Thaksin Begs For "Royal Kindness"

[grandpops]

BEGS? Where did Taksin get on his knees and beg? Beg for forgiveness? I do not see it in the news.

I agree 100% with you peace blondie.

Can we now change the name of this thread to something more appropriate?

[rixalex]

I can say for certain that Thailand is no more or less corrupt this past 8 years than in the 10 years prior to Thaksin's emergence on the scent.

The trouble with loyal Thaksin supporters like you is your only defence for all the illegal activity and corruption that occured during Thaksin's reign is that it was no more or less corrupt than other periods - and that he is no more or less corrupt than other politicians.

Rather than supporting someone who you seem to be saying is the lesser of two evils, why don't you raise the bar out of the gutter and find someone to support who actually has a shread of honour, decency and integrity?

[The Mask]

I'm so happy seeing I'm not the only one who loves Khun Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai / PPP.

90,000 people is not minority.

Unless you enjoy being the victim of racism how can you support a party who openly hate farang?

[Bangyai]

The issue of redshirts being paid to be bussed in may be partly true, as is the issue of yellowshirts being paid to attend daily rallies. However, these allegations have gotten terribly tired, and ignores the very obvious fact that there is widespread real support for both camps.

If everybody keeps, stupidly and dogmatically, taking the confrontational stance currently in vogue, this country is heading for civil war.

Most TV posters like to pride themselves on their perceived superior maturity compared to the general Thai population. It surely doesn't show in any of these many threads.

Most of you speak like childish idiots at a soccer (or football - take your bloody pick) game, I am sad to say.

So many of you say you love Thailand..... You get all uppity if someone says something bad about it or the Thai people, or if international media reports cast it in a bad light. Grow up, realize what civil war means, and try to help bring about reconciliation rather than stoking hatred.

Quite right, all we seem to see is a entrenchment of the extremes on this forum.

There are of course many issues that make up this mess of a political scenario, but the conciliation is going to have to be at the elite level because that is where the problems are. Your ordinary Thai and also actually not so ordinary Thai, just wants to get on with their life and business. The numbers and shirts and all the paraphernalia are just a symbol behind the opposing elite sides. On one level it is just a vent for frustrations of normal daily life when opposition and "an individual voice" are frowned upon. The numbers game is in the end just a visual endorsement. It is the last resort after all the power channels have been explored - namely judicial, electoral, military, personal and group affiliations etc.

I am sure that if this were 20yrs ago we would have already had a coup "and forfeited US$20 and whatever and gone back to start". Bit like playing one of those board games.

What we are seeing now is a bargaining stalemate. After months of the PAD monopolising the numbers and foul language game. The UDD thought they would join in but missed out on the foul language. In fact the tone of the speeches was one thing noted by many Thais this morning after hearing the foul PAD rhetoric for so long. Just imagine the uproar if we had heard the same language coming from the Red Shirts!

On the one side you are saying that Thaksin should not be able to run the country like a family business, which is of course true. But the other side, is that without him you have others who aspire to run the country as their business. Maybe a few more to share the cake or not. With or without the problems of vote buying the return to a selected government/ less people participation would be ludicrous, you can't lurch Thailand back to a feudal system.

To get things to work there have to be some major changes in the elite and government system. If anything there has to be a major cultural shift. When people think one thing but have to say something else it doesn't bode well.

When a people are not allowed to voice opinions and dissent I think you will find that what we see now is the result.

My view is that if you think Thailand under Thaksin was autocratic, if he totally backs down you will then see something that is really and truly autocratic. Whether the entrenchment is really coming from Thaksin's side is certainly questionable.

Excellent post Sally. Well put.

[Bangyai]

BEGS? Where did Taksin get on his knees and beg? Beg for forgiveness? I do not see it in the news.

Exactly....was it really necessary to give the thread this title.??

[Plus]

So Jonathan Head concluded that Thaksin remains the most populart politician. Great news.

