No To Homosexuality

[elkangorito]

"No to homosexuality".

It's the second article.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/011108_News/01Nov2008_news25.php

[Ijustwannateach]

What a nutter.

[endure]

Same old, same old. It's been said before by bigoted donkeys and it'll be said again.

[onni4me]

No to homosexuality

Re: The article ''Gay Natee'' in the Outlook section, BP, Oct 27. There are several things your article, with its pro-gay stance, failed to mention. The majority of people are opposed to homosexuality, and rightly so, due to their 1. religious convictions whether Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist or Christian. The article fails to point out that what is defined as homosexuality is two men having sex with each other (or two women), and 2. that is wrong in most people's eyes. Even the top Buddhist monk in Thailand has condemned this behaviour as going against the traditional Buddhist teachings of 3. sexual purity.

It is sad to see Thailand over the years becoming more and more accepting of homosexual behaviour and the massive increase of homosexuality in Thailand 4. compared to its neighbouring countries.

The article also failed to mention the large number of ex-homosexuals who have left the morally destructive lifestyle of homosexual behaviour, through the help of many ex-homosexual groups such as 5. Exodus International and Parents, Friends of Ex-Gays (PFOX), and religious communities.

It is a disservice to homosexuals when their behaviour is admired rather than condemned, since understanding that there is a problem is the first step in correcting it. Instead, many fall under the ''politically correct curse'' or pressure from radical homosexual activist groups to accept this activity.

CHAD WILLIAMS

Chiang Mai

Reply from Editor of Outlook: Mr Williams, I think you have completely mistaken the intention of our story when you say our stance is ''pro-gay". The story is not advocating gays or religious stands on sexual behaviour, nor what is right and wrong in terms of sexual behaviour. We are talking about human rights, equal rights as a human being to any public service, and the discriminatory nature of those who judge others based on their personal sexual identity and preferences

====================

Yes, what a load of bull again. Personally I would like to serve him a Straight-Exodus boot camp where Mr Chad would be made a homosexual since that is praised to be the easy way...

1. I have more and more detest to any religion that is aimed against any personal quality. They might also suggest that being disabled is a curse from God or that short-sighted people don't deserve to live. Or that there is a holy teapot circulating Earth somewhere near the moon... I really recommend that Richard Dawkins book 'The God Delusion' to anyone that likes to hit gays with any religion. This is the cause why I don't belong to any church or religious organization - they are full of biggots. Muslims - if I understand correct - do kill homosexuals. We are such a big threat to all religions, indeed we are.

2. Yes, 'in the eye of the most people'...so sad. Any statistic here? Or is this Chad's own view of the thing? Or his beloving and accepting Judeo-Christian Kill-The-Gay sects view? I could say that in my opinion majority is the problem, not the minority. Why don't I rush to condemn straight guys and say that they should "be cured"? Never mind if they would suffer. Thats the gay God's purpose of life...

3. Sexual purity? Meaning NO SEX, I guess. There is a similarity between Buddhism and - let's say - puritanism, and that is that they actually denounce life on Earth. Why? They both seem to wait for better life in the Heavens and consider everything here on Earth dirty and disgusting and...let me say it...SIN!!! Yes, everything is SIN!!! Get it? So they both are anti-human life, anti-happiness, anti-gay (of course! We might have some questions for them). Basicly everything that deviates from "normality" is a curse since it challenges their views. People should be pushed down to dirt from the purity of the (religious) ruling elite. That serves them right.

4. Any statistics here??? Or just an opinion??? I see no much difference between countries except that in Thailand things are more easy than - let's say - Burma, communist Laos or even Cambodia. Massive increase? What is this guy talking about? Maybe he is becoming gay???

5. Exodus and its alike have brought nothing but suffering and even death upon those who have been its victims. Anyone suggesting that one can change being something else by 'teaching or helping' to do so should go and try it him/herself. Chad! Be gay! Its the right way. I and my firends can gather and help you overcome your problems hiding the truth!

