Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[tropo]

My wife just had a phone call from a friend who have satelite TV and she said that Channel 5 told that all stranded tourist will get 2000 baht a day from the government, can somebody confirm this?

From the website of the Tourism Authority of Thaitland (TAT):

On the basis of assistance, for tourists and travellers who cannot travel to their destination as of 25 November, 2008, till the airport reopens, TAT and the Ministry of Tourism and Sports have provided accommodation and meals, as well as facilitated tourists as much as possible until they are able to return to their destination.

Conditions of Accommodation

1. Tourists cannot reimburse the accommodation and meals for cash.

2.Tourists can stay in the accommodation under the condition that their costs do not exceed 2,000 Baht per day. For any excess, tourists must be responsible and pay themselves.

3. Tourists can only change the place of accommodation that has been arranged by THA and ATTA.

Source: www.tatnews.org/tat_release/detail.asp?id=4071

--

Maestro

In 2007 the average tourist spent Baht 4,120 per day/per head themselves.....the TAT gives them Baht 2,000;

I wonder how much of that Baht 2,000 is for hotel accommodation and how much is allowed to spend on meals -in those same hotels I assume-.

May I assume also that the TAT negotiated the room prices ?..and if so: how much for a room (split by two) ?

Any -stranded- passengers out there who know ?

LaoPo

Obviously the average of 4,120 per day includes shopping and other entertainment.

The 2000 baht per day is generous enough to cover a decent place to stay and plenty of food. It's more than many spend per day anyway. You can easily find a nice room and have a buffet breakfast and buffet dinner for a total of less than 1,200 per day.

What do you expect the TAT do? Subsidize shopping for stranded tourists. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Do you expect the TAT to subsidize shopping for stranded tourists.

[dtarasin]

If the PAD does get their way, Somchai resigns, and the PAD supporters get the government they want, what's gonna stop the redshirts from closing down airports and taking over government house to bring Somchai and the PPP back?

I wonder though, how many anti-yellows on TV would become anti-reds if that were to happen and they were "inconvenienced" again ?

I would be, for one. There's no excuse to behave like this from either side.

[Jai Dee]

Some off-topic and flame posts have been deleted from this thread.

And to all you Rambo wannabes... please desist from advocating violence.

[tropo]

5th of DEC they`ll leave right???.....for majesty`s birthday??

No reason to assume so. It depends on events between now and then.

I was curious about this too. A lot of Thais I talk to seem to assume so.

[Tonycheston]

I think the TAT are being very generous, I could cope on 2,000 Bht a day no problem. Of course that is just living, as sleeping and food goes, not entertainment. The big problem I see is how to get the money? I am not sure tat I understand correctly.

If I have an accommodation under 2,000 Bht a day I can stay there? How do I get the money to pay for food?

Anyone who is using this offer from TAT or anyone with inside information, please let me know.

I spent most of yesterday trying to call TAT but the lines were always busy

[madi]

5th of DEC they`ll leave right???.....for majesty`s birthday??

No reason to assume so. It depends on events between now and then.

I was curious about this too. A lot of Thais I talk to seem to assume so.

The good news for you Yanks is that you have a new president that most like and the rest of the world is still filled with chaos.

WOW

You hold an election and the winner takes office and no one tries to over-throw the government?

Amazing.

The English of course got this idea going first before the Yanks. A good idea English.

Most of the world is still not quite up to speed on the idea of law and order and fair elections.

If this thing in Thailand turns violent, hardly any of the fa-rang will still be here after. They can and will run home or to another place. It is the Thais that are stuck in the mess.

Too bad for them.

[dtarasin]

Psychology has a great explanation for this current crisis. It's a term called Groupthink. This part of the wikipedia article is particularly enllightening:

Symptoms of groupthink

In order to make groupthink testable, Irving Janis devised eight symptoms that are indicative of groupthink (1977).

