Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[rainman]

Pol Gen Prateep said this morning (December 1) police have adopted a peaceful means to monitor PAD’s protests.

'Monitor' ?!!!!! Yet another monkey.

[Siripon]

What's the big deal about what you call the PAD? They are ruining the country...

It's complete madness. If it was the uneducated rural masses who was driving the country towards anarchy at least it would make some sense. But it's the urban elite...

This is what the urban eliet believe. It might help understand the things they do:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/10...on_30087963.php

PAD saves the nation from supernatural attack

ON OCTOBER 29, Sondhi Limthongkul gave a speech from the People's Alliance for Democracy stage, broadcast over ASTV, about a new front in his fight to "save the nation". He said:

"For many years in the past, the powers of many sacred things including the spirit of the City Pillar, the Equestrian Statue of King Rama V, Phra Sayam Thewathirat, and the Emerald Buddha, have been suppressed by evil people using magic. 'Suppress' does not mean destroy, because sacred objects cannot be destroyed, as they have too much power. But 'suppress' means not allowing them to emit their power, by encircling them. This is true. So we have just finished rectifying this in the last two to three weeks. Like at the statue of the Emerald Buddha.

"Behind it there is a stone. Evil-minded people had allied with some in the Royal Household Bureau to allow a Khmer adept to go behind the Emerald Buddha and take the stone away, because that stone is the important thing for emitting power."

A few weeks ago, anti-government agitator Sondhi Limthongkul, whose People's Alliance for Democracy has occupied key official buildings for four months in an effort to topple a government he considers illegitimate, accused his opponents of employing wizardry to channel the statue's protective forces their way. And to reverse that alleged sorcery, he deployed his own mystics to encircle the statue with used sanitary napkins (collected from the PAD's rank-and-file) to form a shield of menstrual blood.

Newsweek also wrote a article on this topic:

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/ov/archive/...r-struggle.aspx

The leaders of PAD certainly seem to have some extreme beliefs. The question is what they should be called...not the common people participating in the demonstrations. They are just being used as pawns in a much bigger game...

A terrorist must surely aim to cause terror in the population and the PAD certainly don't do that. Many Thais in Bangkok are weary of the conflict and disagree with their recent actions but understand their suspicions of the nominee government.

That's why most Bangkokians want a peaceful solution even if it does cause a large loss to the economy.

It's condescending of foreigners to call the supporters pawns, as seen from the pictures on TV many are middle aged ladies, families who saw through Thaksin a long time ago. They are not the elite, though the PAD are backed by some rich patrons, like the UDD with Thaksin.

Don't think too much about the sanitary towels or Sonthi's 'representational new politics', 99% of the PAD supporters are there to prevent the Shinawat dynasty from seizing Thailand, not to install an undemocratic order, that will never happen.

[fudoshinanzan]

LOL .. yes hyperbole ... detained and released would be far more accurate wouldn't it? Taking hostages is simply hyperbole just like tossing around the word terrorism (but hey ... Bush was able to dupe so many using exactly that same tactic!) What were the demands they made for the hostage's release?

was the officer released? Does it compare to having a bomb thrown at you?

'Hostage' doesn't work. 'Detained' would be more apt if it were performed by the police, having authority to do so, but clearly doesn't work here. With no legal power to do so, civilians doing this is termed kidnapping.

Why always the comparisons? If those in red shirts went out tonight and slaughtered a hundred yellow-clad children it would have no bearing on whether or not it's kidnapping to push a policeman in the back of a car against his will and drive away. Are you so unable to separate things here and look at each in turn when and where it's relevant?

[rainman]

240,000 tourists stranded in Thailand: tourism minister

Tourism Minister Weerasak Kowsurat said the number of stranded tourists have risen to 240,000.

Weerasak is due to attend a foreign press conference at Bitec Bangna, the second city terminal which is open today for international flight check-in. He said he would do everything to send news to the world that Thailand is doing it best to send stranded travellers home.

