places including UK.

There is an online assessment tool to see if you can be eligible for PR. If you google PR Singapore online assessment you'll find some links. We tried it and failed miserably They change the rules often and don't tell you what the rules are - so rather difficult to plan for PR. In fact, we found it rather difficult to plan anything in Singapore.

When we were considering retirement options, one thing that bothered us about Singapore is the fact that no building (condos or otherwise) stay in place more than 30 years. So... if you retired at 50, bought a nice little condo, maybe you'd have the daunting possibility of having to move out at age 80 years+. Though I guess nowhere is secure as an expat.

[Edonista]

1 Singha beer 0.33l can in Thailand supermarket: 30baht

same in Singapore Supermarket: 3.35 S$

Live in Thailand, bank in Singapore and your coupons are tax exempt.

Live in Singapore and you lose your tax exemption.

[Edonista]

I love Singapore

A fine city, for sure

(speking of fines, till two years ago oral sex was a criminal offence, I wonder how the laws are about homosexual acts )

[Naam]

I am not aware of any kind of retirement visa for Singapore. They want expats to work. You might consider Malaysia, similar food anyway, and they have a formal retirement visa that provides alot more security than Thailands; however the application process is more onerous.

I checked into it a little bit because I am working in Singapore now and getting to be old enough to start thinking about retirement. If you are over 50 years old, a foreign national can retire to Singapore if you are prepared to invest S$1,000,000 in the country. If you are less than 50, there's an additonal option in the sense that it's pretty easy to get an Employment Pass to work in Singapore, and after working there for awhile you can apply to become a Permananet Resident. The PR needs to be granted before you are 50 though. It looks as if once you have PR status, you could quite your job if you wanted to and still remain in Singapore without needing to in invest S$1M.

you checked a little bit but not enough. no such thing like getting a residence permit in SIN for an investment of a mere SGD 1mm. the stakes are much higher, i.e. buy for SGD 2.5 million a shitty house on Sentosa Island or have SGD 5 million blocked in a Singapore bank for five years. on top of that prove that your net worth is a minimum of 20 million Singapore Dollars

p.s. no such thing like minimum age and no such thing like retirement visa!

[Naam]

1 Singha beer 0.33l can in Thailand supermarket: 30baht

same in Singapore Supermarket: 3.35 S$

Live in Thailand, bank in Singapore and your coupons are tax exempt.

Live in Singapore and you lose your tax exemption.

WRONG! private investors enjoy zero tax (interest and capital gains) since january 1st, 2004.

[Naam]

Under the scheme, you can choose either of the following investment options:

Invest at least S$1 million in a new business startup or expansion of an existing business operation or

Invest at least $1.5 million in a new business startup, expansion of an existing operation, approved Singapore-incorporated venture capital fund or Singapore-incorporated foundation or trust that focuses on economic development or

Invest at least $2 million in a new business startup, expansion of an existing operation, approved Singapore-incorporated venture capital fund or Singapore-incorporated foundation or trust that focuses on economic development. Residential property can be purchased with not more than 50% of the investment amount.

Key criteria for Singapore permanent residence application through the investment scheme includes:

Have a business track record

Have an entrepreneurial background

Have a business proposal or investment plan

[OriginalPoster]

I am not aware of any kind of retirement visa for Singapore. They want expats to work. You might consider Malaysia, similar food anyway, and they have a formal retirement visa that provides alot more security than Thailands; however the application process is more onerous.

I checked into it a little bit because I am working in Singapore now and getting to be old enough to start thinking about retirement. If you are over 50 years old, a foreign national can retire to Singapore if you are prepared to invest S$1,000,000 in the country. If you are less than 50, there's an additonal option in the sense that it's pretty easy to get an Employment Pass to work in Singapore, and after working there for awhile you can apply to become a Permananet Resident. The PR needs to be granted before you are 50 though. It looks as if once you have PR status, you could quite your job if you wanted to and still remain in Singapore without needing to in invest S$1M.

you checked a little bit but not enough. no such thing like getting a residence permit in SIN for an investment of a mere SGD 1mm. the stakes are much higher, i.e. buy for SGD 2.5 million a shitty house on Sentosa Island or have SGD 5 million blocked in a Singapore bank for five years. on top of that prove that your net worth is a minimum of 20 million Singapore Dollars

p.s. no such thing like minimum age and no such thing like retirement visa!

The $1m figure refers to investment in certain types of businesses. Yes, there would be costs above what you are required to invest in a business but you are not required to buy a house.

Also, there might not be a minimum age to get a residence permit as an investor but if you are under 50 (or more practically under 48) an additional path to Pemanent Residency exists -- you can work in Singapore for a couple of years under an Employment Pass before you retire and then apply for permanant residency. If you are a skilled worker who has been working in Singapore for a couple of years under an Employment Pass there's a high chance that you will be granted Permanent Residence status should you apply, however to get permanent residence by that path you must apply before you are 50 years old. The advantage of this path is that you don't need to invest any money in Singapore nor even demonstrate that you have any assets; the disadvantage is that you have to work for a couple of years before you can retire. Taking this route is probably more trouble than it's worth for most people, but if you happen to be just shy of 50 and already have a couple of years working in Sinagpore under your belt, applying for the PR can be attractive.

FWIW, the Singapore government has an on-line assesment tool to give Employment Pass holders a general idea of the chances that they would be granted Permanent Residency at https://www.psi.gov.sg/NASApp/tmf/TMFServle...amp;Reload=true

Edited November 7, 2008 by OriginalPoster

[old wanderer]

I was in Singapore last year and this....I opened a CITI bank accout there. Minimum was $20,000 USA or a $30/mo fee for the account. Not Cheap.

The Greyland prices are accurate.

[chickencurry]

1 Singha beer 0.33l can in Thailand supermarket: 30baht

same in Singapore Supermarket: 3.35 S$

Short time with Beach Road girl in Pattaya: 500 baht

Short time with Thai girl in Geylang :70 S$

Live in Thailand, bank in Singapore and your coupons are tax exempt.

Live in Singapore and you lose your tax exemption.

WRONG! private investors enjoy zero tax (interest and capital gains) since january 1st, 2004.

Very true. Also zero inheritance tax/death duties since early 2008. They have tax well sorted out.

[Hairy]

Live in Singapore and you lose your tax exemption.

WRONG! private investors enjoy zero tax (interest and capital gains) since january 1st, 2004.

Very true. Also zero inheritance tax/death duties since early 2008. They have tax well sorted out.

This might differ depending on the nationality of the person in question. Americans are still f*cked on taxes no matter where they go; the U.S. government doesn't care what you do with your money as long as you give most of it to them, whether you're investing it or bequeathing it.

The only exemption Americans get is for foreign employment earnings, and that will be taken away in Obama's first year according to his tax plans.

ETA: UNLESS someone renounces American citizenship. But even there, the Dems have been trying to come up with a way to trigger taxes when someone does that, because a few multimillionaires decided to do so over the last few years.

Edited November 8, 2008 by Hairy