Athenee Residence

[corkscrew]

The Bangkok Post and The Nation have carried some good stories about the Athenee Residence....a condominium between soi Ruam Rudi and Wireless (adjacent to Ploenchit)....that make it look like a super place to live. Any thoughts?

[susah_sih]

Most are sold out.

Expensive compared to other Bangkok condo Bt120,000/sqm

but very cheap compared to Hong Kong apartment Bt500,000/sqm.

80 out of 200 units were sold out before launching of the condo.

(I guess these were sold to the friends of Charoen and also probably

enjoy big discounts to the listed price)

The Bangkok Post and The Nation have carried some good stories about the Athenee Residence....a condominium between soi Ruam Rudi and Wireless (adjacent to Ploenchit)....that make it look like a super place to live. Any thoughts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Sumitr Man]

Expensive compared to other Bangkok condo Bt120,000/sqm

I think expensive has to be the operative word in this. So far as I'm aware, no condo property anywhere in Thailand (including Phuket, Samui, Bangkok, etc.) has ever sold for more than Bt.100k/sqm. A few years ago All Seasons were selling at Bt. 80k/sqm and everyone thought it was mad - but this just seems to be extreme.

The question I have: what kind of return can anyone possible hope to get from this. Also, keep in mind that farangs cannot own more than 49% of the building (unless they have PR status)?

So, you're selling to 51% Thai market - at 100k++/sqm...

...and for what, a place behind the back of Plaza hotel with absolutely no view, horrid access and little in the way of nearby amenities.

Crazy is not the word!

SM

Edited December 14, 2004 by Sumitr Man

[susah_sih]

Not only that the persq m is expensive, units are also big so in the end

most people fork out anything above Bt25,000,000/condo

High floors with good view are all sold out.

They only have a few units left.

Expensive compared to other Bangkok condo Bt120,000/sqm

I think expensive has to be the operative word in this. So far as I'm aware, no condo property anywhere in Thailand (including Phuket, Samui, Bangkok, etc.) has ever sold for more than Bt.100k/sqm. A few years ago All Seasons were selling at Bt. 80k/sqm and everyone thought it was mad - but this just seems to be extreme.

The question I have: what kind of return can anyone possible hope to get from this. Also, keep in mind that farangs cannot own more than 49% of the building (unless they have PR status)?

So, you're selling to 51% Thai market - at 100k++/sqm...

...and for what, a place behind the back of Plaza hotel with absolutely no view, horrid access and little in the way of nearby amenities.

Crazy is not the word!

SM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[thedude]

Expensive compared to other Bangkok condo Bt120,000/sqm

I think expensive has to be the operative word in this. So far as I'm aware, no condo property anywhere in Thailand (including Phuket, Samui, Bangkok, etc.) has ever sold for more than Bt.100k/sqm. A few years ago All Seasons were selling at Bt. 80k/sqm and everyone thought it was mad - but this just seems to be extreme.

The question I have: what kind of return can anyone possible hope to get from this. Also, keep in mind that farangs cannot own more than 49% of the building (unless they have PR status)?

So, you're selling to 51% Thai market - at 100k++/sqm...

...and for what, a place behind the back of Plaza hotel with absolutely no view, horrid access and little in the way of nearby amenities.

Crazy is not the word!

SM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, there are other places that have sold for higher than 100k psm, e.g. the Rajadhamri project launched in 2003 by Sansiri, and more recently The Park Chidlom, is also averaging above 100k psm. Even some Grade A resale condos like Somkid Gardens and some freehold units on Lang Suan have been known to transact above 100k psm. But these prices have so far only been achieved in the Ploenchit area, ie Wireless, Lang Suan, Ton Son, Somkid, Chidlom, Rajadhamri, although for Ruamrudee itself this is a record.

Even though capital values are still far below other regional centers like Hong Kong, I tend to agree that prices are toppish because like you point out, the returns are not too fantastic. A recent report by JLL put investment yields at 4.6-6.0%, which means that the upside is quite limited if you consider that pension funds here are taking in about 4.5% for other investment grade properties. And why should foreign funds move in when they can still get 8.5% in KL and 9% in Shanghai, other places with a comparable risk profile?

