Alternative loses

[wolf5370]

With the current governmental moves afoot to change all that we know and love about Thailand (no I'm not just talking about Go-Go bars) as it heads towards a truly insular nationalism (fascism on it way? - god I hope not) we have had many posts – tongue in cheek perhaps – of us all packing up and moving to more welcoming neighbours.

I was just wondering what the alternatives are.

Presumably Myanmar is out. So what left: Philippines, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, etc?

OK, Philippines – been there. As long as you head island bound, it’s beautiful: White beaches; corral reefs (if they haven’t been blown to smithereens with dynamite fishing); 7,000 islands (at high tide); wonderful happy people. Manila – hated it. Admittedly, last time I was there ‘old Smokey’ was still smoking – I think it gone now (may be wrong though) – if the wind was blowing the wrong way it stunk. People where rude and about as safe as Central Park after midnight (or Brixton High Street after dusk if you’re a Brit). Drove past a dead child in the road once – Taxi driver said could be really dead, or hurt or play acting as part of a mugging, so nobody would stop – looked dead to me.

Cebu – just to dangerous, I was always on edge and this was well before 9/11 etc. Only stayed in the Philippines for a few months, and someone tried to scam be at least a dozen times. Also, can’t buy land there either (without, er, Tea Money) – unless this has changed over the last few years.

So, I have never stayed in any of the other places. Those that have and do know – what are the true alternatives? Can we buy land? Live comfortably? Safely? Do business? etc? Calling you MrVietnam and friends, give us the low down.

[mrvietnam2001]

Hi Wolf,

Vnam is pretty cool if one has the balls to get right in the communists face. I did. See here: http://www.vietventures.com/Travel_Agreement.htm

I'm almost positive that I'm the first individual American to have an actual signed travel and trade agreement with the government there. But it took some doing let me tell ya.

The environment in Vietnam sucks. Horrible in many places. This is a mostly because the wonderful US Government doing what they did and then followed by the heavy hand of communism and the embargo that coincided with it. It's changing, but in comparison to the beauty of Samui, or even Phuket for that matter, it's got decades to go before it can reconstruct.

The "people" however are the complete opposite of Thais. Industrious, hard working and the levels of scams are so juvenile it's almost funny. None of those death threats as is the case in Thailand. They seem to have a real thing however ( a good one) for Americans whereas the same level of interest doesn't exist for the Brits and definitely not for the Germans. Go figure.

There's a few places that definitely "compare" with the enviro in Thailand, but I wouldn't mention then on any message board    I intend to develop some "sand" there soon and plan to retire there. When I arrive in Saigon, the police are waiting and carry my bags thru so I'm in a bit of a difderent position than most people. Hence I get certain preferential treatment that makes it "different" for me than for the masses I think.

But boy oh boy, living on the side of a mountain overlooking the gulf of Siam sure is something to carve into the memory banks. Which is one of the reasons I haven't completely written the place off.

I think that anyone who can create a little income on the net for example so as to avoid being dependant on any particular place is a really smart thing to do these days. The US is now just a tad under 7 TRILLION in debt and the world is only going to finance this for so long and then the US Collection is going to get even more aggressive.

Maintain a place here yes. Stay full time. no way.

P.S. I thought about buying an island in the PI although haven't been there. Is this a do-able thing?

Best Regards

Mr Vietnam

[wolf5370]

Hi Mr Vietnam,

thanks for replying

Looks like Vietnam will be a contender in the years to come. Especially as the government opens open and people like yourself make the first steps and show them the benefits that can be gained. Even China has moved to embrace some elements of capitalism and a farang friend of mine has just moved there to teach the chinese kids English.

P.S. I thought about buying an island in the PI although haven't been there. Is this a do-able thing?

I had a Filipino friend who owned an island (although her family has since sold much of it to a holiday resort company   ). On the boat trop to it, there is a large island that she informed me was owner by a German businessman. Apparantly it cost about USD$4.5 Million!!!! It is illegal to buy land as a foreigner, but money talks.

[Butterfly]

The Pillipines are a dump and a dangerous one.

Laos is nice and developing rapidly and if you are French, there are special treatments for you.

Cambodia used to be a very nice place, but recently it has been politically unstable. Siem Reap is a good place to start a business (again if you are French, it helps) and the laws are not too bad for the foreigners (again money talks). However it is much smaller than Thailand so the expat community also tend to be small. Still overall good.