1. Illusions of invulnerability creating excessive optimism and encouraging risk taking.

2. Rationalising warnings that might challenge the group's assumptions.

3. Unquestioned belief in the morality of the group, causing members to ignore the consequences of their actions.

4. Stereotyping those who are opposed to the group as weak, evil, disfigured, impotent, or stupid.

5. Direct pressure to conform placed on any member who questions the group, couched in terms of "disloyalty".

6. Self censorship of ideas that deviate from the apparent group consensus.

7. Illusions of unanimity among group members, silence is viewed as agreement.

8. Mindguards — self-appointed members who shield the group from dissenting information.

Groupthink, resulting from the symptoms listed above, results in defective desision making. That is, consensus driven decisions are the result of the following practices of groupthinking:

1. Incomplete survey of alternatives

2. Incomplete survey of objectives

3. Failure to examine risks of prefered choice

4. Failure to reevaluate previously rejected alternatives

5. Poor information search

6. Selection bias in collecting information

7. Failure to work out contigency plans.

[MsFigure]

I'm starting to mellow about all this now. Ive realized there is little point in working yourself up into a frenzy. It seems the government will be finished this week, by the court, I think everyone is just waiting on this decision now. It seems somchai will be gone within a couple of days. Either that or perhaps it will be solved on the 4th with the speech.

I think once it all is sorted things at the airport will return to normal within a couple of days, albeit with a lot less foreigners coming through the doors.

I've been mellow about this from the start, even though my husband couldn't fly back in on Saturday from Spain. Once he got to Singapore he just took a flight to Jakarta (1 hour later) where he had to fly to today anyway for meetings this week. Hopefully he can get back at the end of the week because our 5 year old daughter is fed up with the "trouble makers" at the airport, and REALLY wants her daddy, and it would be nice to spend my birthday and wedding anniversary on the 6th, even though we won't be holding our breath . We've been here long enough to realise it's another cause of TIT and not worth getting too upset about. Even the fact that we may have to postpone our holiday to Perth (supposed to leave on the 15th for christmas) doesn't even bother me too much.

[Journalist]

If the PAD does get their way, Somchai resigns, and the PAD supporters get the government they want, what's gonna stop the redshirts from closing down airports and taking over government house to bring Somchai and the PPP back?

I don't think the reds have the same kind of "behind the scenes" support that PAD does. If they were to try the same thing, I think who ever is in authority at the time would be quick to crack down on them.

They would use the current crisis as an example and note that they couldn't let events like this to keep happening. The main difference is that next time the police and/or army would be more likely to act when ordered to do so.

Yes this could well happen.

But the next step (after army tanks have squashed red shirts and Thailand has its own Tiananmen), could be the downfall of the system as we know it.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Journalist

[LaoPo]

Wolfie, Jupiter, CM Sally et al... in the south ie: Samui, Phang Nga, Phuket, Phi Phi, Krabi, Koh Yao, there are more tourists than ever. The type of tourist this current situation will scare off are investors and people with mega budgets who can afford to change destination at a moment's notice. I reiterate, back packers, package holidayers and se* tourists will not let this current scenario put them off aftaer the few weeks of airport troubles go away

Your post is very misleading as you are completely wrong and incorrectly informing members here.

I wonder who told you so because the Office of Tourism Devlopment didn't supply numbers for the 3rd quarter yet and apart from that they do not supply separate numbers for Samui, Phang Nga, Phi Phi, Krabi and Koh Yao.

The only numbers available are for Phuket (separate Province):

Guest Arrivals at Accommodation Establishments in Phuket:

* Period: April-June 2008 TOTAL = -16,29% versus 2007

Thai: -22,97%

Foreigners: -12,74%

* only period available.

From: http://www.tourism.go.th/index.php?option=...0&Itemid=25

Apart from that: since October tourism is declining dramatic !

Grand Total for October, inbound tourists via Suvarnabhumi is -11,12%, and that number is the average.

