My Marriage Made Me Do It (?)

[onni4me]

Something happened this week that made me look texts about infidelity. I'll write more on that later. Although, it's about heteros, I believe it applies to gays as well.

One kind of affair I write about in my e-book is called, "My Marriage Made Me Do It."

Here are some signs and patterns you can expect in this kind of affair:

1. Expect that your spouse will have a very powerful attachment to the other person. The other person will consistently be on her mind. Your spouse will shift energy away from you, the children, the household and her career to her affair relationship. She will be focused, but not on you. Your spouse will attempt to push you away by avoiding you, ignoring you, closing off communication or walking away.

2. The affair will most likely be a long-term affair. It will be very difficult for your spouse to walk away from the other person. He may try on a number of occasions but will continue to gravitate back to the other person. He will hold on tenaciously. This is probably the first or only affair for your spouse. Your spouse is not interested in playing or fooling around but powerfully attaching to the other person. The other person is the savior!

3. Don’t believe that the affair was planned before hand because of a bad marriage. These affairs usually just happen. They usually happen with someone in close proximity: co-worker, neighbor, friend (frequently of friends with whom you socialize), etc. The other person is usually the aggressor, your spouse lacking the confidence to seek out the affair. The rationale that it happened because of a lousy marriage comes after the affair is in bloom.

4. The more you try to persuade, convince or pursue, the more strongly he will attach to the other person. He will perceive your efforts as weakness and will want to attach more intently to the other person whom he (at perhaps an unconscious level) deems to be the powerful and loving answer-to-all.

5. Efforts to use moral or religious arguments to call a halt to the affair will be strongly resisted. Your spouse is not guided by rightness or wrongness. These standards have not been internalized and do not carry much weight, especially when it comes to the important chunks of her life. The actions and thoughts of your spouse primarily originate from her need to attach to another person. Any behavior or concept that serves the purpose of maintaining the attachment will be valued. Others are discarded.

6. Expect you will spend a significant amount of time and emotional energy in the next 2 to 4 years (especially if there are children) attempting to resolve the relationship. By resolve, I mean, coming to a point where each of you are fairly free of the emotional entanglement that holds you together and generates the pain and fear. It will be important for you to resolve the relationship whether you continue to be married or separate and divorce.

Does this fit your situation?

Do you see the importance of understanding in-depth the signs of infidelity. Once you do, you will have many more options available that will help you break free.

Dr. Robert Huizenga, The Infidelity Coach, has helped hundreds of couples over the past two decades heal from the agony of extramarital affairs and survive infidelity.

Edited December 13, 2008 by onni4me

[Samuian]

Thanks for letting us know, first of all: it always takes two!

If it's not good enough, it's not good enough!

I find out, I don't need no Dr.Whoever... I will talk and try or walk out and bye, bye, babe!

remember she/he will have a firm reason and believe in her/his "savior", if someone makes such a choice, it's OVER, no reason to throw away ones dignity!

Remember!

Walk away, don't carry on the drama, after all it isn't worth it!

Edited December 13, 2008 by Samuian

[Ijustwannateach]

Affairs (from small to large) are quite common in the gay world, world-wide. Seem pretty common in the straight world, too. Maybe the real problem is that this isn't acknowledged as reality and there aren't good social mechanisms to ease transitions between partners.

[Scott]

I am terribly unfaithful, but I don't have affairs--just trysts. No emotional commitment--that remains for my partner. I just know very, very few gay couples who are faithful.

[onni4me]

Affairs (from small to large) are quite common in the gay world, world-wide. Seem pretty common in the straight world, too. Maybe the real problem is that this isn't acknowledged as reality and there aren't good social mechanisms to ease transitions between partners.

Hmm...what happened was that I was being unfaithful. So stupid. I have been under a lot of pressure from my work lately and ended up drinking with couple of so called friends and a thing led to another. My bf doesn't drink so he wasn't there.

I really have no intention doing that but obviously drinking may lead to sexual encounters. They might attach a warning label to all those bottles.