But the thing about this market is that many of these high-end purchases are not purely rent driven, for example there are many rich people just parking their funds now that equities have taken a tumble. People also hope that they have bought into an increasingly rare piece of real estate because a few years down the road, it would be impossible to find a replacement as this part of town becomes fully developed. So these high end buyers are looking more for longer term capital appreciation, which from my experience, they can't go wrong, but they may have to sit out a few intervening property cycles.

As to the Athenee project, all I can say is that Mr Charoen has already made his money back by stiffing his Singapore partners with a high land price, and they are in turn trying to make it back by jacking up the selling price. Charoen will make a second windfall from the condo sales if all goes well.

Edited December 15, 2004 by thedude

[trajan]

Not only that the persq m is expensive, units are also big so in the end

most people fork out anything above Bt25,000,000/condo

High floors with good view are all sold out.

They only have a few units left.

Susah Sih,

actually when I visited as of last Saturday, Jan 8th, 56 units (out of a total of 219 units) were still available to buy.

Out of the 56 units available, 6 units in the "high zone" (Floors 30-38) with really good views were still available. Those "high zone" available units ranged from 178 sq. meters to 209 sq. meters.

29 units were available in the middle zone (Floors 21-29)

21 units were available in the low zone (Floors 8-20)

I think in the next month or so most of these last units will be snapped up.

[corkscrew]

Expensive compared to other Bangkok condo Bt120,000/sqm

I think expensive has to be the operative word in this. So far as I'm aware, no condo property anywhere in Thailand (including Phuket, Samui, Bangkok, etc.) has ever sold for more than Bt.100k/sqm. A few years ago All Seasons were selling at Bt. 80k/sqm and everyone thought it was mad - but this just seems to be extreme.

The question I have: what kind of return can anyone possible hope to get from this. Also, keep in mind that farangs cannot own more than 49% of the building (unless they have PR status)?

So, you're selling to 51% Thai market - at 100k++/sqm...

...and for what, a place behind the back of Plaza hotel with absolutely no view, horrid access and little in the way of nearby amenities.

Crazy is not the word!

SM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, there are other places that have sold for higher than 100k psm, e.g. the Rajadhamri project launched in 2003 by Sansiri, and more recently The Park Chidlom, is also averaging above 100k psm. Even some Grade A resale condos like Somkid Gardens and some freehold units on Lang Suan have been known to transact above 100k psm. But these prices have so far only been achieved in the Ploenchit area, ie Wireless, Lang Suan, Ton Son, Somkid, Chidlom, Rajadhamri, although for Ruamrudee itself this is a record.

Even though capital values are still far below other regional centers like Hong Kong, I tend to agree that prices are toppish because like you point out, the returns are not too fantastic. A recent report by JLL put investment yields at 4.6-6.0%, which means that the upside is quite limited if you consider that pension funds here are taking in about 4.5% for other investment grade properties. And why should foreign funds move in when they can still get 8.5% in KL and 9% in Shanghai, other places with a comparable risk profile?

But the thing about this market is that many of these high-end purchases are not purely rent driven, for example there are many rich people just parking their funds now that equities have taken a tumble. People also hope that they have bought into an increasingly rare piece of real estate because a few years down the road, it would be impossible to find a replacement as this part of town becomes fully developed. So these high end buyers are looking more for longer term capital appreciation, which from my experience, they can't go wrong, but they may have to sit out a few intervening property cycles.

As to the Athenee project, all I can say is that Mr Charoen has already made his money back by stiffing his Singapore partners with a high land price, and they are in turn trying to make it back by jacking up the selling price. Charoen will make a second windfall from the condo sales if all goes well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Athenee Residence has the advantage of being located on the best piece of available property in Bangkok...sure, the price may seem high now...but 5 - 10 years from now people will have wished that they bought there.

The construction is being done by a first rate Japanese (with Thai partner) company. The 'fittings' are deluxe. The fllor plans are the most creative.

Access to both Wireless Road and Ruom Rudee is a golden gateway. And the proximity to the Skytrain is super.

[Digger]

Expensive compared to other Bangkok condo Bt120,000/sqm

I think expensive has to be the operative word in this. So far as I'm aware, no condo property anywhere in Thailand (including Phuket, Samui, Bangkok, etc.) has ever sold for more than Bt.100k/sqm. A few years ago All Seasons were selling at Bt. 80k/sqm and everyone thought it was mad - but this just seems to be extreme.

The question I have: what kind of return can anyone possible hope to get from this. Also, keep in mind that farangs cannot own more than 49% of the building (unless they have PR status)?