Now let it sink for a while - what has it got to do with democracy? The guy's a thief and a convict on the run from the law.

People who support his return are still stuck in the old, traditional Thai feudal system, which our revolutionary Thaigene so abhors.

In those days guilt or innocence where decided not on the basis of actions, proof and evidence, but on the position on social ladder and resources one was able to pull in front of the court, be it wealth or connections.

Despite all the rhetoric from the likes of Thaigene, nothing, absolutely nothing has changed - except Thaksin wants to measure his status on the ladder by the number of folks who adore him.

The guy is guilty of the crime - no amount of votes can override that, people power can't make him innocent either. They can only break him out of jail.

And the same quesiton once again - what is this circus with avoiding prison time has got to do with democracy?

[grandpops]

I can say for certain that Thailand is no more or less corrupt this past 8 years than in the 10 years prior to Thaksin's emergence on the scent.

The trouble with loyal Thaksin supporters like you is your only defence for all the illegal activity and corruption that occured during Thaksin's reign is that it was no more or less corrupt than other periods - and that he is no more or less corrupt than other politicians.

Rather than supporting someone who you seem to be saying is the lesser of two evils, why don't you raise the bar out of the gutter and find someone to support who actually has a shread of honour, decency and integrity?

You don't have to be a supporter of Thaksin to dislike the PAD. Please raise your bar when you are posting on here!

Many of us didn't like Maggie Thatcher in the 80's but we accepted the result of the election. Britain voted the wrong way and put her and John Major in power for 17 odd years in many peoples opinion, but that's democracy. They also (IMHO) voted the wrong way in the USA with Regan and Bush (both of em) but thats democracy.

If the Democrat leader had a personality and didn't just sit around expecting to be elected, he could have nailed that last election. He is the wettest blanket of a leader I have ever seen in any country, but I would prefer him over Thaksin if it's all the same to you. Not that us falangs will be getting the vote this side of the Andaman Sea freezing over.

I would much prefer a Democrat Government to a TRT/PPP one. But I would prefer a PPP one to a coup or the proposed appointed governemt that the PAD propose.

An appointed government or army coup will not allow the sort of dissent and protests that the PAD/DADD have put on in recent months. They only enshrined this right to protest to hedge agains Thaksin getting elected. They therefore then had the right to immediately undermine his government. They didn't, however, allow for the DADD getting up a monster of an event like this and these rights will go if the Army get back in.

[lordofdelusion]

After careful consideration of both sides of the issue, emotional as they are, (if not logical ) I can only say....

BANNA REPUBLIC!!!!

Flame away kiddies!!!

[grandpops]

BEGS? Where did Taksin get on his knees and beg? Beg for forgiveness? I do not see it in the news.

Exactly....was it really necessary to give the thread this title.??

I think we should let that lay. We don't want to have to prefix Thaksin with "The vile criminal despot robber barron country selling.." every time we utter his name do we? Nor the PAD supporters prefix Sonthi with "The devine righteous representative on earth of God, Buddha, Allah, Jehova .."

This is a sign of how polaised this debacle has become.

[andyc2006]

"I have received a two year sentence. Charges were made against my family and even my secretary was not excluded. My family was left shattered…but my troubles are minor when compared to yours. I can bear it, but the country will be in ruins," he said.

Anybody see him setting up for a giant "I told you so" when Thailand sees its share of the 2008-2010 global recession?

"If only I'd still been PM, we'd have escaped sharing the same fate as the other 200 countries in the world."

[Bangyai]

BEGS? Where did Taksin get on his knees and beg? Beg for forgiveness? I do not see it in the news.

Exactly....was it really necessary to give the thread this title.??

I think we should let that lay. We don't want to have to prefix Thaksin with "The vile criminal despot robber barron country selling.." every time we utter his name do we? Nor the PAD supporters prefix Sonthi with "The devine righteous representative on earth of God, Buddha, Allah, Jehova .."

