Tv Members And Political Correctness

[Boo]

Not at all. I wasn't actually addressing you personally

Oh ok, I must have misread this then

you PCers are preventing the wedge being driven

[DC1066]

Extraordinarily insulting and inflammatory posts have been deleted. If you cannot keep this from getting personal, nasty and abusive then warnings and suspensions will be handed out and the thread closed.

Might I suggest to all members concerned a re-read of the forum rules because I, for one, am getting mightily tired of having to remind a bunch of grown men how to mind their manners.

Gender and age specific - Is that PC

Yes - it's also factual.

I'm an Aardvark

[Super Hans]

Many of the people on this thread attacking PC assume, like I have at times, that the movement is trying to stop you having free thought and free speech. It is not an attempt to control those independant functions, as if it could. If you want to go around thinking of johnny foriegner as n****rs, c**ns, pakis or of women as broads, tarts, slags or feminazies you can. If you want to articulate those views vocally and publicly you can but if you do so via the various media channels those who you wish to denigrate have a right to recourse. You also might find that your circle of friends is drying up rapidly as people are becoming less endeared with that version of free speech.

The law does not prevent the act of murder, it merely provides a route of recourse to justice. If you want to call a black man a n****r go ahead but don't complain if he beats you to a pulp, either physically or through the courts.

There's also been claims that PC is stifling debate on such issues as immigration and integration. Utter bovine scatology! There is plenty of debate on those subjects but they tend to avoid using inflammatory terms like deigo's, wop's, gyppo's etc. If you wish to discuss these subjects using those terms you will find many an intellectual debating chamber in the public bars of back street pubs where you will find solace amongst kindred spirits.

Personally, I find all these terms rather offensive, and I have never used any of them in conversation unless we were discussing racism and the various associated terms.

However, I am somewhat curious as to your choice of what words had to be starred ("n*****r") and which ones were OK spelled out ("wop's"). Is there some sort of PC going on inside of PC here? As someone who is 1/4 Italian (English, German and Irish make up the rest), should I take offense or pride that "wop" is allowed to written out in full?

I never use any of these terms either - I never have - and I don't see anyone else posting here that seems to want to use them, but certain PC advocates keep implying that we are not PC because we are "ignorant racists" who delight in calling a black man a nig and miss the good old days when we used to lynch other races with impunity.

They don't seem to be able to come up with any decent examples from this thread, but they keep on slinging mud anyway.

I have no interest in calling anyone a "nigger". I just don't want to be forced into calling a 3 year old girl a

"womyn" as one poster has avocated on this very forum.

Spot on. Well said. It's a shame girlx hasn't posted on this thread - she seems quite happy with the word "girl".

[Super Hans]

Not at all. I wasn't actually addressing you personally

Oh ok, I must have misread this then

you PCers are preventing the wedge being driven

Oh <deleted>! "You" as in the general sense of the word. There's more than just you reading this you know!

[Super Hans]

Extraordinarily insulting and inflammatory posts have been deleted. If you cannot keep this from getting personal, nasty and abusive then warnings and suspensions will be handed out and the thread closed.

Might I suggest to all members concerned a re-read of the forum rules because I, for one, am getting mightily tired of having to remind a bunch of grown men how to mind their manners.

Gender and age specific - Is that PC

Yes - it's also factual.

I'm an Aardvark

No you're not. You're a bunch of grown men. Do as you're told.

[endure]

Extraordinarily insulting and inflammatory posts have been deleted. If you cannot keep this from getting personal, nasty and abusive then warnings and suspensions will be handed out and the thread closed.

Might I suggest to all members concerned a re-read of the forum rules because I, for one, am getting mightily tired of having to remind a bunch of grown men how to mind their manners.

Gender and age specific - Is that PC

Yes - it's also factual.

I'm an Aardvark

I did say "How do I know what? That the vast majority of posters in this thread are men? Or that they're grown? Or that they constitute a 'bunch' ?"

There's always room for an aardvark - especially if he's (you are a male aardvark?) getting the beer in

[DC1066]

Extraordinarily insulting and inflammatory posts have been deleted. If you cannot keep this from getting personal, nasty and abusive then warnings and suspensions will be handed out and the thread closed.

