Building A Website.

[coalminer]

Hi,

I have build some website before on Yahoo and other free sites with success.

Most of them had their own online website builder (Site Builder) and made the creation of a website a whimp.

A few weeks ago, I decided to have my own "REAL" website and purchased a domain name and a hosting company.

But when it came to create the website, I couldn't find any good software.

Yahoo Sitebuilder is free to download, but when I wanted to create a website with this software, most of the "templates" wouldn't download and a website created with this software is linking every shit you put on your website (template, menu and menubar, buttons, etc.) to Yahoo.

This is not only slowing down your website considerable, but most of the times these links doesn't work and your websites looks like a mess when anyone tries to look at it in their browser.

The same thing with VODA.

The software is free to download, but every template, menu and menubar, etc. needs to be downloaded from their website and is only linked to your webpage, thus requiring a link to their website every time your own website is called.

I have MicroSoft Frontpage and Microsoft Publisher, which are pretty good packages to design a website, but the downside is that when you try to view your website in a browser like Mozilla, most of it will looks awfull (if you dont get an error before).

I have tried several other software (free and "try before you buy (=cracked), but everyone of them was deceiving and none of them was competent with other website building packages.

Does anybody knows about a really good website creation package which can create stand alone websites which are browser independent?

TIA

[Goyave]

No website building tools are perfect and if you want to do things professionally, you almost certainly will have to code some (or most of the) parts yourself "manually". Anyway, Dreamweaver (for instance) might help but it isn't a free tool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Dreamweaver

[Explorer]

Dreamweaver got my vote

Explorer

[Simmo]

If your site is static content only - Dreamweaver is a good choice. There's thousands of professional looking templates you can purchase for it if you don't want to spend the time learning HTML.

If your site has dynamic content eg news posting , shopping cart , forums etc - look into a modern CMS system such as Drupal or Wordpress. Too many variables there to go into - if you value your time get someone experienced to do it after you write a good requirements doc.

[oneeyedmunstaruler]

It really does matter what you want your site to do. For me, installing WordPress was a breeze and provides me with a very configurable, easy to manage, and professional looking site. Plus I manage it all online, though I back things up once in a while. Check it out!

Edited December 3, 2008 by oneeyedmunstaruler

[ijwelch]

Have a look at Joomla:

http://www.joomla.org/

and Drupal:

http://drupal.org/

or look at some of the links at this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_content_management_system

[niller74]

I have experience with both Drupal and Joomla. Both are good, but the Drupal development seems to be going a lot faster than Joomla. This is primarily due to the fact that there are many more devs working on Drupal. Furthermore the Drupal framework seems more solid, where Joomla can be a little messy. Joomla could use a complete rewrite of their core imo.

Generally if you wish to build your own site, knowledge of HTML is a must and PHP or similar is a huge advantage. Don't ever expect to build something professional without getting your hands in the code (script).

There are many great resources online that can help you on the way. My favorite site by far, which I would like to mention here is php.net. They have a local mirror at th.php.net

Enjoy

[coalminer]

Thanks for the many replies.

I have a very good knowledge of HTML and know my way in Java script.

In fact, I like to put something anywhere on my web page (images, buttons, frames, a.o.) and then go into the HTML code and program the exact position and the exact code.

The main problem with Web Creation programs I encounter is that most of them are only putting a link to the Web Creation site which is then called from your web site.

Other programs I have tried, are programming the complete web site in their specific extension and are thus incompatible with every other program.

I will give the programs given in the replies a try and keep you informed.

[surface]

If you are looking for a basic CMS, CMS Made Simple, IMO, is light years ahead of Joomla/Drupal with regards to easy of use and speed.

http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/

[desi]

I have MicroSoft Frontpage and Microsoft Publisher, which are pretty good packages to design a website....

No harm intended, but may I make a suggestion? To save you money and heartache, hire a company with a known track record in web work.

Several people have contacted you in this post. And although I don't know then from Adam, perhaps look into their services first?

[klikster]

Thanks for the many replies.

