Nccc To Prosecute Samak Cabinet Over Joint Comminique

[sriracha john]

NCCC to Prosecute 28 Former Cabinet Ministers for Involvement in Joint Communique

The National Counter Corruption Commission is set to prosecute the 28 Cabinet ministers of the Samak administration for their involvement in the Thai-Cambodian joint communique.

The Constitution Court had ruled that the communique violated Article 190 of the Constitution. The joint declaration was signed by then Foreign Affairs Minister Noppdon Pattama without first receiving approval by Parliament.

The NCCC found the 28 ministers of the Samak administration guilty of participating in the drafting of unconstitutional declaration.

PM Somchai Wongsawat says he's not worried about the NCCC's move. He adds that the NCCC's action will not affect the upcoming Cabinet reshuffle.

A Cabinet reshuffle is expected after the royal cremation ceremony for HRH Princess Galyani Vadhana draws to a close on November 19, 2008.

- TOC / 2008-11-14

======================================================================

This topic-specific thread is started following its initial mention in the News Clippings Forum threads here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2330872

and

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2330971

Edited November 14, 2008 by sriracha john

[jamesjdaly]

The TRT/PPP are just a bunch of corrupt bastards who don't give a flying fuc_k about the country or its economy; only themselves and thieir scummy cronies are the be-all and end-all.

Am I alone in thinking this?

[sriracha john]

NCCC Chairman admits testimonies of 28 former ministers will be time consuming

The Chairman of the National Counter Corruption Commission has admitted that the testimony process of 28 former ministers who failed to comply with Constitution Article 190 Clause 2 by approving the Preah Vihear joint communique will require some time.

After the NCCC presented its case against 28 ministers of the Samak Sundaravej administration to the Parliament today, NCCC Chairman Panthep Klanarongran stated that the commission acts according to law and allows all 28 ministers to explain their allegation to the NCCC either in person or in writing.

The ministers have been cited as failing to comply with Constitution Article 190 Clause 2 in their dealing with the joint communique between Thailand and Cambodia over the registration of Phrea Vihear as World Heritage site. The constitution article requires that the joint communique would have to be first passed through the Parliament.

Mr. Panthep stated that as the NCCC has seen sufficient evidence for a case to be lodged, it must act accordingly.

He said that the commission would try its best to complete the testimony process within the legally allotted time-frame. He also noted that this is the first time Constitution article 190 has been violated.

- ThaiNews / 2008-11-14

[sriracha john]

The TRT/PPP are just a bunch of corrupt bastards who don't give a flying fuc_k about the country or its economy; only themselves and thieir scummy cronies are the be-all and end-all.

Am I alone in thinking this?

Nope.

[Journalist]

The NCCC now appears to be operating as an alternative Executive branch of government.

[animatic]

This is what comes from not bothering to actually READ the constitution you are administering.

Or at very least assign your LAWYERS to read it and take their advice.

It comes from utter incompetence, coupled with lack of any sense of civic duty,

to your job and to your country's people.

I knew this was coming sometime,

it was a foregone conclusion after Noppadom resigned.

Somchai needn't be worried he wasn't in that cabinet then.

But he better watch which faces he shuffles in the door for a round this time.

[sriracha john]

The NCCC now appears to be operating as an alternative Executive branch of government.

In what way are they not following their duties and responsibilities detailed here?

http://www.nccc.thaigov.net/nccc/en/duty.php

[Journalist]

^I daresay they are doing their jobs to the letter and spirit of their mandate.

But the danger for them is that the PPP Government perceives them as gadflies and simply legislates to change the constitution. (again!), and abolishes the NCCC.

Bangkok no longer has a Governor because of an NCCC indictment. The country has to be run, and if interpretation of the Constitution is so narrow that nothing gets done without some bylaw being breached, then anarchy tends to step into that breach before good governance has time to evolve organically.

[TAWP]

I dare say, the country would work better without them.

[Journalist]

^Fine, but nobody seems able to come up with an alternate bunch of people to run the joint day-to-day.

Except for those advocating an army coup!

High level municipal policy administration is on-hold now in Bangkok as Apirak is out. That all has to wait till a new Governor arrives.

Fiscal and monetary policy nationally has to be administered, social service programmes micromanaged, budgets drawn up for hospitals. Someone has to do it else or the place will grind down.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Journalist

[animatic]

^I daresay they are doing their jobs to the letter and spirit of their mandate.

But the danger for them is that the PPP Government perceives them as gadflies and simply legislates to change the constitution. (again!), and abolishes the NCCC.

Bangkok no longer has a Governor because of an NCCC indictment. The country has to be run, and if interpretation of the Constitution is so narrow that nothing gets done without some bylaw being breached, then anarchy tends to step into that breach before good governance has time to evolve organically.