This is a sign of how polaised this debacle has become

True enough, but on another thread Animatic did condescend to call Sondhi ' a snake ' which was very liberal of him and much appreciated

Edited November 2, 2008 by Bangyai

[cmsally]

Since he came to power on the back of the Asian currency collapse in the late 90's it could be deja vu, it is more than likely that Thailand will deteriorate dramatically in 2009. Just by the fact of association there will be more than a few happy to see him back.

If the Democrats et al wish to be of any worth they should be getting their heads together to propose strategies and policies that can keep Thailand afloat, instead of floating with the drift of the tide hoping that one tide will be strong enough to wash them ashore. What they really need to be doing is putting the old sails up and pulling the oars out.

Right now we have a government that is stalled at every inch and an opposition that is afraid to open their mouth, lest what they say should offend someone. Half the time they are not even sure who the someone is, so maybe just anyone.

This illustrates the core of the problem, "can't open my mouth because I have to cover my back".

The one thing that Thaksin did do was to open his mouth quite a lot and although most of the time his back was covered, ultimately it was not covered enough.

So without major change you have really got 2 choices, one is Thaksin (or someone equal in power) who will steam ahead and get things done and trample along the way. But at least things do move. The other is to have the option of a leader who will be continually mouth closed and head looking over shoulder. Not really much different than Somchai at the moment except we will be following a path of those that I suspect don't have much idea how to run the country and stay behind pulling strings.

Although money politics isn't pretty , I see it as the only balance against an entrenched power elite. Unless of course you think the latter should be given free rein to tip the scales?

Any takers?

Edited November 2, 2008 by cmsally

[rixalex]

I can say for certain that Thailand is no more or less corrupt this past 8 years than in the 10 years prior to Thaksin's emergence on the scent.

The trouble with loyal Thaksin supporters like you is your only defence for all the illegal activity and corruption that occured during Thaksin's reign is that it was no more or less corrupt than other periods - and that he is no more or less corrupt than other politicians.

Rather than supporting someone who you seem to be saying is the lesser of two evils, why don't you raise the bar out of the gutter and find someone to support who actually has a shread of honour, decency and integrity?

You don't have to be a supporter of Thaksin to dislike the PAD. Please raise your bar when you are posting on here!

Many of us didn't like Maggie Thatcher in the 80's but we accepted the result of the election. Britain voted the wrong way and put her and John Major in power for 17 odd years in many peoples opinion, but that's democracy. They also (IMHO) voted the wrong way in the USA with Regan and Bush (both of em) but thats democracy.

And being anti PAD/coup shouldn't mean being pro Thaksin, but it seems to for a lot of posters here.

And to compare Thaksin and Thatcher only works as far as them both being figures generally either loved or hated - that's about where the similiarity ends. As soon as Thaksin came to power he used his position to better himself, whilst slowly eroding away any checks and balances so as to cement his position further.

Democracy under Thaksin was just democracy by name. You will argue that he was more democratic than the generals, the coup and the PAD, but as i say, rather than just citing those who you think are worse than him, why don't you argue against them all. Raise your standards a little why don't you?

[Samuian]

....... got 2 choices, one is Thaksin (or someone equal in power) who will steam ahead and get things done and trample along the way. But at least things do move. The other is to have the option of a leader who will be continually mouth closed and head looking over shoulder. Not really much different than Somchai at the moment except we will be following a path of those that I suspect don't have much idea how to run the country and stay behind pulling strings.

....

first it's not a choice , because this man is a convicted criminal and second no "choice" eihter becausenothing is"steaming" ahead except expectations of who gets what of the pie....and this is being watched by the PAD- type Neighborhood watch of the people!

Thats all!

at the moment... until further notice, please remain calm!