Might I suggest to all members concerned a re-read of the forum rules because I, for one, am getting mightily tired of having to remind a bunch of grown men how to mind their manners.

Gender and age specific - Is that PC

Yes - it's also factual.

I'm an Aardvark

I did say "How do I know what? That the vast majority of posters in this thread are men? Or that they're grown? Or that they constitute a 'bunch' ?"

There's always room for an aardvark - especially if he's (you are a male aardvark?) getting the beer in

My gender is of no relevance to this post - but as for getting the beers in - any excuse, no problem

Edited December 28, 2008 by DC1066

[GuestHouse]

Following this thread through its eternity,I personably find the views of posters proPC/OP to be of no revelence to the average reasonable minded populate.Given examples of PC excesses they/him still resort to argumentive responses without reasoning or explanations of beneficial effects relating to these factual instances.Has PC relates to a proportion of racial elements this subject will become involved within the topic.To coincide that all PC actions are to be accepted without question could be commendable to any radical organistion.Thus these/OP staunch PC totarians are of equal concern has any true racist/fascist activists.

Spud, the problem with all of that is, putting asside the banning of the term 'Golly <deleted>' we have not had any examples of Political Correctness causing any of the ills attributed to it. Time and time again what is claimed to be the fault of Political Correctness turns out to be nothing of the sort, or at best 'Creative Recollection'.

[Ulysses G.]

hmmm, yes you do "think" you are clever. How crass. Class is something you clearly have no clue about.

My post, as you clearly missed it, was a gentle but obviously far too subtle advice for you to not post as if you are stating fact, it is well known netiquette to prefix opinions with imo or I believe.

That is exactly the opposite of what one is taught to do when debating.

[bonobo]

Bonobo, if someone (perhaps yourself) links some event to Political Correctness when there is absolutely no evidence of Political Correctness having any part in the event then are you saying we should accept their claim that Political Correctness is to blame?

You have given us two glaringly obvious cases where you claim Political Correctness is to blame - The first the dismissal of a teacher [You claimed 'black and white' that the teacher was dismissed as a result of Political Correctness - She was not dismissed - period! ]. The second case you claim Political Correctness was to blame for a race hate crime that happened in the 60's - Again ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of Political Correctness having anything whatsoever to do with the Race Hate Crime.

Now you argue that your view of Political Correctness is Broader than mine. What else could you claim?

It's utter nonsense. Two shining examples of ZERO POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

---

UK Red Tops. I note that since I mentioned the UK Red Tops they've cropped up twice as sources of 'evidence of Political Correctness' - Saves me looking for Links eh?!

You know, you can continue to state things until you are blue in the face, but that does not turn that into fact. 

The teacher was dismissed, and she was criticized by some people using arguements which would now be considered PC arguements. Once again, for the umpteenth time, of course there were racial criticisms as well, and she suffered from racist-related actions. BUt that does not negate the fact that some people used PC arguements to criticize her.

And of course, the hate crime was conducted by racists. They criminals were KKK, for goodness sakes! However, the question was whether PC actions can result in crimes. And in this case, it was the evil, misbegotten men who could not accept the civil rights movement.  When faced with it, they lashed out as weak people sometimes do. This is not the "fault' of the civil rights movement or the men who were so brutally murdered. It is the fault of the racists. And no reasonable person would say this murder was caused by PC people. But it is a a result of the civil rights movement (which many posters have encompassed as part of the PC question.) Throughout history, there have been many people killed in the pursuit of a greater good. THis is an unfortunate aspect of human history.

And yes, I have certainly expressed a broader acceptance of just what is PC in this thread than you have. So based on posts, I would contend that my claim would be a logical conclusion, and unless you stop merely criticizing others posts and offer something new, I won't see any reason to change my opinion on that.

[bonobo]

Following this thread through its eternity,I personably find the views of posters proPC/OP to be of no revelence to the average reasonable minded populate.Given examples of PC excesses they/him still resort to argumentive responses without reasoning or explanations of beneficial effects relating to these factual instances.Has PC relates to a proportion of racial elements this subject will become involved within the topic.To coincide that all PC actions are to be accepted without question could be commendable to any radical organistion.Thus these/OP staunch PC totarians are of equal concern has any true racist/fascist activists.

