Tv Members And Political Correctness

[Maigo6]

BTW...

Guesthouse, Merry Xmas, as it appears to be politically incorrect to call it Christmas in fear of upsetting non Christians.

I dunno GH, you're a man of the world and widely travelled, don't you think that countries like mine ( UK ) have gone over the top to accomodate others whilst forgetting their own heritage, their own people, in favour of people of different faiths ?

If I went to Mecca and started praying to Jesus Christ during the Haj, would it be tolerated ?

Sorry if this has been covered in the last 26 pages, but I can't be bothered to read the whole lot of posts that have been enetered

Anyway, cheers from Loei on Christmas Day.

Edited December 25, 2008 by Maigo6

[garro]

So now we have the anti-PC'ers claiming that the PC movement is responsible for the fear adults have of touching children and the demise of good old Santa Claus.

Are these people on drugs? The PC movement has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. This is purely down to the fact that there are a lot of perverts out in the world plus there are a lot of litigeneous (?) folks just looking for a reason to sue somebody. Organisations that set up public events these days have to be so bluddy careful regarding safety etc and carry huge insurance against all manner of threats it is becoming just not worth the effort nor expense.

This has nothing to do with PC nor, as the bleating flock would have it, the "nanny state". It's all, specifically focussing on the PC anti Santa claims, to do with the number of sex offenders being put back into society without the necessary controls. This is nothing to do with PC but is a result of years of liberal policies towards criminals of all types and government's cost cutting measures to reduce prison populations. So don't blame PC'ness for it, if anybody blame the human rights movement and their focus on the rights of the criminal over those of the victims.

And don't blame the "nanny state", go look in the mirror. It is YOU the people who raise litigation because YOU couldn't pick your feet up and tripped over that paving slab. It is YOU the parents who abdicate from your responsibility for looking after YOUR children. [Excuse the off topic rant]

But of course the rabid anti-PC element won't have that preferring to blame anybody else but themselves for their woes. I'm a little surprised they haven't blamed global warming and the financial meltdown on PC yet.

I used to be anti-PC myself and have let loose some tirades against the actions of those who represent the movement. I still am anti some of the excesses but have come to realise that most of the examples of PC extremism are nothing more than one individual overstepping the mark or a newshound on a slow news day.

Don't believe everything you read in the SUN or the DAILY EXPRESS.

Rubbish! PC is a state of mind, that has caused ( IMO ) people, mainly women, to regard single men with suspicion. Why else do women ASSUME that because a man is looking at them that he wants to have sex with them ( there has been another thread about this subject, so won't elaborate )? Why am I subjected to harrasment at the airport because they ASSUME I am a paedophile ( with no record or evidence )? Why do mothers ASSUME that any man who looks at their children want to abuse them? Why do the courts ASSUME that mothers make better parents than fathers?

IMO it's all part of the PC attitude, and is nothing to do with litigation. None of the cases above would involve litigation.

As for your claim that there are a "lot of perverts out there"; what are your statistics? Out of 6 billion people on earth, how many are perverts? You don't know, but you are contributing to the hysteria about perverts in the community. Fact- most child abuse is carried out by people who know the child- relatives!

The number of assaults by strangers is miniscule. Yet the FEAR of being accused is driving people to live paranoid lives. Yes, some fathers do fear being accused of inapropriate behaviour if they hug their children. Now that really is a "sick society"!

Being PC is also about other stuff of course, but IMO, the above is the worst effect of being a PC society.

The percentage of the population which are involved in this activity is unknown. The number of unreported cases is unknown. So how do you know that it is mostly committed by relatives? Almost all of my friends admit to at least being groped as a kid.

In the past this abuse was hidden away and offenders knew that chances are they would get away with it. People did not take the claims seriously and accused those making them of being hysterical. There were similar claims to what you are making about how it all was exaggerated.

Now it may not suit you that grown-ups have to be more cautious around children, but I think that it is a great step forward. I have worked with young children and now work with older children. In my last occupation there were many precautions taken to safeguard the children and even though these safeguards could be inconvenient I supported them 100%. My sympathy is far more with the child than the person who misses been able to touch kids he doesn't know. If a stranger wants to touch my child he better have a good reason.

As far as your comments about western woman. I have never noticed the claims that you are making against them.

OK, the ACTUAL/ UNREPORTED number not known, but reported/ prosecuted mainly known to the abused.

Whom were your friends all groped by? Stranger adults, adult relatives, siblings, schoolfriends? It makes a difference!