Bangkok has an interim governor I believe.

On the other hand the Government still has a Prime Minister

in SPITE of being indicted in the same manner as Apirak.

And for IMO a greater charge.

Those that are something approximating honorable or honest will resign,

others not of such a high moral stature will ignore it

and bite to the bone for the last bit of rancid grisle on the publlic's carcass.

Edited November 14, 2008 by animatic

[Journalist]

I think some of you are being utopian and are over-fixating on the need for chivalry, honesty and decency in Thai public life. Blue sky scenarios that will only be attained in baby-steps over long periods. In the meantime, the place has to operate even with its dysfunctions.

Countries that have been developed hundreds of years longer than Thailand still have chronic flaws in the way their bureaucrats behave. Take the EU, or UK parliaments. Rampant uselessness and mismanagement of public funds.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Journalist

[animatic]

I think some of you are being utopian and are over-fixating on the need for chivalry, honesty and decency in Thai public life. Blue sky scenarios that will only be attained in baby-steps over long periods. In the meantime, the place has to operate even with its dysfunctions.

Countries that have been developed hundreds of years longer than Thailand still have chronic flaws in the way their bureaucrats behave. Take the EU, or UK parliaments. Rampant uselessness and mismanagement of public funds.

I agree with you in general.

But ANY sign of chivalric honesty is welcome in these parts, no?

I see Apirak's resignation as a baby step.

As much for symbolism as for functionality.

Each group such s Bangkok government has a

number two man or woman to taker over and do the job.

It's not a headless chicken. Just not a properly elected chicken at the moment.

If the NCCC keeps at this, it may FINALLY become obvious that the old day's chicanery

MUST be backed off, if they EVER expect to complete a term in office.

Smarter, smaller thefts over time, rather than the big, in your face, F.U. world, crimes.

Again this IS baby steps surely. Never to eradicate all of the possibilities.

Those still extant EU and US chronic flaws regularly disgorge some Pol who over reached.

And generally we don't gripe about it unless we were profiting from said Pol directly.

[jitagon]

This is all very simple to understand. The Thai judiciary, in how so many and whatsoever form they must take to legally get rid of a divisive, corrupt and autocratic, non government by proxy, are attempting to give the present pigswilling incumbents the bum's rush.

They've done it so many times the Thai Way, the last being the Last Straw in ineptitude, they are fully aware they must sort themselves out once and for all, and do it the long way round, this time. Yet another coup, even the most shortsighted, can see, will merely end in yet another few years of, 'we'll see what we can get away with until they chuck us all out' scenario.

But they will prevail, and Thaksin's proxies and their ilk will hopefully, be a thing of the past.

Then they can get on with truly cracking down on the all pervasive corruption still rampant in all it's varied and nefarious forms. The police and the local OrBorJors would be a very good start, and will indeed make this lovely country, even lovlier.

Edited November 14, 2008 by jitagon

[blaze]

The TRT/PPP are just a bunch of corrupt bastards who don't give a flying fuc_k about the country or its economy; only themselves and thieir scummy cronies are the be-all and end-all.

Am I alone in thinking this?

No you certainly are not alone in thinking that. Nor would you be alone in thinking that the Democrats had no more interest in the common good than the PPP (see Abhisit's recent pledge to support or not support the budget according to whether or not the gov't negotiates with the PAD- if the Dem's believe the budget is a good one, they owe it to all Thais to support it- if they find it flawed- they must oppose it- there should be NO side issues with something as important as the budget).

Once the PPP/TRT has been neutralized- I expect we will see the courts turn their attention to the Democrats. Chart Thai will have been already dissolved. Eventually that wish of the more radical elements supporting the last coup will come to fruition- a nation run by the beaurocrats- the way it was run in the good old days (pre-1932) and with all elected governments little more than sops to international opinion and those few in the country that actually believe in the people's right to determine state policy.

[Plus]

^Fine, but nobody seems able to come up with an alternate bunch of people to run the joint day-to-day.

Ummm, Democrats are always ready, and PAD is proposing New politics to get rid of these <deleted> once and for all.

I think some of you are being utopian and are over-fixating on the need for chivalry, honesty and decency in Thai public life. Blue sky scenarios that will only be attained in baby-steps over long periods. In the meantime, the place has to operate even with its dysfunctions.

Countries that have been developed hundreds of years longer than Thailand still have chronic flaws in the way their bureaucrats behave. Take the EU, or UK parliaments. Rampant uselessness and mismanagement of public funds.

Thailand, or any othe developing country, for that matter, doesn't have the luxury of waiting for two hundreds years to mature.

And don't forget that current state is judged not by some absolute criteria but by people's experience. Thailand had its share of corrupt and impotent governments, this one beats them all by the mile.