So, you're selling to 51% Thai market - at 100k++/sqm...

...and for what, a place behind the back of Plaza hotel with absolutely no view, horrid access and little in the way of nearby amenities.

Crazy is not the word!

SM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, there are other places that have sold for higher than 100k psm, e.g. the Rajadhamri project launched in 2003 by Sansiri, and more recently The Park Chidlom, is also averaging above 100k psm. Even some Grade A resale condos like Somkid Gardens and some freehold units on Lang Suan have been known to transact above 100k psm. But these prices have so far only been achieved in the Ploenchit area, ie Wireless, Lang Suan, Ton Son, Somkid, Chidlom, Rajadhamri, although for Ruamrudee itself this is a record.

Even though capital values are still far below other regional centers like Hong Kong, I tend to agree that prices are toppish because like you point out, the returns are not too fantastic. A recent report by JLL put investment yields at 4.6-6.0%, which means that the upside is quite limited if you consider that pension funds here are taking in about 4.5% for other investment grade properties. And why should foreign funds move in when they can still get 8.5% in KL and 9% in Shanghai, other places with a comparable risk profile?

But the thing about this market is that many of these high-end purchases are not purely rent driven, for example there are many rich people just parking their funds now that equities have taken a tumble. People also hope that they have bought into an increasingly rare piece of real estate because a few years down the road, it would be impossible to find a replacement as this part of town becomes fully developed. So these high end buyers are looking more for longer term capital appreciation, which from my experience, they can't go wrong, but they may have to sit out a few intervening property cycles.

As to the Athenee project, all I can say is that Mr Charoen has already made his money back by stiffing his Singapore partners with a high land price, and they are in turn trying to make it back by jacking up the selling price. Charoen will make a second windfall from the condo sales if all goes well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Athenee Residence has the advantage of being located on the best piece of available property in Bangkok...sure, the price may seem high now...but 5 - 10 years from now people will have wished that they bought there.

The construction is being done by a first rate Japanese (with Thai partner) company. The 'fittings' are deluxe. The fllor plans are the most creative.

Access to both Wireless Road and Ruom Rudee is a golden gateway. And the proximity to the Skytrain is super.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They said that about the hotel as well - however its never been successfull and has been hit hard by the Conrad opening and a rejuvinated Nai Lert Park. Even before the Conrad opened and with all of M Thai occupied by high end Multinational businesses they could not get anywhere in terms of occupancy because they felt their product was unique and they were pitched 20-50% higher than other comparible hotels. End result is a disaster and now effective management has been given to Meridien. Personally I think the hotel will continue to struggle and the condos will as well.

[trajan]

They said that about the hotel as well - however its never been successfull and has been hit hard by the Conrad opening and a rejuvinated Nai Lert Park.  Even before the Conrad opened and with all of M Thai occupied by high end Multinational businesses they could not get anywhere in terms of occupancy because they felt their product was unique and they were pitched 20-50% higher than other comparible hotels.  End result is a disaster and now effective management has been given to Meridien.    Personally I think the hotel will continue to struggle and the condos will as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree...that reasoning really does not apply to quality residential condos in a prime prime location....

also Plaza Athenee Hotel suffered to a degree from not being part of an international chain... Conrad is part of the Hilton chain and Nailert was part of the Hilton chain (now under Raffles management).....now Plaza Athenee Hotel is under management of the Le Merdien chain which should help it. International travelers naturally gravitate towards familar brand chain names (especially ones with loyalty programs)......

[Digger]

They said that about the hotel as well - however its never been successfull and has been hit hard by the Conrad opening and a rejuvinated Nai Lert Park.   Even before the Conrad opened and with all of M Thai occupied by high end Multinational businesses they could not get anywhere in terms of occupancy because they felt their product was unique and they were pitched 20-50% higher than other comparible hotels.  End result is a disaster and now effective management has been given to Meridien.    Personally I think the hotel will continue to struggle and the condos will as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree...that reasoning really does not apply to quality residential condos in a prime prime location....

