Abhisit Vejjajiva Elected New Prime Minister Of Thailand

[animatic]

The woman is a wife of a banned TRT exec, afaik.

Strange she didn't join PPP?

[henryalleman]

But, French President Françoise Mitterand had a mistress for 25 years,

with a grown child, commonly known, but NEVER mentioned in the press,

till she came to his funeral openly.

When it came out in the press the first time, Mitterand answered "Et Alors" and that was the end of it;

The present French president is divorced while he became president an re-married Carla Bruni a singer and foto model who even posed naked.

The French and European press never made an scandal about it

The Danish crown prince even married an divorced women who had a child.

Maybe thats why they call it an developted continent in the broad sense of the word.

Luckily in Continental Europe we judge politicians on there political work and not on there privat life.

So judge the new minister of comerce on her political merrits and not on her previous proffesional life.

[Plus]

Oh, my mistake again, it was the other woman minister from dissolved parties, not the mamasan.

Lots of local factions stayed with their leaders and didn't join PPP after the coup. Pua Paendin, Matchima, Ruam Jai - they were set up as vehicles to accomodate them.

[Thai at Heart]

But, French President Françoise Mitterand had a mistress for 25 years,

with a grown child, commonly known, but NEVER mentioned in the press,

till she came to his funeral openly.

When it came out in the press the first time, Mitterand answered "Et Alors" and that was the end of it;

The present French president is divorced while he became president an re-married Carla Bruni a singer and foto model who even posed naked.

The French and European press never made an scandal about it

The Danish crown prince even married an divorced women who had a child.

Maybe thats why they call it an developted continent in the broad sense of the word.

Luckily in Continental Europe we judge politicians on there political work and not on there privat life.

So judge the new minister of comerce on her political merrits and not on her previous proffesional life.

That is all very well, but running an institution of ill repute and gaining financial benefit from prostitution would in Europe also be classed as an illegal activity.

It is the laws in Thailand that create a massively grey area about running these types of places which go a long way to allowing them to proliferate in such massive quantity. Moral sets change people's perception, but many Thai's would judge running an establishment as this to be morally wrong.

[Guest Reimar]

(here comes an account suspension I can feel it)

No I posted a question to a moderator because I thought it would be "fun" to waste time, I don't think responding to people that ask a moderators advice in regards to the "cyber cops" in the manner in which you did is fitting of a moderator.

You posted a question to an Mod about something the Mod haven't posted! The poster of that Cyber Cops wasn't me but stoffel instead. And even if I know the answer, I wouldn't post it on an open Forum in an Country where the "censor" of internet is quite tight.

[Ulysses G.]

Moral sets change people's perception, but many Thai's would judge running an establishment as this to be morally wrong.

The same people would probably judge selling alcohol in the same manner, but many less prudish people would not agree with either.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Ricardo]

Moral sets change people's perception, but many Thai's would judge running an establishment as this to be morally wrong.

The same people would probably judge selling alcohol in the same manner, but many less prudish people would not agree with either.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Ricardo

[Thai at Heart]

Moral sets change people's perception, but many Thai's would judge running an establishment as this to be morally wrong.

The same people would probably judge selling alcohol in the same manner, but many less prudish people would not agree with either.

Absolutely.

When push comes to shove, Thailand can be an amazingly contradictory place. Us discussing it doesn't change the fact that she is in the parliament.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[TAWP]

I find it ironic that a libertarian with a supposed education can ignore the fact that many girls have no choice but to do this job.

Perhaps you could go an take the place of a couple of them if you think it so fun and free and innocent.

You and a fat sweating 15 stone drunk. repeat 4 or 5 times per day until you have enough money to pay for your childs/parents hospital needs or education or a loan to a shark from a brother or other relative.

You can be sure that the high end mamma san is not the one giving the orgasms! It's the poor wretches in her clutches that have to do that.

Please try being on the receiving end of sex tourists first before your next idiotic rant.

You have just proved how little you know with a post like this.

