I've been told that 'normal' (Japanese?) grass is difficult to grow here, and that the broad leaf stuff is the only sane choice. However, I've seen decent lawns and have tried my best to get one. I've put down a bit of sand, sieved the clay and <deleted> out of the top soil. Turfed and returfed. Watered lots, too. After a few weeks it looks thin and ugly.

If I can't get any help, I' may have to returf it with that broad leaf stuff or give up altogether.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!

I've been told that 'normal' (Japanese?) grass is difficult to grow here, and that the broad leaf stuff is the only sane choice. However, I've seen decent lawns and have tried my best to get one. I've put down a bit of sand, sieved the clay and <deleted> out of the top soil. Turfed and returfed. Watered lots, too. After a few weeks it looks thin and ugly.

If I can't get any help, I' may have to returf it with that broad leaf stuff or give up altogether.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!

My oh my so many lookers and no one to give advice on this subject. Well, here goes:

Grass can be some of the most difficult time consuming stuff to grow and take care of but it can be done. Turf grass in sod form (that's the plant growing in a soil medium that is about 2-3 inches thick and won't really fall apart when you shake the thing) should be able to be grown on cement darn near.

Here in Hua Hin "zoysia" is a perennial grass that is indigenous to this area, and can be closely mown with no adverse effects. I see no reason in Thailand, unless you live way up north in the mountains and cold, to be planting other foreign (Japanese) varieties.

Passpalum is another variety that they use for golf course turfgrass and will take a very low cut also, it is drought tolerant and somewhat salt tolerant also. If your planting bed is properly cultivated (as it appears it may) and you have just average soil, then you would apply one of many types of fertilizer to your soil before you plant, so that it will be readily available to the root structure as it starts to move through the earth.

Sod (that is turfgrass with roots in a medium of soil that is, the soil that is, is 2-3 inches thick with a good root structure) in any of the two varieties I mentioned should be very simple to grow, unless your soil has some severe problems (large amounts of good organic compost and some manures incorporated into most soils usually will guarantee that your soil will be adequate to grow turfgrass. Established turfgrass has no problem growing vigorously over cart paths on golf courses where there is no soil!).

Watering shouldn't be an issue unless your soil is so full of clay that there is no drainage and you have trouble with the soil retaining large amounts of water, which will cause problems.

You said you used some sand, but generally even heavy clay will suffice to grow turfgrass - you just don't want to overwater it causing standing and puddling water.

The best time to water is just before dawn as night-time watering can lead to disease. Watering during the day should be done when you see the grass start to look dull on an extremely hot day.

With new sod and sprigging you'll be watering more often and multiple times in the day in the beginning. You shouldn't be too concerned about causing burning due to magnification of the sun by water with grass as that can be a problem for other more sensitive plants.

Sooo, as with most plantings you need to use the best strains of whatever you are planting that is most suitable for your area. If you have not been buying these "carpets" of turf (not sod) that I have seen some guys in pick-ups selling by the side of the road that have no earth attached to the plant or the tiny amount of root attached then it should be no problem growing a good established sod of the varieties I've told you about, or really anything else that has been grown here in a turf nursery.

If you got the other, then my recommendation would be to lay the carpet down and then cover the entire thing with good earth and start to water the heck out of it, because basically you will be doing a "sprigging" (planting small cuttings similar to seeding), not a sodding of grass, and you are probably paying way too much for what you are getting.

With sprigging as with seed, you will want to put water on the seed - probably at least a half a dozen times daily, but just enough to make the ground moist.

Don't let the ground get dry and don't let it puddle or wash the seeds or sprigs. Once you have established turfgrass then you would have a program of watering that would be once a day or less but opposite to sprigging you would want to do deep watering and puddling, for a short amount of time isn't an issue as long as it is gone in a few minutes time.

With good sod something like 15-15-15 in the soil before planting and the smw ont the turf after a few weeks should be what is needed to give it the start it needs for a lovely lawn.

Ideally, well aged cow manure would be a much better alternative if you were hoping to grow the turf organically, as the zoysia and paspalum would easily allow.

Good luck, keep your head down and your left arm straight and Fore

I have a nice lawn of Ya Nippon (the so-called Japanese grass) in rural Chiang Mai, and at a former home here I grew Ya Malaysia (the broadleaf greass that you mentioned) (it does better in shade). I have mixed feelings about lawns, because they have their downside on environmental impact, but I have a family and pets and they love the lawn in the front yard.

Preparation is everything, and then watering and fertilization. Don't rule out fungal disease and pest problems if your lawn fails repeatedly after you have done everything else right.

