Trump’s Vision for a Government Overhaul with RFK Jr. and Elon Musk Gaining Power

[h90]

In reply to the poster who referenced the "over-priced" English Premier League, I might point out to him that Thaksin is no longer the owner of any football clubs in England. So, the lack of extradition has nothing to do with that.

I understand people being annoyed with PAD, but I still think we should celebrate the fact that the traditionally non-confrontational and passive Thai people are taking a stand against a political system that allows blatant vote-buying. They're standing up for what they perceive to be right! Whether their opinion is right or wrong is of course, a matter for debate.

If you can't get your kids to school for a day or two, so what? The future of the entire democracy is at stake!

I still think we should celebrate the fact that the traditionally non-confrontational and passive Thai people are taking a stand against a political system that allows blatant vote-buying.

90% of the PAD protesters are also bought. And PAD does not advocate Democracy for all only for the self righteous...get a clue!

That is a lie repeating it again and again does not make it true

[SiriusBlack1]

The Thaksin regime will be remembered as the Golden Age of the brief flowering of Thai democracy.

Yes, a thug who murdered his own people and looted the country is the best thing that ever happened to Thailand. Who else offered the peasants better healthcare, debt relief and microcredit schemes?

It's amazing this country isn't as fuct up as Burma already.

[Scott]

Logbag: I think your getting a few things mixed up here. First of all Thaksin is in Britain, not the US. The EU is a pretty strong supporter of Human Rights, both in theory and in deed. The US has nothing to do with this particular battle. Thaksin didn't flee to the US, and there are probably very good reasons why he didn't. And for God Sakes what does Guantanamo have to do with this?

[animatic]

The European human rights law does not allow anybody to be extradited to a country where they could be executed or treated in a inhuman or degrading way.

##Tell that to the guys held at Guantanamo Bay for the last decade without trial.

Thailand has a very bad track record on human rights.

##Unlike say the U.S, which executes more people than most countries, invades and wages illegal wars with other countries and spends billions of tax payers dosh fighting imaginary "terrorists." Or perhaps the UK who supplies land mines and other various weapons to the so called third world. They maim and disable innocent farmers. Human rights law?? Give us a break.......

Thailand bring there prisons up to a level that is fit to keep human beings in then extradition will only go one way.

##Like where, Guantanamo Bay? Pelican Bay? Thai prisons are nowhere near as bad as they were and there has been an effort to reform them. Pelican Bay prison in California has people locked down 23 hours a day for years in a place called the "shoe" and it makes Thai prisons look like a hotel.

European nations will not send people to be starved beaten tortured & be left for dead {when sick}

##Didn't Thaksin get a police motorcade when he last landed in Bangkok? I somehow can't see him eating red rice and fish head soup. He'd be the first Thai prisoner to have a 5 star rated cell with an ensuite if he ever got to jail. It aint gunna happen so just forget about it

Why not stay on topic, Bush bashing doesn't fit here.

And assuming most americans back Bush, which is wrong,

or EVER backed Bush, is also out of place here.

Not to mention the fact we will be rid of him in very shortly anyway.

Please, British Embassy rally ONLY.

[jdinasia]

The only thing I can see the PAD succeeding at, at this point is making Bangkok traffic worse than it already is and really angering EVERYONE.

I am not angry .... neither is my partner who works in Emporium Tower .... Next!

-----

WI steve

this is not WI

[speedybuffalo]

The 30th has also been mentioned among the green interest group. Any news about them?

[younghusband]

By way of background to the PAD disruption of the Sukhumvit area this morning, it's useful to step back and to place this movement in its broader context.The Financial Times's Amy Kazmin does this admirably.

"By Amy Kazmin

Published: October 28 2008 02:00

Once the main gateway to Thailand, Bangkok's old Don Mueang airport has been little used since the city's new international hub opened in 2006. But Don Mueang's VIP terminal is these days the unlikely refuge of an elected government struggling to retain control in the face of an extraordinary challenge to its rule.

In hastily refurbished offices previously occupied by airline executives, Somchai Wongsawat, Thailand's new prime minister and brother-in-law of the exiled Thaksin Shinawatra, his predecessor but two, is trying to keep the wheels of state turning - and steer the economy through the current global financial turmoil - even as the coalition led by his People's Power party fights to survive.