also Plaza Athenee Hotel suffered to a degree from not being part of an international chain... Conrad is part of the Hilton chain and Nailert was part of the Hilton chain (now under Raffles management).....now Plaza Athenee Hotel is under management of the Le Merdien chain which should help it. International travelers naturally gravitate towards familar brand chain names (especially ones with loyalty programs)......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As with all real estate, the proof will be in the resale values. I merely observed that they screwed up the hotel by pitching the price too high and then asuming because of their location (next to M Thai Tower) that they would be able to sell rooms at a premium. The reality was very different - most corporations kept their travellers in Marriott, Regent, Nai Lert Park and Dusit because it was cheaper, signifigantly so that they felt their is no point in paying that price for a product which was frankly very poor value for the price. I agree with your comment about loyalty programmes for sure but Meridien does not have anywhere near the right coverage in Asia Pacific for business travellers. Therefore if a traveller is driven by loyalty programmes he will continue to stay in Starwoods, Marriotts & Hyatts out of preference.

Personally I quite like the location having lived in Soi Rumradee for 6 months but I still think they are way too expensive.

[trajan]

As with all real estate, the proof will be in the resale values.   I merely observed that they screwed up the hotel by pitching the price too high and then asuming because of their location (next to M Thai Tower) that they would be able to sell rooms at a premium.    The reality was very different - most corporations kept their travellers in Marriott, Regent, Nai Lert Park and Dusit because it was cheaper, signifigantly so that they felt their is no point in paying that price for a product which was frankly very poor value for the price.    I agree with your comment about loyalty programmes for sure but Meridien does not have anywhere near the right coverage in Asia Pacific for business travellers.  Therefore if a traveller is driven by loyalty programmes he will continue to stay in Starwoods, Marriotts & Hyatts out of preference.

Personally I quite like the location having lived in Soi Rumradee for 6 months but I still think they are way too expensive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree that Starwood (Westin, Sheraton etc.), Marriott, Hyatt and Hilton (and possibly Intercontinental/Holiday Inn) brands have wider and more successful loyalty programs....but an experienced international hotel management chain like Le Meridien might set more competitive room rates and provide sought after amenities etc. (rather than having the hotel owner setting unrealistic rates)....

.... I also believe that the Athenee Residence condos (in joint venture with the very successful CapitaLand group of Singapore (mother company of the Raffles group, Ascott group etc.) will be successful in the longer term....prime prime location (with dwindling land supply in that area) and quality construction will win out in the end.....remember there will also be a new adjacent office tower as well....

by the way, just a few years ago, conventional wisdom was that the impossibly high, record breaking per square meter prices of "All Seasons Mansion" were ridiculous and unsupportable and doomed to failure. I have first hand knowledge that the secondary market has proven this previous conventional wisdom VERY wrong. Laughing all the way to the bank.....

nothing is risk free, but I believe the risks for this area are lower even in market slump scenarios.....

Edited January 12, 2005 by trajan

[susah_sih]

Not only that the persq m is expensive, units are also big so in the end

most people fork out anything above Bt25,000,000/condo

High floors with good view are all sold out.

They only have a few units left.

Susah Sih,

actually when I visited as of last Saturday, Jan 8th, 56 units (out of a total of 219 units) were still available to buy.

Out of the 56 units available, 6 units in the "high zone" (Floors 30-38) with really good views were still available. Those "high zone" available units ranged from 178 sq. meters to 209 sq. meters.

29 units were available in the middle zone (Floors 21-29)

21 units were available in the low zone (Floors 8-20)

I think in the next month or so most of these last units will be snapped up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I visited Athanee showunit sometime in December. And all of the high floors

(30-38) were marked with red and green dots. The 6 available units were

probably those units marked with the green dots (booked only, but the sales were

not closed).

I personally prefer the Regent Residences for a number of things:

* The Regent brand, rather than The Athanee. Though I am not brand fanatics, it makes the condos better known and therefore easier to sell if I need to. I told a friend who's working in Hong Kong, he was immediately interested in the Regent and bought two units in Dec., but when I told them Athanee, he had no clue on the name and he thought it's something to do with with the Greek.

* Athanee units on high floors are big units and therefore you need to spend more than Bt20 million. I dont think I want to sink in more than Bt10 million in one condo.

* Two real estate brokers told me that the owner of Athanee, Khun Charoen (sp ?) gave so much discount to his friends and to his daughter's friends. I also read an article here on thaivisa, someone complaining about this unfair discount.

* What about the toll way next to Ruam Rudee, will it be a nuisance to the Athanee? I have in the past lived in an apartment with toll way next to it and the sound of cars speeding on tollway was especially clear and bugging at night time.

