Incompetence And Indecision Through Fear….

[richard_smith237]

Incompetence and Indecision through fear….

I’ve had my fill recently of what I term ‘Incompetence and Indecision through fear of making a mistake’… Whereby someone in a decision making process decides ‘No’ / ‘Cannot’ because for them any negative implications of making the wrong decision are reduced by either doing nothing, being unhelpful, passing you along or rejecting something….

I’ve written my letter of complaint and expect nothing to change… this is just a vent which I don’t often do on TV.

I couldn’t withdraw a large sum of money from one SCB branch today (with my bank book and passport), I had no problems and an alternative branch but I was inconvenienced by having to travel to a different branch and get wet in the process in terrible weather.

It was clear that the branch manager at the first branch ‘froze between the headlights’ and the safest decision for him was to say no…

I know its being safe, but how safe can the more meak personalities of commerce and business become before such an inconveniences is created its just easier to use the alternatives ?

Rant over.. apologies for boring you….

Any More similar stories of Incompetence and Indecision through fear….??

[Scott]

I had the same thing happen. I bought a new vehicle and wanted to pay for it with a cashier's check. I went to a branch (my branch is all hel_l far away--the account was opened long ago when I lived in that area). They could/would only give me a check for 1/2 the am't. So, I ended up paying for 1/2 with a check and 1/2 with cash. I sure didn't like driving around with over 300,000 baht in cash.

I always remember that when something happens to someone who gets robbed of a large amount of money and people start attacking because they want to know why the <deleted> was someone carrying that kind of cash!

Seems banks are by nature cautious--except in the US when giving out a mortgage!

[yabaaaa]

Cautious o stupid? I walked into SCB bank with 1 million baht asked to open an account, cannot they said, walked down the road into kasikorn and opened it, now when i walk past scb I always see the man I know a s the "stupid manager", he's probably looking back at me thinking the same.

[JetsetBkk]

....Rant over.. apologies for boring you….

Any More similar stories of Incompetence and Indecision through fear….??

No need to apologise, but you gotta tell us how much!

(Maybe you "bust the bank" )

[Lucifer]

Cautious o stupid? I walked into SCB bank with 1 million baht asked to open an account, cannot they said, walked down the road into kasikorn and opened it, now when i walk past scb I always see the man I know a s the "stupid manager", he's probably looking back at me thinking the same.

You should go back into the SCB bank with your Kasiorn account statement and show it to the manager. Ask him to look at it...and well.....just look at it.

[elkangorito]

Here's something from Bangkok Post "Postbag", 2005 (I kept the newspaper clipping). It descibes the reverse to the OP's situation but nonetheless the same principle applies.

Afraid of losing face.

I have been working part-time at a coffee shop for almost two years and have gained loads of valuable experience from the job. At least, my English has improved a lot, as most of the customers here are foreigners. But there have been some Thais, whom I found weird. They are too afraid to lose face in front of Thai staff when they place an order. Whether or not they know how to order, they never take a look at the picture menu I offer them. As a result, most of the time, they get the wrong drink, a drink that they unintentionally ordered. I think this behaviour is nonsense. I see no need to be ashamed of asking about what one doesn't know, as we aren't supposed to know everything in the world. And asking doesn't mean the same as stupidity.

Perhaps it serves those people right that they don't get what they want, in return for being over-afraid to lose face in a wrong situation.

Tharinee.

Chaing Mai.

I wonder if her "Thainess" has been revoked?

[GuestHouse]

Don't go thinking its only the Thais who are like this.

One of the frustrations of working with expats in Thailand is the number of guys who expend almost all of their energy trying not to express an opinion, make a decision or say/do anything that puts them at risk of being spotted with their head above the parapet.

[richard_smith237]

I quite agree, this is not specific to Thailand and I’m happy that no one has jumped on the ‘if you don’t like it get out’ bandwagon…

I experience this sort of behavioral attitude at work (global) however as its work there is a greater opportunity for recourse or correction.

With this situation I was quite helpless, which is why I felt a greater source of annoyance and frustration. I had to swallow my frustration, point out that I was disappointed, say thank you, leave, head off to the next branch and get what I wanted done.

It was 900,000 B

[farmerjo]

For me its not the incompetence or indecision of workers in general.

But in the way business organisation charts are structured in thailand.

Lower level employees are instructed not to make decisions,but usually ranking positions will report to higher ranking positions and so on until you find more ranking positions than blue collar workers.In the end a decision will be made by the highest person of order which normally leads to costly productivity losses and a chain of command thats ineffective.

But thais love there rank you just have to look at some bus conductors,they have more wings and stripes on there shoulders than some army generals.

[yabaaaa]

Cautious o stupid? I walked into SCB bank with 1 million baht asked to open an account, cannot they said, walked down the road into kasikorn and opened it, now when i walk past scb I always see the man I know a s the "stupid manager", he's probably looking back at me thinking the same.

You should go back into the SCB bank with your Kasiorn account statement and show it to the manager. Ask him to look at it...and well.....just look at it.

Ive learnt not to bother it make s no difference to them and they give it little or zero thought, wife on the other hand was eager to go and show them/tell them.

[12DrinkMore]

Cautious o stupid? I walked into SCB bank with 1 million baht asked to open an account, cannot they said, walked down the road into kasikorn and opened it, now when i walk past scb I always see the man I know a s the "stupid manager", he's probably looking back at me thinking the same.

I wonder what would happen in the UK if you strolled in with 20,000 Quid and asked to open an account? Probably take a week of paperwork to prove where the money had come from etc.