I pity you, assuming ALL men are perverts. What a paranoid life. Perhaps you should not have had children, if the world is such a terrible place. What will you do when they are old enough to want to go off on their own? Lock them up?

The way western women are paranoid about men is a frequent and topical discussion subject by most western men ( that I know or have met ).

BTW, you don't need to worry about me touching your child. Even lying bleeding to death, I will get a female to save its life. People with your attitude make me far too paranoid to go anywhere near a child. I used to work in a paediatric ward, but would never do so now, as people like you would accuse me of being a paedophile.

I'll tell you what sparky, why don't you let me worry about my decisions to bring children into the world. Interesting that a man who claims to have worked in a paediatric setting would allow a chlid to bleed to death. I am glad that people like me make you too paranoid to work children. Luckily many of the caring children nurses, both male and female, will not share the same attitude as you and put children's safety above their concerns of what people think of them. I have to say though that nobody has ever accused me of these things and I never took any checks on my character personally.

[GuestHouse]

BTW...

Guesthouse, Merry Xmas, as it appears to be politically incorrect to call it Christmas in fear of upsetting non Christians.

I dunno GH, you're a man of the world and widely travelled, don't you think that countries like mine ( UK ) have gone over the top to accomodate others whilst forgetting their own heritage, their own people, in favour of people of different faiths ?

If I went to Mecca and started praying to Jesus Christ during the Haj, would it be tolerated ?

Sorry if this has been covered in the last 26 pages, but I can't be bothered to read the whole lot of posts that have been enetered

Anyway, cheers from Loei on Christmas Day.

Merry Christmas Maigo.

I can't guess the reaction to you praying in Mecca itself, I do know that there was a Christmas service in our office (in Mecca Province) planned for this morning, following the Christmas service we had in the office last Christmas. I also know that there have been no objections to the Christmas decorations I put up i9n my office. And I had several of my Saudi Muslim colleages wish me and my family a happy Christmas on the day I set off for my Christmas holiday here in the UK.

As for the UK forgetting it's own faith, I presume you are referring to the Christian Faith, if so you are a bit late, church attendance has been in decline in the UK for over a century now - Though our local Catholic church is enjoying something of a revival of late, attendance to services having shot up due to the large numbers of practicing Catholics amongst the new Polish and other East European imigrants.

I note too that the UK Labour Party have called for the dis-establishment of Church and State, echoing calls by non other than the Arch Bishop of Cantebury.

The term 'Post Christian UK' seems to fit well.

[bonobo]

As Phil Harries rightly pointed out, this is another example of Political Correctness being blamed for something which is nothing to do with Political Correctness.

Interestingly, the News Papers and Media that promotes an Anti-PC message are also those that pump out the message that Pedophiles are hiding around every corner.

They are also the same 'News' sources that delight in condemning single men for visiting Thailand.

OK, I have to agree with your first statement that this is at least one example, but I am not sold yet on all the supposed rest of them.

But just what media that supposedly promotes an anti-PC message "are also those that pump out the message that Pedophiles are hiding around every corner?" You keep asking for links, so now I am asking you for some.

[sbk]

OK, the ACTUAL/ UNREPORTED number not known, but reported/ prosecuted mainly known to the abused.

Whom were your friends all groped by? Stranger adults, adult relatives, siblings, schoolfriends? It makes a difference!

I pity you, assuming ALL men are perverts. What a paranoid life. Perhaps you should not have had children, if the world is such a terrible place. What will you do when they are old enough to want to go off on their own? Lock them up?

The way western women are paranoid about men is a frequent and topical discussion subject by most western men ( that I know or have met ).

BTW, you don't need to worry about me touching your child. Even lying bleeding to death, I will get a female to save its life. People with your attitude make me far too paranoid to go anywhere near a child. I used to work in a paediatric ward, but would never do so now, as people like you would accuse me of being a paedophile.

just to knock your prejudices and preconceived notions on the head here, garro is not a woman.

[GuestHouse]

But just what media that supposedly promotes an anti-PC message "are also those that pump out the message that Pedophiles are hiding around every corner?" You keep asking for links, so now I am asking you for some.

'Daily Mail, UK'.

'Express Newspaper, UK'

'The Sun, UK'

[bonobo]

But just what media that supposedly promotes an anti-PC message "are also those that pump out the message that Pedophiles are hiding around every corner?" You keep asking for links, so now I am asking you for some.