Funnily the founding member of US Exodus said that the cause of being gay is due to 'bad families'. His son is gay and used to be in charge of gay issues of Clinton administration. Such bad family!

Psychologists have denounced these kind of therapies as harmful and there is no evidence to show that they work. There is plenty of evidence that they do cause mental problems and suicides. Thanks to people like Chad. Burn in hel_l!!!

[PeaceBlondie]

It is only a bigot writing a letter to the editor, and the editor quickly refutes the unsubstantiated claims of the bigot. It is only a prejudiced, slanted opinion, stated without statistics or even Scriptural citations.

I encourage our readers, both straight and gay, to write the Post Bag yourself, with an informed, more positive opinion.

[endure]

Or even better, ignore it altogether. Why give an audience to fools? Notice that it's almost always farangs that write this nonsense. Most Thais simply don't care.

[elkangorito]

The article in question mentions, "Even the top Buddhist monk in Thailand has condemned this behaviour as going against the traditional Buddhist teachings of sexual purity."

Is this true? Do traditional Buddhist teachings condemn homosexual behaviour or is this simply one persons view on the subject? The fact that this person is/was purported to be the "top Buddhist monk in Thailand" could easily sway many people into believing such rubbish.

Will Buddhism blindly follow the narrow mindedness of the other "wonderful & humane" religions? It's such a shame that Buddhism is now seen as a religion. I preferred it when it was an "ideal of life" & not taken over by the power hungry control freaks.

[onni4me]

The article in question mentions, "Even the top Buddhist monk in Thailand has condemned this behaviour as going against the traditional Buddhist teachings of sexual purity."

Is this true? Do traditional Buddhist teachings condemn homosexual behaviour or is this simply one persons view on the subject? The fact that this person is/was purported to be the "top Buddhist monk in Thailand" could easily sway many people into believing such rubbish.

Will Buddhism blindly follow the narrow mindedness of the other "wonderful & humane" religions? It's such a shame that Buddhism is now seen as a religion. I preferred it when it was an "ideal of life" & not taken over by the power hungry control freaks.

My bf told me couple of days ago that there were some writing about homosexuality vs. Buddhism and some revered old fart had obviously stated that gays can never be truly enlightened since they can not go over their sexuality. Nice!

This has not been an issue in the older times. There were an article last year (?) in Bangkok Post that a Thai historian, a lady, was telling that being gay is not something coming from abroad since there were so many images preserved for latter generations from older times depicting homosexual behavior both male and female.

Buddha (or the texts that have survived) never mentions gays specifically. Only that one shouldn't get involved in sex "too overwhelmingly". Whatever that means. Buddhism, as stated before, idealizes refusal of this world over the becoming 'bliss'. So it is not suggesting we should enjoy ourselves here in the light of later reward.

I see this kind of interpretation just another way of trying to put us gay people down. Many traditional Thais have realized that their antic 'values' can not survive in this world of change. Instead, they try to find someone to blame. Gays are the perfect scapegoat for them. We demoralize the youth, we split families, blah blah blah...

I also raise my eyebrows when seeing the worship of Buddha. He obviously stated that he should not be worshipped or followed and that everyone should find their own way to become happy. Not to follow any given rules or dogmas. Sounds better in theory than in practis, but nothing new there folks.

[elkangorito]

Buddhism, as stated before, idealizes refusal of this world over the becoming 'bliss'. So it is not suggesting we should enjoy ourselves here in the light of later reward.

I'm not quite sure I understand your meaning. Can you please simplify?

To my way of thinking, sex/sexuality is the most direct connection to the source of all things. The only thing that attempts to block or limit this connection is "man" & his rules & regulations

EDIT:

According to my ex-boyfriend (Australian aboriginal), Australian aborigines never recognised homosexuality as a bad thing. Instead, they saw it as a variation of the "norm" & something not to be feared since it did not threaten the survival of anybody.