Spud, the problem with all of that is, putting asside the banning of the term 'Golly <deleted>' we have not had any examples of Political Correctness causing any of the ills attributed to it. Time and time again what is claimed to be the fault of Political Correctness turns out to be nothing of the sort, or at best 'Creative Recollection'.

This post is a pretty good example of "creative recollection" in and of itself.  

[bonobo]

It seems to me that there are three types of posters here:

Type 1--PC is the pretty much perfect and there is nothing wrong with it at all

Type 2--PC is generally a good thing, but like with anything, there can be excesses (I fall into this category).

Type 3--PC is a negative which has hurt society.

I am not sure what to make of that, but this is merely an observation.

[Lite Beer]

Post refering to Moderation and the answer to it deleted.

One more breach of Forum rules and this will be closed.

[bonobo]

I have to admit to a degree of naivite. Before reading the 700-plus posts in this thread, I rather thought that most people who would have anything negative to say about PC were merely expressing their dissatisfaction with the way it is implemented or with some extreme views. It never occured to me that some people seemingly have racist/sexist/whateverist views and use the anti-PC platform to justify their expression of those views. And this, I think, is wrong. Any form of predjudice in detrimental to a smooth and proficient functioning of society. And some posters here do seem to have some deep-seated prejudices which they seemingly long to express here.

But that does not mean that anyone who expresses any criticism of PC is in fact racist/sexist/ageist/whateverist. In fact, most of the "anti-PC'ers" posting regularly here seem to go out of their way to state that prejudice is wrong.

Much depends on how you interpret "PC." If you stick to PC only being anti-racist, then I think it is hard to criticize it. But we have had posters who equate PC from everything to keeping gays from being criminally assaulted to being searched for child porn at the airport to not allowing discussion on Islamic assimilation in the UK.

No one has seemingly agreed with me, but I think being PC is doing or saying things which you would not normally do. If I personally do not use a racial epithet, then my not doing so has nothing to do with being "politically" correct, but rather just being myself or just being "correct." However, if I normally use such an epithet in the privacy of my house, then choose not to in public, then I am making a "political" decision, then I am being PC. And while that is a step in the right direction, I would rather more people would be correct instead of just politically correct.

Example after example has been given where the PC movement may have gone too far. I objected when I found out in this thread that there was a Muslim woman helping out Robin Hood in the BBC series, for example, as being rather historricaly inaccurate (but then again, I really felt that The Last Samurai certainly did not need to be told through the eyes of Tom Cruise's US Civil War veteran as well, as if white American audiences could not relate unless there was a white man in the film.) But this is only a minor annoyance when compared to the harm done to actions which the PC movement is supposed to help fight. And while not being able to teach religion in elementary school due to PC concerns is harmful, I would say teaching prejudice, as has happened in the past, is more harmful.

However, a few of the pro-PC crowd posting here have shown why many people look down upon the PC movement. There has been a pronounced holier-than-thou attitude expressed here and a resolute inability to ever admit that someone with an opposing view might be correct, even in the tiniest, most minute case. No one likes to be preached to, and that turns people away, even if much of what is being preached is in fact reasonable.

Personally, I have shifted my views somewhat as a result of reading various posts here, and for that I am grateful. I have also bulit up a feeling of disdain for a few members posting here, and that is sad. I believe there is more to a person them merely some electrons passed back and forth, and I am personally sad that I have let mere words create disdain for anyone. I would like to think I am bigger than that, but maybe I am not.

Edited December 29, 2008 by bonobo

[GuestHouse]

You know, you can continue to state things until you are blue in the face, but that does not turn that into fact.

The teacher was dismissed

[Whispers so as not to stirr emotions] She was not dismissed... Go read the article you posted.

No one has seemingly agreed with me, but I think being PC is doing or saying things which you would not normally do.