The coalition, dominated by Thaksin loyalists, took power in February after winning a general election with strong support from rural voters still devoted to the former telecommunications mogul. But in a stand-off that this week entered its third month, ministers and officials have been shut out of the sprawling Government House compound - the jewel of which is an Italianate palace - by thousands of protesters who reject the legitimacy of the Thai electoral system and the PPP-led administration it has produced.

Calling themselves the People's Alliance for Democracy, the protesters, drawn mainly from Bangkok's middle class, are demanding a new political order to replace the one-person, one-vote parliamentary democracy that they say permits poorly educated rural voters repeatedly to deliver power to corrupt politicians unworthy of leading the Buddhist kingdom. This month, protesters trying to prevent Mr Somchai's government from unveiling its programme in parliament clashed with police in some of the worst political violence Bangkok has seen since 1992.

The PAD, whose followers mainly wear royalist yellow, insists its proposed "new politics" will improve Thailand's democracy. But critics say the PAD - and its powerful behind-the-scenes military, bureaucratic and palace backers - are seeking nothing less than a rollback of hard-won democratic gains so as to restore the political influence of traditional Bangkok elites.

"It's just a power grab," says Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political scientist at Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University. "The PAD is the vanguard of the establishment. This is a counterrevolution to the right. It's a disguised manipulation of democratic rules to preserve and retake the prerogatives of the establishment."

The struggle, which along with the global financial crisis is taking its toll on the export-oriented Thai economy (see below), will reverberate well beyond a country long seen as a model for developing economies gradually transitioning towards democracy. Any rollback - or even the widespread embrace of the idea that democracy has failed - could embolden traditional elites elsewhere to resist or even reverse democratisation. "If the old guard can roll back the clock and reclaim lost prerogatives, it will set a bad example for other transition countries," says Mr Thitinan.

Aloose grouping, the PAD has yet to define fully how it would achieve its aim of reducing political corruption. It has backed away from its first idea of a parliament in which 70 per cent of members would be appointed. Instead it is proposing a voting system with indirect elections based on occupational groups. PAD leaders "want to destroy party politics in Thailand and reduce the power of the population to vote", says Giles Ungpakorn, author of a book critical of the 2006 military coup that removed Mr Thaksin.

The tycoon, who had served more than five years as prime minister and now lives in the UK, was last week sentenced in absentia by Thailand's supreme court to two years in jail on a charge of corruption in a land deal.

Chaturon Chaisang, a former deputy prime minister in Mr Thaksin's government, says the Bangkok showdown reflects the "fundamental political conflict" that has haunted Thailand since the abolition of its absolute monarchy in 1932 (see right). "It's a question of whether a tiny group of 'good people' should run the country or do people have the legitimacy to choose their own leaders."

Yet the battle is unlikely to end quickly. Supavud Saicheua, a Phatra Securities economist, predicts that the conflict could take three to four years to play out - with the economy suffering plenty of collateral damage. "The crux of the issue is the ability for political power to be shared amicably between the elites and Bangkokians on the one hand, and the more united rural based voters on the other," he wrote in a recent report.

"If one-man, one-vote cannot produce an acceptably trusted government, then many in Bangkok would support judicial activism to check and balance the government, or resort to appointed leaders."

During 18 months of militaryinstalled government, Thailand adopted a new constitution that replaced the elected senate with a half-appointed upper chamber and strengthened judicial and bureaucratic power while diluting elected officials' authority. The strong mandate the primarily rural electorate gave to Mr Thaksin's loyalists last December prompted PAD leaders' agitation for further such curbs. "Thaksin excited such animosity that their hatred of him has evolved into hatred of the system that brought him to power," says Chris Baker, a Bangkok-based historian and analyst.

The number of PAD protesters besieging Government House is far smaller than those who joined the 2006 marches against Mr Thaksin. But they have shown a willingness to adopt confrontational tactics, such as forcing the closure of airports including Phuket for several days in September.

The PAD also appears to have strong financial support - and protection - from elite forces. Not only has the military refused to remove the protesters from Government House by force, or even to put pressure on them by restricting the flow of food and people into the compound, but serving officers have been training PAD guards on how to resist any eviction effort.

Queen Sirikit, wife of the revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej, attended the funeral of an antigovernment protester killed in this month's violence, a gesture Thais interpret as a display of support for the PAD cause. The continuing political role of the military was meanwhile in evidence when Gen Anupong Paochinda, the army chief - flanked by the heads of the navy and air force - in a televised interview called on Mr Somchai to resign to show responsibility for the violence. Surayud Chulanont, the privy councillor who served as prime minister after the 2006 coup, has urged the PPP to negotiate with the PAD on its demands.

