Thaksin Begs For "Royal Kindness"

[animatic]

BEGS? Where did Taksin get on his knees and beg? Beg for forgiveness? I do not see it in the news.

Exactly....was it really necessary to give the thread this title.??

I think we should let that lay. We don't want to have to prefix Thaksin with "The vile criminal despot robber barron country selling.." every time we utter his name do we? Nor the PAD supporters prefix Sonthi with "The devine righteous representative on earth of God, Buddha, Allah, Jehova .."

This is a sign of how polaised this debacle has become

True enough, but on another thread Animatic did condescend to call Sondhi ' a snake ' which was very liberal of him and much appreciated

Where can you get the idea that all or most anti-Thaksin people are

a ) pro PAD 100%

b ) Think of Sondhi as some sort of godhead figure.

c ) that any one expects him to head a government if PPP goes,

d ) that there is this unified PAD = all anti-Thaksin grouped together.

Sorry Charlie no sale doesn't exist, just a PPP boggieman to slam at.

It is more likely that many have finally woken up to the danger of Thaksins,

and so are not AGAINST PAD as a consequence, since they are actively

preventing Thaksin from coming back to take revenge.

The man is a dangerous demogogue and cult of personality manipulator,

with a proven vengeful streak, and 76 billion reasons to not care

if people die top let him get his way.

He is not coming back, if he can, to act democratically, but to rule.

Defend him, and you defend the destruction of society in any image, but the one he chooses.

Eeeee oop chuck, sorry....I missed this riposte of yours earlier as I was rushing out for some seafood so I've only just noticed it.

Now lets see ...... from this I gather that :

a ) You are not pro Pad 100 %

b ) You don't think Sondhi is a Godhead ( just a means to an end ?? )

c ) That you don't think he'll ever lead a govournment ( phew )

d ) Er...a bit vague this...that not everyone who hates Thaksin likes PAD ??

Well, I'm glad to hear it !! As for the rest....well

a ) Not everyone who hates the PAD loves Thaksin

b ) A lot of people who don't trust Thaksin trust the PADs ideas even less.

c ) Not every anti PAD remark is a pro Thaksin one

d ) Seafood is good for you if you don't have to wait half an hour for it.

As for the dangerous demogogue and cult of personality manipulator with a proven vengeful streak etc etc.......blimey....thats old Sondhi in one !!! GOAAAAAAAALLLL

P.S. My apologies for the smileys ??? I didn't put them there ???

Letter b space key then ) voila no smilies.

I won't dispute that Sondhi and Thaksin are two sides of a similar personality coin.

I got to say though that Thaksin lit the match first. He could have kept a valuable ally,

or created a vengeful enemy with skills. He did the latter. To his detriment.

Who was it said this great quote for those in power :

"Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."

Sondhi is 'Thaksinsteins Monster'!

He created this grotesque and it terrified the towns folk

who tore down Thaksin's castle and ran him off.

Ahhhh so....thanks for the tip... Wasted 5 minutes trying to bump them off !! ( smileys )

Well , I thought Thaksin was behind a lot of Sondhis debt being wiped off the slate so I think he tried to keep him as an ally but Sondhi was still left in a 200 million hole and felt his old buddy should have done more. Still, 1600 million.....better than a box of chocolates and a bunch of roses !!

Nice analogy with the monster thing....trouble is , now that Thaksins been run off, who's gonna put the monster and the monsters creation under wraps.

Something to sleep on zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz nighty night.

He may have been run out of the valley, but he is still around in the hills

lobbing big rocks onto the town...

Sondhi was greatly responsible for a HUGE chunk of Thaksin's working capital.

And he no doubt thought doubling Thaksins large investment and then buying him,

or at least arranging a buy out out was worth something down the line.

I would too.

This more than put Thaksin in another tax bracket, but into a brand new ball park.

And social status, worth as much or more.

BUT, the twiwst,

no doubts when Sondhi was doing the competing telephone and Lao Satalite deals

he suddenly came back on Thaksin's radar as a real threat to Shin Corp profit.

ANOTHER SE Asian satalite right here in his market....

Old favors be damned, he wanted to win and when opportunitey presented itself,

made dam_n sure Sondhi didn't stay at the same competitive level Thaksin was at.