[Los78]

<H3 class=todayBigStory>"Huge show of strength by DAAD" - Nation 02/11/08

Wow, It must be tough for all the Farang PAD lovers this morning when the world media and even the Nation showing people defending Democracy and showing their support for the current government. I think its time that PAD pack up thier propaganda printing press and move forward for Thailands sake instead of continueing to spread division in society for their friends benefit. Sadly Sondhi and the PAD military backed leadership looks like it will continue to cause division. One thing is for sure at least and that is that another coup will be the end of PAD and its leadership. </H3>

[Jai Dee]

Thaksin has no plan to seek royal pardon yet: spokesman

Pongthep Thepkanchana, a personal spokesman of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, said Sunday that Thaksin has no plan to seek a royal pardon yet.

Pongthep said Thaksin so far has no plan to submit a petition to His Majesty the King to seek a royal pardon for his conviction and two-year imprisonment in the Ratchadapisek land case.

Source: The Nation - 02 November 2008

[cmsally]

....... got 2 choices, one is Thaksin (or someone equal in power) who will steam ahead and get things done and trample along the way. But at least things do move. The other is to have the option of a leader who will be continually mouth closed and head looking over shoulder. Not really much different than Somchai at the moment except we will be following a path of those that I suspect don't have much idea how to run the country and stay behind pulling strings.

....

first it's not a choice , because this man is a convicted criminal and second no "choice" eihter becausenothing is"steaming" ahead except expectations of who gets what of the pie....and this is being watched by the PAD- type Neighborhood watch of the people!

Thats all!

at the moment... until further notice, please remain calm!

If nobody can be trusted to govern the country then stagnation is the result. Sooner or later the country is going to suffer , you can only gloss over the figures for so long.

However I would argue that PAD would be more than likely to turn a blind eye if their backers got their turn at the pie.

Whether they would then turn on their backers if division wasn't as expected would rest on many factors. But if they did, further into stagnation the country goes.

[animatic]

What is this freak trying to imply?

It's like some kind of bargain going on here.

If there is no royal pardon or forgiveness, he want a major revolution by the public to show the world how powerful he is?

This guy just need to bow out of the scene for you!

Yes either or, in a nutshell.

He wants back in,

he shows no remorse,

he tries to manipulate the one above,

and then threatens the country's stability

if he doesn't get his way.

ALL IN ONE SENTENCE!

Breath taking hubris....

Can you really imagine a man of such morel turpitude in charge again....?

[Samuian]

....... got 2 choices, one is Thaksin (or someone equal in power) who will steam ahead and get things done and trample along the way. But at least things do move. The other is to have the option of a leader who will be continually mouth closed and head looking over shoulder. Not really much different than Somchai at the moment except we will be following a path of those that I suspect don't have much idea how to run the country and stay behind pulling strings.

....

first it's not a choice , because this man is a convicted criminal and second no "choice" eihter becausenothing is"steaming" ahead except expectations of who gets what of the pie....and this is being watched by the PAD- type Neighborhood watch of the people!

Thats all!

at the moment... until further notice, please remain calm!

If nobody can be trusted to govern the country then stagnation is the result. Sooner or later the country is going to suffer , you can only gloss over the figures for so long.

However I would argue that PAD would be more than likely to turn a blind eye if their backers got their turn at the pie.

Whether they would then turn on their backers if division wasn't as expected would rest on many factors. But if they did, further into stagnation the country goes.

Well, we have the diagnosis, what is the cure then?

A miracle, Michael Moore, a Thai Robin Hood, " bring Takky back, because all are just as bad as he is, he isn't worse then the ones before him", so let's go on??

What therapy, none?

But don't let the patient die?

"Leave it, just let's go on, it always was so cosy, let's nap off again, thinking creates these headaches!

Don't worry I don't think that anyone, except this nutty crime doctor, could have an interest in it, nobody's ego is hurtin' more, than that of takky and his greedy female counterpart!

Did they take away "his" loot and on top of it, are going to charge him for all the wrongdoings he committed while in Office as the PM of this country!

And there isn't only him and his entourage, there are other people as well, may some of them feel at least a bit offended of his way to blame everyone else for what he has been found guilty of, immature, irresponsible, but then this seems to be a widespread disease in this particular society.