I'm tempted to say that the main reason is that PPP delibirately alienated themselves from "elites" and bureaucracy, thinking that they can go alone. They thought that because they've been elected by farmers they would somehow magically obtain qualities and capabilities to run the country. Doesn't work that way.

[prefabs]

The TRT/PPP are just a bunch of corrupt bastards who don't give a flying fuc_k about the country or its economy; only themselves and thieir scummy cronies are the be-all and end-all.

Am I alone in thinking this?

I am confused here. What gain did they get by doing what they are accused of? Maybe I read the OP too quick

[Plus]

What gain did they get by doing what they are accused of?

For them signing Thaksin prepared papers was in their job descriptions when they applied for cabinet posts, he doesn't have to pay them per item.

[h90]

^Fine, but nobody seems able to come up with an alternate bunch of people to run the joint day-to-day.

Except for those advocating an army coup!

High level municipal policy administration is on-hold now in Bangkok as Apirak is out. That all has to wait till a new Governor arrives.

Fiscal and monetary policy nationally has to be administered, social service programmes micromanaged, budgets drawn up for hospitals. Someone has to do it else or the place will grind down.

Or a new breed of honest politician will come into power...they will come don't worry.

You can't let criminals control the country just because you can't see anyone else at the moment.

[Journalist]

^Fine, but nobody seems able to come up with an alternate bunch of people to run the joint day-to-day.

Ummm, Democrats are always ready, and PAD is proposing New politics to get rid of these <deleted> once and for all.

NCCC is going after the Democrats too. Soon there will be nobody Kosher to run the country. Everyone will be fingered for something. (except us, .........and i'm not so sure about me)

'New politics'? Well I don't think the toothpaste will go back in the tube on this one, and that our friend the rural peasant isn't going to tolerate having his voting powers fiddled with just because the people on his voting card were all ambitious ne-er-dowells !

If new politics looks on the cards, then the PPP will go defcon 3 and have every provincial office mustering up coaches to get the underclass down to the capital.

[PhilHarries]

I think some of you are being utopian and are over-fixating on the need for chivalry, honesty and decency in Thai public life. Blue sky scenarios that will only be attained in baby-steps over long periods. In the meantime, the place has to operate even with its dysfunctions.

Countries that have been developed hundreds of years longer than Thailand still have chronic flaws in the way their bureaucrats behave. Take the EU, or UK parliaments. Rampant uselessness and mismanagement of public funds.

Thailand, or any othe developing country, for that matter, doesn't have the luxury of waiting for two hundreds years to mature.

They don't have to. Other countries spent so long coming up with the idea because they were working from ground zero. They had nothing to compare themselves with, were feudal in nature and were usually at each other's throats anyhow. Okay they still haven't got it completely right but they are closer than Thailand will ever be.

Thailand aspires to be civilised it is just a shame that the country is continuously let down by their own bunch of self serving slimeballs they elect to govern.

The only difference between the feudal warlords of 13th century Europe and today's Thai government is that the Thais wear suits and are driven around in Mercs.

[jayjayjayjay]

NCCC to Prosecute 28 Former Cabinet Ministers for Involvement in Joint Communique

The National Counter Corruption Commission is set to prosecute the 28 Cabinet ministers of the Samak administration for their involvement in the Thai-Cambodian joint communique.

The Constitution Court had ruled that the communique violated Article 190 of the Constitution. The joint declaration was signed by then Foreign Affairs Minister Noppdon Pattama without first receiving approval by Parliament.

The NCCC found the 28 ministers of the Samak administration guilty of participating in the drafting of unconstitutional declaration.

PM Somchai Wongsawat says he's not worried about the NCCC's move. He adds that the NCCC's action will not affect the upcoming Cabinet reshuffle.

A Cabinet reshuffle is expected after the royal cremation ceremony for HRH Princess Galyani Vadhana draws to a close on November 19, 2008.

- TOC / 2008-11-14

======================================================================

Thai politics is nothing short of a joke.

and to Plus, don't break your rose coloured glasses, your nievity that Democrates or the guru PAD style of government will perform any better is a pipe dream.

As Journalist said.......... and rightly so.......... the country still has to run. A majority of voter have made there voice heard by selecting MP's to represent them alongside whom they chose to side with. This is the government we have, NOT the Democrates and NOT a PAD chosen archaic group of academics.

Edited November 14, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[Journalist]

Thailand is not a 'yes we can' nation, it is a 'mai pen rai' nation. By that I mean it is not reform minded at a visceral level.

So, therefore you need an Agent of Change. The PAD is not that, because it has no ambitions (it says) to govern.

So who is the only agent of change?

The army.

But get this....

The army doesn't want change. It doesn't want perfect transparent incorruptible governance.