Tourism from East Asia is even more dramatic with a -24,15% of which:

China -43%

Hong Kong -34%

Japan -20%

S Korea -33%

Taiwan -22%

You call that "there are more tourists than ever" ?

The drama is just starting to unfold with a high in 2009.

LaoPo

[anothertorres]

If this thing in Thailand turns violent, hardly any of the fa-rang will still be here after. They can and will run home or to another place. It is the Thais that are stuck in the mess.

i'm not Thai, nor married to a Thai woman. and i don't live here for the tits and ass. i won't "run home" or "to another place". people, we really need to stop talking out of our asses!

[Thailand]

I think a PAD role of honor is order if and when this whole debacle is over.

Their names, id, addresses should be pinned up for all to see so that the Thai populace can thank them personally for their dramatic struggle on behalf of all the Thai people.

[henryalleman]

I think the government is being held back by lets say "higher authorities"

I know, we probably all know. Sad, isn't it?

Most likely on the premise that bloodshed is to be avoided. Yes, I know some will see darker motives, but I genuinely believe there is a desire to avoid the loss of life. So, not necessarily sad but an indication that maybe just maybe some higher authorities still value human life?

As a sidebar I note all the comments on the "elite" vs the north etc. I have a feeling that the northerners are a lot tougher. Something about an upbringing without servants, self sufficiency, fancy digs with a/c etc. that tells me that they can handle the hardship of going without electricity, clean clothes and whatnot. If push comes to shove, and trouble does arise with power outages, water services cut, it won't be the northerners that still use squat toilets but the folks living in the nice houses and luxury condos that will suffer when their dwellings become ovens, toilets can't be flushed and domestic staff don't show up for work. Think about past peasant uprisings in Europe: The peasants could carry on since whatever happened didn't really take away from their subsistence living conditions as much as it did from those that had more "sophisticated" living conditions. I think some of the "elites" are beginning to have second thougths about their support for PAD. Maybe better to keep 3/4 of the loaf than to lose it all.

they not only like to avoid a bloodshed, but can you Imagen what destructions to the infrastructure of Suva will be made when armed forces brutally attack. it will cost month and millions if not Billions to repair the damage. Further more the whole world will look with horror to the events, and the reputation of Thailand will be ruined for decades.

When the current problem will be solved peacefully, in 6 months everything will be forgotten. And i hope the next elections Thai people will vote for a person like Chuan Leekpai.

[britmaveric]

Thailand's reputation is already shot for decades.

[madi]

If this thing in Thailand turns violent, hardly any of the fa-rang will still be here after. They can and will run home or to another place. It is the Thais that are stuck in the mess.

i'm not Thai, nor married to a Thai woman. and i don't live here for the tits and ass. i won't "run home" or "to another place". people, we really need to stop talking out of our asses!

Name calling?

HAAA HAAA

So you are here for the big money you make here?

HAAAA HAAAAA

Learn to read. I said, "Hardly any". That is not me saying no fa-rang is it.

What job do you do here where you make more money then you would make in your home nation?

You love the clean air here?

maybe it is the smooth flow of traffic you enjoy.

The safety of having to have barbed wire fences over your home might be what you love here.

Yeah sure--

HAAAA HAAAA

[kurce]

If the PAD does get their way, Somchai resigns, and the PAD supporters get the government they want, what's gonna stop the redshirts from closing down airports and taking over government house to bring Somchai and the PPP back?

I don't think the reds have the same kind of "behind the scenes" support that PAD does. If they were to try the same thing, I think who ever is in authority at the time would be quick to crack down on them.

They would use the current crisis as an example and note that they couldn't let events like this to keep happening. The main difference is that next time the police and/or army would be more likely to act when ordered to do so.

I wonder though, how many anti-yellows on TV would become anti-reds if that were to happen and they were "inconvenienced" again ?

And if the yellows were to try the same thing again, would the same crackdown apply?

The current crisis is just that CURRENT, so why not make a note NOW and not let this event continue to happen?