It is then perhaps to your credit that Political Correctness does not cause you to change your language or expression, but as you note above it is seen by others as removing their 'right' to express various 'isms' - certainly not restricted to racism, but that together with some disturbing views on women is a major component of the views expressed here in this thread.

Political Correctness has, as testiffied in this thread, brought an end to the common usage of the language of hate, segregation, prejudice. It has gone against what was normally being said and caused people to take responsibility for the language they use. There is still work to be done on that front, but on the whole it has been a very effective tool. You state that you personally use language with respect, I absolutely accept that you do. I believe that, while perhaps not in your case, but in general Political Correctness has brought about this understanding of the need for respect in the use of language.

Your attributing the actions of racist thugs as a reaction to Political Correctness is scurillous - They chose to murder because they where filled with hate. I only wonder what use of language they were brought up with and used as 'normal' in their daily life.

[bonobo]

You know, you can continue to state things until you are blue in the face, but that does not turn that into fact.

The teacher was dismissed

[Whispers so as not to stirr emotions] She was not dismissed... Go read the article you posted.

On the documentary I saw, and on a local news follow-up, her superintendant said that while he personally supported her, there was friction between her and the other teachers in addition to parents, so it was best that she pursue another career. But I will e-mail a friend of mine who has access to the Iowa educational scene and ask for some insight on this situation.

Political Correctness has, as testiffied in this thread, brought an end to the common usage of the language of hate, segregation, prejudice.

You testimony does not make it a fact. I contend that PC undoubtedly assisted in combating this kind of usage, it is not the end-all tool which brought about the reduction. I rather think that the people who have gone out on a limb to fight various inequalities have had a much greater affect on the situation.

When I was a kid, I was taught that Malcom X was a Nation of Islam radical who was trying to use violence to bring down the USA. This was the "PC" ideology of the time. Yet as I have studied his life, I have found that while he may have been quite radical in his desire for racial equality, he was not the demonized man he was represented to be, (and his death at the hands of of the Nation of Islam probably had complicit assistance from other organizations.) I think people like Malcom X and Dr. Martin Luther King had much more to do with racial equality than the belated arrival of PC some two decades later. PC is much more a syptom than a cause, in my opinion.

Your attributing the actions of racist thugs as a reaction to Political Correctness is scurillous - They chose to murder because they where filled with hate. I only wonder what use of language they were brought up with and used as 'normal' in their daily life.

Scurillous? Tell me how, pray tell? People react when they feel they are losing control, losing power. Is this really hard to grasp? The fight for racial equality was and is a noble cause, but because of it, the thugs reacted violently and murdered those civil rights workers. Nowhere did I write that it was justified. Nowhere did I write that anyone having anyting to do with what we now call PC killed them. The question was if PC has ever resulted in violence. Not if PC committed violence.

I would say that being a social worker for a cause is genrally a good thing. And most social workers are good people. But it can result in violence. When an American volunteer to combat HIV in the RSA was necklaced because of her presence in a slum, despite the fact that she was doing good, her social work resulted in her death, in violence. She was not a fault. I know this is not a PC example, but maybe the analogy could open a closed door in your mind?

[GuestHouse]

Scurillious because it is an argument denying the perpetrators of a crime commited the crime because of their own motives and because Political Correctness is no where mentioned in the Wiki article to which you refer us. It is in truth a Conclusion you have come to and now seek to fix the evidence to suit the conclusion.

With respect to the 'testiment' I mention above, I am not referring to my own testiment, but that volunteered by others on the Anti PC side of the debate, there are numerous examples of people relating Political Correctness to issues of race, imigration, women etc. A number of the more offensive posts have quite rightly been removed.

[PhilHarries]

It is true there are occasional TV programs discussing immigration, but that is a one-way media. Where hearts and minds are won - pubs, obviously - it is not a discussion that can ever be held openly.

Have you ever been in a British pub? If you have it must have been on the set of one of those soap operas. It certainly wasn't one of the thousands, as the remains of my liver will testify, of pubs all over the UK I have drunk in. In fact my the conversation in my old local regularly used terms the most rabid anti-PC person on thiis thread would blanche at. And that was in the lounge bar .