Currently, Australian aborigines are considered to be the oldest living race/group on earth - 40 000 years.

Edited November 2, 2008 by elkangorito

[onni4me]

Buddhism, as stated before, idealizes refusal of this world over the becoming 'bliss'. So it is not suggesting we should enjoy ourselves here in the light of later reward.

I'm not quite sure I understand your meaning. Can you please simplify?

To my way of thinking, sex/sexuality is the most direct connection to the source of all things. The only thing that attempts to block or limit this connection is "man" & his rules & regulations.

3. Sexual purity? Meaning NO SEX, I guess. There is a similarity between Buddhism and - let's say - puritanism, and that is that they actually denounce life on Earth. Why? They both seem to wait for better life in the Heavens and consider everything here on Earth dirty and disgusting and...let me say it...SIN!!! Yes, everything is SIN!!! Get it? So they both are anti-human life, anti-happiness, anti-gay (of course! We might have some questions for them). Basicly everything that deviates from "normality" is a curse since it challenges their views. People should be pushed down to dirt from the purity of the (religious) ruling elite. That serves them right.

I agree with you that sex/sexuality is the direct way to the center of being human. That is probably why religions so often concentrate controlling it. Very efficient, indeed. I just simply meant that rules&regulations are so often meant NOT TO MAKE US HAPPY. What would the world be if we just would happily enjoy our sexuality? At least the clergy would be out of work, haha.

[elkangorito]

Buddhism, as stated before, idealizes refusal of this world over the becoming 'bliss'. So it is not suggesting we should enjoy ourselves here in the light of later reward.

I'm not quite sure I understand your meaning. Can you please simplify?

To my way of thinking, sex/sexuality is the most direct connection to the source of all things. The only thing that attempts to block or limit this connection is "man" & his rules & regulations.

3. Sexual purity? Meaning NO SEX, I guess.

Are you sure about this Buddhist "sexual purity" thing or are you guessing?

[Ijustwannateach]

Not all Buddhists are the same... for a fairly extended period in Japan, homosexuality was idealised to a certain extent among the priests because it was considered more compatible with the monkhood than relationships with women (a misogynist viewpoint, but just as an illustration).

[onni4me]

3. Sexual purity? Meaning NO SEX, I guess.

Are you sure about this Buddhist "sexual purity" thing or are you guessing?

Well, as said the ideology of Buddhism begins from the point that one should not attach himself to anything earthly because everything changes (floats like a river, constant change). Also, wanting something is the beginning of suffering. So, what is the logical conclusion? To obtain doing anything or attaching oneself to anything.

Doesn't it sound very heavenly? But quite far from the normal daily problems of us sinners...

[PeaceBlondie]

Let's see if I understand this.

Many so-called Buddhists do not follow the teachings of the Lord Buddha or modern Buddhist leaders.

The Buddha himself said little if anything against same-sex behaviour.

Many modern Buddhist teachers are more generally against all sexual conduct, even by married folks, than they are against gay behaviour itself?

[geriatrickid]

What some people are losing sight of is that it's all about perceptions. When many Thais think of homosexuality they think of the young boys selling their bodies in Bangkok, Pattaya and Patong. it's offensive to alot of Thais. I'm not going to tangent off into the ethics of the business, rather my point is that's what alot of people think of. It colors their perceptions.

Now, if the subject was about same sex relationships between Thais, I doubt there would be as much concern. However, I have noticed a real negative position attached to the concept of homosexuals lately. Look, I'm not saying homos bad, and no one in his right mind should get offended by 2 guys in love, if it really is love and not the product of what we know passes for love in alot of places. I have a gut feeling this has a lot to do with the perception of deviant "western" activities and influences taking hold. I took a walk along the beach today, which was a 1st in ages. I was sort of surprised to see all sorts of aged ladies topless. It really was a disgusting sight. Now you say, what's the connection. Well, when Thais see the topless fat grannies, they get the perception that western women are debauched as well and you can get the same backlash.