I'm neither anti-yellow or anti-red, I'm anti-airport closure and anti-method of protesting, as I assume many probably are. Therefore any views would seem to be anti-yellow given they are the ones currently occupying the airport. If the reds were occupying the airport then my views would be felt otherwise directed.

Cheers.

[henryalleman]

what was the debt rate of Isan people before Thaksin came to power and what is their debt after all the handouts and so called free loans Thaksin gave to them.

Sod off Henry. You trying to sell me that PAD are concerned for the financial education of the 'great unwashed'?

Pull the other one, it's got bells on!

You should better answer the question,or is this too difficult.

BTW its me, a simple minded farang who asked the question.

[Svetlana]

Guys, what do you think, it will be over tomorrow or not? We've already got so many cancellations... I wish all the best to the Thai people but why to cut the branch they actually sit on?...

[GlenOrd]

I am trying to imagine what it is going to look like if police try to move it, with tear gas.

1. PAD runs for cover inside the terminal building

2. Police follow, and shoot a few gas in to force them out

3. PAD have no choice by more into the air-side

4. Amid the chaos, a few hard core guards grab the duty free, light it, and throw it at the police who is now in the departure hall.

5. Swampy burn to ashes.

6. Worst, some "third party" might take this opportunity to touch an aircraft. A few bottles of lighted whiskey thrown into the cabin of a parked 747 will just do the trick.

I believe the police have figured that this could be one of the outcome. Hence it is unlikely that they (police) will move in by force. I hope not anyway. Let there be peace.

At least foreigners who is sick of this can fly out from U-Tapao, Chiang Mai, Phuket, Krabi, Samui. The poor Thai people are really stuck in this deep SHlT for a while.

[LaoPo]

Obviously the average of 4,120 per day includes shopping and other entertainment.

The 2000 baht per day is generous enough to cover a decent place to stay and plenty of food. It's more than many spend per day anyway. You can easily find a nice room and have a buffet breakfast and buffet dinner for a total of less than 1,200 per day.

What do you expect the TAT do? Subsidize shopping for stranded tourists. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Do you expect the TAT to subsidize shopping for stranded tourists.

The 2007 average expenditure/day for accommodation is Baht 1,145,32/day/head and Food & Beverage Baht 731,10. TOTAL= Baht 1,876.

The rest of the average spending of Baht 4,120/day/head is for shopping, entertainment, sightseeing, local transport and miscellaneous.

So, the Baht 2,000 looks generous (with an extra from TAT of Baht 124/day.....WOW !) but 99% of the tourists would rather be home instead of spending those days EXTRA without any money in their pockets.

And, as you know, one will ALWAYS spend more than willing, if one has to stay -forced-.

If one has to work you don't spend the money one is doing now, hanging around in your holiday country.

Also, the TAT/Government should treat and pamper the stranded guests because they are SO p_ssed off by the whole PAD blockade

LaoPo

[britmaveric]

BIB invade from the secure side would be obvious method and push them out that way - mind you 4 floors to clear, so it won't be easy. However need to do what you have to do to enforce the law.

[henryalleman]

I think they should open up the bank accounts of the PAD leaders and toss all the money out the window from the BTS- starting from the On Nut station.

They can't do this moment they are to busy to check out the billions bank accounts of Thaksin

[old wanderer]

OK--a Supreme court put into office by an illegal-unelected Coup, will throw out an elected government? I know ,most of you here are unaware of how a democracy works but NO COURT can remove a leader in a real democracy. Only the congress in America can do that and only the Parliament can do it in most others.

Who elected the court?

You should really get your facts straight before you post such falsehoods....it truly shows ignorance on your part about Thailand

The Court is put in place by only one man.....They answer to that same man......

Each county has an absolute right to structure their Constitution as they see fit.

And I in particular are not unaware of how a democracies works....

Thailand is a Constitutional Monarch.....not a USA style Democracy....