After all, they did let him proceed for awhile, but the more time passed, the more takky got out of control, the more he wanted to have until, he wanted it ALL!

So he got his head set straight, he got awarning, a subtle warning, he is the one who holds the key to end ALL this, has already been said!

If he doesn't stop messin' around, even involving HM..hmmmm, let's see, I am "afraid" he want's to know it, he can't stop, shut up and sit tight as he said that "you will have to wait for me 10 years"... no he is pointing in the direction of HM and pushes indirectly towards his kindness... well, well, well, either he is very shrewd or highly screwed, I am not 100% sure yet, I am afraid it must be the last...cause he is yearning for it so hard, he won't stop until he might be stopped!

Out and over!

Edited November 2, 2008 by Samuian

[animatic]

I can say for certain that Thailand is no more or less corrupt this past 8 years than in the 10 years prior to Thaksin's emergence on the scent.

The trouble with loyal Thaksin supporters like you is your only defence for all the illegal activity and corruption that occured during Thaksin's reign is that it was no more or less corrupt than other periods - and that he is no more or less corrupt than other politicians.

Rather than supporting someone who you seem to be saying is the lesser of two evils, why don't you raise the bar out of the gutter and find someone to support who actually has a shread of honour, decency and integrity?

You don't have to be a supporter of Thaksin to dislike the PAD. Please raise your bar when you are posting on here!

Many of us didn't like Maggie Thatcher in the 80's but we accepted the result of the election. Britain voted the wrong way and put her and John Major in power for 17 odd years in many peoples opinion, but that's democracy. They also (IMHO) voted the wrong way in the USA with Regan and Bush (both of em) but thats democracy.

If the Democrat leader had a personality and didn't just sit around expecting to be elected, he could have nailed that last election. He is the wettest blanket of a leader I have ever seen in any country, but I would prefer him over Thaksin if it's all the same to you. Not that us falangs will be getting the vote this side of the Andaman Sea freezing over.

I would much prefer a Democrat Government to a TRT/PPP one. But I would prefer a PPP one to a coup or the proposed appointed governemt that the PAD propose.

An appointed government or army coup will not allow the sort of dissent and protests that the PAD/DADD have put on in recent months. They only enshrined this right to protest to hedge agains Thaksin getting elected. They therefore then had the right to immediately undermine his government. They didn't, however, allow for the DADD getting up a monster of an event like this and these rights will go if the Army get back in.

Grandpops the main difference is Major and Thatcher didn't get caught and convicted of

using their power to commit crimes in violation of England's clear ethics laws.

And several of BOTH their cabinets did have to resign in disgrace for their pecadillos,

and quietly left the stage. Thaksin is the mirror image of that.

There's the primary difference.

And it is clear the list of his probably malfeasences is long and in the courts.

Maggie may have been a royal pain in the ass, but at least she wasn't regularly

and brazenly stealing from the public without compunction.

Oddly enough Major makes my think of Abhisit more than anyone else.

Edited November 2, 2008 by animatic

[Sunderland]

Yes well the farang pro-PAD right-wingers on this forum can keep dreaming up excuses and trot out the tired old suggestion that the pro-Thaksin-pro-democracy supporters were paid to attend, blah, blah..

But just have a look at all the responses in the Forum section of the new Bangkok Post on Sunday (I'm regaining some faith in the Post) from what appears to be Thais and NOT farangs (I'm assuming Thais from their writing styles). They want democracy - they want Thaksin - they will NOT accept an elite appointed government or another right-wing coup.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131755 (the comments are below the sidebar story at the top)

I am not a PAD supporter, but why would the majority of Thais want Thaksin to run their country? He's a convicted criminal ...

[Kerryd]

Thaksin greets his supporters, calls for sympathy

<snipped>

He said he would like to conduct businesses abroad for a period of time and offer economic advice to poor countries.