The minister added that he would ask for the special financial package worth Bt10 billion to help small and medium-sized operators in the tourism and related industries which have been hard hit by the shutdown of Bangkok airports.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30089883

[MyphuketLife]

LOL .. yes hyperbole ... detained and released would be far more accurate wouldn't it? Taking hostages is simply hyperbole just like tossing around the word terrorism (but hey ... Bush was able to dupe so many using exactly that same tactic!) What were the demands they made for the hostage's release?

was the officer released? Does it compare to having a bomb thrown at you?

let me get through your points:

detained and released would be far more accurate wouldn't it?

No they took a police man by force against his will into the protest site (that is taking a hostage)

Taking hostages is simply hyperbole just like tossing around the word terrorism

they took a man against his will, and transported him he was(maybe still is?) a hostage.

was the officer released?

Don't know... It has not been reported that he has been so one could assume he is still a hostage?

Does it compare to having a bomb thrown at you?

No it does not. But because some one throws bombs at the PAD crowd its make it okay for the PAD to take police hostage?

as they say "Two wrongs don't make it right".

You can't have it both ways, you can't say they are peacefull, then when some one proves they are not, you can;t say "well that doesn't count because....{insert you lame excuse here}"

Edited December 1, 2008 by MyphuketLife

[jdinasia]

LOL ... no dear ... as pointed out by someone else it COULD be kidnapping or custodial interference .. it is not hostage taking (That is just Hyperbole)

Don't worry ... we all understand that you are grasping at straws though "terrorism,hostage taking" what will you use next?

and yes the group are protesters ... and yes they are peaceful though obviously some things have occurred that are not peaceful

[sezze]

LOL .. yes hyperbole ... detained and released would be far more accurate wouldn't it? Taking hostages is simply hyperbole just like tossing around the word terrorism (but hey ... Bush was able to dupe so many using exactly that same tactic!) What were the demands they made for the hostage's release?

was the officer released? Does it compare to having a bomb thrown at you?

It does ...

in a terrorist organisation not a terrorist organisation if they blow up a car and warning the people before it is going to happen so nobody can get hurt . You do not need to kill people to be a terrorist . If you cause a country to be in shock or fear due to a action which goes in to all believes and all laws ... it is terrorism . That is why there is a law . If you do not obey the law you are a criminal ... can be big can be small ... but you do a criminal act . If the acts that you do go further and you put a country /population in serious trouble and are unwilling to listing from demands from as well politics/police/ international officials ( airport autorities / ambassy etc ) .... etc you are a terrorist . the people inside the building are indeed having a party ... i think that the people in the Al Quada trainingcamps are also having parties once a while ... Still outside they are guarded by armed forces which in fact are going against all official orders .

Can you tell me the difference ??

[newtronbom]

As jdinasia has shown in his post, world media are referring to the PAD as 'protesters'. This is understandable. They need a term, after all. As I've said previously, the majority are peaceful protesters so that term fits best in the circumstances.

BUT, just as I'd take issue with labeling the whole group 'terrorists', I can't agree with posters here who try to label the whole group as peaceful protesters, sitting-in at the airport. You can't have it both ways.

Hopefully I've made it pretty clear why I've been critical, that it's specifically about the contradiction rather than taking sides.

I am not prepared to take sides either. However. 1/. This protest has gone on far too long and has ruined the country, along with the lives of many Thais' and westerners as well. 2/. The "PAD" leadership have weeks to sort out "the violent " element you refer to. It is not a new development. They have had plenty of time to ask the really bad trouble makers to leave their ranks, if that was what they really wished. Everyone here must see that. If this was really about a peaceful protest against the present government, the trouble makers in my opinion, would have been sent off long ago. That therefore leaves me in no doubt as to what kind of people they are.

[Koo82]

So now the circus is on at one spot only: Swamppy. How do you think it will end?