Best ways was make sure he is over-loaded with debt. Don't bring him in on the

pre-devaluation swap out to harder currencies... a BIG stiffing of an old friend.

Then screwed him some more, particularly as his ego grew greater, and Sondhi got more vocal.

I really think THIS is the crux of their bad feeling and the basis for WHY Sondhi

was a perfect pitbull to run Thaksin out. He is far from the only one wanting him out,

but a determined and talented point man.

Like I said Thaksonstein's Monster.

ALL businessmen at this level are snakes. Nature of the beast.

But regardless a Nu how Thai Cobra is one hel_l of a serious beast to fuc_k with....

I know because I MET one in my house...

Edited November 2, 2008 by animatic

[sriracha john]

No reconciliation

Saturday's speech has reinforced the belief that he is the same old Thaksin, before the coup and after the coup - a man who blames everyone else but himself for the misfortunes that have befallen him and his family. He began with a cynical snipe at the justice system and democracy. "Sawasdee, Tharn Veera and every Thai national, wish to say that love democracy and love justice so much. Today pleased there are so many of you here." After the short preamble, he went right to his usual self-pitying rhetoric. "The people love you so much," said Veera Musikhapong, a UDD core leader and moderator of the phone-in program. "They give me huge moral support to ease my sufferings and enable me to stay on. There are people who said that a victimised person like me would be considered tough enough to stay alive. Without your moral support, I would not have survived until today," said Thaksin. Minus a brief call for reconciliation at the end of the program, Thaksin's rhetoric was mostly about himself and his family, about how they were unfairly treated by what he mocked as krabuankarn yuti kwam pen tham (literally, the process to end justice) instead of krabuankarn yutitham (judicial process), about his multi-billion baht assets which have been frozen here in Thailand. He also blamed the coup makers two years ago for being the original cause of today's political turmoil and social division. And last but not least, he pleaded with his supporters to seek a royal pardon to bring him home. "Only royal kindness can bring me home," he told his audience. To the relief of all concerned, Thaksin omitted mentioning the "privileged elite" whom he earlier accused of ganging up on him. Thaksin's speech has reinforced his doubters' belief that he has not changed - and will never change. Take for example the 2-year jail term Thaksin has been slapped with and is evading - it was imposed on him without a legitimate case, he tried to convince his supporters. The verdict did not stem from any abuse of power on his part under the Criminal Code as he pointed out, but stemmed from his breach of ethical conduct as stipulated in the anti-corruption law which came into force before he assumed the premiership. This code of conduct was intended to prevent politicians from fattening their wallets through conflict of interests or corrupt government policies that are tailored for their benefit. No politician these days would be so stupid as to demand bribes outright from business people. That is an old-fashioned corrupt practice. Against widespread anxiety and expectations, Thaksin's speech has not helped in improving the prospects for reconciliation.

Commentary by Veera Prateepchaikul, Deputy-Editor-in-Chief, Post Publishing Co Ltd. continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131794

Edited November 3, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Thaksin's speech to be scrutinized

Many say his remarks fuel confrontation

Several parties have stepped in to examine whether the remarks made by former PM Thaksin during a phone-in are in breach of the law. His remarks were widely seen as stoking the confrontation in society. In one of the most controversial parts of his speech, he said: "No one can bring me home apart from royal kindness or the power of the people." He also talked about the "injustice" in Thailand which he said had caused him suffering. Supreme Commander Songkitti Chakkrabat said he needed to check the full details of Thaksin's address. "The armed forces will not stand idle if Thaksin's remarks are found to have offended the royal institution," Gen Songkitti said. Udomdej Krairit, President of the Lawyers Council, said the council has made a record of Thaksin's remarks during the political talk show to see if his words had tarnished the reputation of the judiciary. Democrat Party Spokesman Buranat Samuttharak said if Thaksin wanted to seek a royal pardon, he had to accept the court's verdict and the punishment given to him first. He had to accept the judicial proceedings and defend himself in a court of law. Under the constitution, Thaksin has 30 days to appeal *17 days left* to the Supreme Court against the verdict in the Ratchadaphisek land case if he can produce new evidence challenging the verdict. However, Pongthep Thepkanjana, a Personal Spokesman for Thaksin, confirmed that the former PM had no plans to seek a royal pardon for his two-year jail sentence in the Ratchadaphisek case. Pongthep said as soon as he gets hold of a copy of the court's verdict, he will discuss a possible appeal with Thaksin.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/031108_News/03Nov2008_news03.php