I didn't know you where a long term seller, my excuses. Your experience in selling do overshadow mine.

Care to tell me under what circumstance you where forced into this trade that made it impossible to perform any other job?

(Why does everyone assume that all girls and boys involved in the trade hate it so much?)

[Ulysses G.]

(Why does everyone assume that all girls and boys involved in the trade hate it so much?)

A good number of these workers enjoy it and like the money and others only like the money, but there are plenty of poor Thais who work hard and never even think about working in the sex trade. If they decide to sell their bodies, than they are as responsible as their customers for any bad karma - if indeed there is any.

[samgrowth]

But, French President Françoise Mitterand had a mistress for 25 years,

with a grown child, commonly known, but NEVER mentioned in the press,

till she came to his funeral openly.

When it came out in the press the first time, Mitterand answered "Et Alors" and that was the end of it;

The present French president is divorced while he became president an re-married Carla Bruni a singer and foto model who even posed naked.

The French and European press never made an scandal about it

The Danish crown prince even married an divorced women who had a child.

Maybe thats why they call it an developted continent in the broad sense of the word.

Luckily in Continental Europe we judge politicians on there political work and not on there privat life.

So judge the new minister of comerce on her political merrits and not on her previous proffesional life.

That is all very well, but running an institution of ill repute and gaining financial benefit from prostitution would in Europe also be classed as an illegal activity.

It is the laws in Thailand that create a massively grey area about running these types of places which go a long way to allowing them to proliferate in such massive quantity. Moral sets change people's perception, but many Thai's would judge running an establishment as this to be morally wrong.

Prostitution? That is a very strong word. Is there sex going on behind closed doors? All I know is that Poseidon is a Thai Massage place where you go to have your body massage.

I heard that legal sex service is not allowed by law in Thailand. Hence in all massage place in Thailand, a peep hole is installed in all massage room, so that police can have free peep show. However, no one breaks the law in Thailand, not even PAD, so the Thai police will have to pay for peep show in Soho if they wanted one. Anyway, pawn the Rolax (gifts from Chuwit) should be enough for the weekend London trip plus tips, and a bottle of Glen Ord or Bowmore Islay duty free on the way home.

Link for educational use only http://poseidon2000.com bangkok2night.com/massage/poseidon.shtml

[Bangyai]

stoffel Today, 2008-12-23 14:11:51 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Commerce-Min...33#entry2424933)

Chuvit Kamolvisit is an former Owner (mamasan) of an Massage Parlour Business as well and even an MP!

Wasn't you guys against everything and everyone but special against PAD that guys whos was telling many times that you had to be convicted to first? And now telling opposit?!

Nor Chuvit or Porntiwa were convicted of any crime in the past! They're innocent people until now!

And special Chuvit was investigated a lot and the officialos haven't found anything wrongdoing by him. Same is and would be happen by Porntiwa!

Even you guy's would noty accepting to be named a crime suspect because you're not convicted. How you can take the right to tell that about other people, about people yopu know from Media only and what's reported?!

According to the letter and book of law, all of you who're telling such story and naming people to be suspect of crime, are the one who breaked the law with that speaks already, openly on an open forum.

Luckly all of you having an Cyber-Name!

Have a nice day and do n ot forget that tyhere ia a cyber crime police as well!

Isn't that something you guy's should think about?

Cheers

Yes indeed. I have been thinking about it. I've also been looking at pictures and unless I'm very much mistaken, Chuvit is a man . Of course, everyone could be wrong about this because we've never had the chance to pull his underwear down and verify the fact.

But assuming he is a man.......wouldn't that make him a papasan rather than a mamasan ?

On the subject of massage parlours, well, is it really a criminal act to own or run one ? Seems a bit odd that it would be so considering the country is full of them

Then again,there are brothels and there are massage parlours. I always thought that the principle employees at a massage parlour were of legal age and had entered the ' trade ' of their own free will in order to make a lot more money than they might have selling noodles. Indeed , many of them end up very wealthy.