The army likes being in a place where it can have budgets that are ludicrously disproportionate to its military needs. It likes having more generals than you can fit in a football stadium.

You think the army is going to be the deliverer of clean government ???

Think again Webforum Warriors.

[animatic]

What gain did they get by doing what they are accused of?

For them signing Thaksin prepared papers was in their job descriptions when they applied for cabinet posts, he doesn't have to pay them per item.

Thaksin had been doing oil exploration deals with Hun Sen off the adjoining coasts of Cambodia and Thailand.

In sea waters jointly claimed BECAUSE of nationalism and mineral resources and fishing rights.

Not to mention the money laundering at Thai border casinos run by Thaksin cronies.

Thaksin had been throwing Hun Sen a nationalist bone in exchange for getting down to business.

Cambodia wants to refurbish it's international toursit image and a World Heritage site

is a big step in that direction.

So The Boss wanted it, they signed.

But they DIDN'T read the rules of their jobs first.

They COULD have pulled this off relatively quietly,

but instead screwed the pooch yet again!

Edited November 14, 2008 by animatic

[Crushdepth]

[quuote]This is what comes from not bothering to actually READ the constitution you are administering.

Even if they don't bother to read it, ministers have large teams of advisors to keep them out of trouble. Unfortunately many Thai politicians genuinely believe that getting elected gives them carte blanche and that they are above the law. I have no sympathy for any member of the present government.

(If we can call it that).

[sriracha john]

Similar to the NCCC indictment of Bangkok Governor Apirak who resigned his position after indictment, when will the current Cabinet Ministers listed in this NCCC indictment resign their positions?

[sriracha john]

Somchai needn't be worried he wasn't in that cabinet then.

But he better watch which faces he shuffles in the door for a round this time.

actually he was...laughably, as Education Minister

Anyway, in response to the indictment Noppadope lost his nerve and backed out of a press conference....

Former Foreign Minister Cancels Press Conference on Preah Vihear Ruling

The former Foreign Affairs Minister, who had to resign because of the Preah Vihear Temple controversy, has cancelled a press conference to counter the decision by the National Counter Corruption Commission to charge 28 ministers of the previous government with violating the Constitution.

Meanwhile, the prime minister says he will have to look over documents in the case before meeting the commission to explain himself.

Last night, the NCCC announced a decision to charge 28 ministers in the Samak Sundaravej government for violating article 190 of the Constitution in endorsing the joint communique that allowed Cambodia to solely list Preah Vihear Temple as a World Heritage Site.

Former Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama originally scheduled a press conference for this morning, but later decided to cancel it. Noppadon had to resign from his post over this controversy.

Upon his return this morning at 5 am from attending the BIMSTEC meeting in India, Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat commented on the issue, saying it is merely a decision by the NCCC to announce the charge against the ministers.

The next step will have to be the ministers' clarification before the commission. He added that he has not seen documents concerning how the clarification will proceed.

When asked whether this will affect the government's work, Somchai insisted it will not and said as long as he is in power, he will continue to work until the end of his term. He promised to work for the benefit of the people.

The NCCC announced its charge against 28 ministers in the Samak Cabinet who attended the Cabinet meeting on June 17 this year, which endorsed the controversial joint communique. The 28 include most ministers in the current administration, as well as Somchai himself, who was Education Minister at the time.

The charge concerns violation of article 190 of the Constitution, which states that any agreement that pertains to the country's sovereignty must be approved by Parliament before it can be signed by the government.

The NCCC will officially charge the 28 within 15 days, after which they can appear before the commission to clarify the charge or forfeit that right.

A letter will be sent to former Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej's house about the charge, and the commission believes he will return in time to clarify the charge even though he is currently in the United States seeking treatment for live cancer.

Six ministers who were absent from the meeting will not be charged. They include former Finance Minister Surapong Suebwonglee, current Tourism and Sports Minister Weerasak Kowsurat, former Deputy Interior Minister Sitthichai Kowsurat, and former Energy Minister Poonpirom Liptapanlop.

- TOC / 2008-11-14

[Plus]

Cue Sjak and Journalist to defend Somchai and co, because it's all for the "People" with capital P.

[younghusband]

Cue Sjak and Journalist to defend Somchai and co, because it's all for the "People" with capital P.

In the Alice of Wonderland world of PAD fanatics, even the bizarre and abnormal is passed off as legitimate.What on earth's business is this -prima facie a perfectly reasonable Cabinet decision- of the NCCC?And don't relay some fevered rumour of some quid pro quo for gambling interests in Cambodia.And the joke is that the whole affair was manipulated by PAD to stir up nationalist excesses.Tossers.

[phupaman]

To jamesjdaly.

No James you are not alone.

phupaman.