I was out with my friends the other night. I am always amazed by how comfortable my friends are with being gay. All of their families know and it's no biggie. Would there families disown them, condemn them, go off on a just say No rampage? Nope. Now if I showed up at my friend's place, and we announced that i was his new farang lover, I thing his parents would kill me. It's as if I'd have been the one to contaminate their son.

There has been a fair increase of classy male couples into Patong lately. poster boys for good gay tourists if you will. Well behaved, no groping, no elderly pervs, even a couple old LTR gay couples, just really nice looking normal people. If there were more of those people around, I don't think, the perceptions would be so bad.

[Scott]

The guy sounds like a troll. I could care less--I am at the point in my existence where I just can't be bothered by people who don't like gays. It's sad, but there are plenty of ignorant people and I just can't be bothered to educate them. My only response to him would be something like: Now that you've learned to write, trying learning to think!

[Jingthing]

There has been a fair increase of classy male couples into Patong lately. poster boys for good gay tourists if you will. Well behaved, no groping, no elderly pervs, even a couple old LTR gay couples, just really nice looking normal people. If there were more of those people around, I don't think, the perceptions would be so bad.

Hmmm. Let me get this straight. I am in my 50's. I should pair up with another 50 plus year old farang or Thai even though they don't attract me, to improve the general perceptions in Thai society of gays and farangs? I am just asking ... because I wouldn't want to be one of those "bad" gays, as I agree it is of the utmost importance that we all live our lives with complete adherence to the appearances of bourgeois respectability ... to be a credit to the farang "race" and our people, the "gays" who of course are in complete solidarity with each other. So there!

I just thought of something even better. How about we all marry nice non-prostitute women of appropriate age and have five children and buy a big house in the suburbs? That would make us gays look even better.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

What some people are losing sight of is that it's all about perceptions. When many Thais think of homosexuality they think of the young boys selling their bodies in Bangkok, Pattaya and Patong. it's offensive to alot of Thais. I'm not going to tangent off into the ethics of the business, rather my point is that's what alot of people think of. It colors their perceptions.

Now, if the subject was about same sex relationships between Thais, I doubt there would be as much concern. However, I have noticed a real negative position attached to the concept of homosexuals lately. Look, I'm not saying homos bad, and no one in his right mind should get offended by 2 guys in love, if it really is love and not the product of what we know passes for love in alot of places. I have a gut feeling this has a lot to do with the perception of deviant "western" activities and influences taking hold. I took a walk along the beach today, which was a 1st in ages. I was sort of surprised to see all sorts of aged ladies topless. It really was a disgusting sight. Now you say, what's the connection. Well, when Thais see the topless fat grannies, they get the perception that western women are debauched as well and you can get the same backlash.

I was out with my friends the other night. I am always amazed by how comfortable my friends are with being gay. All of their families know and it's no biggie. Would there families disown them, condemn them, go off on a just say No rampage? Nope. Now if I showed up at my friend's place, and we announced that i was his new farang lover, I thing his parents would kill me. It's as if I'd have been the one to contaminate their son.

There has been a fair increase of classy male couples into Patong lately. poster boys for good gay tourists if you will. Well behaved, no groping, no elderly pervs, even a couple old LTR gay couples, just really nice looking normal people. If there were more of those people around, I don't think, the perceptions would be so bad.

Are you sure?

Often you come across as having a clue, but in this case you seem to have lost all of your sense!

You talk about Patong and people apparently being of a type that meets your approval, get real! Patong is the Pattaya of the Andaman.

If your gay friends are in Patong ... well there are certainly some 'average gays' whatever that may be, there. But honestly it's just a tacky place and for the most part deserves the rep it has.