'Daily Mail, UK'.

'Express Newspaper, UK'

'The Sun, UK'

Like I wrote, how about some examples?  Naming a newspaper is hardly an example.

[thaibeachlovers]

OK, the ACTUAL/ UNREPORTED number not known, but reported/ prosecuted mainly known to the abused.

Whom were your friends all groped by? Stranger adults, adult relatives, siblings, schoolfriends? It makes a difference!

I pity you, assuming ALL men are perverts. What a paranoid life. Perhaps you should not have had children, if the world is such a terrible place. What will you do when they are old enough to want to go off on their own? Lock them up?

The way western women are paranoid about men is a frequent and topical discussion subject by most western men ( that I know or have met ).

BTW, you don't need to worry about me touching your child. Even lying bleeding to death, I will get a female to save its life. People with your attitude make me far too paranoid to go anywhere near a child. I used to work in a paediatric ward, but would never do so now, as people like you would accuse me of being a paedophile.

just to knock your prejudices and preconceived notions on the head here, garro is not a woman.

I hadn't assumed that he was.

As to his last reply, perhaps I was being a bit "over the top" in appearing to say that I would actually let the child die. I really meant that if there was a female present, I would get her to do the first aid, rather than myself. If there was no one else about, of course I would do first aid.

I used to really enjoy working in Paeds, but that was in the days before PC ( oops, someone might read some ulterior motive into the fact that I enjoyed working with children. ). Now, I would be so paranoid about being accused of something improper, just doing my job, that it would be impossible to do the job properly. I can just imagine garro's reaction if he found me giving his child a bath. Horrors!

In my hospital, it is now forbidden for nurses ( even females ) to pacify distressed children after surgery by giving them a cuddle/ hug. Only essential touching is allowed. So even if the child is screaming, no comfort may be given! How totally bonkers is that!

It's not what people think of me that I care about; it's being accused in a court of law of molesting a child by a completely paranoid parent that I want to avoid.

Perhaps to solve the problem of perverts, all men should be castrated after they have done their duty and had their children! Then they can fulfill their proper function in life of working to pay for their ( ex ) wife to live the life she desires, with HER children, and not be tempted to run off to Thailand to meet nice, non PC women.

Edited December 25, 2008 by thaibeachlovers

[Super Hans]

As Phil Harries rightly pointed out, this is another example of Political Correctness being blamed for something which is nothing to do with Political Correctness.

No, again you are using the OPINION of other people as FACT. This is not the case. Phil Harries' post was as 'off the mark' a post as I've ever seen - it was too embarrassing to comment on, but in passing political correctness OPENS THE DOOR for excessive litigation.

Interestingly, the News Papers and Media that promotes an Anti-PC message are also those that pump out the message that Pedophiles are hiding around every corner.

Finally you make a decent point. However, you are out of date again - the News of the Screws, for instance, ran a recent campaign condemning schools who wouldn't allow their teacher's to change the soiled underwear of one of their primary kids.

Utter hypocrisy on the one hand, belated common sense on the other.

[Super Hans]

I dunno GH, you're a man of the world and widely travelled, don't you think that countries like mine ( UK ) have gone over the top to accomodate others whilst forgetting their own heritage, their own people, in favour of people of different faiths ?

I have often observed something. Those people that are most in favour of preserving the heritage and culture of others' are often the least willing to preserve their own heritage and culture. In conjunction, they tend to gloss over the failings in other cultures, whilst joyously highlighting their own country's failings.

I have come to the conclusion that there are many people who are ashamed of being born white, male and western.

BTW, GuestHouse IS well traveled. He seems to spend a lot of time either in picture postcard rural England, or propping up repressive, murdering, regimes for huge amounts of personal financial gain. He then has the audacity to lecture those of us living in the gutter about political correctness!

Edited December 25, 2008 by Super Hans

[Super Hans]

But just what media that supposedly promotes an anti-PC message "are also those that pump out the message that Pedophiles are hiding around every corner?" You keep asking for links, so now I am asking you for some.

'Daily Mail, UK'.

'Express Newspaper, UK'

'The Sun, UK'

Like I wrote, how about some examples?  Naming a newspaper is hardly an example.

It is undeniable that the UK red tops love a regular paedo chase - no need for examples. This led to a very well known case where a Paediatrician had her house firebombed in Portsmouth, I think.

Hyping fear like this has led to the situation described by thaibeachlovers.