[trajan]

Not only that the persq m is expensive, units are also big so in the end

most people fork out anything above Bt25,000,000/condo

High floors with good view are all sold out.

They only have a few units left.

Susah Sih,

actually when I visited as of last Saturday, Jan 8th, 56 units (out of a total of 219 units) were still available to buy.

Out of the 56 units available, 6 units in the "high zone" (Floors 30-38) with really good views were still available. Those "high zone" available units ranged from 178 sq. meters to 209 sq. meters.

29 units were available in the middle zone (Floors 21-29)

21 units were available in the low zone (Floors 8-20)

I think in the next month or so most of these last units will be snapped up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I visited Athanee showunit sometime in December. And all of the high floors

(30-38) were marked with red and green dots. The 6 available units were

probably those units marked with the green dots (booked only, but the sales were

not closed).

I personally prefer the Regent Residences for a number of things:

* The Regent brand, rather than The Athanee. Though I am not brand fanatics, it makes the condos better known and therefore easier to sell if I need to. I told a friend who's working in Hong Kong, he was immediately interested in the Regent and bought two units in Dec., but when I told them Athanee, he had no clue on the name and he thought it's something to do with with the Greek.

* Athanee units on high floors are big units and therefore you need to spend more than Bt20 million. I dont think I want to sink in more than Bt10 million in one condo.

* Two real estate brokers told me that the owner of Athanee, Khun Charoen (sp ?) gave so much discount to his friends and to his daughter's friends. I also read an article here on thaivisa, someone complaining about this unfair discount.

* What about the toll way next to Ruam Rudee, will it be a nuisance to the Athanee? I have in the past lived in an apartment with toll way next to it and the sound of cars speeding on tollway was especially clear and bugging at night time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*actually, I took a photo on my PDA phone and the red and green dots are not on those 6 units, but you are right... they are expensive (cheapest about Baht20 Million). Much more expensive if you compare to Regent Residence on Sukhumvit.

(but actually if you compare a similar size unit (130 sq meters) on Floor 32 front view at Regent and similar size unit on Floor 32 at Athenee they are roughly same in price about 12.5Mil compared to 15 Mil). But that is moot because those units are all sold out in Athenee. For roughly the same price I would definitely choose Athenee...

*Regent brand is really not the same after the top quality "Four Seasons" chain sold it to Carlson (which has the more down market "Radisson" hotel chain) <http://www.regenthotels.com>. The "Regent" name is still famous in HK because in the past there was a hi-class "Regent Hong Kong" on Lord Salisbury Rd in TST (with fleets of Daimler limos)-- but since 2001 no more (now a more pedestrian "Intercontinental")... I think you would be unfairly relying on past associations with the name...

*In Asia, there remains only: (a) Regent Kuala Lumpur (mid-level), ( Regent Singapore (dont know quality), (c ) Grand Formosa Regent Taipei (very nice) and (d) Almaty Regent (dont know). Another Regent might open in Ningbo (PRC) (oh boy).

*If you are focusing on brand names, I think you might have forgotten that Athenee Plaza Hotel is now a "Le Meridien Hotel", which, in my opinion is MUCH more substantial than the current Regent Brand...here's some Le Meridiens in Asia:

Cambodia Siem Reap Le Meridien Angkor

French Polynesia Bora Bora Le Meridien

French Polynesia Tahiti Le Meridien

India Ahmedabad Le Meridien

India Bangalore Le Meridien

India Chennai Le Royal Meridien

India Cochin Le Meridien

India Jaipur Le Meridien

India Mumbai Le Royal Meridien

India New Delhi Le Meridien

India Pune Le Meridien

India Trivandrum Le Meridien Kovalam Beach Resort & Spa

Indonesia Bali Le Meridien Nirwana Golf & Spa Resort

Indonesia Jakarta Le Meridien

Japan Tokyo Le Meridien Grand Pacific

Japan Tokyo Le Meridien Pacific

Malaysia Kuala Lumpur Le Meridien

New Caledonia Ile des Pins Le Meridien

New Caledonia Noumea Le Meridien

PRC Hong Kong Le Meridien Cyberport

Singapore Changi Le Meridien Changi Village

Singapore Singapore Le Meridien Singapore

Thailand Bangkok Plaza Athenee Bangkok, A Royal Meridien Hotel

Thailand Khao Lak Le Meridien Khao Lak Beach & Spa Resort

Thailand Koh Samui Le Royal Meridien Baan Taling Ngam

Thailand Phuket Le Meridien Phuket Beach Resort

Thailand Phuket Le Royal Meridien Phuket Yacht Club

Vanuatu Port Vila Le Meridien Port Vila Resort & Casino

*discounts by developers to friends is pretty common here in BKK...I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the developer of Regent Residence also gave discounts to buddies and friends...

