Dutch Suspect In Natalee Holloway Case Reported To Be In Bangkok

[Scott]

Why would he need false ID papers--I don't see where he has done anything wrong yet, legally?

[tartempion]

I am afraid this thread shows us again how gullible many people really are, believing anything thrown at them, worse than small children

[dingdongrb]

Declaring him PNG & deporting him would suit me.

Locking him up in a Thai prison would suit me.

OK, locking you up in a Thai prison would suit me very much, thank you.

Why?

Because I would like that.

Stupid?

Yes, as stupid as your remark.

As you can read, this man was suspected of a killing, and set free because there was no proof at all that he was indeed guilty of killing the girl.

He is NOT convicted of any crime, why lock him up in a Thai prison?

Just because Peter de Vries THINKS he did kill the girl?

Just because public opinion in the US is enough to condemn someone?

Just because this guy flees to Thailand because wants to escape that stupid <deleted> de Vries?

He is in Thailand, which only shows the Dutch authorities had no grounds to withdraw his passport.

Why in Thailand?

Why not?

Like all his remarks, statements and fantasies, Joran only shows he is a compulsive liar.

Stupid?

Oh yes, very much.

But guilty without judging?

NO!

Is he an example of the kind of tourists I am happy with?

No!

But, his father is a judge, quite rich, probably rather influential.

You see?

My reply (simple): OJ Simpson

[Westerner]

Declaring him PNG & deporting him would suit me.

Locking him up in a Thai prison would suit me.

OK, locking you up in a Thai prison would suit me very much, thank you.

Why?

Because I would like that.

Stupid?

Yes, as stupid as your remark.

As you can read, this man was suspected of a killing, and set free because there was no proof at all that he was indeed guilty of killing the girl.

He is NOT convicted of any crime, why lock him up in a Thai prison?

Just because Peter de Vries THINKS he did kill the girl?

Just because public opinion in the US is enough to condemn someone?

Just because this guy flees to Thailand because wants to escape that stupid <deleted> de Vries?

He is in Thailand, which only shows the Dutch authorities had no grounds to withdraw his passport.

Why in Thailand?

Why not?

Like all his remarks, statements and fantasies, Joran only shows he is a compulsive liar.

Stupid?

Oh yes, very much.

But guilty without judging?

NO!

Is he an example of the kind of tourists I am happy with?

No!

But, his father is a judge, quite rich, probably rather influential.

You see?

This guy is sociopathic. He showed absolutely no emotion or empathy when being interviewed over the Natalee Holloway case. If he were to traffic Thai girls to Holland, he would not give a shit what happened to them. That's his personality.

Yes, I would like to see him locked up in a Thai jail!!

[Scott]

Well of course he's sociopathic--that however isn't a crime! As far as having no emotion for his alledged victims of trafficking--I haven't read about any traffickers who showed much empathy for them.

[sniffdog]

Latest update: Missing since Friday night. Has been spotted on the way to Koh Samui .... Even his lawyer cannot contact him.

[animatic]

Amazing , even more considering that this criminal is only 21 years old !

Its a person who doesn't care about anyone or anything but himself

sociopathic, i'd bet

Good bet. Age has little to do with amorality and sociopathia.

The guy likely has no compunctions about his actions,

other than not getting caught and punished.

[LaoPo]

Holland's largest newspaper reports that Joran has not returned to his house in Bangkok after visiting a party, last Friday evening.

Peter R. de Vries reports that Thai staff from the Dutch Embassy is translating the script from the program which was shown last night on Dutch television.

The latter because Thai Justice asked for the script and a copy of the program, according to De Vries.

A Dutch witness said he spotted and recognized Joran on a plane to Koh Samui.

Dutch police and justice have questioned the new witness/ex-girlfriend of Joran in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in 2005. This happened on four occassions whilst the last time she was questioned lasted 5 hours, according to De Vries.