[Jai Dee]

Air Force Chief Calls for House Dissolution

Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshal Ittaporn Supawong calls for the government not to remain in power any longer and to dissolve the House of Representatives so power can be returned to the people. He questions Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, asking why he is worried about a new round of general elections when he has the majority votes in his hand.

He urges everyone to accept the judicial process and reiterates the Air Force will side with justice. He adds he does not fear dismissal from his post.

Source: TOC - 01 December 2008

[henryalleman]

Mind that the door don't bang you on the arse on the way out Nathan.

How can it bang me? if i havent arrived yet. You muppet

Upset are we Nathan?

Yes, yo be honest i am.

Whilst i accept that Thai people are well and truly 'fed up' with the 'uber-corruption' etc, it is nonetheless an act of TERRORISM to disrupt the function of a country's main international airport.

This current action is nothing but a contradictory act of misplaced idiocy. Because of this protest:

Vital medical supplies aren't being delivered and lives ARE being lost.

Businesses WILL move abroad in favour of more a stable environment.

Tourists WILL cancel holidays and not come in future. today on Flemish National television they show tourists still leaving for their holiday in Thailand by Thomas Cook travel agency.The spokesman of Thomas Cook said there where no problems except in BKK. They just make some changes in their tour destinations in Thailand. In the past there where attack on tourists in Egypt, Turkey, Israel and Bali. I EMPHAZISE ATTACK SON TOURISTS, THIS IS NOT THE CASE IN THAILAND.

And they are still popular destinations. Tourists have a very short memory

Thai farmers WILL lose export crops and future export orders.

Thailand WILL lose face.

Thailand WILL lose money. (lots)

I feel most sorry for my Thai friends who WILL\ARE losing money and their businesses because of this crminal activity by the PAD.

Yes, i may sound a bit 'stiff-uper-lip' but that's because i am an Englishman and that's the way we are, we don't take b*llsh*t lighty. Tell you what, come and try this in Heathrow and see how long you last. I give you about 6h at best.

Yours respectfully (and not wishing to fall out with anyone, just make my point)

Nathan S\

[PeaceBlondie]

When will the airport be open? We do not know, cannot know. I am advising a friend with a ticket for Friday that he may not get out of Thailand for many more days. Even if the court rules by late Wednesday, Somchai and his master will not go quietly in the night. Nor will PAD, I suspect. If you have tickets for planes in or out of BKK for Dec. 15 or later, different story. But for this coming Friday, enjoy the birthday party, I guess.

[RenzoInOz]

Chaos at U-Tapao?

Caution: Channel 9 is renowned for exaggerated news coverage, but it still sounds like bedlam at rayong...

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=676438

[henryalleman]

PM stays away from Bangkok

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat yesterday visited a Buddhist holy site in Nakhon Phanom while red-shirted crowds threatened to form vigilante posses to punish yellow-shirted government opponents.

Somchai went to pray before Buddha's relic at Phra That Phanom Temple, People Power Party MP Paijit Srivorakan said.

He would spend the night in Udon Thani where a pro-government rally was held before returning today to his temporary office in Chiang Mai, he said.

Northeastern constituents as well as their MPs would gather to give moral support to the prime minister, he said.

A Special Branch Police source said Somchai had departed Chiang Mai after his security team received intelligence reports that some military groups wanted to take him hostage.

A military officer ranked as lieutenant general would lead 12 squads including 72 patrol soldiers to capture Somchai, the source said.

Somchai left his residence for a safe house in Chiang Mai before travelling to the northeastern province.

In Chiang Mai, several pickup trucks packed with government followers drove to crowded public places where they roused the people to take the law into their own hands and attack the yellow-shirted protesters and their sympathisers.

In the message, people were encouraged to find and shut down businesses and shops run by or linked to the protesters led by the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy.

On Friday night, some red-shirted men forced a noodle soup vendor in Nong Hoy market to close down for watching anti-government programmes aired by the ASTV satellite station.