On the other hand, a brothel is likely to be a place where the women are held in virtual captivity until they pay off the loan their immoral parents have taken out or worse that they have been sold into as virtual slaves. This , I believe is against the law , given that police often raid these places, which they don't tend to do with ' ahb ob nooats ' where they are somtimes regular customers.

[Guest Reimar]

stoffel Today, 2008-12-23 14:11:51 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Commerce-Min...33#entry2424933)

Chuvit Kamolvisit is an former Owner (mamasan) of an Massage Parlour Business as well and even an MP!

Wasn't you guys against everything and everyone but special against PAD that guys whos was telling many times that you had to be convicted to first? And now telling opposit?!

Nor Chuvit or Porntiwa were convicted of any crime in the past! They're innocent people until now!

And special Chuvit was investigated a lot and the officialos haven't found anything wrongdoing by him. Same is and would be happen by Porntiwa!

Even you guy's would noty accepting to be named a crime suspect because you're not convicted. How you can take the right to tell that about other people, about people yopu know from Media only and what's reported?!

According to the letter and book of law, all of you who're telling such story and naming people to be suspect of crime, are the one who breaked the law with that speaks already, openly on an open forum.

Luckly all of you having an Cyber-Name!

Have a nice day and do n ot forget that tyhere ia a cyber crime police as well!

Isn't that something you guy's should think about?

Cheers

Yes indeed. I have been thinking about it. I've also been looking at pictures and unless I'm very much mistaken, Chuvit is a man . Of course, everyone could be wrong about this because we've never had the chance to pull his underwear down and verify the fact.

But assuming he is a man.......wouldn't that make him a papasan rather than a mamasan ?

On the subject of massage parlours, well, is it really a criminal act to own or run one ? Seems a bit odd that it would be so considering the country is full of them

Then again,there are brothels and there are massage parlours. I always thought that the principle employees at a massage parlour were of legal age and had entered the ' trade ' of their own free will in order to make a lot more money than they might have selling noodles. Indeed , many of them end up very wealthy.

On the other hand, a brothel is likely to be a place where the women are held in virtual captivity until they pay off the loan their immoral parents have taken out or worse that they have been sold into as virtual slaves. This , I believe is against the law , given that police often raid these places, which they don't tend to do with ' ahb ob nooats ' where they are somtimes regular customers.

You're absolutly right but maybe stoffel had mean that as a joke?!

Same applies for an "Pimp" which isn't a female and some posters on this forum were title the Commerce Minister K. Pornthawe as "Pimp"!

Funny isn't it?!

[Steve2UK]

You're absolutly right but maybe stoffel had mean that as a joke?!

Same applies for an "Pimp" which isn't a female and some posters on this forum were title the Commerce Minister K. Pornthawe as "Pimp"!

Funny isn't it?!

You're only nearly right, so it's not really so funny. "Pimp" is usually male - but not always.

"Most people who work managing prostitutes are men, but some women work in this capacity as well, though rarely in street prostitution. Women are rarely called pimps, as the word implies male dominance - a woman who manages prostitutes is generally called a mamasan or a madam."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimp

Mention of the Thai authorities' (shall we say) somewhat "ambivalent" attitude to such things reminded me of the classic scene from "Casablanca" :

Rick: How can you close me up? On what grounds?

Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]

Croupier: Your winnings, sir.

Captain Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.

[aloud]

Captain Renault: Everybody out at once!

(this clip is worth watching......... it includes some preceding dialogue between Captain Renault and Major Strasser that also reminded me of the general - no pun intended - political situation in Thailand)

Edited December 24, 2008 by Steve2UK

[Thai at Heart]

stoffel Today, 2008-12-23 14:11:51 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Commerce-Min...33#entry2424933)

Chuvit Kamolvisit is an former Owner (mamasan) of an Massage Parlour Business as well and even an MP!

Wasn't you guys against everything and everyone but special against PAD that guys whos was telling many times that you had to be convicted to first? And now telling opposit?!

Nor Chuvit or Porntiwa were convicted of any crime in the past! They're innocent people until now!