Being gay just doesn't have the negative stereotypes here in Thailand that it has in the West. There are however very many cultural issues with various sub-groups in Thailand and the family expectations. I am sure SOME Thai people think "gay=young boys selling their bodies" but I doubt as many people think that as you seem to assert. There are gay kids in schools all over the country. There are ladyboys all over the country. There are just far fewer prejudiced people here than you would believe.

[popshirt]

<snip>

Now if I showed up at my friend's place, and we announced that i was his new farang lover, I thing his parents would kill me. It's as if I'd have been the one to contaminate their son.

<snip>

Not my experience at all. There is a great difference in age between me and my Thai partner, and he is the Great Hope (only son) of his family who sacrificed everything to put him thru Chula. His father is in the military, mother a conservative up-country lady, and they were delighted when we became a couple.

As far as they are concerned, their son "married well" and there is no detectable homophobia at all.

[onni4me]

There has been a fair increase of classy male couples into Patong lately. poster boys for good gay tourists if you will. Well behaved, no groping, no elderly pervs, even a couple old LTR gay couples, just really nice looking normal people. If there were more of those people around, I don't think, the perceptions would be so bad.

Could someone interpret this?

classy male couples? = rich? well-dressed? fashionable?

poster boys? = role models for who? of what?

good gay tourists? = this one really makes me wonder, what would be a bad gay tourist?

well behaved? = how can you tell? or are you referring only to what can be observed in public?

no elderly pervs? = You can see it by face value? how about younger pervs? or is this age related?

really nice looking normal people? = you are normal!

I have chosen to be in Thailand just to avoid this kind of attitudes. Fortunately, no-one has put me on my place - yet! I think I will avoid Phuket and especially Patong...for a very long time.

[geriatrickid]

Boy, did I step on some toes. I don't see in my comments that I made any reference to age differences in couples, so if you are seeing that, then you got an issue; so go get a tissue. The subject of older/younger couples is not up for discussion. Drop it, please.

When I refer to classy gay couples, I meant the kind of people that businesses value as a visitor, spending money and exercising some basic manners and courtesy. If the image of certain groups was more positive, you can bet there wouldn't be bad press. The issue is still one of perceptions and if anything the reactions here illustrate my point.

I will interpret for you Omni

classy male couples? = rich? well-dressed? fashionable? happy, well behaved folks

poster boys? = role models for who? of what? For good visitors.

good gay tourists? = this one really makes me wonder, what would be a bad gay tourist? The guy that shows up and tries to haggle for a bar boy by offering 350baht. I was in a bar when some low end fellow came in and decided that due to the slow tourist season, he would do that. That's tacky, ok. A good gay visitor is my friend's b/f who takes my friend out for a romantic day of hiking and then comes home to make dinner. Ok, so I'm drippy and you might think this is not relevant, but it is.

well behaved? = how can you tell? or are you referring only to what can be observed in public? I had to attend to a man that had his face smashed in by a farang when the guy declined sex. Sure it happens everywhere, but for some reason, there are people that come that think that they can do whatever they want here. And yea, I have seen enough idiotic behaviour in public to see what qualifies as bad vs.well behaved. 2 nights ago in Paradise, I'm sitting there and this farang kid, probably 24-26 comes stumbling down, knocking over tables, smacking into customers and workers alike. That's bad behaviour. This isn't gay exclusive. My point is that it fuels the negative perceptions.

no elderly pervs? = You can see it by face value? how about younger pervs? or is this age related? I think this is self evident and these people are no big secret. No point in discussing further.

really nice looking normal people? = you are normal! Normal is meant in the strictest sense. It is not age, or gender specific, but is the state that represents stability. I am notorious for still dressing the same way as when I was a cobain clone, drives my friends batty, but at least my clothes are clean and I don't reek. Call me bigoted, but if I want to look at creepy men who's bellies protrude from stained singlets, or women that can't keep their floppy boobs covered in crap cheap tats in their bras, I'll hang around on Bangla rd.