Email me and tell me more about where you are located and what the site conditions are and what kind of base soil you have, new mooban development clay fill, or rice land or what. Did you add organic matter (compost) to the base soil, or only sand? Some pics would help. I can maybe help diagnose your problems and help walk you through a rejuvenation.

Preparation should include adding composted organic matter. Raw organic matter, rice hulls or other will rob the grass of nitrogen to decompose the organic matter. I prefer to make my own compost, but the best commercially available compost that I have found here is the finely ground and fully composted Maw Din from CP. It is expensive (150 bt/ 25 kilo sack), but if you have the budget it will help your lawn get off to a good start. Spread at least an inch or two thickness of compost, over the area to be planted before you rototill. If you don't have access to a rototiller, just dig it in thoroughly and water settle the soil for a week or two. Watch for weed seeds to sprout and pull them as they come up.

With your lawn bed prepared and graded for drainage and appearance the way you want, and raked smooth, lay out the freshly acquired sod. Sod here usually comes with little or no soil, so it will dry out very fast. You must install and water right away. Commercial landscapers water the installed sod and roll it with a water filled roller to press the roots down into the wet soil beneath and even out the surface.

Keep it muddy wet for a day or two, then back off and water twice daily to establish. Better yet, plant at the beginning of the rainy season, which is also the spring/summer growing season, and only water when it doesn't rain that day.

Allow the grass to get growing a little before you mow or fertilize. If you are mowing with a lawn mower, set the wheel height adjustments to mow high, 2 - 3 inches, don't scalp the grass, mow often enough that you only have to take off 1/4 to 1/3 of the blade height. Keep the mower blade sharp.

Fertilize every 6 weeks. Lawns use a lot of nitrogen, and nitrogen leaches with watering and rains. What to use is a big question. You can base initial fertilization on soil analysis, but most people just use a complete NPK fertilizer. heavier on the nitrogen side. 46:0:0 is urea; it's the cheapest nitrogen but it will burn the hel_l out of your grass if applied too heavily or not watered in well. Ammonium sulphate is good lawn nitrogen, 26?:0:0, but will also burn. These are cheaper than say 15:15:15. Alternate for cost effectiveness. Organic fertilizers, like finely ground manure is better than chemicals if you have it available.

I could go on and on, but there are some points to start with. don

I have a nice lawn of Ya Nippon (the so-called Japanese grass) in rural Chiang Mai, and at a former home here I grew Ya Malaysia (the broadleaf greass that you mentioned) (it does better in shade). I have mixed feelings about lawns, because they have their downside on environmental impact, but I have a family and pets and they love the lawn in the front yard.

Preparation is everything, and then watering and fertilization. Don't rule out fungal disease and pest problems if your lawn fails repeatedly after you have done everything else right.

Email me and tell me more about where you are located and what the site conditions are and what kind of base soil you have, new mooban development clay fill, or rice land or what. Did you add organic matter (compost) to the base soil, or only sand? Some pics would help. I can maybe help diagnose your problems and help walk you through a rejuvenation.

Preparation should include adding composted organic matter. Raw organic matter, rice hulls or other will rob the grass of nitrogen to decompose the organic matter. I prefer to make my own compost, but the best commercially available compost that I have found here is the finely ground and fully composted Maw Din from CP. It is expensive (150 bt/ 25 kilo sack), but if you have the budget it will help your lawn get off to a good start. Spread at least an inch or two thickness of compost, over the area to be planted before you rototill. If you don't have access to a rototiller, just dig it in thoroughly and water settle the soil for a week or two. Watch for weed seeds to sprout and pull them as they come up.

With your lawn bed prepared and graded for drainage and appearance the way you want, and raked smooth, lay out the freshly acquired sod. Sod here usually comes with little or no soil, so it will dry out very fast. You must install and water right away. Commercial landscapers water the installed sod and roll it with a water filled roller to press the roots down into the wet soil beneath and even out the surface.

Keep it muddy wet for a day or two, then back off and water twice daily to establish. Better yet, plant at the beginning of the rainy season, which is also the spring/summer growing season, and only water when it doesn't rain that day.

Allow the grass to get growing a little before you mow or fertilize. If you are mowing with a lawn mower, set the wheel height adjustments to mow high, 2 - 3 inches, don't scalp the grass, mow often enough that you only have to take off 1/4 to 1/3 of the blade height. Keep the mower blade sharp.