[fudoshinanzan]

LOL ... no dear ... as pointed out by someone else it COULD be kidnapping or custodial interference .. it is not hostage taking (That is just Hyperbole)

Don't worry ... we all understand that you are grasping at straws though "terrorism,hostage taking" what will you use next?

and yes the group are protesters ... and yes they are peaceful though obviously some things have occurred that are not peaceful

You just can't bring yourself to say it, can you?

'The group are protesters' is irrefutably false. Some PAD are, some aren't. You implicitly acknowledge the violence on behalf of members of the PAD, though shy away from directly saying so through evasive grammar. What a merry dance! The 'terrorism' and 'hostage' issue is turning into a dispute about semantics. All I'm saying is that it's a known FACT to all that PAD member have been responsible for violent actions this past week, therefore the group as a whole can't be term as 'just peaceful protesters'. How could anybody possibly deny this given that we've all seen the myriad of media reports?

[TheJoker]

Call Mr. George.W.Bush, he loves the word terrorism!!

[MyphuketLife]

LOL ... no dear ... as pointed out by someone else it COULD be kidnapping or custodial interference .. it is not hostage taking (That is just Hyperbole)

Don't worry ... we all understand that you are grasping at straws though "terrorism,hostage taking" what will you use next?

and yes the group are protesters ... and yes they are peaceful though obviously some things have occurred that are not peaceful

If they are "peaceful" than nothing "non peaceful" would have occurred... You are the one grasping... fine kidnapping you win I will say kidnapping, BUT HOW does that make it any less significant, how does that change the fact they took a police officer against his will?

Now please explain how Kidnapping is ok for the "peaceful" protestors?

[Wiresok]

Hey Namsueng...

"Wiresock, Nathan, take a chill pill"

You cannot see what is in front of your own eyes so wouldn't expect you to see the wood from the trees.

Anyway now you have been outed as a PAD fanatic, with an agenda, you wont need to fear a PAD in -flight plane hijack , because as a PAD fanatic you will be in the know.

Not so for the rest of us.

Hijacking aircraft is the next step up for the PAD.

Look back at the history of other terrorist organisations.

Big oak trees grow from little acorns.

The international community is aleady asking the question "do I AND MY FAMILY want to risk being hijacked by the PAD on a flight in or out of Bangkok??"

[rainman]

Call Mr. George.W.Bush, he loves the word terrorism!!

Someone please call the US Embassy and give them an anonymous tip that bin Laden is hiding among the PAD protesters at the airport. That should resolve the problem fairly quickly.

[jdinasia]

LOL ... no dear ... as pointed out by someone else it COULD be kidnapping or custodial interference .. it is not hostage taking (That is just Hyperbole)

Don't worry ... we all understand that you are grasping at straws though "terrorism,hostage taking" what will you use next?

and yes the group are protesters ... and yes they are peaceful though obviously some things have occurred that are not peaceful

You just can't bring yourself to say it, can you?

'The group are protesters' is irrefutably false. Some PAD are, some aren't. You implicitly acknowledge the violence on behalf of members of the PAD, though shy away from directly saying so through evasive grammar. What a merry dance! The 'terrorism' and 'hostage' issue is turning into a dispute about semantics. All I'm saying is that it's a known FACT to all that PAD member have been responsible for violent actions this past week, therefore the group as a whole can't be term as 'just peaceful protesters'. How could anybody possibly deny this given that we've all seen the myriad of media reports?

LOL

you can read all over that people have spoken out against violence. The PAD is a group of protesters ... As for violent actions this week, it sucks that some PAD guards shot at people when they were attacked. It doesn't suck that they made some police run away. It doesn't suck that someone was detained and released. It would suck if a person were held hostage. It sucks that so many banned members are creating new names. It doesn't suck when they get banned again

[MyphuketLife]

LOL ... no dear ... as pointed out by someone else it COULD be kidnapping or custodial interference .. it is not hostage taking (That is just Hyperbole)

Don't worry ... we all understand that you are grasping at straws though "terrorism,hostage taking" what will you use next?

and yes the group are protesters ... and yes they are peaceful though obviously some things have occurred that are not peaceful

You just can't bring yourself to say it, can you?