*if you mean the Port Din-Daeng Expressway parallel to Soi Ruam Rudi, it is nicely buffered away from Athenee Residence by a deep cluster of lower rise condos and buildings....also the BTS walkway to Ploenchit Sky Train station is VERY close to front lobby of Athenee.

*I think the Nana/Patpong-like atmosphere immediately around Regent Residence (and the adjacent low rent tacky "Trendy" Condo which will be right next to the entrance of the residential portion of Regent on Soi 13) is much more disturbing than the expressway near Athenee.....that's kinda like having your hi-class condo building right on Temple Street near the street hookers in YauMaTei, Kowloon (instead of on the the quieter elegance of Wellington or Hollywood St in Central/Sheung Wan)....

*dont forget, when the British Embassy sells the front portion of its compound on Ploenchit Rd corner of Wireless (which they already announced) and the project just east of Wave Place revs up again, that segment of Ploenchit will be more active and vibrant (and will certainly be higher class--just because of the cost per square meter).

*the ground floor of the extended portion of Athenee residence will have smaller boutiques, shops and service centers....and a new office buidling will rise adjacent to the Athenee....

*when the developer of Regent Residence originally and very publically promoted the project he said that "W Hotel" of the Starwood chain would manage the hotel (he even had renderings and pictures of the building with the brand)....I was much more interested with that brand....it is super cool and modern and much more substantial than the current "Regent" brand....

Edited January 13, 2005 by trajan

[susah_sih]

*If you are focusing on brand names, I think you might have forgotten that Athenee Plaza Hotel is now a "Le Meridien Hotel", which, in my opinion is MUCH more substantial than the current Regent Brand...here's some Le Meridiens in Asia:

*when the developer of Regent Residence originally and very publically promoted the project he said that "W Hotel" of the Starwood chain would manage the hotel (he even had renderings and pictures of the building with the brand)....I was much more interested with that brand....it is super cool and modern and much more substantial than the current "Regent" brand....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe the Regent despite a change of ownership is still a better-managed brand than Le Meridien. Simply the French is against mass marketing for their luxury hotels. Many luxury French hotels such as The Ritz, Meurice, de Crillon prefer to run on their own and insist on using their names, rather than be part of chain hotels. Hence, French chain hotels like Le Meridien, Ibis, Accor, Novotel, Sofitel, etc. are purposely developed to be "below" French luxury hotels to cater toward middle income, "mass market" French consumers.

On the other hand, Americans do not have "truly luxury" hotels with long history like those in France and therefore they work harder at developing luxury brand such as the Ritz Carlton, Conrad, the Grand Hyatt, and the Regent.

Having previously worked in investment banking in Hong Kong, I spent probably half of my sleeping time in hotels rather than in my apartment, and I can say that my colleagues and I would easily choose to stay at the Grand Hyatt/Conrad/Regent/Ritz Carlton/Shangrilla over Le Meridien.

[susah_sih]

*I think the Nana/Patpong-like atmosphere immediately around Regent Residence (and the adjacent low rent tacky "Trendy" Condo which will be right next to the entrance of the residential portion of Regent on Soi 13) is much more disturbing than the expressway near Athenee.....that's kinda like having your hi-class condo building right on Temple Street near the street hookers in YauMaTei, Kowloon (instead of on the the quieter elegance of Wellington or Hollywood St in Central/Sheung Wan)....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think around sukhumvit 13 will change with the Regent Hotel.

And that Chuwit is destroying go-go bars on his land around sukhumvit 13, and planning to develop a public park across from the Regent Hotel.

[corkscrew]

*I think the Nana/Patpong-like atmosphere immediately around Regent Residence (and the adjacent low rent tacky "Trendy" Condo which will be right next to the entrance of the residential portion of Regent on Soi 13) is much more disturbing than the expressway near Athenee.....that's kinda like having your hi-class condo building right on Temple Street near the street hookers in YauMaTei, Kowloon (instead of on the the quieter elegance of Wellington or Hollywood St in Central/Sheung Wan)....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think around sukhumvit 13 will change with the Regent Hotel.