"The distinguishing features of the movement are its wealth, its explicit and its implicit use of violence, and its magical protection against threats, including police action, court orders, and legal process," Chang Noi, the pseudonym for two acute observers of the Thai political scene, wrote recently in The Nation newspaper. "These are the politics of class and privilege."

Mr Somchai, who became prime minister last month after his predecessor was removed by a court for hosting a cookery show while in office, is trying to reduce tensions, avoiding any provocation that might trigger further disruption or violence that could be used to justify a new military coup. He has suggested that he is open to negotiating with the PAD.

Yet even as Mr Somchai tries to defuse the PAD challenge, his administration faces another threat to its survival: charges of electoral fraud brought against his party at the constitutional court. The court has the power to dissolve the PPP and ban its leaders from political life, by invoking draconian laws imposed after the 2006 coup that provide for the punishment of an entire political party, and its leadership, for the misdeeds of a few.

That such laws exist at all - and are so readily invoked - highlight what a long way Thailand still has to go in building sustainable democratic institutions, even if the PAD elite fails to win further legal changes. Says Mr Ungpakorn: "Whatever the outcome, it doesn't look very good for democracy."

Coup history

Seven decades of squabbles

Ever since a 1932 revolt by top bureaucrats and military officers ended absolute monarchy, Thais have been fighting over the allocation of political power.

For decades, Thailand was under the thumb of repressive military dictatorships, which ruled with the backing of the US - then battling communism in Asia - and allies in the palace.

In the 1980s, urban middle-class demands for greater political participation and social justice were accommodated with a "managed democracy" in which General Prem Tinsulanonda, the army chief who is now the top adviser to King Bhumibol Adulyadej, served as prime minister for 11 years. An appointed senate packed with military officers and bureaucrats also wielded great clout.

The clamour for more participatory politics peaked in the 1990s, when Thailand adopted a reformist constitution intended to boost both government stability and accountability. In its effort to lay solid democratic foundations, the 1997 charter required the prime minister to be an elected MP and it created a wholly elected senate.

In 2001, Thaksin Shinawatra, a billionaire telecommunications mogul, swept to power with broad-based urban and rural support, after promising that his wealth would make him immune to corruption. Mr Thaksin fulfilled populist promises to pump money into the neglected countryside and make state social services more accessible. But urban elites grew disillusioned with his authoritarian tendencies, vigorous taxation to fund his populist programmes, policies benefiting his family's business interests, and his suspected republican leanings.

Tapping into a sense of betrayal among those who had previously looked to Mr Thaksin as a national saviour, the People's Alliance for Democracy mobilised the Bangkok middle classes to join protests against him. In September 2006, a military coup drove him from power, just months before elections that, due to his enduring popularity among rural voters, Mr Thaksin was widely expected to win.

Economic impact

'Revival requires a political equilibrium that is years away'

With its pliant workforce, well developed infrastructure and easy living, Thailand nearly always makes the short list for foreign companies searching for a suitable south-east Asian investment location. But as Thais have grown increasingly consumed with their political battles in the past few years, investors have opted to go elsewhere and foreign direct investment inflows have dropped off sharply.

From a peak of $9.2bn in 2006, foreign direct investment dropped to $6.1bn in 2007, reflecting the turmoil that accompanied massive anti-government protests and a September 2006 military coup. In the first six months of 2008, Thailand, south-east Asia's second largest economy and a hub of foreign manufacturing, received just $1.69bn in foreign investment inflows.

"People are just sitting on their hands waiting to see what happens politically," says Sriyan Pietersz, head of research at JPMorgan in Bangkok.

Thailand, like other Asian nations, is holding its breath to see how the crises in the US and European financial systems will hit its economy. The finance ministry has cut its gross domestic product growth forecast for the year to 5.1 per cent, down from a previous 5.6 per cent, and projected an even worse performance for the coming year.

But Thailand, which grew far more slowly than its regional peers last year, will face an even tougher time if its government is so hamstrung by legal and political challenges that it cannot adopt aggressive pro-growth policies. Investor and consumer confidence would both be further undermined.

"Restoring Thailand's medium-term growth prospects requires a sustained revival of public and private investment," Supavud Saicheau, an economist at Phatra Securities, wrote in a recent report. "We doubt that such a revival is possible until a new political equilibrium is re-established, which we believe will be about three to four years from now."