I have a very good knowledge of HTML and know my way in Java script.

In fact, I like to put something anywhere on my web page (images, buttons, frames, a.o.) and then go into the HTML code and program the exact position and the exact code.

The main problem with Web Creation programs I encounter is that most of them are only putting a link to the Web Creation site which is then called from your web site.

Other programs I have tried, are programming the complete web site in their specific extension and are thus incompatible with every other program.

I will give the programs given in the replies a try and keep you informed.

If you really have good knowledge of HTML/CSS, then a simple text editor with code highlighting is all you should need .. unless your're planning on doing dynamic sites .. then get someone to write the javascript or PHP. A WYSIWYG editor will often create more problems that it fixes .. and if you are continually working in "Design" view, you really don't learn how to find and fix a problem.

If you want a free "Dreamweaver-like" application, look up NVU (http://net2.com/nvu/) .. which is also ported to Linux. For an FTP client, try Filezilla.

There are some free templates available on the web. Just Google around.

Another way is to download the index page from a site you like, then "reverse engineer" it by changing the color scheme and CSS styles to customize it.

If you need a little brushing up on HTML/CSS, http://www.w3schools.com/ have free tutorials on everything imaginable.

As for CMS .. by using Wordpress, Joomla, or Drupal .. and not knowing how to properly secure it, you may well be 1000 X more likely to get your site hacked than if you build static HTML pages.

A few suggestions:

• Learn about file permissions.
  
• Test your pages in IE6-7, FF, and Opera.
  
• Don't use Javascript menus
  

[Jimjim]

Best free website builder is html and css. I learned html for free here, but didn't get to the CSS part yet, which these days is most important if you want to know how to make a modern website. Php is also becoming very popular. Learn to code, my friend, learn to code. I am not great at it, but that's what many have told me if I want to be serious about it. So if that's you, learn html, css and php, etc.

Edit: Oh, and the Microsoft tools to build websites are absolute <deleted> for the very reason you mentioned. You can only see them in Internet Explorer, which is the worst browser on the market but only used by many because it comes from Microsoft.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Jimjim

[coalminer]

Best free website builder is html and css. I learned html for free here, but didn't get to the CSS part yet, which these days is most important if you want to know how to make a modern website. Php is also becoming very popular. Learn to code, my friend, learn to code. I am not great at it, but that's what many have told me if I want to be serious about it. So if that's you, learn html, css and php, etc.

Edit: Oh, and the Microsoft tools to build websites are absolute <deleted> for the very reason you mentioned. You can only see them in Internet Explorer, which is the worst browser on the market but only used by many because it comes from Microsoft.

First all, an explanation of what I mean with "the main problem with Web Creation programs I encounter is that most of them are only putting a link to the Web Creation site which is then called from your web site."

Suppose, you want to put a "visitor counter" in your website.

Most of the DIY or WYSIWYG website designing software I have tried, will put in your website only a link, somewhat like "http://www.counter.com", to the counter.

Your website will need to call this link to the counter everytime your website is visited, making your website very slow and most of the times will produce simply an error or time-out.

Second, in response to the members who suggested to hire a website design company or to follow a HTML study.

Although these responses are appreciated as well, I want to design my own website and I have a very good knowledge of HTML already.

Like I said before, I like to design most of my webpages directly in HTML (not "design" mode), and see the result in different browsers (Microsoft, Firefox, Opera, a.o.)

I would never succeed to view my website in different browsers if I would be programming only in "design" mode or Microsoft programs.

Using your words, Microsoft is maybe a package that is used by 3/4 of the world, but when it comes to use their software to produce professional looking website which can be viewed in most browers, Microsoft software sucks.

[wxpwzrd]

Actually Microsoft has a couple different solutions which do not "suck" by any means. Frontpage was replaced by Expressions Web Designer and Expressions is now a suite of products, all very good - but have a cost. They also have a free development platform suite in Visual Developer Express (Web, C# and VB). This will assist you if you are designing server side code in your applications. Adobe of course has their own excellent product as part of the recently-released CS4 suite.