[Super Hans]

Perhaps to solve the problem of perverts, all men should be castrated after they have done their duty and had their children! Then they can fulfill their proper function in life of working to pay for their ( ex ) wife to live the life she desires, with HER children, and not be tempted to run off to Thailand to meet nice, non PC women.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Thousands of disenfranchised western males pour to Thailand each year, looking to find non western women. I wonder why.

[Super Hans]

So now we have the anti-PC'ers claiming that the PC movement is responsible for the fear adults have of touching children and the demise of good old Santa Claus.

Are these people on drugs? The PC movement has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. This is purely down to the fact that there are a lot of perverts out in the world plus there are a lot of litigeneous (?) folks just looking for a reason to sue somebody. Organisations that set up public events these days have to be so bluddy careful regarding safety etc and carry huge insurance against all manner of threats it is becoming just not worth the effort nor expense.

This has nothing to do with PC nor, as the bleating flock would have it, the "nanny state". It's all, specifically focussing on the PC anti Santa claims, to do with the number of sex offenders being put back into society without the necessary controls. This is nothing to do with PC but is a result of years of liberal policies towards criminals of all types and government's cost cutting measures to reduce prison populations. So don't blame PC'ness for it, if anybody blame the human rights movement and their focus on the rights of the criminal over those of the victims.

And don't blame the "nanny state", go look in the mirror. It is YOU the people who raise litigation because YOU couldn't pick your feet up and tripped over that paving slab. It is YOU the parents who abdicate from your responsibility for looking after YOUR children. [Excuse the off topic rant]

But of course the rabid anti-PC element won't have that preferring to blame anybody else but themselves for their woes. I'm a little surprised they haven't blamed global warming and the financial meltdown on PC yet.

I used to be anti-PC myself and have let loose some tirades against the actions of those who represent the movement. I still am anti some of the excesses but have come to realise that most of the examples of PC extremism are nothing more than one individual overstepping the mark or a newshound on a slow news day.

Don't believe everything you read in the SUN or the DAILY EXPRESS.

Rubbish! PC is a state of mind, that has caused ( IMO ) people, mainly women, to regard single men with suspicion. Why else do women ASSUME that because a man is looking at them that he wants to have sex with them ( there has been another thread about this subject, so won't elaborate )? Why am I subjected to harrasment at the airport because they ASSUME I am a paedophile ( with no record or evidence )? Why do mothers ASSUME that any man who looks at their children want to abuse them? Why do the courts ASSUME that mothers make better parents than fathers?

IMO it's all part of the PC attitude, and is nothing to do with litigation. None of the cases above would involve litigation.

As for your claim that there are a "lot of perverts out there"; what are your statistics? Out of 6 billion people on earth, how many are perverts? You don't know, but you are contributing to the hysteria about perverts in the community. Fact- most child abuse is carried out by people who know the child- relatives!

The number of assaults by strangers is miniscule. Yet the FEAR of being accused is driving people to live paranoid lives. Yes, some fathers do fear being accused of inapropriate behaviour if they hug their children. Now that really is a "sick society"!

Being PC is also about other stuff of course, but IMO, the above is the worst effect of being a PC society.

The percentage of the population which are involved in this activity is unknown. The number of unreported cases is unknown. So how do you know that it is mostly committed by relatives? Almost all of my friends admit to at least being groped as a kid.

In the past this abuse was hidden away and offenders knew that chances are they would get away with it. People did not take the claims seriously and accused those making them of being hysterical. There were similar claims to what you are making about how it all was exaggerated.

Now it may not suit you that grown-ups have to be more cautious around children, but I think that it is a great step forward. I have worked with young children and now work with older children. In my last occupation there were many precautions taken to safeguard the children and even though these safeguards could be inconvenient I supported them 100%. My sympathy is far more with the child than the person who misses been able to touch kids he doesn't know. If a stranger wants to touch my child he better have a good reason.

As far as your comments about western woman. I have never noticed the claims that you are making against them.

Your final sentence has already been answered by UG.

Erm, former Home Office crime statistician here - the vast majority of abuse IS perpetrated by the victim's relatives. Instances of paedophilia is falling, as fear caused by mass hysteria is rising.

Almost all your friends were groped as children? Are they for real??? Statistically speaking, it would be AMAZING for more than, say, two victims to become friends later in life. I have often mused that uberPC types have a tendency to invent or distort their past in order to prove their current day prejudices.