And special Chuvit was investigated a lot and the officialos haven't found anything wrongdoing by him. Same is and would be happen by Porntiwa!

Even you guy's would noty accepting to be named a crime suspect because you're not convicted. How you can take the right to tell that about other people, about people yopu know from Media only and what's reported?!

According to the letter and book of law, all of you who're telling such story and naming people to be suspect of crime, are the one who breaked the law with that speaks already, openly on an open forum.

Luckly all of you having an Cyber-Name!

Have a nice day and do n ot forget that tyhere ia a cyber crime police as well!

Isn't that something you guy's should think about?

Cheers

Yes indeed. I have been thinking about it. I've also been looking at pictures and unless I'm very much mistaken, Chuvit is a man . Of course, everyone could be wrong about this because we've never had the chance to pull his underwear down and verify the fact.

But assuming he is a man.......wouldn't that make him a papasan rather than a mamasan ?

On the subject of massage parlours, well, is it really a criminal act to own or run one ? Seems a bit odd that it would be so considering the country is full of them

Then again,there are brothels and there are massage parlours. I always thought that the principle employees at a massage parlour were of legal age and had entered the ' trade ' of their own free will in order to make a lot more money than they might have selling noodles. Indeed , many of them end up very wealthy.

On the other hand, a brothel is likely to be a place where the women are held in virtual captivity until they pay off the loan their immoral parents have taken out or worse that they have been sold into as virtual slaves. This , I believe is against the law , given that police often raid these places, which they don't tend to do with ' ahb ob nooats ' where they are somtimes regular customers.

And there we have the wonderful grey area of law in Thailand, whilst we will be regaled by the clothes police at Songkran about spaghetti tops, see thru white t-shirts, and hotpants

Edited December 24, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[Bangyai]

Mention of the Thai authorities' (shall we say) somewhat "ambivalent" attitude to such things reminded me of the classic scene from "Casablanca" :

Rick: How can you close me up? On what grounds?

Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]

Croupier: Your winnings, sir.

Captain Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.

[aloud]

Captain Renault: Everybody out at once!

(this clip is worth watching......... it includes some preceding dialogue between Captain Renault and Major Strasser that also reminded me of the general - no pun intended - political situation in Thailand)

Thanks for the link Steve. Pertinant clip from a great movie. Could never happen at Thermaes though ............. could it ? Govournment house......maybe.

[Wiresok]

The issue regards a Mamasam in government is not about "legality" , but about who has been visiting ?

Who has the dirt on who ?

[marshbags]

Bangkok post, Breakingnews, 24/12/2008 at 04:54 PM

No Thaksin this Christmas

By: BangkokPost.com Published: 24/12/2008 at 04:54 PM

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not return to Thailand on Thursday as the media speculated, according to Mr Thaksin's personal spokesman Pongthep Thepkanjana.

Mr Pongthep said he did not speak with the former premier since the new government emerged.

Commenting on the current administration led by the Democrat party, the spokesman said it was not formed under the democratic regime.

However, he would like the new government to work and solve economic, political and social problems as well as the ongoing insurgency in the southernmost provinces. He said the government needs to be clear about Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's leadership and the rifts within the Democrat party to strengthen its stability.

Mr Pongthep said he felt disappointed that the premier appointed Kasit Piromya as foreign minister since he joined the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters and closed down Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang airports.

Appointing Mr Kasit would not restore the confidence of foreigners in the country, he concluded.

Ref url:- http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...-this-christmas

Unquote

Unbelievable, no on second thoughts, it is believable and expected, par for the course, when you look at the continued hypocrisy that we have become used to when it comes to mouthing off about ethics ect.ect.

WAFF

How many years now!!! seven at least to my knowledge.

marshbags

P.S.

Guess we,ll have to wait for him filling his pre arranged booking / reservation in the Bangkok Hilton a little longer

Edited December 24, 2008 by marshbags

[jbowman1993]

Nobody with any sense want's Thaksin to come back. Better that he just fade away in his Zimbabwe penthouse, sharing drinks with Mugabe and friends...