And if you relate this to salary levels by taking 100,000 Baht as an average Thai wage, then you walked in with the equivalent of 10 years' wages, ie in UK terms about 250,000 Quid. Now THAT would raise a few eyebrows....

[yabaaaa]

Cautious o stupid? I walked into SCB bank with 1 million baht asked to open an account, cannot they said, walked down the road into kasikorn and opened it, now when i walk past scb I always see the man I know a s the "stupid manager", he's probably looking back at me thinking the same.

I wonder what would happen in the UK if you strolled in with 20,000 Quid and asked to open an account? Probably take a week of paperwork to prove where the money had come from etc.

And if you relate this to salary levels by taking 100,000 Baht as an average Thai wage, then you walked in with the equivalent of 10 years' wages, ie in UK terms about 250,000 Quid. Now THAT would raise a few eyebrows....

"Farang without work permit cannot open a bank account in Thailand" words (incorrect) of the manager, does that help the scenario ?

The farce is they dont know their own rules (call centre says you can open an account) in fact the correct rules are after a long debate with my wife, each manager at each individual branch can make any rule he likes for his branch.

[12DrinkMore]

"Farang without work permit cannot open a bank account in Thailand" words (incorrect) of the manager, does that help the scenario ?

The farce is they dont know their own rules (call centre says you can open an account) in fact the correct rules are after a long debate with my wife, each manager at each individual branch can make any rule he likes for his branch.

The fairly consistent requirement is either you have

1. A work permit or

2. A non-imm yearly visa

before banks will open an account.

[pete_r]

There is a practice at shops and restaurants to make the employees pay from their own pocket if there is a mistake at the till. If the same system applies to bank employees, they would have a good reason to be afraid handling big transactions.

[Raesum]

"Farang without work permit cannot open a bank account in Thailand" words (incorrect) of the manager, does that help the scenario ?

The farce is they dont know their own rules (call centre says you can open an account) in fact the correct rules are after a long debate with my wife, each manager at each individual branch can make any rule he likes for his branch.

The fairly consistent requirement is either you have

1. A work permit or

2. A non-imm yearly visa

before banks will open an account.

I don't have a work permit and the bank certainly didn't check what sort of visa I had. Opened an account a couple of days after I arrived. Although wouldn't be surprised if its different rules for different branches.I worked in a bank for too many years o/s and we always had to explain everything to the customers ie fees and charges etc.Over here the answer's a bit of a shrug and an inadequate bit of a pamphlet.You find out as you go along

[samuibeachcomber]

there does n't seem to be any rule of thumb when it comes to banks.I remember arriving here a few years ago on a 30day visa i got at bangkok airport,went to a bank and opened a savings a/c with 1500baht.

[12DrinkMore]

there does n't seem to be any rule of thumb when it comes to banks.I remember arriving here a few years ago on a 30day visa i got at bangkok airport,went to a bank and opened a savings a/c with 1500baht.

Well that helps, thanks. I also opened an account with the Nana BKKBank using a hotel room in the Nana Hotel as an address some years ago, initial deposit was 500 Baht.

We are now talking about today. The requirements have changed.

[JetsetBkk]

The fairly consistent requirement is either you have

1. A work permit or

2. A non-imm yearly visa

before banks will open an account.

When I opened my first account I was here as a tourist with a 30 day stamp. Two years later when I was living here and got online banking set up, I noticed they still had my old hotel and room number as my address.

But I think it's got a bit harder nowadays to open an account at some banks.

[myauq]

I've had my fill recently of what I term 'Incompetence and Indecision through fear of making a mistake'… Whereby someone in a decision making process decides 'No' / 'Cannot' because for them any negative implications of making the wrong decision are reduced by either doing nothing, being unhelpful, passing you along or rejecting something….

i too find this as frustrating as hel_l, and i can understand your reaction and need to vent. for me, the most annoying thing about these encounters is that many such 'educated' thais seem to have no idea about cultural differences, and motivations for farang behaviour in the first place. the face issue is very strong amonst thais, which is understandable because it's their culture, but for the life of me i can't understand why they can't imagine we are expected to automatically understand, and accept this behaviour.

what i'm getting at is that is this: even in the cosmopolitan smoke of bangkok, in hotels, banks, business in general, staff are rarely trained in the ways of the farang. their culture just doesn't give them a helping hand, and a questioning mind. with better cultural understanding, they would at least be able to understand what we're on about half the time.

[jts-khorat]

I had the same thing happen. I bought a new vehicle and wanted to pay for it with a cashier's check. I went to a branch (my branch is all hel_l far away--the account was opened long ago when I lived in that area). They could/would only give me a check for 1/2 the am't. So, I ended up paying for 1/2 with a check and 1/2 with cash. I sure didn't like driving around with over 300,000 baht in cash.

I always remember that when something happens to someone who gets robbed of a large amount of money and people start attacking because they want to know why the <deleted> was someone carrying that kind of cash!

Seems banks are by nature cautious--except in the US when giving out a mortgage!

Maybe the real reason was, that the branch did not have the amount needed available in cash; face would have been lost telling you this, so they made up some excuse.

It was no problem the other day for a friend of mine walking into the Phuket Central branch of Siam Commercial Bank, take out THb 900,000 in cash. It took only seconds, nothing was asked of reasons.

I would assume if the money is available and the bank does not expect other (regular) customers to also need large sums of cash that day that you will get it handed without complications.