[GuestHouse]

Bonobo, the examples I have given seem to have satisfied others in the discussion. I'd not go as far to recommend you take a subscription with the 'Red Tops', but do take not how oftain they pop up elsewhere in this discussion - not for no good reason I assure you.

BTW, GuestHouse IS well traveled. He seems to spend a lot of time either in picture postcard rural England, or propping up repressive, murdering, regimes for huge amounts of personal financial gain. He then has the audacity to lecture those of us living in the gutter about political correctness!

I don't spend nearly enough time here in 'picture postcard rural England', and I'd venture that your energy spending habbits do as much to support any of the regimes you acuse me of supporting. If you live in the gutter, and I'm taking your word on that, then I can only assume that you made the choices that achieved that end. If you do not like living in the gutter, then get over the idea that spite and envy are your route out of it.

I'm, on the whole, happy with the choices I have made, I really and truly would like to be able to hear you are happy with yours. It seems afteral we both started on more or less the same footing.

[garro]

So now we have the anti-PC'ers claiming that the PC movement is responsible for the fear adults have of touching children and the demise of good old Santa Claus.

Are these people on drugs? The PC movement has nothing whatsoever to do with this issue. This is purely down to the fact that there are a lot of perverts out in the world plus there are a lot of litigeneous (?) folks just looking for a reason to sue somebody. Organisations that set up public events these days have to be so bluddy careful regarding safety etc and carry huge insurance against all manner of threats it is becoming just not worth the effort nor expense.

This has nothing to do with PC nor, as the bleating flock would have it, the "nanny state". It's all, specifically focussing on the PC anti Santa claims, to do with the number of sex offenders being put back into society without the necessary controls. This is nothing to do with PC but is a result of years of liberal policies towards criminals of all types and government's cost cutting measures to reduce prison populations. So don't blame PC'ness for it, if anybody blame the human rights movement and their focus on the rights of the criminal over those of the victims.

And don't blame the "nanny state", go look in the mirror. It is YOU the people who raise litigation because YOU couldn't pick your feet up and tripped over that paving slab. It is YOU the parents who abdicate from your responsibility for looking after YOUR children. [Excuse the off topic rant]

But of course the rabid anti-PC element won't have that preferring to blame anybody else but themselves for their woes. I'm a little surprised they haven't blamed global warming and the financial meltdown on PC yet.

I used to be anti-PC myself and have let loose some tirades against the actions of those who represent the movement. I still am anti some of the excesses but have come to realise that most of the examples of PC extremism are nothing more than one individual overstepping the mark or a newshound on a slow news day.

Don't believe everything you read in the SUN or the DAILY EXPRESS.

Rubbish! PC is a state of mind, that has caused ( IMO ) people, mainly women, to regard single men with suspicion. Why else do women ASSUME that because a man is looking at them that he wants to have sex with them ( there has been another thread about this subject, so won't elaborate )? Why am I subjected to harrasment at the airport because they ASSUME I am a paedophile ( with no record or evidence )? Why do mothers ASSUME that any man who looks at their children want to abuse them? Why do the courts ASSUME that mothers make better parents than fathers?

IMO it's all part of the PC attitude, and is nothing to do with litigation. None of the cases above would involve litigation.

As for your claim that there are a "lot of perverts out there"; what are your statistics? Out of 6 billion people on earth, how many are perverts? You don't know, but you are contributing to the hysteria about perverts in the community. Fact- most child abuse is carried out by people who know the child- relatives!

The number of assaults by strangers is miniscule. Yet the FEAR of being accused is driving people to live paranoid lives. Yes, some fathers do fear being accused of inapropriate behaviour if they hug their children. Now that really is a "sick society"!

Being PC is also about other stuff of course, but IMO, the above is the worst effect of being a PC society.

The percentage of the population which are involved in this activity is unknown. The number of unreported cases is unknown. So how do you know that it is mostly committed by relatives? Almost all of my friends admit to at least being groped as a kid.

In the past this abuse was hidden away and offenders knew that chances are they would get away with it. People did not take the claims seriously and accused those making them of being hysterical. There were similar claims to what you are making about how it all was exaggerated.

Now it may not suit you that grown-ups have to be more cautious around children, but I think that it is a great step forward. I have worked with young children and now work with older children. In my last occupation there were many precautions taken to safeguard the children and even though these safeguards could be inconvenient I supported them 100%. My sympathy is far more with the child than the person who misses been able to touch kids he doesn't know. If a stranger wants to touch my child he better have a good reason.