[animatic]

But, French President Françoise Mitterand had a mistress for 25 years,

with a grown child, commonly known, but NEVER mentioned in the press,

till she came to his funeral openly.

When it came out in the press the first time, Mitterand answered "Et Alors" and that was the end of it;

The present French president is divorced while he became president an re-married Carla Bruni a singer and foto model who even posed naked.

The French and European press never made an scandal about it

The Danish crown prince even married an divorced women who had a child.

Maybe thats why they call it an developted continent in the broad sense of the word.

Luckily in Continental Europe we judge politicians on there political work and not on there privat life.

So judge the new minister of comerce on her political merrits and not on her previous proffesional life.

That is all very well, but running an institution of ill repute and gaining financial benefit from prostitution would in Europe also be classed as an illegal activity.

It is the laws in Thailand that create a massively grey area about running these types of places which go a long way to allowing them to proliferate in such massive quantity. Moral sets change people's perception, but many Thai's would judge running an establishment as this to be morally wrong.

The point I was making is that different cultures draw different lines on morality.

Often differing lines within the same country and between social classes also.

Some consider this type business anathema, others a necessary economic evil,

others a place to do business deals and please clients to get them to do business.

Others as the best short term way to care for the family back home.

That this last would seem a viable choice has more to do with how the country is run,

than the back to the wall souls making that choice....

It is "The Worlds Oldest Profession" it went out of favor as marriage came into favor.

It has never gone away no matter WHAT religion or philosophically lead government

was in power, anywhere in the world. That's just the way it is. Doesn't make it good.

[animatic]

Author................... Vejjajiva, M. A.

Title ..................... Stabilization policies in developing economies : an eclectic approach / M.A. Vejjajiva.

<snip>

... most funny is the line "an eclectic approach" in the title.

It certainly made me wonder if it was a failed Ph.D. thesis - failed because he couldn't derive a useful conclusion, rather like 'Topics in' in some thesis titles.

At Oxford and Cambridge there aren't university-wide student unions - instead each college with undergrduates has a JCR.

JCR presidents typically don't get a sabbatical year.

Eclectic

1. selecting or choosing from various sources.

2. made up of what is selected from different sources.

3. not following any one system, as of philosophy, medicine, etc.,

but selecting and using what are considered the best elements of all systems.

4. noting or pertaining to works of architecture, decoration, landscaping, etc.,

produced by a certain person or during a certain period, that derive from a wide range of historic styles,

the style in each instance often being chosen for its fancied appropriateness to local tradition,

local geography, the purpose to be served, or the cultural background of the client.

I find it funny anyone could see eclecticism as a bad thing...

To me it means looking at more than just one set of parameters,

and looking for interactivity outside a strict 'classical' reading of a subject.

This is a positive trait in a leader. Think outside of the box.

Not lockstep to some past dogma's.

It is alos part of pragmatism, one of the things

Mark V. will need in a bundance right now.

[Thai at Heart]

But, French President Françoise Mitterand had a mistress for 25 years,

with a grown child, commonly known, but NEVER mentioned in the press,

till she came to his funeral openly.

When it came out in the press the first time, Mitterand answered "Et Alors" and that was the end of it;

The present French president is divorced while he became president an re-married Carla Bruni a singer and foto model who even posed naked.

The French and European press never made an scandal about it

The Danish crown prince even married an divorced women who had a child.

Maybe thats why they call it an developted continent in the broad sense of the word.

Luckily in Continental Europe we judge politicians on there political work and not on there privat life.

So judge the new minister of comerce on her political merrits and not on her previous proffesional life.

That is all very well, but running an institution of ill repute and gaining financial benefit from prostitution would in Europe also be classed as an illegal activity.

It is the laws in Thailand that create a massively grey area about running these types of places which go a long way to allowing them to proliferate in such massive quantity. Moral sets change people's perception, but many Thai's would judge running an establishment as this to be morally wrong.