==============================================================

2 previous entries worth noting regarding the banned Pongthep...

first... how reliable a spokesman for Thaksin is he in voicing what Thaksin did or did not mean in his speech? Just the day before, he wasn't even sure if Thaksin was going to give a speech... Additionally, instead of simply stating that he didn't mean a Royal Pardon... he could share with everyone what Thaksin DID mean....

One of 111 banned TRT Party executives, former TRT MP Phongthep Thepkanchana

Thaksin's Spokesman Not Sure about Live Phone-In

Personal Spokesperson for former premier Thaksin Shinawatra (TRT Banned #1) says he is still unsure whether his boss will make the planned phone-in to a pro-government gathering tomorrow.

Thaksin Shinawatra's spokesman Pongthep Thepkanjana (TRT Banned #10) said he cannot predict whether Thaksin will make a phone call to the pro-government gathering tomorrow.

and secondly... if he's waiting for a copy of the Supreme Court verdict, perhaps the clueless spokesman should simply go online and get it...

The Supreme Court has posted on its website (www.supremecourt.or.th) an electronic version of the complete 39-page verdict in the Ratchadaphisek land scandal case.

Edited November 3, 2008 by sriracha john

[Loaded]

To receive a Royal pardon you must admit your guilt first. Something Thaksin hasn't and won't do. He's just playing a game.

[KhaoNiaw]

The Thai media are stifled and cannot report the truth - EVERYONE IN THE WORLD NOW KNOWS THIS NOW

And Thaksin was responsible for setting the country back years in this respect.

If he could have handled some criticism and dissent things could have turned out differently

[old wanderer]

I am unaware of any Royal Pardon being given prior to the person being actually in Jail.

Anyone know of a case?

It would do the Thai country good, if he were in prison for some term, as well as the corrup family that have now been convicted as well....a thing that is almost never mentioned on this forum.

[animatic]

The Thai media are stifled and cannot report the truth - EVERYONE IN THE WORLD NOW KNOWS THIS NOW

And Thaksin was responsible for setting the country back years in this respect.

If he could have handled some criticism and dissent things could have turned out differently

Ditto for sure.

" I AM the government, you can't criticize me!" < PM Thaksin Shinawatra 2006

"It doesn't matter if [he] (cabinet minister jumping ship)... quits,

I am the only one who does any work here anyway."

Surrounded my ass-kissing psycophants and spineless Yes Men,

while silencing the press, and losing track of reality...< PM Thaksin Shinawatra 2006

The only difference now is that the Thai Press is freed to talk about Thaksin in the negative,

not 'just' in the positive, as he strongly pressured all the press to do during his tenure as PM.

The difference between the B. Post's news coverage pre and post Thaksin was like night and day.

Like a door was opened and the light let in.

They were stiffled by him big time; both economically by presuring advertisers to stop,

or by direct Billion Baht Law Suits, he got one editor fired for an essentially true story.

Anyone who actualy read more than on paper in the last 4 years

could see the change towards greater freedom of the press.

[Journalist]

He has done a fine job of controling Thai though for some time.

When that control wavered, so did HIS image.

Who are you referring to?

[geriatrickid]

Geriatrickid - careful. We're not allowed to criticize the court's decision or slander the judges (I wish I was joking, but it's true). It's just another one of those things you can't do in Thailand that coincidentally allows the upper classes to have their way without scrutiny - and carry on as they please. Now whatever happened to the rich kid, the Benz and the dead and injured bus passengers?

Duly noted. (Thank you.) Allow me to rephrase and to clarify; To me and I think alot of other people, the issue is not guilty or not guilty. It was the matter of due process. I find it hypocritical that some farangs are celebrating this court decision and yet are the same ones to yell out accusations of tampering when a verdict is given in other cases that they disagree with. You have provided an excellent example of the snot nose kid and his mercedes.