If you are going to post about something of which you know nothing I'd suggest flyting. You might be on safe ground there.

[bonobo]

Scurillious because it is an argument denying the perpetrators of a crime commited the crime because of their own motives and because Political Correctness is no where mentioned in the Wiki article to which you refer us. It is in truth a Conclusion you have come to and now seek to fix the evidence to suit the conclusion.

Uh, it would be hard to mention PC when the term did not exist when the crimes were committed. And of course the perpetrators commited the crimes because of their own motives. Why else does anyone commit a crime? So how exactly am I denying that? And I have never written that they perpetrated the crimes in the name of PC. I wrote in response to a question whether PC can lead to violence.

Arresting a drunk driver is a good thing, something which every police officer should do. But sometimes, that can lead to violence when a drunk driver fights back or even kills the officer trying to make the arrest. That does not mean that officers should stop arresting drunk drivers. All that means is that doing so can lead to violence, and officers should take that into consideration (for their own safety as well as that of the drunk driver) when they make their arrests.

It is rather amazing to me that you can be so obtuse about this, especially as it does no damage to your basic arguments for PC. Actually, I rather think it makes the argument that PC should be more pronounced.

[PhilHarries]

Might I suggest to all members concerned a re-read of the forum rules because I, for one, am getting mightily tired of having to remind a bunch of grown men how to mind their manners.

Steady on sbk, now that is stretching a point and could attract a comment asking for statistical back up or a source to support such an outrageous claim.

I did forget in my earlier niaive statement on the conduct to include a complimentary reference to the moderator's tolerance and latitude in letting this thread get this far.

[PhilHarries]

It seems to me that there are three types of posters here:

Type 1--PC is the pretty much perfect and there is nothing wrong with it at all

Type 2--PC is generally a good thing, but like with anything, there can be excesses (I fall into this category).

Type 3--PC is a negative which has hurt society.

I am not sure what to make of that, but this is merely an observation.

I'll joing you in category 2, the following being a classic example where PC extremism IS likely to cause actual problems and possibly put lives in danger.

Spud, the problem with all of that is, putting asside the banning of the term 'Golly <deleted>' we have not had any examples of Political Correctness causing any of the ills attributed to it.

I don't know what ills you refer to but putting people's lives in danger must be top of the list.

Politically correct brigade demands one woman on each fire engine

Fire engines will have to have at least one firewoman on board in order to meet diversity guidelines, town hall leaders claim.

The Local Government Association (LGA) has said that at at least 15 per cent of those in operational roles should be female.

That means they will fill one of the five or six places for crew on each engine.

The LGA said an increased number of firewomen is necessary "to meet the needs of local people".

But critics warned that political correctness was being put above the ability to save lives.

Susie Squire, of the Taxpayers' Alliance, said: "Introducing this sort of quota to the fire service is a big mistake.

"If ever there was a job that should be awarded on merit and physical fitness, it is that of a firefighter.

"This quota system will not only cost taxpayers money by introducing additional and unnecessary administration, but could risk the safety of all of us in the long run."

At present fewer than one in ten firefighters are female.

In future local councillors who are appointed to serve on the fire authorities will be asked to sign up to the "diversity charter".

One of the pledges they are expected to make is to "work to achieve recruitment targets of at least 15 per cent for women in operational roles".

Anthony Duggan, head of fire services at the LGA, said: "The fire service needs to be representative of the area it serves.

"It is important that the fire service attracts more women and ethnic minorities so that it can work more effectively in partnership with local authorities and other organisations to meet the needs of local people."

Source : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...ire-engine.html

Okay the source is a newspaper and even though the Telegraph has gone downhill and can be accused of political bias it is not one of the gutter rags.

Now nobody is saying women can't, or shouldn't, do the job but their selection should be based entirely 100% on their physical and mental ability to do the job. As said above you absolutely cannot impose a quota based on any guidelines let alone those imposed by non-elected NGO's and their minor political hangers on.