Between Friday and yesterday, red-shirted crowds distributed flyers in English to foreign visitors criticising the hijacking of two major airports at Don Mueang and Suvarnabhumi.

In Bangkok, Democrat Party spokesman Buranat Samutarak warned that the chances for a negotiated settlement were fast disappearing as time dragged on.

The country is heading for unprecedented violence and bloodshed, he said.

Interior Minister Kowit Watana, who is in charge of crowd control, should quickly enter into peace talks with the PAD before it was too late, he said.

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra should be blamed for resuming his political activities which have in turn inflamed the situation, he said.

The political stand-off might turn into mayhem following yesterday's rally by the red-shirted crowds at Sanam Luang, he said.

In Udon Thani, about 10,000 red-shirted villagers rallied to back the government and safeguard Somchai during his overnight stay, organiser Kwanchai Praipana said.

Each northeastern electorate would send about 20,000 people to rally in Bangkok tomorrow against the expected dissolution of the ruling party, he said.

The government should allow red-shirted crowds to disperse the yellow-shirted protesters if police failed to do their jobs, he said.

Two MPs from Lop Buri, Suchart Lainamngern and Amnuay Klangpha, predicted that more than 100,000 red-shirted people would turn out to rally by tomorrow in order to counter the PAD-led protests.

The PAD has been mobilising protesters from the 14 southern provinces to reinforce the anti-government camps at the three rally sites - Government House, Don Mueang and Suvarnabhumi.

PAD's Nakhon Si Thammarat chapter leader Osoth Suwansawaet said each local chapter was responsible for dispatching 200-300 protesters daily to the three rally sites.

Osoth said PAD-led protesters were fully braced for crowd dispersal measures and would fight if red-shirted mobs descended on them.

He threatened to seize every provincial hall and block inter-provincial roads in the South if police cracked down on protesters at the two airports.

Nakhon Si Thammarat governor Panu Uthairat and his Songkhla counterpart Sonthi Techanan said they had taken precautionary measures to avert any attempts to blockade provincial halls.

Government spokesman Natthawut Saikua said it was evident from news clips that PAD-led protesters had tried to use weapons on vulnerable police.

"Armed protesters should immediately stop violent attacks against the unarmed authorities," he said.

The prime minister and his government have remained fully functioning although the situation has to be reassessed on a daily basis, he said.

Tomorrow's Cabinet meeting is expected to proceed but the venue has yet to be picked, he said.

The government-sponsored merit-making ceremony is on track for tomorrow although it is unclear whether Prime Minister Somchai will leave Chiang Mai to personally preside over the event, he said.

Somchai also remains uncertain whether he can attend ceremonies for His Majesty the King's birthday.

The government refuses to step down either by resigning or dissolving the House because this would amount to handing victory to the PAD, he added.

- The Nation / 2008-12-01

Its seems that the red shirts more and more act like the SA in pre war germany when they close jewish shops and put guards in front to prohibit people will go in the shop.

[sriracha john]

If the PAD does get their way, Somchai resigns, and the PAD supporters get the government they want, what's gonna stop the redshirts from closing down airports and taking over government house to bring Somchai and the PPP back?

I don't think the reds have the same kind of "behind the scenes" support that PAD does. If they were to try the same thing, I think who ever is in authority at the time would be quick to crack down on them.

They would use the current crisis as an example and note that they couldn't let events like this to keep happening. The main difference is that next time the police and/or army would be more likely to act when ordered to do so.

I wonder though, how many anti-yellows on TV would become anti-reds if that were to happen and they were "inconvenienced" again ?

It'd be appropriate for one of them to give the numbers to your question...

... 99% of the forum users

Edited December 1, 2008 by sriracha john

[henryalleman]

It might be time for the international community to threaten Thailand with a trade embargo.

Not enough they should ask Bush to send the marines in to rescue the oppressed and kidnapped US civilians and protect US businesses.

It will have to effect to PAD.

good point, at this time i see boycott affecting no party, just the masses and countries economy.