And that Chuwit is destroying go-go bars on his land around sukhumvit 13, and planning to develop a public park across from the Regent Hotel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Atahnee for sure!

Wireless Road access can not be equaled...and Roam Rudee as a back up is a jewel of a road (2 ways). The Athenee Residence is, hounds down, the best location in Bangkok. Sure, it is expensive....but years from now it will be the place that everyone wished they had. It is Location location and location...on Embassy Row. Condos like Trendy and The Regent will always suffer from their immediate Nana Entertainment neighbors and down market names. Spending the extra money now will pay off greatly in the end. Go take a look at the construction site now. Get off at Phloen Chit station...walk 50 meters...and see what is happening.

Sure, the insiders got a discount....but that is the Thai way.....what you can still buy is the best of Bangkok. You can not lose buying a 30 million condo on Wireless Road.

[trajan]

*If you are focusing on brand names, I think you might have forgotten that Athenee Plaza Hotel is now a "Le Meridien Hotel", which, in my opinion is MUCH more substantial than the current Regent Brand...here's some Le Meridiens in Asia:

*when the developer of Regent Residence originally and very publically promoted the project he said that "W Hotel" of the Starwood chain would manage the hotel (he even had renderings and pictures of the building with the brand)....I was much more interested with that brand....it is super cool and modern and much more substantial than the current "Regent" brand....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe the Regent despite a change of ownership is still a better-managed brand than Le Meridien. Simply the French is against mass marketing for their luxury hotels. Many luxury French hotels such as The Ritz, Meurice, de Crillon prefer to run on their own and insist on using their names, rather than be part of chain hotels. Hence, French chain hotels like Le Meridien, Ibis, Accor, Novotel, Sofitel, etc. are purposely developed to be "below" French luxury hotels to cater toward middle income, "mass market" French consumers.

On the other hand, Americans do not have "truly luxury" hotels with long history like those in France and therefore they work harder at developing luxury brand such as the Ritz Carlton, Conrad, the Grand Hyatt, and the Regent.

Having previously worked in investment banking in Hong Kong, I spent probably half of my sleeping time in hotels rather than in my apartment, and I can say that my colleagues and I would easily choose to stay at the Grand Hyatt/Conrad/Regent/Ritz Carlton/Shangrilla over Le Meridien.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im afraid you are wrong about Le Meridien....since you are an investment banker, I'll put down the details.....Le Meridien (despite its French-sounding name) hasnt been controlled by the French in quite awhile.

Yes, it was established in 1972 by Air France, BUT in 1994, Le Meridien was acquired by UK hotel giant, Forte. Forte was swallowed by Granada Group plc in 1996.

In 2000 Granada Group plc, and Compass Group plc merged. In 2001, the ownership of the Forte Hotel Group and its three brands (Le Meridien, Heritage Hotels and Posthouse Hotels) passed solely to Compass Group.

In 2001, Nomura International plc acquired Le Meridien Hotels from Compass Group plc for £1.9 billion and Le Meridien was merged with Principal Hotels (a unit of Nomura), which was acquired in 2001. In 2003, Lehman Brothers Holdings acquired the senior debt of Le Meridien.

Therefore, currently, Le Meridien is Japanese-owned (but based in London) with a global hotel group with a portfolio of more than 130 luxury and upscale hotels in 56 countries worldwide. Also, in 2000, Le Meridien signed a global strategic alliance with Japan's Nikko Hotels.

By the way--today--which Regent Hotel would you stay at over Le Meridien? Any of the grand total of 4 Regents in all of Asia (which includes one in Almaty. Kazakhstan)?

[trajan]

I think around sukhumvit 13 will change with the Regent Hotel.

And that Chuwit is destroying go-go bars on his land around sukhumvit 13, and planning to develop a public park across from the Regent Hotel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

gosh, for the sake of everyone in the city, I hope you are right about the area around the frontage of Sukhumvit 11/13 changing for the better....I also hope that Chuwit (after he gets a seat in Parliament next month) will actualy turn that vacant plot of land into a public park (it will be quite a huge personal financial sacrifice for him). Central Bangkok desparately needs more green spaces/lungs .