However, Joran did not confess or tell his girlfriend that he would have killed Natalee. Even with this statement Joran could only -eventually- prosecuted for the disposal of a body. The maximum penalty is one year for such a crime.

He cannot even be arrested again (was already 2 times) for the crime he may have committed.

He is now more in danger for the eventual actions by the Thai police and justice because sending pictures from Thai girls and the preparation actions for the eventual ''delivery'' of Thai girls to Holland is most likely a case to be prosecuted.

An arrest in Thailand would result in a long custody. Not seldom custodies last long, up to 1 1/2 year before a case ends up in a trial.

All, -free translated- according to the newspaper, De Telegraaf.

LaoPo

Edit:

In another news report it is mentioned that staff from the Thai Embassy in The Netherlands watched the program (and is possibly translating the script). Confused about the reality here.

Edited November 10, 2008 by LaoPo

[Master Chief]

Manhunt is not an easy task to handle on a forum like TV, this guys has been trough the legal system and has avoided to get prosecuted.

As always posts are written and ideas are given, but in the end he is still out there, right or wrong he is out.

So in the eyes of the law he is not guilty, as he has not been sentenced to extend of the law.

We should just sit back let the game have its turn and watch the outcome.

MC

[animatic]

Manhunt is not an easy task to handle on a forum like TV, this guys has been trough the legal system and has avoided to get prosecuted.

As always posts are written and ideas are given, but in the end he is still out there, right or wrong he is out.

So in the eyes of the law he is not guilty, as he has not been sentenced to extend of the law.

We should just sit back let the game have its turn and watch the outcome.

MC

Helping dispose of the body isn't murder, BUT it IS dispicable conduct, and a crime.

He may have dodged the bullit in Aruba, but that's legal justice not actual justice.

We don't have to like him, or make his life easier.

If I saw the turd somewhere here I'd post him up.

Maybe he will wash out to sea on the monsoon he flew into on Samui.

[LaoPo]

Thailand wants Van der Sloot transcript

Monday 10 November 2008

The Thai authorities have asked for a copy of last night’s tv programme in which Joran van der Sloot, the chief suspect in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, said he could get Thai girls for the Dutch sex industry, the Telegraaf reports.

A spokesman for tv crime reporter Peter R de Vries, who made the two-hour show using hidden cameras, told the paper that the transcript was now being translated for Thai embassy staff.

Meanwhile, the paper says Van der Sloot left Thailand on Friday, before the broadcast.

His lawyer Bert de Rooij, has been unable to speak to him, the paper says. ‘I am hoping to get in touch with him soon,’ the Telegraaf quoted De Rooij as saying.

De Vries won an Emmy for an earlier undercover programme in which Van der Sloot said a friend had dumped Holloway’s body at sea. The 18-year-old, who was on a school trip to the Caribbean island of Aruba, has been missing since 2005.

Four psychologists interviewed by De Vries in last night’s programme said that, in their opinion, Van der Sloot was telling the truth when he was secretly recorded talking about Holloway.

Body language

‘A crucial moment was his body language when he spoke about how Natalee began to shake,’ said professor of legal psychology Harald Merkelbach. ‘You don’t do act like that if you are making something up.’

In Sunday night’s show, De Vries showed Van der Sloot in Bangkok telling a reporter from the show and another man, both posing as Dutch sex industry entrepreneurs, that he could get Thai girls to work for them in the Netherlands on false documents.

When confronted with these claims on the phone by De Vries at the end of the show, Van der Sloot, dismissed them saying: ‘I have done nothing. You initiated everything.’

-DutchNews

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

"Holloway suspect involved in Thai sex trade"

RNW News-10-11-2008

Joran van der Sloot, the main suspect in the disappearance case of US teenager Natalee Holloway, has been filmed in Bangkok where he was allegedly recruiting Thai girls to work in the sex industry in Europe.

In images secretly shot by crime reporter Peter R. de Vries, Mr Van der Sloot is shown accepting a one thousand euros advance payment for his services. Independent lawyer J.P. Plasman says that by receiving the money Mr Van der Sloot has committed a punishable offence.