'The group are protesters' is irrefutably false. Some PAD are, some aren't. You implicitly acknowledge the violence on behalf of members of the PAD, though shy away from directly saying so through evasive grammar. What a merry dance! The 'terrorism' and 'hostage' issue is turning into a dispute about semantics. All I'm saying is that it's a known FACT to all that PAD member have been responsible for violent actions this past week, therefore the group as a whole can't be term as 'just peaceful protesters'. How could anybody possibly deny this given that we've all seen the myriad of media reports?

Thank you for articulating what I failed to... He won't reply to this though, I image he will say it was justified violence...

[Artisi]

Call Mr. George.W.Bush, he loves the word terrorism!!

Why in god's name would you call on another <deleted> for any comment.

[MyphuketLife]

LOL

you can read all over that people have spoken out against violence. The PAD is a group of protesters ... As for violent actions this week, it sucks that some PAD guards shot at people when they were attacked. It doesn't suck that they made some police run away. It doesn't suck that someone was detained and released. It would suck if a person were held hostage. It sucks that so many banned members are creating new names. It doesn't suck when they get banned again

Really because the video I saw of PAD shooting does not show any one shooting at them, attacking them... nope just PAD shooting...

[jdinasia]

LOL ... no dear ... as pointed out by someone else it COULD be kidnapping or custodial interference .. it is not hostage taking (That is just Hyperbole)

Don't worry ... we all understand that you are grasping at straws though "terrorism,hostage taking" what will you use next?

and yes the group are protesters ... and yes they are peaceful though obviously some things have occurred that are not peaceful

If they are "peaceful" than nothing "non peaceful" would have occurred... You are the one grasping... fine kidnapping you win I will say kidnapping, BUT HOW does that make it any less significant, how does that change the fact they took a police officer against his will?

Now please explain how Kidnapping is ok for the "peaceful" protestors?

LOL I didn't see any kidnapping, I saw someone detained and released but at least you are stepping down a level on the hyperbole. How daft do you have to be to not understand that "shit happens" ? if the bosses could be everywhere at once it would still happen.

[fudoshinanzan]

LOL ... no dear ... as pointed out by someone else it COULD be kidnapping or custodial interference .. it is not hostage taking (That is just Hyperbole)

Don't worry ... we all understand that you are grasping at straws though "terrorism,hostage taking" what will you use next?

and yes the group are protesters ... and yes they are peaceful though obviously some things have occurred that are not peaceful

You just can't bring yourself to say it, can you?

'The group are protesters' is irrefutably false. Some PAD are, some aren't. You implicitly acknowledge the violence on behalf of members of the PAD, though shy away from directly saying so through evasive grammar. What a merry dance! The 'terrorism' and 'hostage' issue is turning into a dispute about semantics. All I'm saying is that it's a known FACT to all that PAD member have been responsible for violent actions this past week, therefore the group as a whole can't be term as 'just peaceful protesters'. How could anybody possibly deny this given that we've all seen the myriad of media reports?

LOL

you can read all over that people have spoken out against violence. The PAD is a group of protesters ... As for violent actions this week, it sucks that some PAD guards shot at people when they were attacked. It doesn't suck that they made some police run away. It doesn't suck that someone was detained and released. It would suck if a person were held hostage. It sucks that so many banned members are creating new names. It doesn't suck when they get banned again

Wait, the TV van was attacking the PAD supporters?

And there it is.

Your choosing to say whether something sucks or not rather than acknowledge whether it's violent or not is pathetic.

Speeding towards police in a vehicle, getting out and brandishing weapons = aggressive, violent, and illegal

Shooting at a TV van = paranoid, indisciplined, violent and illegal

Kidnapping a policeman = violent and illegal

Dispatched.