The problem here is that everyone is telling you CMS CMS CMS, when that may be total overkill for what you seek. You really did not define the parameters of what you are designing.

[coalminer]

The problem here is that everyone is telling you CMS CMS CMS, when that may be total overkill for what you seek. You really did not define the parameters of what you are designing.

I am designing a website with the history of Thai music and Thai instruments, built-in media player to listen and view MultiMedia examples, frames displaying additional information on the topic viewed, etc...

[desi]

Second, in response to the members who suggested to hire a website design company or to follow a HTML study.

Although these responses are appreciated as well, I want to design my own website and I have a very good knowledge of HTML already.

My response last night was too brief. What I should have added was the suggestion to hire a programmer to work with (that's what I do, well, 'did' as I no longer work). But this was my assuming you'll be needing php, css and cms, the lot.

I am designing a website with the history of Thai music and Thai instruments, built-in media player to listen and view MultiMedia examples, frames displaying additional information on the topic viewed, etc...

Then why not use WordPress? You can create typical website as it's not only for blogs. The cms and additional plugins are a plus. An additional plus, the css and php have already been worked out (but there's always room for twiddling).

Side note: I'm interested in seeing your site after you finish as I have an interest in Thai music...

[chuck_s]

If your site is static content only - Dreamweaver is a good choice. There's thousands of professional looking templates you can purchase for it if you don't want to spend the time learning HTML.

If your site has dynamic content eg news posting , shopping cart , forums etc - look into a modern CMS system such as Drupal or Wordpress. Too many variables there to go into - if you value your time get someone experienced to do it after you write a good requirements doc.

Dreamweaver. You can d/l a limited time version or get it at Pentip Plaza at any of the software vendors. tough if you don't know ow to use it, then it would be advised to by a quick reference book to help get you started or ask a friend to show you the basics or design it himself. The templates you can also buy from there as well. Just look and see what they have to offer. But if you do buy a template from there, you need to know how to use Photoshop to change the images / buttons to suit your purpose.

Wordpress is ok, but limited in what you want to do. You can also d/l some sample templates to use, but as with any site that uses a free software, you will need to know the programing language behind it to really customize it.

• CMS -Content Management System- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_management_system, many to choose from.
  
• PHPNuke -www.phpnuke.org
  
• Mamboo -old school, but effective -www.mambo-foundation.org
  
• Joomla http://www.joomla.org/Jamialo. which replaced Mamboo a few years back. I have designed a few sites using this software.
  
• Drupal http:www.drupal.org
  
• These are the most popular CMS to choose from.
  

[GmB]

If you really have good knowledge of HTML/CSS, then a simple text editor with code highlighting is all you should need ..

This is the truth and the answer to the topic. You could try Ultraedit wich is probably one of the bests

[coalminer]

This is the truth and the answer to the topic. You could try Ultraedit wich is probably one of the bests

I use Ultraedit for many years now, and I have made some tweaks in my registrery (XP) to open almost all files which I right-click with UltraEdit.

[coalminer]

If you really have good knowledge of HTML/CSS, then a simple text editor with code highlighting is all you should need ..

This is the truth and the answer to the topic. You could try Ultraedit wich is probably one of the bests

A very good HTML Editor which I'm using and which is freeware is "Thai-HTML Editor".

http://www.geocities.com/wirat_n/hmong.html

It comes bundled with 7 lessons.

Although the name is "Thai HTML Editor", all the menus are in English.

[Rabeang]

Head on over to wordpress.org and download the latest version of their blogging platform. It's very easy to install and doesn't require a degree in Nuclear Physics to use. While Wordpress's main function is a blogging system, I use it to power most of my websites. Download a free theme from wordpress.org/extend/themes and customize it to your preferences.

When modifying your theme, stay away from FrontPage as it ads loads of unnecessary code. Get a light free Web Authoring program, I enjoy using Bluefish which is opensource and crossplatform. If you have the cash I would go for Dreamweaver.