Judicial authorities in Thailand have requested copies of the images broadcast on Sunday by Dutch commercial tv channel SBS6.

Not convicted

Natalee Holloway disappeared in May 2005 while on holiday on the Netherlands Antilles island of Aruba, after spending a drunken night on the beach with Dutchman Van der Sloot. Her body was never found.

On earlier hidden camera footage, also produced by Peter R. de Vries, Mr Van der Sloot admitted that he knew how Ms Holloway disappeared. But lacking conclusive evidence, judges concluded it was impossible to declare Mr Van der Sloot guilty.

New witness

Mr De Vries has produced a new witness in the Holloway case. Press reports say that Mr Van der Sloot told a girlfriend, identified only as Celes, "Who knows, you may now be on the beach with someone who is able to get rid of a corpse."

According to judicial psychologist Harald Merkelbach, who watched both the earlier and the recent footage, Joran van der Sloot believes he is invulnerable. "He sees people as objects." The psychologist calls Mr Van der Sloot "a young man with many defects".

Gone underground

Following the latest disclosures about his behaviour, Mr Van der Sloot, using the alias of "Murphy Jenkins", is reported to have fled to avoid arrest by the Thai authorities. He has not been seen since leaving a party in Bangkok on Friday evening. A Dutch eyewitness claims he has seen Mr Van der Sloot on an internal flight to the island of Koh Samui.

Unrevealed timelines

Antillean film maker Renée Gielen has produced a tv documentary about the Natalee Holloway case. She says that unlike Peter R. de Vries she does not want to tackle Joran van der Sloot. "I'd rather focus on aspects that others have ignored."

Speaking in Oranjestad, Curaçao, Ms Gielen accuses the Dutch press of blindly following the lead of US journalists after Ms Holloway's disappearance. "Nobody really investigated the Holloway family. Nobody published anything about a special medical flight from the US to Aruba, immediately after Natalee went missing. Neither the plane crew, nor local authorities were informed about the flight, which probably carried Ms Holloway's mother Beth."

The documentary, entitled The Unrevealed Timelines, will be shown on tv channels on the Netherlands Antilles and will be released on DVD.

-RNW news

LaoPo

[Mario2008]

I think he should be locked up because of involment in human trafficking. That would be the charged in Thailand.

Dutch newspapers report that the Thai embassy in the Netherlands have requested the material from the broadcast and are translating it into Thai. Hope they hurry up and see grounds to arrest him. He already fled his house in Bangkok.

[LaoPo]

For the time being, the prosecution department of the Ministry of Justice in The Netherlands does not see any reasons to prosecute Joran van der Sloot after watching the program material about the undercover operation in Bangkok.

Joran did not commit any crimes according to Dutch laws, the Ministry said.

It remains to be seen if Thai police/prosecution will have enough material/evidence to prosecute Joran van der Sloot

A website in Holland called "Grenswetenschap.nl" or Borderscience/knowledge questions the undercover actions in Bangkok by crimereporter De Vries.

They publish that the pokerfriend of Joran, a young man from Holland called Arjan Wezel, heard about attractive girl stories by Joran (not about trafficking) via chatting and decided to contact crimereporter Peter R. de Vries.

Until that time Joran was not involved in any way with women/girl trafficking whatsoever.

De Vries set up a trap for Joran by suggesting to ask if Joran could arrange girls to be send to Holland.

Joran took the bite...and the rest of the story is known.

The suggestions for girl deliveries by De Vries are questionable according to "Grenswetenschap"/Borderscience since the idea for girl trafficking did not come from Joran van der Sloot himself.

LaoPo

[geriatrickid]

The kid is obviously unpalatable. However, a lengthy, professional investigation that spared no expense could not come up with anything. His father had no pull in Aruba. If you know the Dutch mentality; prosecutors and police are not easily intimidated by a lawyer sent to an armpit region to undergo training as a small court judge, so give the conspiracy theory about the father a rest.