Ok, so JD thinks Patong is the southern version of Pattaya. That's so wrong, so we'll just disagree.

Read more on some of the thai positions about homosexual acceptance, and more often than not it is "blamed" upon corrupting western influences. Hence, my emphasis on the issue of perceptions.

[jdinasia]

So wrong?

I lived in Phuket for a year. My gay friends from BKK etc don't stay in Patong when they go to Phuket, why? 'too much like pattaya'

and you still have no clue about being gay in Thailand, since obviously it exists all over and always has here. Far beyond the reaches of standard 'corrupting western influences'

and your bringing up 'elderly pervs' and then running away from the comment is disingenuous ....

You are just digging yourself in deeper.

[twschw]

Could please cite some sources so we could "read more" about what we see and feel everyday?

[Jingthing]

geriatric/kid:

You know what you remind me of? The "mainstream" A gays in the US who are always railing against the drag queens who show up at gay pride parades. They ruin their straight acting "normal" image. They imagine if these "freaks" didn't flaunt it that full acceptance and equal civil rights would be a snapped finger away. They are wrong. And you are also wrong. Read the letter from the bigot to the Bangkok Post. Do you think that kind cares one wit about the issues you brought up? We are ALL pervs to him. And I would have to agree Patong and Pattaya, same same, but the former is pricier, snootier, has more katoey moto thieves, and a MUCH better beach.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[geriatrickid]

So wrong?

I lived in Phuket for a year. My gay friends from BKK etc don't stay in Patong when they go to Phuket, why? 'too much like pattaya'

and you still have no clue about being gay in Thailand, since obviously it exists all over and always has here. Far beyond the reaches of standard 'corrupting western influences'

and your bringing up 'elderly pervs' and then running away from the comment is disingenuous ....

You are just digging yourself in deeper.

Your views and you are welcome to them. A discussion of who has a better understanding of gays in Thailand between us is the equivalent of my weenie is bigger than yours. You win. you have a bigger one. Ok.

Not running away from the perv issue, just trying to avoid a senseless argument, where there will be hurt feelings etc. I say one thing, some will say another. Rather than argue, you win again, ok. Me bad. I clarified my comment and it serves no purpose to argue it further.

The views of the bangkok people are typical of their views on everything. Bangkok is their center of the universe and everywhere else is crap. Because we go to patong means nothing. A couple of my friends are from Chiang Rai & Chiang mai and come down for holiday. The others work Karon, kamala & rawai. patong is the easiest place to hang. that's all. With the exception of 2 of them the rest detest farangs. That too probably comes as a surprise to you, however, if you are an expert on Thais then you know there is a growing dislike of farangs that will get worse as the economy tanks. I know enough to understand that I will always be an outsider and can never ever be part of the mainstream fabric.

Disagree with me all you want, but when social issues arise, the negative aspects are almost always ascribed to outside influences. It happens with crime (blame it on the Burmese) it happens with the economy (blame it on Wall Street), it happens with food quality (blame it on Chinese merchants) etc. So when thai eggheads get together to discuss social issues, the openness to an outside cause, is to be expected. If you understand Thai social policy then you should understand that. as par for the course, anything that is different and perceived as "non-Thai" will be singled out for closer examination.

[jdinasia]

Oh, you are not farang?

[onni4me]

With the exception of 2 of them the rest detest farangs. That too probably comes as a surprise to you, however, if you are an expert on Thais then you know there is a growing dislike of farangs that will get worse as the economy tanks. I know enough to understand that I will always be an outsider and can never ever be part of the mainstream fabric.

Actually, I wanted to point out that you spat out a lot that could be interpreted not in so nice way. After explaining your view I got it.

But then again...like you write above...2 of them like you and other detest? U no farang?

I am sort of bored about this eternal point made that we as foreigners - and maybe as gays - can never ever never understand Thais. I don't agree on that. There either is acceptance on both sides or there isn't. Simple as that.