Thailand is really the best compromise. Big enough to get lost, but not big enough to loose your soul.

I heard a lot of nightmares stories in Vietnam (scams) and the Vietnamese can be a tough crowd to negotiate with. Also their lack of business experience make them "arrogant" in their expectations. The police is worse than Thailand and the place can become quickly expansive if you are a foreigner. The place is still not "politically" free and a tough communist regime with erratic public policies. Definitely a place to go for adventure.

[mrvietnam2001]

I'm so happy about 3rd party references to Vietnam. That kind of thing will surely keep the riff raff out.

Cambodia has been politically unstable "lately"?

Whew. You're right. Thailand is the best  

Mr Vietnam

[Butterfly]

I'm so happy about 3rd party references to Vietnam. That kind of thing will surely keep the riff raff out.

Cambodia has been politically unstable "lately"?

Whew. You're right. Thailand is the best  

Mr Vietnam

Not lately but particularly more lately !!! it's a relative question  

What ? no scams or horror stories in Vietnam ? you sound like the person who say they always win in Casinos and I find this suspicious. I don't know exactly how many people got scamed in their venture in Vietnam but I met quite a few. We are not talking $10k scams here but rather a few millions. Maybe Vietnam is safe when your business venture is less than 100k but it does not seem so when you have the "real" money to do the investment. A nice place to go if you like the adventure for sure. Not for everyone (and better for you  )

[MaiChai]

I'm waiting for Bush to come and go, and then things getting back to normality. Then we can see how the Thais intend to play their new found freedom from the IMF. The current talk might just be all retoric, and maybe a little common sense will come back into play.

One thing is clear, one should not burn ones bridges, and have a path out should things go sour. It certainly makes me wary of ever making the commitment I made here anywhere else. The best defense is to be able to go back to where you came from; at least things are reasonably sensible in the UK. In fact the British countryside is rather quaint and beautiful at the moment, so it aint that bad.

[wilson steer]

I reckon that the Philippines is a good place to live, as long as you get away from the cities. Some islands are great, and pretty safe as long as you are not flash. Northern Cebu, Daan Bantaayaan is good and the island of Malapascua off the northern tip of Cebu (One hour by boat from Maya) is a great place to live. Boracay island is a bit too touristy.

Manila can be O.K. to live, if you like mad city life, most peoples first impressions are negative, but once you know the ropes, it can be really exciting living in Manila. I don't consider it more dangerous than any western city if you take care at night time.

Laos is a bit boring. 10.30pm shutdown. Visas for living there are difficult, although a border run from Vientienne is easy and cheap.

I don't know about Vietnam. Some people swear by it, but I have heard reports that it lacks the discipline of Thailand, and that it is "a lot of hassle".

If I had unlimited funds I would live in Japan. In my opinion that is greatest place on earth!

[KenUdon]

The Philippines is the focus of my attention at the moment. I am taking the view that things will only get more difficult here now, and so "do it unto them before they do it to me" etc.

Now free of the restrictions of the IMF, there is nothing to stop Toxin going totally berserk with regard to his obvious hatred of any farang. Nationalism is one thing, but I think it's a question of watch this space here now.

He has been quoted this week as saying that all foreigners arriving in Thailand BY LAND are to be fingerprinted, and that the process has already started at some crossings. Can you imagine if they try to apply this to all ARRIVALS! Hysterical. The man has really lost it, but...what's to stop him.

No, I will find much more friendly shores to spend/invest my money.

[Rambutan]

The talk revovolves only around SE-Asia.

I wonder if anybody has any experience in South and Central America?

[TizMe]

EsacapeArtist.com ran an article that compared many different countries. The criteria that it used determined that Panama is the best place to retire to.

You can read it here.

[wolf5370]

Never really thought about S.America. A Danish friend of mine's mum lives in Brazil most of the year and has done for a while. She reckon's it great apparantly. Ronnie Biggs (great train robber) lived most of his life their - took a fair bit of cash with him though

[simon43]

Yes, Brazil was also the destination for some of my friends who previously ran real estate business in Spain.  I actually met them on Monday in Spain when they were on holiday from Brazil. They said that it was like paradise (hmm..sure I heard that bout a lot of countries...), but with some good business opportunities to sell property to Brits etc.  (Apparently many yanks and Canadians already settle in Brazil..bit closer for them than Thailand maybe?)