Chances are this will get squashed by people who have a brain but it's too late, the damage is done and the anti-PC element have their ammunition. People who come up with sh1t like this are an insult to the skin they inhabit and the movement the so vehemently espouse.

btw I'm not blatantly trying to get my post count up. It's just that last night I picked up on a point I wanted to take issue on but couldn't find it when I went back to quote it. So tonight I've replied as I went.

Okay, you got me. I'm just getting my post count up.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't know what ills you refer to but putting people's lives in danger must be top of the list.

Politically correct brigade demands one woman on each fire engine

Fire engines will have to have at least one firewoman on board in order to meet diversity guidelines, town hall leaders claim.

The Local Government Association (LGA) has said that at at least 15 per cent of those in operational roles should be female.

That means they will fill one of the five or six places for crew on each engine.

The LGA said an increased number of firewomen is necessary "to meet the needs of local people".

But critics warned that political correctness was being put above the ability to save lives.

Susie Squire, of the Taxpayers' Alliance, said: "Introducing this sort of quota to the fire service is a big mistake.

"If ever there was a job that should be awarded on merit and physical fitness, it is that of a firefighter.

"This quota system will not only cost taxpayers money by introducing additional and unnecessary administration, but could risk the safety of all of us in the long run."

At present fewer than one in ten firefighters are female.

In future local councillors who are appointed to serve on the fire authorities will be asked to sign up to the "diversity charter".

One of the pledges they are expected to make is to "work to achieve recruitment targets of at least 15 per cent for women in operational roles".

Anthony Duggan, head of fire services at the LGA, said: "The fire service needs to be representative of the area it serves.

"It is important that the fire service attracts more women and ethnic minorities so that it can work more effectively in partnership with local authorities and other organisations to meet the needs of local people."

Source : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...ire-engine.html

Despite the claims of the big PC Honchos on TV, very few of us have any desire to call racial and religious minority’s bad names. This is exactly the kind of PC silliness that we are objecting to.

[Super Hans]

It is true there are occasional TV programs discussing immigration, but that is a one-way media. Where hearts and minds are won - pubs, obviously - it is not a discussion that can ever be held openly.

Have you ever been in a British pub? If you have it must have been on the set of one of those soap operas. It certainly wasn't one of the thousands, as the remains of my liver will testify, of pubs all over the UK I have drunk in. In fact my the conversation in my old local regularly used terms the most rabid anti-PC person on thiis thread would blanche at. And that was in the lounge bar .

If you are going to post about something of which you know nothing I'd suggest flyting. You might be on safe ground there.

What is flyting? I really hope you meant something better than 'flying', which would be a pun too risible to comment on.

As ever, you miss the point. The discussion in pubs is not a free and open debate. It is far more likely that there will be a small group of malcontents, who will be whispering their grievances to each other in darkened corners. There is no constructive discussion across crowded rooms.

The DEBATE must be had. Ironically, it's really up to the PC mob to initiate it. But they lack the guts, so it's the rest of us who have to put our necks on the lines: those of us that actually suffer from political correctness, rather than the idle rich, who can spend their time dreaming about an unworkable ideology.

There is one undeniable fact about the PC brigade: they lack balls.

[Super Hans]

Despite the claims of the big PC Honchos on TV, very few of us have any desire to call racial and religious minority’s bad names. This is exactly the kind of PC silliness that we are objecting to.

Society's must grow naturally. It is irksome in the extreme to see quotas, targets and the like imposed where they're just not needed. Above all, it's just so crass.

Am I alone in seeing political correctness as divisive? The desire to classify, label, pigeonhole, stratify...how is that going to eliminate our differences?

[garro]

It is true there are occasional TV programs discussing immigration, but that is a one-way media. Where hearts and minds are won - pubs, obviously - it is not a discussion that can ever be held openly.

Have you ever been in a British pub? If you have it must have been on the set of one of those soap operas. It certainly wasn't one of the thousands, as the remains of my liver will testify, of pubs all over the UK I have drunk in. In fact my the conversation in my old local regularly used terms the most rabid anti-PC person on thiis thread would blanche at. And that was in the lounge bar .

If you are going to post about something of which you know nothing I'd suggest flyting. You might be on safe ground there.

What is flyting? I really hope you meant something better than 'flying', which would be a pun too risible to comment on.