Justice must be consistent and transparent for it to carry the authority it needs. I do not know if that is the case here.

At the end of the day though, I think what matters are the perceptions of people and right now, based upon my discussions with friends from outside Bangkok, the view is unanimous that the verdict was not fair. On the other hand, those from Bangkok say it was.

The only good think about all this is that it keeps Thaksin away for a bit so things can cool down.

[AlKing]

If you examin carefully, a lot of the RED were also the YELLOW. They came over from the PM office, get their red T-shirt and 300 Baht. Quick and easy one evening job. Once finish, they change back to YELOW and collect their 300 Baht from PM office that night.

Colour doesn't matter. Politic doesn't matter. As longer as there is money, they will be there. Sure beat slaving in the shoe factories.

I have a Chinese friend in Mae Klong fish market (Samut Songkram). She said that illegal Myanmese working is getting harder and harder to get (usual pay is only 100 Baht/day), many have gone to Bangkok as a paid protestor / guard.

[geriatrickid]

The Supreme Court has posted on its website (www.supremecourt.or.th) an electronic version of the complete 39-page verdict in the Ratchadaphisek land scandal case.

Historic decision in a way and an attempt to substantiate the court's decision. This suggests to me that my earlier comments are valid as there are concerns as to the transparency of the process. A goodmove by the court to post the information

[clausewitz]

90,000 people is a respectable number, though quite a few to pack in to a stadium that seats 70,000.

You do know that there were thousands more on the open field where there are no seats. The total was referring to both those in seats and those without. A peaceful rally, the organisers paid for the stadium and did everything to make sure it did not inconvenience anyone in Bangkok. Yet on this thread PAD cultists are complaining about it. Try to look at the what PAD does, and how they go about it (leaving aside their idiotic anti democracy rants).

[animatic]

He has done a fine job of controling Thai though for some time.

When that control wavered, so did HIS image.

Who are you referring to?

Thaksin and his hobbling of the press during his tenure.

[Journalist]

^Well he bought heavily into the Thai media, which gave him editorial influence locally.

But the foreign press remained unaffected. Nowadays, having local press control doesn't make one as omnipotent as hitherto.

[AlKing]

90,000 people is a respectable number, though quite a few to pack in to a stadium that seats 70,000.

You do know that there were thousands more on the open field where there are no seats. The total was referring to both those in seats and those without. A peaceful rally, the organisers paid for the stadium and did everything to make sure it did not inconvenience anyone in Bangkok. Yet on this thread PAD cultists are complaining about it. Try to look at the what PAD does, and how they go about it (leaving aside their idiotic anti democracy rants).

I second that.

[AlKing]

Los78

Any group with a bit of cash (and nobody doubts that Thaksin's mob has access to cash) can put some asses in seats for a night. No telling if many of them believed in anything being presented, though I am sure some did!

It does take some serious belief in something to show up, day after day, night after night, month after month in all kinds of weather.

I have no doubt that some people really are so blind that they don't see the problems that Thaksin created. Obviously some people even in this forum don't understand that you can't call something a democracy when the elections are rigged. You can't call a leader democratic if he tears down the institutions that uphold the democratic process like the courts etc. Thaksin started as a leader in a Democracy and ended up as an 'elected?' dictator ... that just is not democracy anywhere

The YELLOW will remian in their strong hold even if Tsunami hits Bangkok; that is, as long as the day rate continue to be competitives. Once the money and food runs out, that will be a real test who would still support the YELLOW (or the RED for than matter).

[Koo82]

Koo82 .... most Thais get the news from Gov't owned and controlled news sources .... not from ASTV and the other couple of not free news sources.

Very dangerous that people listened to the ASTV for 2 years after Khun Thaksin went. They think Khun Thaksin was very ugly.

Dangerous that people get an opinion OTHER than that from the Gov't controlled and owned news sources? Yes, information can be dangerous!

ASTV delivers many wrong information and is an anti-government channel.

[Journalist]

"Thaksin started as a leader in a Democracy and ended up as an 'elected?' dictator ... that just is not democracy anywhere"

I don't agree. Politicians who get voted in in any country with landslides and wide parliamentary majprities have enormous latitude to legislate as they see fit.