As far as your comments about western woman. I have never noticed the claims that you are making against them.

Your final sentence has already been answered by UG.

Erm, former Home Office crime statistician here - the vast majority of abuse IS perpetrated by the victim's relatives. Instances of paedophilia is falling, as fear caused by mass hysteria is rising.

Almost all your friends were groped as children? Are they for real??? Statistically speaking, it would be AMAZING for more than, say, two victims to become friends later in life. I have often mused that uberPC types have a tendency to invent or distort their past in order to prove their current day prejudices.

Oh, a Home Office Crime statistician - just like CSI. No, if your statistics are correct then the vast majority of known abuse is perpetrated by relatives. The idea that these people only abuse relatives is absurd.

So let me get this straight. The claim is that PC in the modern world is the cause of mass hysteria leading to increase reports of child abuse. Yet, you have just admitted that reports of child abuse is falling. Now it does not take a statistician to see the implication here does it? Increased public concern is leading to what? or if the west is going uberPC and reports of child abuse is falling what would that imply?

As for my friends and your statistics? Well, again if your statistics are correct then the chances are low that two of my friends would be people who reported child abuse so that it would show up in statistics. I would guess though that most people would be a bit fearful of going through the whole legal process to report someone groping them.

Edited December 25, 2008 by garro

[garro]

I dunno GH, you're a man of the world and widely travelled, don't you think that countries like mine ( UK ) have gone over the top to accomodate others whilst forgetting their own heritage, their own people, in favour of people of different faiths ?

I have often observed something. Those people that are most in favour of preserving the heritage and culture of others' are often the least willing to preserve their own heritage and culture. In conjunction, they tend to gloss over the failings in other cultures, whilst joyously highlighting their own country's failings.

I have come to the conclusion that there are many people who are ashamed of being born white, male and western.

BTW, GuestHouse IS well traveled. He seems to spend a lot of time either in picture postcard rural England, or propping up repressive, murdering, regimes for huge amounts of personal financial gain. He then has the audacity to lecture those of us living in the gutter about political correctness!

The vast majority of Christmas traditions have nothing to do with Christians. Things like Christmas trees, gift-giving, holly, ivy, mistletoe, all come from the pagan festivals of our European forefathers; who like you probably felt a bit miffed at having their festivals altered and the names of things changed. The world changes and so do traditions. Paganism/druidism didn't last as the main religion in Europe so maybe Christianity won't either.

Edited December 25, 2008 by garro

[garro]

OK, the ACTUAL/ UNREPORTED number not known, but reported/ prosecuted mainly known to the abused.

Whom were your friends all groped by? Stranger adults, adult relatives, siblings, schoolfriends? It makes a difference!

I pity you, assuming ALL men are perverts. What a paranoid life. Perhaps you should not have had children, if the world is such a terrible place. What will you do when they are old enough to want to go off on their own? Lock them up?

The way western women are paranoid about men is a frequent and topical discussion subject by most western men ( that I know or have met ).

BTW, you don't need to worry about me touching your child. Even lying bleeding to death, I will get a female to save its life. People with your attitude make me far too paranoid to go anywhere near a child. I used to work in a paediatric ward, but would never do so now, as people like you would accuse me of being a paedophile.

just to knock your prejudices and preconceived notions on the head here, garro is not a woman.

I hadn't assumed that he was.

As to his last reply, perhaps I was being a bit "over the top" in appearing to say that I would actually let the child die. I really meant that if there was a female present, I would get her to do the first aid, rather than myself. If there was no one else about, of course I would do first aid.

I used to really enjoy working in Paeds, but that was in the days before PC ( oops, someone might read some ulterior motive into the fact that I enjoyed working with children. ). Now, I would be so paranoid about being accused of something improper, just doing my job, that it would be impossible to do the job properly. I can just imagine garro's reaction if he found me giving his child a bath. Horrors!

In my hospital, it is now forbidden for nurses ( even females ) to pacify distressed children after surgery by giving them a cuddle/ hug. Only essential touching is allowed. So even if the child is screaming, no comfort may be given! How totally bonkers is that!

It's not what people think of me that I care about; it's being accused in a court of law of molesting a child by a completely paranoid parent that I want to avoid.

Perhaps to solve the problem of perverts, all men should be castrated after they have done their duty and had their children! Then they can fulfill their proper function in life of working to pay for their ( ex ) wife to live the life she desires, with HER children, and not be tempted to run off to Thailand to meet nice, non PC women.