I have a hunch, this fellow is so marginalized by Dutch society, that he did what most people shaped by such circumstances do: They turn to crime to support themselves. I doubt it was true human trafficing, more like scammery, which would seem to be more in line with his psychological makeup. i think he's on a slippery slope now and it is only a matter of time before he falls more into the criminal mindset and does something very stupid, for which he will get caught and nailed. He needs to grow up and learn responsible behaviour before he's past the point of no return.

[animatic]

The kid is obviously unpalatable. However, a lengthy, professional investigation that spared no expense could not come up with anything. His father had no pull in Aruba. If you know the Dutch mentality; prosecutors and police are not easily intimidated by a lawyer sent to an armpit region to undergo training as a small court judge, so give the conspiracy theory about the father a rest.

I have a hunch, this fellow is so marginalized by Dutch society, that he did what most people shaped by such circumstances do: They turn to crime to support themselves. I doubt it was true human trafficing, more like scammery, which would seem to be more in line with his psychological makeup. i think he's on a slippery slope now and it is only a matter of time before he falls more into the criminal mindset and does something very stupid, for which he will get caught and nailed. He needs to grow up and learn responsible behaviour before he's past the point of no return.

While I agree with much of what you say, the last line, nope.

Dumping the body of some poor girl out at sea IS past the point of no return.

No closure for friends and family. They only get a lifetime of imagining her end.

Even if he imagined he is helping a friend or cleaning up his own mess,

it is still totally thoughtless of her and anyone who loves her.

The slippery slope is tilting more and more,

and well greased with his own malevolence.

[TheJoker]

Is he still in his house in the northern area?

[animatic]

The last report said he was flying to Samui.

But he could easily hop a taxi directly to the ferry and off to Surathani airport

or a VIP refridgerator bus and back up north discretely.

Plenty of Dutch here to recognize him.

But no reports so far.

[Jimjim]

It never ceases to amaze me how so many bad apples end up here in Thailand. The immgration officials might want to start googling names so they know who they are letting in the country.

Was he ever convicted of any crime? Not much they could justifiably do. Accused does not make one guilty.

[BigSnake]

WOW!! All kind of SCUM BAGS visit the Land of Smiles(LOS) OH, well so be it> Do hope the POWERS THAT BE KEEP a very very close WATCH on this DUDE. Nuff said.

Edited November 11, 2008 by BigSnake

[Jimjim]

Is there any place to watch those Peter R De Vries programs in their entirety online?

[TheJoker]

Yes on Youtube / Google Video. I've watched it and they meet up for a so called "deal" in The Landmark hotel in Sukhumvit area.

[LaoPo]

Today's newspaper De Telegraaf in The Netherlands, free translation:

Justice in Thailand is investigating if they can arrest Joran van der Sloot based on the undercover operation. The Thai Embassy informed so.

According to a spokes lady of the Embassy, prosecutors are investigating the images in the television program but also looking for possible witnesses.

Criminal lawyers in The Netherlands are debating amongst each other whether the images in the program are enough to start a criminal court case. Some say yes, others say no.

The program by Peter R. de Vries was watched by 3,5 million viewers (that's half of the 7 million viewers, earlier this year, about Natalee Holloway's disappearance program by De Vries which was the largest -ever- watched program in The Netherlands -on a population of some 16.3 million; LP).

The Thai Embassy mentioned that The Thai criminal laws are very different than the Dutch laws. In Thailand a faster prosecution is possible.

According to Joran's lawyer it seems his client has vanished from the face of the earth and he can't reach him. Joran left a message on his voicemal but without a telephone number "I can't do much"

He is not in his villa in BKK anymore; he was spotted on a plane to Samui*.

So far the free translation.

* In my opinion, flying to Samui would not be very clever; it remains to be seen if the report by a Dutch traveler that he spotted Joran was true or not. WHO sent that message....and to whom ?, LP

OR, as mentioned by Animatic: "But he could easily hop a taxi directly to the ferry and off to Surathani airport or a VIP refridgerator bus and back up north discretely" to which I would like to add: .....or a taxi to the Malaysian border.