And I am tired of people droning on about how he wasn't democratically elected because THB500 notes changed hands. To me, that is only a more ham-fisted way of making promises of identical tax breaks to your constituency after you're in office. Yes there is a difference, but its not as gaping as some would infer.

Right now Chamlong Srimuang seems to think he can dictate who should and should not be the Prime Minister. I can't see where he gets his legitimacy from.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Journalist

[sriracha john]

I am unaware of any Royal Pardon being given prior to the person being actually in Jail.

Anyone know of a case?

It would do the Thai country good, if he were in prison for some term, as well as the corrupt family that have now been convicted as well....a thing that is almost never mentioned on this forum.

I've posted it before, but agree, it's infrequently discussed...

People complain about corruption endlessly and how it's ingrained into the society and culture. Imagine the positive progress that could be made in changing this institutional corruption were the Shinawatra clan (father, mother, three children, mother's brother, and the father's sister) to each end up with 30 year prison sentences on the plethora of charges against them.

That sort of action would advance the ability of this country to finally start putting the brakes to this endless cycle of wholesale thievery tremendously.

It could advance this country untold decades in that regard.

[AlKing]

Doesn't really matter much how few there were - it was a p!ss poor turn-out any way as a show of support for the Kengsington kid and the pretend goverment he is running from afar. For one who believes he has the majority of the country on his side it now seems he is badly mistaken considering you can get more attending a sporting event -- and for that you have to pay your own way.

It would be interesting to know how many of his lackies would still be round after after a continuous 160 or so days seeing as how most couldn't stay past their bed time last night.

Please keep Kensington out of this. It is affecting my neighbourhood.

[Journalist]

^^ No progress whatsoever, its just making an example of one person. (Unless its 30 years for every miscreant in Thailand). Everyone ielse just carries on with their dirty deals and scams.

However as we're now rewriting the penal code, why not death sentences for all the Shinawatra clan and their family pets ? That'll learn 'em.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Journalist

[philo]

What a pathetic Toxin lowlife: It greets people who loves democracy...

Here is what it said back then about that democracy is not a goal, but a means to ...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-demo...Goal-t4293.html

[Plus]

To me and I think alot of other people, the issue is not guilty or not guilty. It was the matter of due process.

Just listen to what you say - "I don't care whether he was corrupt/child molester/rapist/pervert/mass murderer etc etc, I only care about due process of bringing him to justice".

And what is "due process" anyway? There's no absolute degree here, it's only approximation at best, and like it or not, but when Thaksin was in power judiciary was completely compromised and subverted. The Ratchada case, in which he was undeniably guilty, could not even be started, let alone passed through the trial.

And yes, I agree that for large number of Thais Thaksin's crimes are forgivable and unimportant, and he should be exonerated of any wrongding simply by virtue of his status.

Luckly, there's also large number of Thais put honesty and principles first, it's not a complete jungle out there.

[Plus]

Everyone ielse just carries on with their dirty deals and scams.

That is absolutely not true. The government is now under a lot more scrutiny than ever, it's nearly impossible to hide anything as there are informants ready to pass any juicy information to both sides, yet the number of scandals has been very very low for the past two years.

During this year one big questionable project, buses for Bangkok, was completley scrapped, and there are only two more potential scams in the making - price fixing for rice and longan and corn. There was a lot of pressure on rice policy and it has been significantly trimmed, and longan/corn deal might not even realise.

In Thaksin days it was a scandal a day, like a clock.

[Samuian]

Right now Chamlong Srimuang seems to think he can dictate who should and should not be the Prime Minister. I can't see where he gets his legitimacy from.

At least he has a history bringing down Gen.Suchinda successfully!

Still nobody is really doing anything much about him or any other leader in the PAD, strange isn't it?

Seems that there is a silent acceptance, for the PAD as a counterweight, for much needed check and balance, regarding the proper governance of this country.

While the current government seems busy to do everything possible to show that the PAD's presence is

somewhat legitimate, at least rectified by this governments performance!