[fudoshinanzan]

LOL ... no dear ... as pointed out by someone else it COULD be kidnapping or custodial interference .. it is not hostage taking (That is just Hyperbole)

Don't worry ... we all understand that you are grasping at straws though "terrorism,hostage taking" what will you use next?

and yes the group are protesters ... and yes they are peaceful though obviously some things have occurred that are not peaceful

You just can't bring yourself to say it, can you?

'The group are protesters' is irrefutably false. Some PAD are, some aren't. You implicitly acknowledge the violence on behalf of members of the PAD, though shy away from directly saying so through evasive grammar. What a merry dance! The 'terrorism' and 'hostage' issue is turning into a dispute about semantics. All I'm saying is that it's a known FACT to all that PAD member have been responsible for violent actions this past week, therefore the group as a whole can't be term as 'just peaceful protesters'. How could anybody possibly deny this given that we've all seen the myriad of media reports?

Thank you for articulating what I failed to... He won't reply to this though, I image he will say it was justified violence...

He loves using the passive. I think the most he'll ever concede is that...

It was unfortunate that a TV van was fired upon

It was unfortunate a policeman was detained and released

It was unfortunate that the police had to flee because of a truck of armed people speeding towards them

Why don't they boot the trolls here?

Detained and released... LMAO! Civilians kidnapping a police officer. Let's face it, this shtick of jd's is simply to get a rise.

Edited December 1, 2008 by fudoshinanzan

[tatt2dude]

LOL ... no dear ... as pointed out by someone else it COULD be kidnapping or custodial interference .. it is not hostage taking (That is just Hyperbole)

Don't worry ... we all understand that you are grasping at straws though "terrorism,hostage taking" what will you use next?

and yes the group are protesters ... and yes they are peaceful though obviously some things have occurred that are not peaceful

If they are "peaceful" than nothing "non peaceful" would have occurred... You are the one grasping... fine kidnapping you win I will say kidnapping, BUT HOW does that make it any less significant, how does that change the fact they took a police officer against his will?

Now please explain how Kidnapping is ok for the "peaceful" protestors?

LOL I didn't see any kidnapping, I saw someone detained and released but at least you are stepping down a level on the hyperbole. How daft do you have to be to not understand that "shit happens" ? if the bosses could be everywhere at once it would still happen.

Detained under what authority? Citizens arrest perhaps?

[chrislarsson]

What's the big deal about what you call the PAD? They are ruining the country...

It's complete madness. If it was the uneducated rural masses who was driving the country towards anarchy at least it would make some sense. But it's the urban elite...

Newsweek also wrote a article on this topic:

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/ov/archive/...r-struggle.aspx

The leaders of PAD certainly seem to have some extreme beliefs. The question is what they should be called...not the common people participating in the demonstrations. They are just being used as pawns in a much bigger game...

A terrorist must surely aim to cause terror in the population and the PAD certainly don't do that. Many Thais in Bangkok are weary of the conflict and disagree with their recent actions but understand their suspicions of the nominee government.

That's why most Bangkokians want a peaceful solution even if it does cause a large loss to the economy.

It's condescending of foreigners to call the supporters pawns, as seen from the pictures on TV many are middle aged ladies, families who saw through Thaksin a long time ago. They are not the elite, though the PAD are backed by some rich patrons, like the UDD with Thaksin.

Don't think too much about the sanitary towels or Sonthi's 'representational new politics', 99% of the PAD supporters are there to prevent the Shinawat dynasty from seizing Thailand, not to install an undemocratic order, that will never happen.

So 99% of the PAD supporters may be supporting something much worse than Thaksin.

Thaksin may have been corrupt and set himself ahead of the interest of the country. But he never exercised politics trying to destroy it...

If PAD is indeed concerned about the best interest of Thailand, why don't they leave the airports...and why did they go there from the beginning?

Edited December 1, 2008 by chrislarsson

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Call Mr. George.W.Bush, he loves the word terrorism!!

Someone please call the US Embassy and give them an anonymous tip that bin Laden is hiding among the PAD protesters at the airport. That should resolve the problem fairly quickly.