As ever, you miss the point. The discussion in pubs is not a free and open debate. It is far more likely that there will be a small group of malcontents, who will be whispering their grievances to each other in darkened corners. There is no constructive discussion across crowded rooms.

The DEBATE must be had. Ironically, it's really up to the PC mob to initiate it. But they lack the guts, so it's the rest of us who have to put our necks on the lines: those of us that actually suffer from political correctness, rather than the idle rich, who can spend their time dreaming about an unworkable ideology.

There is one undeniable fact about the PC brigade: they lack balls.

Spouting off on an anonymous internet forum might make people virtual warriors, but it does not prove that people have or haven't got balls.

You seem to be under some misconception that all those who are for the use of respectful language are wimps. You are wrong. At the end of the day you prove nothing here. Anyone can say things when there is no real comeback.

Free speech will not be stopped by political correctness but people should be prepared to pay the price when they cross the line. If they have the balls then they will say it regardless. You want to insult minority groups in public then you go for it but be ready to be punished.

All the so called extreme examples of PC are a smokescreen. These would be used as the humour at the end of a news broadcast if it wasn't for people manipulating and hiding behind these stories. Insults, misinformation and lies have been the main source of arguments for most of the anti-PC posts on this threads.

I am convinced that political correctness has made the world a better place, and I have already provided examples of this.

[sbk]

Might I suggest to all members concerned a re-read of the forum rules because I, for one, am getting mightily tired of having to remind a bunch of grown men how to mind their manners.

Steady on sbk, now that is stretching a point and could attract a comment asking for statistical back up or a source to support such an outrageous claim.

I did forget in my earlier niaive statement on the conduct to include a complimentary reference to the moderator's tolerance and latitude in letting this thread get this far.

You are right Phil. Perhaps it is an outrageous claim about the grown up part.

But the fact of the matter is, something like 89% of this forum's registered members who answered the poll last year are men. And reading through this thread, it is largely between men. Sure, Boo is female and, at least for the past few pages, she appears to be the only female involved. And, I must say, all of the posts that have been rude, insulting, offensive and generally getting personal and nasty rather than engaging in a civil debate, have been made by men.

So, despite the fact that some members feel the need to get personal, this thread has done quite well and, given a level of civil behavior and good manners, should be able to continue.

[Geekfreaklover]

It is true there are occasional TV programs discussing immigration, but that is a one-way media. Where hearts and minds are won - pubs, obviously - it is not a discussion that can ever be held openly.

Have you ever been in a British pub? If you have it must have been on the set of one of those soap operas. It certainly wasn't one of the thousands, as the remains of my liver will testify, of pubs all over the UK I have drunk in. In fact my the conversation in my old local regularly used terms the most rabid anti-PC person on thiis thread would blanche at. And that was in the lounge bar .

If you are going to post about something of which you know nothing I'd suggest flyting. You might be on safe ground there.

What is flyting? I really hope you meant something better than 'flying', which would be a pun too risible to comment on.

As ever, you miss the point. The discussion in pubs is not a free and open debate. It is far more likely that there will be a small group of malcontents, who will be whispering their grievances to each other in darkened corners. There is no constructive discussion across crowded rooms.

The DEBATE must be had. Ironically, it's really up to the PC mob to initiate it. But they lack the guts, so it's the rest of us who have to put our necks on the lines: those of us that actually suffer from political correctness, rather than the idle rich, who can spend their time dreaming about an unworkable ideology.

There is one undeniable fact about the PC brigade: they lack balls.

Spouting off on an anonymous internet forum might make people virtual warriors, but it does not prove that people have or haven't got balls.

You seem to be under some misconception that all those who are for the use of respectful language are wimps. You are wrong. At the end of the day you prove nothing here. Anyone can say things when there is no real comeback.

Free speech will not be stopped by political correctness but people should be prepared to pay the price when they cross the line. If they have the balls then they will say it regardless. You want to insult minority groups in public then you go for it but be ready to be punished.