The impact of recent strife on Thailand's tourist trade - which employs about 1.8m people and accounts for around 6 per cent of GDP - is another worry.

Tourism had been strikingly resilient to the recent years of political instability, with foreign visitors to Thailand increasing steadily since 2005. Yet all that changed this month, when a state of emergency was temporarily declared in Bangkok after a deadly clash between government supporters and opponents. The People's Alliance for Democracy, which has been leading the protests, also closed three regional airports, including that of the tourist island of Phuket, for several days.

With countries warning citizens against travel to Thailand, arrivals in Bangkok's international airport plummeted. The finance ministry has estimated that the industry lost anything between $880m and $2bn in September as a result of the trouble.

Tourism professionals are still hopeful of a rebound in the coming high season, as the state of emergency has been lifted and the PAD has backed away from such tactics as closing airports. Apichart Sankary, president of the Association of Thai Travel Agents, says: "In Thai, we call this damaging your own rice cooking pot."

Edited October 30, 2008 by younghusband

[AlKing]

In reply to the poster who referenced the "over-priced" English Premier League, I might point out to him that Thaksin is no longer the owner of any football clubs in England. So, the lack of extradition has nothing to do with that.

I understand people being annoyed with PAD, but I still think we should celebrate the fact that the traditionally non-confrontational and passive Thai people are taking a stand against a political system that allows blatant vote-buying. They're standing up for what they perceive to be right! Whether their opinion is right or wrong is of course, a matter for debate.

If you can't get your kids to school for a day or two, so what? The future of the entire democracy is at stake!

I still think we should celebrate the fact that the traditionally non-confrontational and passive Thai people are taking a stand against a political system that allows blatant vote-buying.

90% of the PAD protesters are also bought. And PAD does not advocate Democracy for all only for the self righteous...get a clue!

That is a lie repeating it again and again does not make it true

I second that this is a lie. The fact is close to 99.99% of the PAD protesters are bought.

[jdinasia]

The Thaksin regime will be remembered as the Golden Age of the brief flowering of Thai democracy.

Yes, a thug who murdered his own people and looted the country is the best thing that ever happened to Thailand. Who else offered the peasants better healthcare, debt relief and microcredit schemes?

It's amazing this country isn't as fuct up as Burma already.

Ummmmm

1) It was not Thaksin's 30 baht health scheme

2) All gov'ts here have done some debt relief

3) The village loan scheme hurt more Thais than it ever helped

4) Buying votes isn't democracy

it's amazing what people don't know

[jerryb78]

you know what.....I'm sick and tire of hearing about this PAD bulls%&t. thai government should just take action. any kind of action and resolve this PAD problem. they should relized that they are not doing this country any good right now. government need to turn the economy around a.s.a.p. I take no side and i dont give any govenment party or the people party any simphaty. people always want something for them self eventhough they said they are doing it for their country.

Now as fas as thai politition goes, they are all corrupted as far as i know. they are all Freaking dirty. it just depend on how they steal and how much they steal from the cookie jar.

declear martial law, restore order and get this sh#t over with. i'm against violance, but i'm in favor of order. Since police can't reallly do their job, military action seem to be the best way. Screw the media. Thai media think they are badas#s with international coverage. but when sombody put a gun to they head, let see if they going to go and cover that story or broadcast those footage. All broadcasting are under military power anyway. one phone call and they have total media black out.

they are draging the country down people, i don't care who is right or wrong. they can fight it out in court or in parliment. i could careless.

[jerrylee]

England is fast becoming the country of choice for criminal despots and dodgy businessmen. Thaksin has been found guilty by the very courts he once happily used in his vexatious litigations against opponents.

To now hear him whining about the injustice of it all is quite pathetic and sickening given his track record on human rights. Criminals on less serous charges would have been long since deported and shipped back home so what is it that allows him to stay happily in England?

If the poms are that desperate for people to prop up their overpriced football league let them have him. They will be the losers in the long run.

... saying goes that living in england is doing time on porridge?

[logbags]

Well I get a bit sick of people rubbishing the Thai people all the time as if they live in some exalted realm of divine light in their own countries. Our countries took centuries of wars and violent incidents to get their current imperfect state. Yet we stand in judgement when the Thais want some change in their system.