For a look at what you can accomplish with Wordpress, check out my new site URL removed. There are also a multitude of plugins available for Wordpress that will help you extend it in any way you may think of (forums, galleries, SEO, etc.).

[ConceptGuy]

Seen the posts above, the answer to many trouble is www.one.com, an excellent hostingprovider that provides everything you need, even more. For e-commerce solutions they advise Zen and OS Commerce as troublefree combinations.

About counters and speed, I have best experiences with www.statcounter.com (you will love their stats !) don't worry about your website being made slow, that has more to do with the PC who opens it and it's internet connection. 90% of speed trouble is because of bad maintained PC's, even in Thailand !

Recommendable also: URL removed the webbuilder startpage where a whole lot information can be found, 100's of useful links, you will love this directory !

Edited December 9, 2008 by Reimar
URL removed, Reimar

[Crushdepth]

The problem here is that everyone is telling you CMS CMS CMS, when that may be total overkill for what you seek. You really did not define the parameters of what you are designing.

Even for a basic site, I think its worthwhile to learn to use a CMS. Once you get over the installation learning curve you can build highly functional sites in half an hour or so - and if he wants to focus on design, he can do that without having to worry about learning programming (although of course, it is useful to know).

Building and maintaining sites by hand is just too slow...unless its an extremely simple site.

[ozymandious]

New to the Block and Very Powerful and sleek is Square Space.

Check them out at www.squarespace.com it's supposed to be like Typepad and Wordpress on crack

they even have a neat challenge section of rebuilding popular web sites in 30min or less!!! and they show it to you.

Edited December 9, 2008 by ozymandious

[Plus]

Like I said before, I like to design most of my webpages directly in HTML (not "design" mode), and see the result in different browsers (Microsoft, Firefox, Opera, a.o.)

I would never succeed to view my website in different browsers if I would be programming only in "design" mode or Microsoft programs.

Notepad++

It will check your syntax as you type - html, javascript, css, php, whatever, it knows probably a hundred different languages.

It will color mark your code for easy navigation, colors are fully customisable.

It will keep track of you opening-closing brackets - {} - very helpful for javascript or php.

It will give you code hint tools - autocomplete for long mysql command lines, for example.

It will let you open all your files in one window, in tabs - main html, linked css and javascript files - easy to switch between and save to see the changes.

You'd also need an FTP client to upload your files to the server, there are literally hundreds of them. Someone mentioned Filezilla, I think I have CoreFTP on a notebook (but I rarely use it, so forgive my memory.

>>>>

Once you've done the initial design you will need to work on it, and here the browsers are your best friends.

In Opera you can open your site, view the "source", and edit it straight away. Then hit "apply changes" and voila - the preview is already in your browser. Not a design tool but perfect for applying little touches here and there.

You MUST also have Firebug for Firefox - the best debugging tool there is. All html, javascript, css, DOM - it's all there. Javascript errors are recorded, CSS is visually represented - the way the browser reads and shows it. All DOM properties are there, too - very useful to javascript modified pages. You can also make changes on the fly without reloading the page.

Another useful Firefox plugin is something called HTML validator or similar, search for it, should be the first result. It will check your page for standard compliance and among other things it will give you the page source AFTER javscript has been executed on your computer, that means when you click on something and the page changes without reloading, and something goes wrong - you can check the current page source, after the browser altered it.

Get IE8, their inbuilt developer tool is not as convenient but equally as powerful. Betas are fine.

In-built developer tool in Opera is called Dragonfly and it is hidden in Tools-Advanced-Developer Tools, it's the least convenient of all and has a steep learning curve, and it loads externally, but it's updated almost weekly and is better for debugging long pages of javascript. While with Opera - google for their developer tools menu, it has great many different options and features - like CSS hover tool - move your mouse over a page element and Opera gives you its calculated CSS properties. You can also edit CSS on the fly - try all the different values and immediately see the effects, no messing up with saving and uploading. Oh, and there are "open in FF" and "open in IE" buttons to see how the page looks in other browsers, too.