But he could have sent that message (Samui) himself and left the opposite way; Cambodia.....to the Philippines..who knows ? Earlier he was spotted in Bhutan.

LaoPo

[urnotary]

It never ceases to amaze me how so many bad apples end up here in Thailand. The immgration officials might want to start googling names so they know who they are letting in the country.

That, Scott, is not such a bad idea...... & taken a few steps further could at least put flags up on possible ID's of people that should probably not be welcomed into the country

however...

Mistaken identity (just check out how many John Williams are in any phone book) could be a problem.

I agree, too many names not enough intelligence to manage this type of checking. In America an old grandma was arrested, jailed because she had the same name as a young woman wanted in regards to terrist activities. Wrong state, wrong age, wrong color, wrong middle name!!!! Do you really want any government to have that kind of power.

[astute]

I watched the program on the website of SBS6 (the TV channel airing De Vries his program) and I am just curious to which Italian restaurant they went.

I know one very good one, on a side street of one of the soi's (I think 7 or 9 or so, I walk there blindly) and it would be shame if it is true that the owner of that place is involved with Joran.

Probably just a lie from Joran anyways.

Also I think the villa is not Joran's but just a place were he crashes, maybe Luke pays the rent there, or the third person on the business card.

Still, some stuff got lost in translation there, and De Vries reflected Thailand and the sex industry with that in The Netherlands so that Dutch viewers are extra shocked.

Joran is full of bullshit and I think he is an overzealous student trying to get a con-job. De Vries probably knows this, he also knows he can't get him on the murder or involvement with the murder of Holloway and thus tries to get him convicted using Joran his own con-job as a human traficker.

Just my 2¢

(http://www.sbs6.nl/web/show/id=266821/langid=43)

Edited November 11, 2008 by astute

[LaoPo]

Joran is full of bullshit and I think he is an overzealous student trying to get a con-job. De Vries probably knows this, he also knows he can't get him on the murder or involvement with the murder of Holloway and thus tries to get him convicted using Joran his own con-job as a human traficker.

I think you are making a mistake here.

There is no evidence that Natalee Holloway was murdered and investigators do not think also she was murdered.

What really happened that night is still a mystery.

That Joran was involved in her disappearance is quite clear since he mentioned so himself that he was involved and got rid of her body, with help or not.

But, that is not enough to declare him a murderer or being involved in the murder of Natalee.

That doesn't make him less disgusting of course.

LaoPo

[TheJoker]

I think Joran telled the truth in the car interview in The Netherlands. Whe he said he was waiting at the shore and his friend dumped the body. So it's actually not Joran himself who did it. Nobody knows anything about his friends.

Let's wait for more news on this guy.. ( Deze meneer )

[ronz28]

Nancy Grace CNN has been showing the evidence tonight. You can see excerpts at:

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/holloway...cid=VIDLRVNWS01

[himalayan]

Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but here's an interesting link related to this case:

/judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm

I personally think she was not murdered (since SOME forensic evidence should have turned up by now) but instead was "selected" by scout Joran for the price she would fetch, drugged, and then quickly shipped off the island in a speedboat to a waiting white slavery broker.

From what I've read, this apparently is not the first time this is known to have occurred on the island.

The murder story is a cover.

[Carib]

Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but here's an interesting link related to this case:

/judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm

I personally think she was not murdered (since SOME forensic evidence should have turned up by now) but instead was "selected" by scout Joran for the price she would fetch, drugged, and then quickly shipped off the island in a speedboat to a waiting white slavery broker.

From what I've read, this apparently is not the first time this is known to have occurred on the island.

The murder story is a cover.

The link you provided is made by someone who like you " has heard" ...

Just circumstantial rubbish, presented like ` facts`. There are 100`s of these links, all made by arm chair detectives.