In any place where I have worked the parents are expected to accompany the child to the anaesthetic room until the the child is sedated. The parents are then in the recovery room when the child wakes up. In cases where the child is having a local anaesthetic the parents are allowed to scrub up and attend the whole procedure. There is no need for the nurses to hug the child as the parents are there for this purpose. I would imagine that from a child's point of view having a parent hug them is far more comforting than some stranger hugging them.

It should also be remembered that there is a very thin-line between hugging a child and restraining them.

Edited December 25, 2008 by garro

[PhilHarries]

As for your claim that there are a "lot of perverts out there"; what are your statistics? Out of 6 billion people on earth, how many are perverts? You don't know, but you are contributing to the hysteria about perverts in the community. Fact- most child abuse is carried out by people who know the child- relatives!

The number of assaults by strangers is miniscule. Yet the FEAR of being accused is driving people to live paranoid lives. Yes, some fathers do fear being accused of inapropriate behaviour if they hug their children. Now that really is a "sick society"!

Being PC is also about other stuff of course, but IMO, the above is the worst effect of being a PC society.

Your response is, quite frankly, mind numbing but this last bit takes the biscuit.

For starters I said there are a lot of perverts out there. I did not say the majority of people are perverts.

Then you, having dug your hole, outstrip yourself with this idea that only abuse carried out by strangers counts as perversion and that is miniscule.

Okay, you want to play the stats and evidence game so give me a credible link to one case where the biological father has been prosecuted for hugging his children (save maybe in a really acrimonious divorce case). You accuse me of contributing to the hysteria? I think you ought to go look in the mirror. Having asserted that the majority of child abuse is by relatives of the victims you then claim the relatives are in fact victims of the hysteria generated by people like me.

If it weren't so tragic your piece would be comical.

btw, if we assume out of the 60 billion people on Earth 50% are men and only men abuse kids (an assumption wide open to accusations of PC but let's keep it simple) and zero point one percent are pervs that gives us 3 million. That's a lot of people in my book but maybe a miniscule problem in your eyes.

btw#2, someone asked about the rewording of Christmas Carols to suit PC. Well this is on the Telegraph UK website.

Worst politically-correct Christmas carol named

A modern version of Joy to the World rewritten to remove references to Jesus has been voted the worst politically-correct carol by churchgoers.

The bowdlerised song, which replaces "Joy to the world, the Lord is come, Let earth receive her King" with the lines "Joy to the world, for peace shall come, Let this be our refrain" came out top of a poll hosted by Ship of Fools, the religious humour website.

Other Christmas favourites altered for the politically-correct age include O Come All Ye Faithful, with some congregations told to sing "O come in adoration" instead of "O come let us adore him", which is apparently considered too gender specific.

Hark the Herald Angels Sing has also been updated, with the line "Glory to the Christ child, bring" deemed more inclusive than "Glory to the newborn king".

The website's Steve Goddard said they were inspired to start the poll after dozens of readers complained that their local churches had made clumsy alterations to songbooks.

"We've all noticed the "new" words, grimaced, tried to remember what the original lines were, shaken our heads in bemusement, and politely carried on singing," he said.

"Theologically-modified carols will ring out everywhere this year. Innocents like king, man, son, virgin and Lord have been slaughtered to make carols more modern and inclusive. In some cases, entire verses have been rewritten."

He added: "How long will it be before we have to sing 'Oh Vertically Challenged Town of Bethlehem' because 'little' is perceived to be politically incorrect?"

There quite clearly is the extremism of PC that should be stamped on.

Source : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/christma...arol-named.html

[rgs2001uk]

I dunno GH, you're a man of the world and widely travelled, don't you think that countries like mine ( UK ) have gone over the top to accomodate others whilst forgetting their own heritage, their own people, in favour of people of different faiths ?

I have often observed something. Those people that are most in favour of preserving the heritage and culture of others' are often the least willing to preserve their own heritage and culture. In conjunction, they tend to gloss over the failings in other cultures, whilst joyously highlighting their own country's failings.

I have come to the conclusion that there are many people who are ashamed of being born white, male and western.

BTW, GuestHouse IS well traveled. He seems to spend a lot of time either in picture postcard rural England, or propping up repressive, murdering, regimes for huge amounts of personal financial gain. He then has the audacity to lecture those of us living in the gutter about political correctness!