The point I was making is that different cultures draw different lines on morality.

Often differing lines within the same country and between social classes also.

Some consider this type business anathema, others a necessary economic evil,

others a place to do business deals and please clients to get them to do business.

Others as the best short term way to care for the family back home.

That this last would seem a viable choice has more to do with how the country is run,

than the back to the wall souls making that choice....

It is "The Worlds Oldest Profession" it went out of favor as marriage came into favor.

It has never gone away no matter WHAT religion or philosophically lead government

was in power, anywhere in the world. That's just the way it is. Doesn't make it good.

The point I was answering was from HenryAlleman, which was to state that Mitterand had a mistress for 25 years and no one reported it. Having a mistress isn't illegal. If he had been running a massage parlour with extra curricular, it would have been a different issue. If people want to see owning a parlour such as this as only a legal issue, that is their perogative, I see it as a legal and moral issue.

Lucky Mitterand wasn't South Korean, he could have ended up inside.

Of course some people see it as anathema, and in itself is often a safety net for the hapless in Thailand. If individuals want to do it, that is their choice and not one they take lightly I am sure. However, running it and profiting from others extra curricular is a separate moral issue from the girls offering services as individuals. As for the financial issues of how the girls were paid, lets not concern ourselves with that either, coz the manager will always claim I don't know what they do and of course they only offer massage.

It is the government's job to explain it if anyone asks the question. I would dearly love for the minister in question to explain how she was providing well paid jobs for the hapless.

It will definitely be an interesting answer.

[henryalleman]

However, running it and profiting from others extra curricular is a separate moral issue from the girls offering services as individuals. As for the financial issues of how the girls were paid, lets not concern ourselves with that either, coz the manager will always claim I don't know what they do and of course they only offer massage.

It is the government's job to explain it if anyone asks the question. I would dearly love for the minister in question to explain how she was providing well paid jobs for the hapless.

It will definitely be an interesting answer.

You are 100% correct, I would like to have that answer also. And indeed there is a different moral issue between the girls and the mamasan.

[permanent_disorder]

Army comeback through soft, silent coup

By Pravit Rojanaphruk, The Nation

It would be an understatement to say the Thai military has further entrenched its status over the past few weeks as a state within a state as a result of Army Chief Gen Anupong Paochinda's controversial but crucial role in helping the Democrats form the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration.

In return, those generals got one of their own former commanders, by the name of Gen Prawit Wongsuwan, as Defence Minister. A few days prior to the cabinet appointment last week, a Defence Ministry spokeman made it clear by telling the media they did not want an outsider as Defence minister. So they got what they wanted, and Prawit, according to the current Navy Commander, "has good relations with Anupong". Also, a "strange coincidence" occurred very soon after when Gen Prawit's younger brother, Pol Gen Phatcharawat Wongsuwan, was reinstated as Police chief. Phatcharawat, by the way, has been accused by the National Human Rights Commission of using excessive force to quell the People Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters in front of parliament on October 7. This led to two deaths and hundreds being injured, when he was in charge.

But the Army is trying to stage a comeback through a soft, hidden and silent coup, in an even bigger way and play a dual role again. It was reported last week that the Army plans "to visit" red-shirt groups in the Northeast "as part of a mission to ease social disunity". The report even quoted Anupong as saying "Basically I love Isaan people". Now, it's well-known red-shirt pro-Thaksin Shinawatra villagers and voters have been upset with the military since they staged a coup d'etat in September 2006 which ousted Thaksin. What took place after the coup was a blitz of pro-military and facile national unity propaganda launched by a military junta, the Council for National Security.It failed as voters in the areas persistently voted for whoever they saw as representing Thaksin and so the People Power Party won the election last December.