However, even if that immediate area in the Nana area improves, I still prefer the location between Soi Ruam Rudi and Wireless Road. Athenee will have access from both roads (for driving) as well as direct access to the BTS Ploenchit station (for walking).....

Edited January 13, 2005 by trajan

[Beer-diow, khao-neow, mai-an!]

Personally I opted for Thong-lo. Not quite in the same league, but very favoured with rich Thai and a nice place to live; I like furniture and design shops and H1/J-avenue are a stroll away.

[corkscrew]

*If you are focusing on brand names, I think you might have forgotten that Athenee Plaza Hotel is now a "Le Meridien Hotel", which, in my opinion is MUCH more substantial than the current Regent Brand...here's some Le Meridiens in Asia:

*when the developer of Regent Residence originally and very publically promoted the project he said that "W Hotel" of the Starwood chain would manage the hotel (he even had renderings and pictures of the building with the brand)....I was much more interested with that brand....it is super cool and modern and much more substantial than the current "Regent" brand....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe the Regent despite a change of ownership is still a better-managed brand than Le Meridien. Simply the French is against mass marketing for their luxury hotels. Many luxury French hotels such as The Ritz, Meurice, de Crillon prefer to run on their own and insist on using their names, rather than be part of chain hotels. Hence, French chain hotels like Le Meridien, Ibis, Accor, Novotel, Sofitel, etc. are purposely developed to be "below" French luxury hotels to cater toward middle income, "mass market" French consumers.

On the other hand, Americans do not have "truly luxury" hotels with long history like those in France and therefore they work harder at developing luxury brand such as the Ritz Carlton, Conrad, the Grand Hyatt, and the Regent.

Having previously worked in investment banking in Hong Kong, I spent probably half of my sleeping time in hotels rather than in my apartment, and I can say that my colleagues and I would easily choose to stay at the Grand Hyatt/Conrad/Regent/Ritz Carlton/Shangrilla over Le Meridien.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im afraid you are wrong about Le Meridien....since you are an investment banker, I'll put down the details.....Le Meridien (despite its French-sounding name) hasnt been controlled by the French in quite awhile.

Yes, it was established in 1972 by Air France, BUT in 1994, Le Meridien was acquired by UK hotel giant, Forte. Forte was swallowed by Granada Group plc in 1996.

In 2000 Granada Group plc, and Compass Group plc merged. In 2001, the ownership of the Forte Hotel Group and its three brands (Le Meridien, Heritage Hotels and Posthouse Hotels) passed solely to Compass Group.

In 2001, Nomura International plc acquired Le Meridien Hotels from Compass Group plc for £1.9 billion and Le Meridien was merged with Principal Hotels (a unit of Nomura), which was acquired in 2001. In 2003, Lehman Brothers Holdings acquired the senior debt of Le Meridien.

Therefore, currently, Le Meridien is Japanese-owned (but based in London) with a global hotel group with a portfolio of more than 130 luxury and upscale hotels in 56 countries worldwide. Also, in 2000, Le Meridien signed a global strategic alliance with Japan's Nikko Hotels.

By the way--today--which Regent Hotel would you stay at over Le Meridien? Any of the grand total of 4 Regents in all of Asia (which includes one in Almaty. Kazakhstan)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I put my money down: Athenee!

[trajan]

I put my money down: Athenee!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Congrats!! I think its a great project...the built-in decoration was included...did u choose the "Classic" F style package? I thought it looked great...(but the other "Modern" and "Contemporary" styles were great too )

[trajan]

I just wanted to post an update....previously on this thread there was discussion (especially by "susah") about preferences over management quality of the:

a. Athenee Residence (on Soi Ruum Rudee) being affiliated/associated with the adjacent Plaza Athenee Hotel (a Le Meridien managed hotel) and

b. Regent Residences (on Sukhumvit Soi 13) being affiliated/associated with adjacent Regent Hotel (to be opened in future).

It has just been announced in the press that the Le Meridien hotel chain will now be acquired by the Starwood hotel chain (which includes Sheratons, Westins, St. Regis', Luxury Collection Hotels, W Hotels etc.)...so I believe the Athenee would be clearly preferable over the Regent if you are talking about management quality/depth of the associated hotels.... its also interesting to note that Regent has a grand total of 8 hotels worldwide, while Starwood has 100s of luxury hotels worldwide (especially after the Le Meridien acquisition)

(No, Im note affiliated with any hotel chain )