Edited November 3, 2008 by Samuian

[AlKing]

Right now Chamlong Srimuang seems to think he can dictate who should and should not be the Prime Minister. I can't see where he gets his legitimacy from.

At least he has a history bringing down Gen.Suchinda successfully!

Still nobody is really doing anything much about him or any other leader in the PAD, strange isn't it?

Seems that there is a silent acceptance, for the PAD as a counterweight, for much needed check and balance, regarding the proper governance of this country.

While the current government seems busy to do everything possible to show that the PAD's presence is

somewhat legitimate, at least rectified by this governments performance!

PAD cannot be brought down. It has a very strong backing from ... ..... (sorry i cannot mention, know want to re-register again).

Edited November 3, 2008 by AlKing

[Jai Dee]

Below are some photographs from the demonstration prior to Thaksin's phone call that didn't make it into the press...

[animatic]

Koo82 .... most Thais get the news from Gov't owned and controlled news sources .... not from ASTV and the other couple of not free news sources.

Very dangerous that people listened to the ASTV for 2 years after Khun Thaksin went. They think Khun Thaksin was very ugly.

Dangerous that people get an opinion OTHER than that from the Gov't controlled and owned news sources? Yes, information can be dangerous!

ASTV delivers many wrong information and is an anti-government channel.

Which nicely balances the Pro-goverrnment STATIONS

that also deliver much wrong information.

ying-yang, left-right, up-down, good-bad.

Can't have one without the other.

[younghusband]

To me and I think alot of other people, the issue is not guilty or not guilty. It was the matter of due process.

Just listen to what you say - "I don't care whether he was corrupt/child molester/rapist/pervert/mass murderer etc etc, I only care about due process of bringing him to justice".

And what is "due process" anyway? There's no absolute degree here, it's only approximation at best, and like it or not, but when Thaksin was in power judiciary was completely compromised and subverted. The Ratchada case, in which he was undeniably guilty, could not even be started, let alone passed through the trial.

And yes, I agree that for large number of Thais Thaksin's crimes are forgivable and unimportant, and he should be exonerated of any wrongding simply by virtue of his status.

Luckly, there's also large number of Thais put honesty and principles first, it's not a complete jungle out there.

This is all fair comment, and I suppose the silver lining to this crisis is that among potential malefactors there will I assume currently be extreme nervousness - kill the chicken to scare the monkey if you like.The catch is of course that Thailand is not suddenly going to change its political and business culture.If there were a series of high profile cases taking down corrupt businessmen (and since this is Thailnd that would include miltary officers) or politicians that weren't in any way linked to the Thaksin axis, that would be reassuring.Until then the impression remains that the spoils will simply be available to those more in favour.On a slightly different tack I don't get the impression than the senior bureaucrats and army officers are losing any sleep who after a lifetime on miniscule salaries have nevertheless accumulated millions of dollars in assets.

[Samuian]

There is nothing benign about parking tanks downtown to announce that you have deposed an elected governement.

Then, if the culprit can claim enough popularity, blank check?

Can rob the bank, we are not calling the cops, let him do what he likes and lets applaude, right?

His come back has been massively rigged, it wasn't for the PPP, the coalition under the PPP umbrella made his "popular comeback" possible.

Besides just look who is who, of the ousted Government, who was who in the TRT, why have they formed a clear visible shadow government, what are they up to and on all about ?

Many of them are BANNED by law from politics, why do they keep on meeting in "the war" room in a Shin.Corp building?

get real!

from xinghua press

.........edit... Perhaps the 90,000, who presumably believe criminality is an acceptable aspect of populism, reflect those who say they don't care.

We are starting to hear the language of moral equivalence, as we did during the Cold War, when Soviet dictatorship was seen to be morally equivalent to US imperialism. Now we are presented with the UDD as the legitimate equivalent of PAD, but the PAD leaders have not been charged or convicted on any grounds of corruption or theft. ......edit...... The UDD and their PPP backers seem to have only one agendum, to overturn the law and the constitution in favour of their Leader, a man whose criminality has been established, but whose resources can buy him loyalty in a patronal society.

Well-resourced political leaders throughout the world have always been able to mobilize the numbers. It tells us nothing about minorities or majorities.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Samuian