>>>

So, to recap, these are the two basic steps:

First, Notepad++ for initial design.

Second, browser tools for further development and enhancement.

Third, an FTP client to upload your files to the server.

[desi]

Even for a basic site, I think its worthwhile to learn to use a CMS. Once you get over the installation learning curve you can build highly functional sites in half an hour or so - and if he wants to focus on design, he can do that without having to worry about learning programming (although of course, it is useful to know).

Building and maintaining sites by hand is just too slow...unless its an extremely simple site.

I agree. My Thai hairdresser in BKK is feeling the crunch due to the recent political snafu, so, in the hopes it'll help bring more business in, I'm throwing together a site for him using WP as a cms (not as a blog). Even with my doing the photography and chasing copy, it'll only take under a half day to put it all together. I'm spending more time picking a theme than anything else, as there are hundreds to choose from.

[wxpwzrd]

The problem here is that everyone is telling you CMS CMS CMS, when that may be total overkill for what you seek. You really did not define the parameters of what you are designing.

Even for a basic site, I think its worthwhile to learn to use a CMS. Once you get over the installation learning curve you can build highly functional sites in half an hour or so - and if he wants to focus on design, he can do that without having to worry about learning programming (although of course, it is useful to know).

Building and maintaining sites by hand is just too slow...unless its an extremely simple site.

Actually, I completely disagree with your premis of always using a CMS. However in the poster's case, I believe it is probably the best solution for them - depending on how much they intend to update it and keep it fresh.

I am a professional consultant and developer and I use the tool for the job. Sometimes it is Visual Studio and .NET, sometimes PHP, sometimes a cart. But NEVER 'always' a CMS. The problem with many CMS is that invariably the user will decide to add modules, components, etc.. and they do not necessarily play nice since the vast majority is open source and not always coded well. Many times there is an amount of troubleshooting due to the complexity of the core or a module not playing well.

[tigerbeer]

Actually, I completely disagree with your premis of always using a CMS. However in the poster's case, I believe it is probably the best solution for them - depending on how much they intend to update it and keep it fresh.

I am a professional consultant and developer and I use the tool for the job. Sometimes it is Visual Studio and .NET, sometimes PHP, sometimes a cart. But NEVER 'always' a CMS. The problem with many CMS is that invariably the user will decide to add modules, components, etc.. and they do not necessarily play nice since the vast majority is open source and not always coded well. Many times there is an amount of troubleshooting due to the complexity of the core or a module not playing well.

agree with you but some of us are not programmers and have to rely on CMS to help build a professional looking site.

after reading this thread, can anyone recommend a good cms which has a cart like module that can help me showcase my products? I need Thai language support as well.

[wxpwzrd]

Actually, I completely disagree with your premis of always using a CMS. However in the poster's case, I believe it is probably the best solution for them - depending on how much they intend to update it and keep it fresh.

I am a professional consultant and developer and I use the tool for the job. Sometimes it is Visual Studio and .NET, sometimes PHP, sometimes a cart. But NEVER 'always' a CMS. The problem with many CMS is that invariably the user will decide to add modules, components, etc.. and they do not necessarily play nice since the vast majority is open source and not always coded well. Many times there is an amount of troubleshooting due to the complexity of the core or a module not playing well.

agree with you but some of us are not programmers and have to rely on CMS to help build a professional looking site.

after reading this thread, can anyone recommend a good cms which has a cart like module that can help me showcase my products? I need Thai language support as well.

Well, I hate to tell you. The CMS does not make it automatic... Most of what makes a professional looking site will be a professionally made template, whether it is in a CMS or any site.

I am actually doing some work on Joomla based sites, and the skinning system is harder there than it would have been on an equivalent non-CMS site.

You may be hard pressed to find a CMS with Thai language support. But I have also not looked for language packs. Although the major open source CMS organizations are always looking for assistance in creating the language pack. Perhaps you could assist in that.

[Crushdepth]

There is a Thai Joomla community, I'm sure there is a fair bit of Thai language stuff.