The vast majority of Christmas traditions have nothing to do with Christians. Things like Christmas trees, gift-giving, holly, ivy, mistletoe, all come from the pagan festivals of our European forefathers; who like you probably felt a bit miffed at having their festivals altered and the names of things changed. The world changes and so do traditions. Paganism/druidism didn't last as the main religion in Europe so maybe Christianity won't either.

At last, a post by Garro I can agree with.

Also a very astute observation ( highlighted in red ).

For those interested from a historical and or academic point of view, the following may be of some help.

http://www.sacredconnections.co.uk/holylan...lticHistory.htm

[Pakboong]

IMO, PC is merely a place of refuge for under achievers. Over achievers need no such refuge.

[bkkjames]

IMO, PC is merely a place of refuge for under achievers. Over achievers need no such refuge.

the burning question is why are there so many monkeys / apes on the PC thread?

[garro]

IMO, PC is merely a place of refuge for under achievers. Over achievers need no such refuge.

That would depend on what they were trying to achieve in the first place. Our sense of achievement is reached through arriving at our own goals. Your sense of achievement might appear quite shallow and pointless to others.

[PhilHarries]

It is interesting to see the anti-PC fraternity attacking the movement and defending their own views from the standpoints of racists, sexists and perverts.

Any comment would be superfluous.

[Ulysses G.]

The PC folks seem to be regarded more as just general, all around liars!

[sbk]

Agree to disagree, or have a reasonable debate like adults, but drop the childish name-calling, thanks

[Ijustwannateach]

Bonobo, thanks for the interesting thoughts on the Dalits. But I'm rather disappointed that no one picked up my (admittedly indirect) point: what IS this 'political correctness?' If I am someone who espouses it, then how is it defined? In other words, is it something that anyone in the world can have (like the Indians) or is it only in English-speaking countries? Is it the same from country to country? If so or if not, how?

Personally I don't consider myself 'politically correct,' and I mainly see the phrase used in contexts in which someone reacts against being criticised for being insensitive or offensive towards various groups. Perhaps I *am* 'politically correct' and I simply am not familiar enough with the precise definition. So, can I please call on those who believe in 'political correctness' (whether for or against) to define it for us, and let's see if we are all talking about the same thing. I have the feeling that we're not, in which case the disagreement on this thread is simply about apples and oranges- or, otherwise, we'll know afterwards exactly what we're talking about.

I and other mods're rather bored with the cleanup operations, so any more name-calling and the party's over, I'm afraid.

[garro]

I would see political correctness as having two components. The first component is an attempt to use vocabulary which is not going to offend any group within society. The second component is legislation used to discourage those who would attempt to use speech or actions to increase hatred between groups.

[Ulysses G.]

Political correctness has a lot in common with Communism. The original idea sounded reasonable, but human beings with their own agenda perverted it into something evil.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Ijustwannateach]

But how would you define it, UG? If we are listening to someone speak, and I want to know if they are being 'PC,' how do I know? What kind of scale can I use, or characteristics can I look for?

For example, do you agree with Garro's definition above? If not, what do you think is wrong with that definition?

[bkkjames]

But how would you define it, UG? If we are listening to someone speak, and I want to know if they are being 'PC,' how do I know? What kind of scale can I use, or characteristics can I look for?

For example, do you agree with Garro's definition above? If not, what do you think is wrong with that definition?

How about the following - should clear this up....(hopefully)

Definitions of political correctness on the Web:

avoidance of expressions or actions that can be perceived to exclude or marginalize or insult people who are socially disadvantaged or ...

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Political correctness (adjectivally, politically correct; both forms commonly abbreviated to PC) is a term used to describe language, ideas, policies, or behavior seen as seeking to minimize offense to gender, racial, cultural, disabled, aged or other identity groups. ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

The concept that one has to shape their statements (if not their opinions) according to a certain political dogma, i.e. to be politically correct ...

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/political_correctness

Suppressing the expression of certain attitudes and the use of certain terms in the belief that they are too offensive or controversial.

www.slp.duq.edu/rentschler/ETHIC/Vocabulary.htm

A trend that wants to make everything fair, equal and just to all by suppressing thought, speech and practice in order to achieve that goal.

www.information-entertainment.com/Politics/polterms.html

(also politically correct, PC or PC) is a term used in English-speaking countries to describe real or perceived attempts to impose limits on the acceptable language and terms used in public discussion. ...

www.startsurfing.com/encyclopedia/p/o/l/Politically-correct.html