Daisycutter!!!

[sezze]

So stating that : We will fight to death .... is peacefull is it ??? They are unautorised in a place ...

Let's say i walk in a bank ... and i drive the guard back so i can get in the mainframe computersystem of the bank and then block the entrance makes me just a protester because let's say i want 100 million deposit on my account and if you try to push me out i will fight to the death to get my goal makes me just a protester ... nice idea ....

Sounds similar or not ???

[newtronbom]

So now the circus is on at one spot only: Swamppy. How do you think it will end?

If you are asking me? I have lived here over 8 years in total and have a pretty good grasp on "Thai culture". Today that means nothing in relation to current events. I, like all the Thai people I know, and there are many, have no idea how this will end, as it is influenced by so many factors, many of which we read here, but mostly due to those few people who are really behind this protest, and the people who are pushing the anti protesters. If this is beyond Thai understanding, it is certainly beyond mine. Sorry.

[Tex79]

So now the circus is on at one spot only: Swamppy. How do you think it will end?

Did I miss something...I thought they were still at Don Muang & Suvarnabhumi

Edited December 1, 2008 by Tex79

[jdinasia]

LOL

you can read all over that people have spoken out against violence. The PAD is a group of protesters ... As for violent actions this week, it sucks that some PAD guards shot at people when they were attacked. It doesn't suck that they made some police run away. It doesn't suck that someone was detained and released. It would suck if a person were held hostage. It sucks that so many banned members are creating new names. It doesn't suck when they get banned again

Really because the video I saw of PAD shooting does not show any one shooting at them, attacking them... nope just PAD shooting...

LOL ... Cool! so you disregard all the reports about the events unless ...

[atlas_shrugged]

Small corruption is mostly eradicated in developed countries, but I am not sure if big corruption is. For instance, take the example of Dick Cheney and Karl Rove. It is quite well known that they were the sources that exposed the CIA operative, Valerie Plame, to revenge her husband's exposure of White House lies to justify the invasion of Iraq. How come they are not in jail, and not even any legal process ongoing? This is nothing but big corruption.

Uhhhhh, no. Scooter Libby was the actual source, and he was tried and convicted. See Wikipedia "United States v. Libby":

"United States of America v. I. Lewis Libby, also known as "Scooter Libby" (USA v. LIBBY, Case No. 1:2005-cr-00394-RBW) is the federal trial of former high-ranking George W. Bush administration official I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby. Libby served as assistant to President George W. Bush, chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, and assistant to the Vice President for national security affairs from 2001–2005. Libby resigned from his government positions hours after his indictment on October 28, 2005.

"Libby was indicted by a federal grand jury on five felony counts of making false statements to federal investigators, perjury for lying to a federal grand jury, and obstruction of justice for impeding the course of a federal grand jury investigation concerned with the possibly-illegal leaking by government officials of the classified identity of a covert agent of the CIA, Valerie E. Wilson (also known as "Valerie Plame"), the wife of former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV. Pursuant to the grand jury leak investigation, Libby was convicted on March 6, 2007, on four counts of perjury, obstruction of justice, and making false statements, and he was acquitted of one count of making false statements. He was sentenced to thirty months in prison and fined $250,000. "

I know lots of people would like to believe the US is corrupt like Thailand, but it just won't fly.

-Atlas

[fudoshinanzan]

LOL

you can read all over that people have spoken out against violence. The PAD is a group of protesters ... As for violent actions this week, it sucks that some PAD guards shot at people when they were attacked. It doesn't suck that they made some police run away. It doesn't suck that someone was detained and released. It would suck if a person were held hostage. It sucks that so many banned members are creating new names. It doesn't suck when they get banned again

Really because the video I saw of PAD shooting does not show any one shooting at them, attacking them... nope just PAD shooting...

LOL ... Cool! so you disregard all the reports about the events unless ...

So you're saying they were provoked.

Shooting back at someone is peaceful protest?

Oh dear.