Like maybe coaching Myanmar and Cambodia on ways to scam money from Thailand (for a hefty percentage of the scam of course).

So, what happens if by some miracle he somehow finagles a Royal Pardon (for this conviction) and makes another "triumphant" return to Thailand ?

Will he make another statement like the one he gave on 28 Feb 08:

"Thaksin Detained on Return to Thailand

Before boarding the plane in Hong Kong, Thaksin told reporters, "I believe in the Thai justice system, especially the court system. Normally in justice systems everywhere, a person is innocent until proved guilty.''

And what happens if he gets arrested (again), arraigned on some of the other outstanding charges (again) and let out on bail (again) ? Will he find new lawyers to try and bribe the judges with ?

And if they fail (and get thrown in jail themselves, again), will he again flee the country and make another statement like this on on 11 Aug 08:

"A handwritten statement from Thaksin said he fled because he could not expect justice in Thai courts. It came amid newspaper reports that he would seek asylum in Britain."

Remembering that all that took place while a government of his supporters were in charge, and the PAD hadn't started their current round of protests.

Would he sneak off with his tail between his legs (again), take a vacation and then seek a royal pardon (again) ?

Even with a pardon (unlikely at best), his return would still be greeted with protests, possibly even larger and more violent. I don't think the military would view his return very favourably either.

Given that he has been convicted by the highest court in the land, at a time when a government favourable to him was in power, why doesn't the UK boot him out ? He has no valid claim for asylum. He's a convicted criminal fleeing justice.

Sheesh, I've heard of people being denied entry into countries because they had a DUI (drunk driving) conviction years earlier (in their home country).

I wonder what the attitude would be (in the UK government), if he hadn't been the owner of a football club in the UK ?

[animatic]

BEGS? Where did Taksin get on his knees and beg? Beg for forgiveness? I do not see it in the news.

Exactly....was it really necessary to give the thread this title.??

I think we should let that lay. We don't want to have to prefix Thaksin with "The vile criminal despot robber barron country selling.." every time we utter his name do we? Nor the PAD supporters prefix Sonthi with "The devine righteous representative on earth of God, Buddha, Allah, Jehova .."

This is a sign of how polaised this debacle has become

True enough, but on another thread Animatic did condescend to call Sondhi ' a snake ' which was very liberal of him and much appreciated

Where can you get the idea that all or most anti-Thaksin people are

a ) pro PAD 100%

b ) Think of Sondhi as some sort of godhead figure.

c ) that any one expects him to head a government if PPP goes,

d ) that there is this unified PAD = all anti-Thaksin grouped together.

Sorry Charlie no sale doesn't exist, just a PPP boggieman to slam at.

It is more likely that many have finally woken up to the danger of Thaksins,

and so are not AGAINST PAD as a consequence, since they are actively

preventing Thaksin from coming back to take revenge.

The man is a dangerous demogogue and cult of personality manipulator,

with a proven vengeful streak, and 76 billion reasons to not care

if people die top let him get his way.

He is not coming back, if he can, to act democratically, but to rule.

Defend him, and you defend the destruction of society in any image, but the one he chooses.

[geriatrickid]

What is this freak trying to imply?

It's like some kind of bargain going on here.

If there is no royal pardon or forgiveness, he want a major revolution by the public to show the world how powerful he is?

This guy just need to bow out of the scene for you!

Yes either or, in a nutshell.

He wants back in,

he shows no remorse,

he tries to manipulate the one above,

and then threatens the country's stability

if he doesn't get his way.

ALL IN ONE SENTENCE!

Breath taking hubris....

Can you really imagine a man of such morel turpitude in charge again....?

How about some reality? Does anyone think the court proceedings that found him guilty were fair and open? I don't. Just because the verdict is what you want does not mean the trial was free of political interference and a verdict tainted. It's been done against other politicians of various stripes over the years, and it was done to Thaksin. Note that I am not saying there wasn't corruption, but there is a fundamental legal principle about unbiased proceedings.