Whatever someone might say, it was stupid and I feel really bad. My bf doesn't know and I hope he will never know. The text quote was just something I found since I was thinking it over and wondered how other people might feel. Some seem to take it quite lightly but for me it poses a problem.

Well, things happen. What else I can say. Even if I try to be a person of reason, these things seem to come from more deeper layers of my 'ape' side. Maybe males are not monogamous bu nature even if they have a loving good-hearted partner.

And finally...I hope no-one preaches me about morals. This is a personal issue and as such quite hurtful. Advice and thoughtful words are appreciated.

[PeaceBlondie]

In my homo opinion, I think fidelity is rather silly. Maybe fidelity is a remnant from patriarchies where the leading men simply insisted their wives not fool around and get impregnated by other men, so that patriarchs could know for sure who their fathers were. Gay men need not worry like that. Also, fidelity seems to be a remnant of modern, straight monogamy which is not needed now for gay men. If you and he choose to be faithful to each other, praise the lord and pass the gravy. If you both choose to be unfaithful, praise the lord and pass the gravy, mai bpen rai. Don't make promises you are unable to keep.

[popshirt]

I am terribly unfaithful, but I don't have affairs--just trysts. No emotional commitment--that remains for my partner. I just know very, very few gay couples who are faithful.

Same same for me. "Faithfulness" has to do with the heart, not the genitals.

[onni4me]

In my homo opinion, I think fidelity is rather silly.

Hmm...maybe yes. I am not actually concerned about sex. That is like putting butter on your sandwich. But what worries me is that I might hurt someone real bad. My bf is clever but in some sense what comes to sex etc. he is quite 'innocent'.

I feel that one major reason for gays not finding long-time partners is the promiscuity. Who wants to speak or confess love to someone that constantly kicks over the fence? It lowers ones self-esteem and what comes to Thais there is the question of face.

And don't ask if there exists something called 'love'. I am a firm believer.

Edited December 14, 2008 by onni4me

[PeaceBlondie]

My friend has two partners, an older Thai and a younger one, all of them gay. My friend has maintained both relationships, and they both know it. But the older one is not very good at sex, and the younger one not good at in depth relationships. Each man seems to each get what he wants.

[Ijustwannateach]

Onni:

Not to be harsh, but it wasn't the alcohol that made the decision to have a fling, and it wasn't your partner (or your relationship with him), and it wasn't your 'ape nature,' either- it was you. Whatever else you do, if you're going to write books of advice, you might advise people to take responsibility for their actions. Failure to do that is the beginning of a lot of trouble in people's lives.

[onni4me]

My friend has two partners, an older Thai and a younger one, all of them gay. My friend has maintained both relationships, and they both know it. But the older one is not very good at sex, and the younger one not good at in depth relationships. Each man seems to each get what he wants.

Happy for them. I was not that much into sex as subject rather the cause for personal misery. I maybe am quite sensitive and the last thing is to make someone suffer. To each their own.

I am quite honest in personal degree and it is hard for me to keep secrets in relationship. However, this is the kind of thing that I will put behind me after adjusting my feeling.

I am happy that some people can share and its not away from me but personally I feel better not sharing my inner side to so many.

I would hope you out there to share some idea how this kind of situation has reflected upon you in the past and what kind of solution you came up with. Or maybe you just left it as it is?

Edited December 14, 2008 by onni4me

[marc11864]

Interesting thoughts and opinions all.

For me faithfulness did have to do with the heart. Once I was able to realize that, the genitals simply followed. I myself spent much of my life believing, hoping, researching and reading in an effort to attain a monogamous relationship. It would always end drifting in a sea of infidelity on either of our parts though more often mine. It has only been with my current partner of going on four years and with 8652 miles (13925 Km) between us for most of that time that I've found the success that I sought. I couldn't show or tell you why that is the case it's just I guess when the time was right it was just... right!

I don't see either of us stepping out on the other because we've somehow built a significantly stronger bond between us because of the distance. We have had little sex for now but neither one cares to stray.

Just my two cents.