Fertilize every 6 weeks. Lawns use a lot of nitrogen, and nitrogen leaches with watering and rains. What to use is a big question. You can base initial fertilization on soil analysis, but most people just use a complete NPK fertilizer. heavier on the nitrogen side. 46:0:0 is urea; it's the cheapest nitrogen but it will burn the hel_l out of your grass if applied too heavily or not watered in well. Ammonium sulphate is good lawn nitrogen, 26?:0:0, but will also burn. These are cheaper than say 15:15:15. Alternate for cost effectiveness. Organic fertilizers, like finely ground manure is better than chemicals if you have it available.

I could go on and on, but there are some points to start with. don

Well done you must have made one man very happy. My only suggestion would be to (if practical) try to get some kind over earth or compost covering the carpet of grass that they are selling: anything that can protect the fragile roots from the sun and can also hold water on them will benefit the grower greatly. I used to bring in tractor trailer loasds of the stuff when seeding in golf courses and making repairs, you just can't almost use too much good compost. It's a great return for the buck if you have a good source. I also recommend that you do a search on Grass in the Farming section of the fForum to get a bunch more info. Agian your help is a great thing. Good Luck with all

Foreverford, you are absolutely right, I neglected to mention a top dressing after the planting. All the points in your posts and your goodwill are well taken; should get him off to a good start.

You know , I was reading this thread just out of curiosity , I smiled and had a chuckle or two with all the intensive work in preparation , fertilising , watering etc . I have watched these goings on in Canada and a few months later , there is the same guy scratching his head in dimay , browm spots , bare spots etc . I walked to the drainage ditch and admired the lush green growth , I asked him why he did not just transplant the ditch grass and save himself some agro , he went into the house and fetched his wife , pointed to the ditch and we all had a good laugh .

Moral of the story , just dig a ditch and sit , watch and wait

You know , I was reading this thread just out of curiosity , I smiled and had a chuckle or two with all the intensive work in preparation , fertilising , watering etc . I have watched these goings on in Canada and a few months later , there is the same guy scratching his head in dimay , browm spots , bare spots etc . I walked to the drainage ditch and admired the lush green growth , I asked him why he did not just transplant the ditch grass and save himself some agro , he went into the house and fetched his wife , pointed to the ditch and we all had a good laugh .

Moral of the story , just dig a ditch and sit , watch and wait

Love Ya Dumball

A better trick is to plant flower garden. That will guarantee you have nothing but lush unkillable grass growing any and everywhere. That is why I try to get people to use Zoysia (the weed of Thailand) that has been sold all over the world for its many beneficial properties and here you can't kill it. In Hua Hin they have done probably what your friend did in Canada and plante some expensive "University educated grass strain". turfgrass similar to that is nothing but work asnd constant chems to try to keep it looking like the picture books. One and only one course had Zoysia (now Banyan has it also) for the fairways (all were plante in about 1991) of the half a dozen or so here, by far the finest fairways in all of Hua Hin are the Zoysia at Majestic. Nicklaus missed the ball at Springfield when he planted some sort of hybrid Bermuda and their fairways are very average to maybe not so by my thoughts but all golfers of all abilities unequivocably state bezst fariways by a long shot are the Zoysia at Majestic.

I was thinking of my top dressing advice and in Thailand the simplest and probably the least expensive way to get a new carpet going with the Thai cut of sod (no earth on the roots) would be to almost completely cover the grass after tyou have laid it would be to put a thick coating of rice hulls on it as they are everywhere and inexpensive very light weight for easy spreading and covering after you lawn is well well established make sure tio get some more extra nitrogen into it (perferable a well aged cow manure to assist in the breakdown of the hulls which would eventually compete with the grass for nitrogen due to its breaking down. After that enjoy and wack a few divots out of it for me or just let the dogs and kids tear it up. Also very important after a year or so is to try to destroy it as much as possible, cut it very low and go at it with a heavy steel bow rake or nuclear devices. give it a good topdressing and a nice fertilizing, again the manure, or some 15-15-15 and a good soaking. By pulling out any thatch and decomposing materials right at the interface of the plant and the ground will allow for good circulation eliminate disease and force the plant to put out new roots and growth which will aid in developing a green and enjoyable lawn. You should always want to see earth when you scratch under your turf grass don't let a massive amount of old thick knarly thatch start to form between the leaf and the earth. Turf grass is not the easiest thing to grow, but when possible, try to stay with indigenous or what has been a proven easy care type (mayybe the Japanese stuff) and it can be a fun pastime and a cool pleasant thing for the eye, mind and body . Choke Dee you can't have enough Choke Dee in life.

A good friend had the same problem, he decided he wanted his yard to look like a putting green, hired the greens keeper at local golf course to come over weekly on his day off, plant, grow and maintain his green, best decision he made on his home, quit reasonable in cost.