Remorse? He has repeatedly said he regrets the mistakes made. Does he admit to being corrupt? Nope, so in that respect, there wouldn't be any remorse shown. However, there has yet to be a clean investigation undertaken. maybe Thaksin is as dirty as they come, but, under due process, it hasn't been proven. All I have seen is a what appears to me, a rigged verdict.

He's not the one threatening the nation's stability, I'd say that's PAD and its military junta backers. In any other country, violent protestors that seize public areas are removed. The Thai government has been more than patient with PAD.

Thaksin, knows he can't come back and said as much. He has every right to seek a pardon. Far worse men than him have sought and obtained clemency. However, no pardon has been sought and I doubt it will be sought for at least a year or more.

[Sunderland]

Since he came to power on the back of the Asian currency collapse in the late 90's it could be deja vu, it is more than likely that Thailand will deteriorate dramatically in 2009. Just by the fact of association there will be more than a few happy to see him back.

If the Democrats et al wish to be of any worth they should be getting their heads together to propose strategies and policies that can keep Thailand afloat, instead of floating with the drift of the tide hoping that one tide will be strong enough to wash them ashore. What they really need to be doing is putting the old sails up and pulling the oars out.

Right now we have a government that is stalled at every inch and an opposition that is afraid to open their mouth, lest what they say should offend someone. Half the time they are not even sure who the someone is, so maybe just anyone.

This illustrates the core of the problem, "can't open my mouth because I have to cover my back".

The one thing that Thaksin did do was to open his mouth quite a lot and although most of the time his back was covered, ultimately it was not covered enough.

So without major change you have really got 2 choices, one is Thaksin (or someone equal in power) who will steam ahead and get things done and trample along the way. But at least things do move. The other is to have the option of a leader who will be continually mouth closed and head looking over shoulder. Not really much different than Somchai at the moment except we will be following a path of those that I suspect don't have much idea how to run the country and stay behind pulling strings.

Although money politics isn't pretty , I see it as the only balance against an entrenched power elite. Unless of course you think the latter should be given free rein to tip the scales?

Any takers?

There were some positive developments during his tenure as PM, but try telling the people in Thonburi who have been waiting all these years for the BTS extension to be finished. His 'developments and progress' bought enough popularity in certain areas to ensure he remained in power long enough to increase his personal fortune. Anyone who thinks of Thaksin as some kind of modern day Robin Hood is deluded, as are the PPP and the PAD. Sadly, there seems to be few decent people in politics here, much like the rest of the world. Self. Self. Self.

[Bangyai]

I can say for certain that Thailand is no more or less corrupt this past 8 years than in the 10 years prior to Thaksin's emergence on the scent.

You don't have to be a supporter of Thaksin to dislike the PAD. Please raise your bar when you are posting on here!

If the Democrat leader had a personality and didn't just sit around expecting to be elected, he could have nailed that last election. He is the wettest blanket of a leader I have ever seen in any country, but I would prefer him over Thaksin if it's all the same to you. Not that us falangs will be getting the vote this side of the Andaman Sea freezing over.

I would much prefer a Democrat Government to a TRT/PPP one. But I would prefer a PPP one to a coup or the proposed appointed governemt that the PAD propose.

An appointed government or army coup will not allow the sort of dissent and protests that the PAD/DADD have put on in recent months. They only enshrined this right to protest to hedge agains Thaksin getting elected. They therefore then had the right to immediately undermine his government. They didn't, however, allow for the DADD getting up a monster of an event like this and these rights will go if the Army get back in.

Yes Aphisit and the democrats could have made real progress for themselves if they had given the voters some idea what they themselves had to offer the country. Attaching a trailer to the PAD bandwagon and throwing mud at Thaksin is not much of a political programme. As it is, there must be a large hole in Aphisits back where Sondhi sticks in a big key and winds him up once a week.

[animatic]

What is this freak trying to imply?