As someone pointed out, your view is rather defined and as such I believe it to be too sophisticated for looking 'us' foreigners here. When looking from outside we see just a glimpse of someone. I agree that if behavior is vulgar or straight forward aggressive and abusive, it can be condemned, but seeing all sorts of degrees of separation without knowing better is putting yourself up and others down. I also believe that to some like Chad in the original Postbag opinion needs more than seeing nicely behaving non-pervs to be convinced. Sorry.

Edited November 4, 2008 by onni4me

[geriatrickid]

Actually, I wanted to point out that you spat out a lot that could be interpreted not in so nice way. After explaining your view I got it. Thanks. And yes I see your point. By now some have realized that my writing reflects my job where I am communicating with folks that think the same as me. (Scary thought there are more of me out there.) This leads to poor explanations. I probably drive some of you guys mad . If its any consolation, my friend threw his shoe at me at jungceylon the other day because of my big mouth.

But then again...like you write above...2 of them like you and other detest? U no farang?

I am sort of bored about this eternal point made that we as foreigners - and maybe as gays - can never ever never understand Thais. I don't agree on that. There either is acceptance on both sides or there isn't. Simple as that.

Good observation.At least we agree on something. And don't think for a moment that I don't see the different way I am treated sometimes by the 2 guys that have told me to my face after a few whiskeys how they dislike farangs. I'm cool with it and stay out of their space. They make an exception for me only because we need each other. The day I serve no purpose we'll go our separate ways.

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

[Jingthing]

With the exception of 2 of them the rest detest farangs. That too probably comes as a surprise to you, however, if you are an expert on Thais then you know there is a growing dislike of farangs that will get worse as the economy tanks. I know enough to understand that I will always be an outsider and can never ever be part of the mainstream fabric.

Ummm. So what? Is there something I am missing here? Thailand is a very xenophobic society. Of course outsiders are going to be blamed, and blamed more in hard times. But do you think if we all act like model homosexuals according to some kind of Western standard of whatever the heil that is and suitable for your Aunt Mathilda's tea parties, that still wouldn't happen? I am slow. Humor me. (If not, where can I purchase the good homosexual in Thailand rule book?)

Another point is that yes of course decades ago when white people were rare and exotic here, of course we were special. Now we are thick as flies in some cities. Not loved and admired so much anymore? No surprise.

I just don't understand living your life to seek the approval of some abstract mass of people, in this case Thai people, or perhaps judgmental Westerners in Thailand. Life is short, if we don't hurt people and stay within the laws of the land, as long as we aren't deported or rounded up and shot, why not behave as you feel like behaving?

Edited November 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[elkangorito]

To me, being in the "Land Of Appearances" is not much different to being anywhere else in the world.

If one foolishly wishes to behave in such a way that totally conforms to the wishes of others, one wishes to be controlled by others. One is therefore a slave unto others.

There is no doubt that homophobia exists in Thailand. There is also no doubt that gay people are not strangers to this situation. Knowing this, would it be wise to deny any gay individual the freedom for which gay people have doggedly fought for a long time, just to satisfy "appearance" in Thailand? I think not.

Also, you can spend all of your life satisfying "appearance" (aka "living in the closet") only to have it thrown back in your face when somebody finds out you are gay. In a nutshell, why bother covering your sexuality & spending all of your time "conforming" when, at the end of the day, they find out that you are gay & hate you anyway?

The saving grace is this...no matter who you are, what you look like, what you dress like, how poor you are, how dirty you are or how different you are, most humans respond to respect. If you can't respect yourself enough to honestly be who you are, there is not much of a chance you will get any sort of respect from others.

Gay people have fought long & hard for a small gain of "respect". This went against the grain of many. For years, gay people have "covered up" only to lose respect in the long run.

If there is one thing that gay people can teach Thailand, it is that respect based upon appearances means nothing & true respect means everything.