All the so called extreme examples of PC are a smokescreen. These would be used as the humour at the end of a news broadcast if it wasn't for people manipulating and hiding behind these stories. Insults, misinformation and lies have been the main source of arguments for most of the anti-PC posts on this threads.

I am convinced that political correctness has made the world a better place, and I have already provided examples of this.

Please let this be the 'last escape' ... this topic has gone on far too long!!

[PhilHarries]

What is flyting? I really hope you meant something better than 'flying', which would be a pun too risible to comment on.

Professor Ferenc Szasz argued that so-called rap battles, where two or more performers trade elaborate insults, derive from the ancient Caledonian art of "flyting".

The Scots have a lengthy tradition of flyting - intense verbal jousting, often laced with vulgarity, that is similar to the dozens that one finds among contemporary inner-city African-American youth.

Source : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/3...-professor.html

So you have learnt something, as I did earlier.

Everyday we should srive to learn something new. Today we both have achieved that goal.

As ever, you miss the point. The discussion in pubs is not a free and open debate. It is far more likely that there will be a small group of malcontents, who will be whispering their grievances to each other in darkened corners. There is no constructive discussion across crowded rooms.

Not in The Fox, not whispering and not in darkened corners. I'm not sure I'd describe the discussion as constructive but it was certainly often across a crowded room.

The DEBATE must be had. Ironically, it's really up to the PC mob to initiate it. But they lack the guts, so it's the rest of us who have to put our necks on the lines: those of us that actually suffer from political correctness, rather than the idle rich, who can spend their time dreaming about an unworkable ideology.

There is one undeniable fact about the PC brigade: they lack balls.

Why is it you have to bring everything down to aggression? Can you not just put your point of view across without making baseless claims regarding the manhood of those you disagree with?

[bonobo]

 

I am convinced that political correctness has made the world a better place, and I have already provided examples of this.

Granted, and I wouild agree with you on this statement as written. But PC can be taken to excess with deleterious results, and some valid examples of this have been posted in this thread.

[garro]

It is true there are occasional TV programs discussing immigration, but that is a one-way media. Where hearts and minds are won - pubs, obviously - it is not a discussion that can ever be held openly.

Have you ever been in a British pub? If you have it must have been on the set of one of those soap operas. It certainly wasn't one of the thousands, as the remains of my liver will testify, of pubs all over the UK I have drunk in. In fact my the conversation in my old local regularly used terms the most rabid anti-PC person on thiis thread would blanche at. And that was in the lounge bar .

If you are going to post about something of which you know nothing I'd suggest flyting. You might be on safe ground there.

What is flyting? I really hope you meant something better than 'flying', which would be a pun too risible to comment on.

As ever, you miss the point. The discussion in pubs is not a free and open debate. It is far more likely that there will be a small group of malcontents, who will be whispering their grievances to each other in darkened corners. There is no constructive discussion across crowded rooms.

The DEBATE must be had. Ironically, it's really up to the PC mob to initiate it. But they lack the guts, so it's the rest of us who have to put our necks on the lines: those of us that actually suffer from political correctness, rather than the idle rich, who can spend their time dreaming about an unworkable ideology.

There is one undeniable fact about the PC brigade: they lack balls.

Spouting off on an anonymous internet forum might make people virtual warriors, but it does not prove that people have or haven't got balls.

You seem to be under some misconception that all those who are for the use of respectful language are wimps. You are wrong. At the end of the day you prove nothing here. Anyone can say things when there is no real comeback.

Free speech will not be stopped by political correctness but people should be prepared to pay the price when they cross the line. If they have the balls then they will say it regardless. You want to insult minority groups in public then you go for it but be ready to be punished.

All the so called extreme examples of PC are a smokescreen. These would be used as the humour at the end of a news broadcast if it wasn't for people manipulating and hiding behind these stories. Insults, misinformation and lies have been the main source of arguments for most of the anti-PC posts on this threads.

I am convinced that political correctness has made the world a better place, and I have already provided examples of this.

Please let this be the 'last escape' ... this topic has gone on far too long!!

You got that right.

Mind you, this has thread has probably giving some of the people here something to do in the evenings and losing it will be like losing a family member

Edited December 29, 2008 by garro