The system in Thailand is dysfunctional but that doesn't mean we should attack every Thai person as they are just as fed up with it as anyone else. My pointing at the U.S is just to show you how biased our perceptions get. As if Thaksin was any worse than Bush. Thaksin stuffed up Thailand, Bush the whole world.

[WISteve]

The only thing I can see the PAD succeeding at, at this point is making Bangkok traffic worse than it already is and really angering EVERYONE.

I am not angry .... neither is my partner who works in Emporium Tower .... Next!

-----

WI steve

this is not WI

No it surely isn't.

In any nation where the rule of law is followed this armed band of thugs would be disarmed and told to disburse or face arrest.

And don't bother preaching about Gitmo. The courts are addressing that as well. Too slowly admittedly, but it's working within the law.

This two month occupation of the seat of government is making Thailand a laughing stock.

The latest demonstration at the British Embassy is just PAD's way of flexing it's muscle ad showing the world they can act with impunity.

Even to the point of murder.

~WISteve

[angiud]

you know what.....I'm sick and tire of hearing about this PAD bulls%&t. thai government should just take action. any kind of action and resolve this PAD problem. they should relized that they are not doing this country any good right now. government need to turn the economy around a.s.a.p. I take no side and i dont give any govenment party or the people party any simphaty. people always want something for them self eventhough they said they are doing it for their country.

Now as fas as thai politition goes, they are all corrupted as far as i know. they are all Freaking dirty. it just depend on how they steal and how much they steal from the cookie jar.

declear martial law, restore order and get this sh#t over with. i'm against violance, but i'm in favor of order. Since police can't reallly do their job, military action seem to be the best way. Screw the media. Thai media think they are badas#s with international coverage. but when sombody put a gun to they head, let see if they going to go and cover that story or broadcast those footage. All broadcasting are under military power anyway. one phone call and they have total media black out.

they are draging the country down people, i don't care who is right or wrong. they can fight it out in court or in parliment. i could careless.

Order, order, we need more order! We need a stronger man in Thailand! Cannot protest for everything! dam_n commies, they are everywhere. We need a strong junta! iron fist with opposition!! Sieg h... oops my mistake....

[jdinasia]

The only thing I can see the PAD succeeding at, at this point is making Bangkok traffic worse than it already is and really angering EVERYONE.

I am not angry .... neither is my partner who works in Emporium Tower .... Next!

-----

WI steve

this is not WI

Even to the point of murder.

~WISteve

huh?

again ...

this isn't WI

and yes people in WI are still talking about Kent State

Steve ... you appear to not be seeing what is really happening in Thailand on a broader level .... and I can't be bothered to try and educate you.

[Plus]

thai government should just take action.

This government is practically illegitimate and has absolutely no power. The police, the military, the people - no one recognises it and feels free to ignore the orders.

It isn't really a "Thai government" - it works for a fugitive criminal in London, not for the country.

[jerryb78]

The European human rights law does not allow anybody to be extradited to a country where they could be executed or treated in a inhuman or degrading way.

##Tell that to the guys held at Guantanamo Bay for the last decade without trial.

Thailand has a very bad track record on human rights.

##Unlike say the U.S, which executes more people than most countries, invades and wages illegal wars with other countries and spends billions of tax payers dosh fighting imaginary "terrorists." Or perhaps the UK who supplies land mines and other various weapons to the so called third world. They maim and disable innocent farmers. Human rights law?? Give us a break.......

Thailand bring there prisons up to a level that is fit to keep human beings in then extradition will only go one way.

##Like where, Guantanamo Bay? Pelican Bay? Thai prisons are nowhere near as bad as they were and there has been an effort to reform them. Pelican Bay prison in California has people locked down 23 hours a day for years in a place called the "shoe" and it makes Thai prisons look like a hotel.

European nations will not send people to be starved beaten tortured & be left for dead {when sick}

##Didn't Thaksin get a police motorcade when he last landed in Bangkok? I somehow can't see him eating red rice and fish head soup. He'd be the first Thai prisoner to have a 5 star rated cell with an ensuite if he ever got to jail. It aint gunna happen so just forget about it

hey logbag.

have you ever spent time in Thai prison? have u ever step foot in the maximum security in Bangkok? if you have never been there. you should shut the hel_l up. Thai prison if far worse than US prison.---Any US prison---period! as far as human right. there is some, but not much. at least they put roof over you head and feed your sorry ars.

you think they don't beat people up in US prison or UK prison.? HA HA HA u don't know a dame thing do you.

and let me ask you this. why do you think those prisoner are lock up 23 hrs a day in a room that's 8 x 8 ft.? have you ever read the resume of some of these <deleted>#ker? they should get lethal injection in the first place. why life with out parole? why wasteing tax payer money feeding these them.?