[onni4me]

Onni:

Not to be harsh, but it wasn't the alcohol that made the decision to have a fling, and it wasn't your partner (or your relationship with him), and it wasn't your 'ape nature,' either- it was you. Whatever else you do, if you're going to write books of advice, you might advise people to take responsibility for their actions. Failure to do that is the beginning of a lot of trouble in people's lives.

Yep. I realize it was me. There were the oppurtunity and the means. However, I don't take it lightly and this was the reason I am doing some soul searching just now.

I am responsible and whatever but there are moments that one is less than some other time. I am more curious to hear if anyone has had moments like this and how they have lived on and what they have thought. I bet there are few.

[Scott]

Omni: It's different strokes for different folks. In your case, you feel bad and that's not a bad thing. The world would probably be a lot better place if our conscience had more power than our penises! There was a time when I thought being monogomous was very important--I don't know if my opinion really changed or if I just 'gave' up and accepted who I am. The point, however, is that in a relationship it has to be about two people and it's wrong to hurt other people.

It's the kind of thing that requires some discussion, and honesty. That doesn't mean you have to tell everything, but it does need that you know your partners expectations--and your own limitations.

Finally, don't beat yourself up too much. Things happen; pick the pieces and do better next time.

[Navalator]

All of this discussion smacks of dysfunctional western christian morality which does not work in the west and certainly will not work in Thailand.

[onni4me]

All of this discussion smacks of dysfunctional western christian morality which does not work in the west and certainly will not work in Thailand.

Yes, many things are different from what they used to be and World is much smaller place nowadays what comes to distances between things. One thing, though. Western morals had their place in the social circles of people, sometimes protecting them in times of uncertainty and giving them courage to face the unknown.

There are sort of blurred grey areas where we can never shrug off our culture and its moral heritage, its effect on us. This goes with Thais as well. But now as we are more closer in this new bright World, one might point out that being in Thailand is not that different from other places what comes to experiences. I suppose that Somchai 100+ years ago would have behaved much different from what might come up to his mind in the World of today. There were no television, no karaoke bars, no advertising (at leats in the giant sized ones we see around Bangkok), no flashy lights and no HIV.

I, for one, might try to undertand this World from my experience and use my feeling and understanding of right and wrong even if the concept would be different from the times they were laid before us. If I would choose to ignore totally the wrong and right, what would it leave left? Confusion or sosiopathic tendencies? Would I become split in pixels like an old TV and vanish as a person/personality? I still believe, morals or not, that one has to choose between guidelines. It is a postmodern view that we can be everywhere, every time, with everybody. We might sort of do that with techniqal advantages we have, but that would split our inner self in such chaos that we would seize to exist as a human being.

I have no morals when it comes to other peoples doings but regarding myself...I am quite strict...at least sometimes. I try to learn to let go and enjoy myself - responsively.

[Ijustwannateach]

Onni, don't mean you shouldn't have had the fling- it might have been the right time for you- but you're bringing up a lot of 'excuses' which show you're not very willing to 'own' the fling- and you've said that you're pretty bothered by it.

I don't know if I want a long term monogamous relationship in the near future, but to me the 'moral' element isn't in the sex itself but in the commitment made to a partner. If we're going to go to the trouble of a monogamous relationship, then it should be same rules for all, eyes wide open. Same thing if it's understood there isn't a commitment- same rules for both. No dramas, no angst, no commitments we both can't keep.

I suspect that either your relationship or your commitment level needs examining, Onni, with reference to what you really want and not what you think you're 'supposed to do.' This could involve some unpleasant conversations and changes in your life in the short term, but if you're getting what you want in the long term it's the best for all involved, really.

[onni4me]

Eyes wide shut, rather...

I took this chance to share my feeling. Basically we all are sensitive to some level. Some more than the others. I believe I am happy in my relationship and that I will try to enhance it the best I can.

The other stuff I will discuss at some point. Just that it bothered me and I wondered what I actually wanted/gained from this encounter. Not much I guess. Maybe it helps me to set more clear limits. Hope so...