It's like some kind of bargain going on here.

If there is no royal pardon or forgiveness, he want a major revolution by the public to show the world how powerful he is?

This guy just need to bow out of the scene for you!

Yes either or, in a nutshell.

He wants back in,

he shows no remorse,

he tries to manipulate the one above,

and then threatens the country's stability

if he doesn't get his way.

ALL IN ONE SENTENCE!

Breath taking hubris....

Can you really imagine a man of such morel turpitude in charge again....?

How about some reality? Does anyone think the court proceedings that found him guilty were fair and open? I don't. Just because the verdict is what you want does not mean the trial was free of political interference and a verdict tainted. It's been done against other politicians of various stripes over the years, and it was done to Thaksin. Note that I am not saying there wasn't corruption, but there is a fundamental legal principle about unbiased proceedings.

Remorse? He has repeatedly said he regrets the mistakes made. Does he admit to being corrupt? Nope, so in that respect, there wouldn't be any remorse shown. However, there has yet to be a clean investigation undertaken. maybe Thaksin is as dirty as they come, but, under due process, it hasn't been proven. All I have seen is a what appears to me, a rigged verdict.

He's not the one threatening the nation's stability, I'd say that's PAD and its military junta backers. In any other country, violent protestors that seize public areas are removed. The Thai government has been more than patient with PAD.

Thaksin, knows he can't come back and said as much. He has every right to seek a pardon. Far worse men than him have sought and obtained clemency. However, no pardon has been sought and I doubt it will be sought for at least a year or more.

So none of his mistakes were criminal eh?

Wrong.

He regrets mistakes like:

Not controling things better.

Like not wiping Sondhi out 100%

Like not hiding the Temasek deal even deeper.

His regrets are crocodile tears to con the gullible.

He knew he was in the shit when he tried to bribe them with pastry box,

and it was returned and his lawyers arrested. Oops, ipso facto guilty verdict coming.

He KNEW he had broken the law and that's why the bribe attempt.

Face it the argument of political interference is lame weak and lacks real substance.

The fact that a bribe was turned down can't be considered political can it?

Actually enforcing the law is political is it?

The law was clear,

he broke it knowingly,

and it was enforced by the courts.

HM said please start applying the laws properly and the courts took that seriously.

Edited November 2, 2008 by animatic

[Denim]

The way to receive a Royal Pardon is to formally request one in a respectful, subdued written application. It is not to request one by broadcasting it openly in a phone call to a mobbed stadium.

As a convicted criminal, he has to apply, but as a current fugitive and when coupled with the consideration that he has (or perhaps he has not, as there are contradictory reports on the issue, like many aspects dealing with Thaksin are) requested political asylum in a foreign country which he did so in a highly insulting and derisive manner to his own country... the odds of a successful Royal Pardon application might appear to be a bit slim.

Did Thaksin ask for a Royal Pardon ??? I don't thinks so.

[animatic]

The way to receive a Royal Pardon is to formally request one in a respectful, subdued written application. It is not to request one by broadcasting it openly in a phone call to a mobbed stadium.

As a convicted criminal, he has to apply, but as a current fugitive and when coupled with the consideration that he has (or perhaps he has not, as there are contradictory reports on the issue, like many aspects dealing with Thaksin are) requested political asylum in a foreign country which he did so in a highly insulting and derisive manner to his own country... the odds of a successful Royal Pardon application might appear to be a bit slim.

Did Thaksin ask for a Royal Pardon ??? I don't thinks so.

It was directly implied by saying that is one of his ways back.

[thaigene2]

Geriatrickid - careful. We're not allowed to criticize the court's decision or slander the judges (I wish I was joking, but it's true). It's just another one of those things you can't do in Thailand that coincidentally allows the upper classes to have their way without scrutiny - and carry on as they please. Now whatever happened to the rich kid, the Benz and the dead and injured bus passengers?

Edited November 2, 2008 by thaigene2