Thaksin will never go to Thai jail- never!!! you have no idea what kind of people they are. you are nothing. ab solutely nothing to these people. people disappear everyday, you might just make the statistic if you screw around with these people. you really think your embassey can help you? think again, you are in thailand and subject to thail law - that mean you have no right!!!. International law or human right mean very little when you are playing with these people.

you know, you should take some political science class and test what ever you teach you in class out in the real world. let see where you end up.

[adam1]

You seem to have missed the point WISTEVE - it's a jungle out there, there has been violence and maybe more. If a politician was marching he'd have armed heavies, these guys look like thugs and they may be such, but that doesn't invalidate the people behind this frontline who want to protest and are unable to defend themelves against imtimidation. To restate the point which you seem to have missed, people get the government thay deserve, and these people are trying to get a half-decent one. That is to be commended.

As for the poster who says that 90% of PAD are bought, there seems to be some on this Forum who are disputing your figures. Therefore, it might advance the debate if you could offer us any proof. In any case, they are still campaigning for what they perceive to be a fairer system, so I say let them get on with it!

............I understand people being annoyed with PAD, but I still think we should celebrate the fact that the traditionally non-confrontational and passive Thai people are taking a stand against a political system that allows blatant vote-buying. They're standing up for what they perceive to be right! Whether their opinion is right or wrong is of course, a matter for debate.

If you can't get your kids to school for a day or two, so what? The future of the entire democracy is at stake!

And please explain to the surviving family of Mr Sangwean Rujimola how proud you are of these fine, upstanding citizens

Thugs ! Marching down a busy city street carrying their clubs and bats! Yes, we should all be very proud!!

~WISteve

[WISteve]

The only thing I can see the PAD succeeding at, at this point is making Bangkok traffic worse than it already is and really angering EVERYONE.

I am not angry .... neither is my partner who works in Emporium Tower .... Next!

-----

WI steve

this is not WI

Even to the point of murder.

~WISteve

huh?

again ...

this isn't WI

and yes people in WI are still talking about Kent State

Steve ... you appear to not be seeing what is really happening in Thailand on a broader level .... and I can't be bothered to try and educate you.

Kent State? My we are reaching aren't we?

No one I know is, but then I don't live in your ivory tower.

Mr Sangwean Rujimola: the gentlemen murdered. And any 2 bit detective reading the news story at the beginning of this string would have a good idea who did it.

That's the revealing part of your post. A resounding HUH?

Please don't bother "educating me" since there appears to be very little that I would consider worthwhile learning from you.

PAD is not going to bring democracy to Thailand. They will continue to drag Thailand into anarchy and bring more suffering to the citizens if the government and the military do not act.

~WISteve

Edited October 30, 2008 by WISteve

[Gary A]

It's really quite simple. Thailand is a country of HAVES and HAVE NOTS. The HAVES, meaning the rich and elite resent the fact that as it is now, one man one vote. Do you really want politicians who are able to get away with murder and pass that immunity to punishment down to the next generation of the elite? Laws for the poor and laws for the elite are quite different.

That PAD is being duped and bought by those who wish to destroy democracy. I have absolutely no answers either. My own wife is an anarchist and she refuses to listen to reason.

[Wolfie]

As for the poster who says that 90% of PAD are bought, there seems to be some on this Forum who are disputing your figures. Therefore, it might advance the debate if you could offer us any proof. In any case, they are still campaigning for what they perceive to be a fairer system, so I say let them get on with it!

The GF's whole housing estate in Bangkok have been approached by PAD recruiters, offering them 500b per day if they join the protests, a lot of them have taken the offer and joined in (i have personally witnessed it!) whilst the figure "90%" may be inaccurate, the fact still remains that PAD (who are against a government accused of vote buying) are paying people to join in their protests. Pot calling the kettle black, dontcha think?

[Plus]

The HAVES, meaning the rich and elite resent the fact that as it is now, one man one vote.

He he he, they judge the "HAVES" by how many votes they own, and then they trade.

One man one vote bullshit is for idealistic fools, not meaning anyone personally here.

[BFD]

A friend of mine sent me some pictures from around the soi 24 area. Thanks to Jeff, if you're even on this forum.

BFD!

[bkkbaz]

It's really quite simple. Thailand is a country of HAVES and HAVE NOTS. The HAVES, meaning the rich and elite resent the fact that as it is now, one man one vote. Do you really want politicians who are able to get away with murder and pass that immunity to punishment down to the next generation of the elite? Laws for the poor and laws for the elite are quite different.

That PAD is being duped and bought by those who wish to destroy democracy. I have absolutely no answers either. My own wife is an anarchist and she refuses to listen to reason.

The problem is not that it is one-man one-vote.

The problem is that it is 500*-baht one-vote.

And that is not democracy.

*Varies by area, obviously

Edited October 30, 2008 by bkkbaz

[jasreeve17]

Don't you PAD preachers get bored of repeating your ideology?

Just because a dozen members of this forum and a couple of hundred yellow T-shirt wearers in Bangkok think they are 'democratic warriors', doesn't make it so.

The vast, vast, vast huge majority of Thais have nothing but scorn for the PAD. They have close to zero support from the Thai populous.

Check out what TV and radio stations people are listening to, go on try it, in shops, in taxis, at work (I do all the time because I like to keep in contact with what's truely going on) - it's very rarely the proPAD stations. Even in Bangkok, the so called PAD stronghold, the vast majority of people distrust their motives and want them to fade away...

I'm not waiting around here to hear, again, a couple of the THAIVISA preachers to rant, I'll say goodbye to my colleagues (all have Phd's and hate PAD), jump into a taxi (while he listens to a pro government radio station), pick up some food from the market (pro government radio / tv all around), jump on a motorbike taxi (the guys huddled around a pro government radio) walk past my guard ( watching pro government tv) and into my apartment where my girlfriend and friends will bee watching pro government TV.

Then I might turn on my wifi and get told by the THAIVISA preachers how mighty the PAD movement is???

Edited October 30, 2008 by jasreeve17

[jasreeve17]

The HAVES, meaning the rich and elite resent the fact that as it is now, one man one vote.

He he he, they judge the "HAVES" by how many votes they own, and then they trade.

One man one vote bullshit is for idealistic fools, not meaning anyone personally here.

You should be ashamed of making such a comment. A real superialistic comment, very much inline with PAD ideology. [flamed deleted]

[AlKing]

It's really quite simple. Thailand is a country of HAVES and HAVE NOTS. The HAVES, meaning the rich and elite resent the fact that as it is now, one man one vote. Do you really want politicians who are able to get away with murder and pass that immunity to punishment down to the next generation of the elite? Laws for the poor and laws for the elite are quite different.

That PAD is being duped and bought by those who wish to destroy democracy. I have absolutely no answers either. My own wife is an anarchist and she refuses to listen to reason.

What's wrong with the HAVE having more power and rights than the HAVE NOTS. Be real. The HAVE travel first class and don't even have to Q at immigration. The HAVE NOTS, at best, fly AirAsia, and get sent back (refused entry) even though that have a valid visa (becuause they could not show evidents of having enough funds for their intended stay).

The HAVE are kings, and the HAVE NOT are slaves. Even though the law does not allow, this is a fact. LIVE WITH IT. TIT.

Edited October 30, 2008 by AlKing

[speedybuffalo]

Nice analysis. Thanks for the contribution, newhusband.

It favors 3-4 yaers latent instability to a kind of dramatic 'High Noon' as experienes earlier in history?

If only all relvant parties would agree.

[Tod]

Don't you PAD preachers get bored of repeating your ideology?

Just because a dozen members of this forum and a couple of hundred yellow T-shirt wearers in Bangkok think they are 'democratic warriors', doesn't make it so.

The vast, vast, vast huge majority of Thais have nothing but scorn for the PAD. They have close to zero support from the Thai populous.

+1!!!

[wxpwzrd]

Don't you PAD preachers get bored of repeating your ideology?

<SNIP BLAH BLAH BLAH>

I'm not waiting around here to hear, again, a couple of the THAIVISA preachers to rant, I'll say goodbye to my colleagues (all have Phd's and hate PAD), <SNIP, BLAH BLAH BLAH>

Then I might turn on my wifi and get told by the THAIVISA preachers how mighty the PAD movement is???

Sounds like enough elitism in this post to last a while.