Now the Army is back at it again, and all this just before snap by-elections on January 11 in many areas. Thai Rath newspapers went into more detail last Friday when stating that 2,000 troops "would be dispatched" to all areas in the North and Northeast where new polls will be held. When will the Army learn that what these people need is not exactly "love" as Gen Anupong have stated, but "respect" - respect for their political right and freedom to make political choices - no matter what others think. By engineering and making the Abhisit administration a reality through coercing a defection of former pro-Thaksin aide Newin Chidchob, red-shirt voters felt doubly cheated and robbed of their government - no matter how dubious then PM Somchai Wongsawat and his predecessor Samak Sundaravej were.

So when will the Army learn it's none of their business to help form a government or send soldiers to tell rural and poor villagers what kind of political outlook they should have (not to mention whom they should vote for)? Did it not occur to these generals that they too must be top among the list of those who urgently need proper re-education about politics, and the proper role of the military in a democracy? Perhaps not - judging from their behaviour which projects Anupong as being more than just Army chief but also a kingmaker, chief propagandist and more. Some said we should be thankful that the military didn't stage yet another coup after the PAD illegal seized the two Bangkok airports.

Nevertheless, Gen Anupong's role in opening his house to talk with key politicians on December 6 to discuss what sort of new coalition should look like is a soft, hidden and silent coup which in a way is worse than the visible and obvious traditional coup with tanks rolling down the streets of Bangkok. This is because soft, hidden and silent coup blur the line between what is democratically acceptable and not, between what is illegitimate and not. It may be too simplistic to say that PM Abhisit is simply a military puppet and lacking in his own agency. (Please note that the PAD is also very influential in the new administration with the appointment of one of the PAD fanatics, Kasit Piromya, who defended the PAD's takeover of the airports as "fun" as the new Foreign Minister). Prawit's appointment and the military's dual role in political meddling is nonetheless a reminder that the military is gaining more clout and influence vis-a-vis elected politicians and the people. It shows they're not willing to give up their privileged and hugely rewarding status as a state within a state. This alone doesn't bode well for the future of Thai democracy.

The Nation Published on December 24, 2008

[Thai at Heart]

Oh well, the cat is well and truly out of the bag now.

[Plus]

Prawit's appointment and the military's dual role in political meddling is nonetheless a reminder that the military is gaining more clout and influence vis-a-vis elected politicians and the people.

That maybe so, but Prawit has failed to show any motives, especially ulterior motives. They've got their budgets consitutionally guaranteed, they had very good relationships with Samak and the first order of Somchai cabinet was to sign off 8bil budget for the boys.

I fail to see any special interests beyond restoring at least semblance of normalcy - there's an undeniable sense of relief ever since new coalition was formed, with army's help. It was a good move for everybody involved, even for Phue Thai itself.

PPP had failed to present itself as a meaningful political force, only as Thaksin's personal vehicle, their confrontational attitude had become unaccaptable, they just attracted troubles at every step and brought on airport closures and "govt in exile" situation and no one saw any chance of a peaceful resolution to the conflict.

I don't see the military doing anything beyond facilitating a solution acceptable to all. They haven't got anything for themselves out of it, anything they couldn't get from Samak or Somchai or whoever would have stepped in their shoes. The word "coup" implies seizing power, which they haven't done.

All this "state within the state" rhetoric is just nonsense. They have always been a state withing the state, nothing has changed. Do you think they were any more accountable with Chaisit Shinawatra in charge? They always had their turf protected, no matter who the civilian PM was. They are quite above daily politics, they have no horses in those races.

[VegasVic]

Army comeback through soft, silent coup

By Pravit Rojanaphruk, The Nation

It would be an understatement to say the Thai military has further entrenched its status over the past few weeks as a state within a state as a result of Army Chief Gen Anupong Paochinda's controversial but crucial role in helping the Democrats form the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration.

In return, those generals got one of their own former commanders, by the name of Gen Prawit Wongsuwan, as Defence Minister. A few days prior to the cabinet appointment last week, a Defence Ministry spokeman made it clear by telling the media they did not want an outsider as Defence minister. So they got what they wanted, and Prawit, according to the current Navy Commander, "has good relations with Anupong". Also, a "strange coincidence" occurred very soon after when Gen Prawit's younger brother, Pol Gen Phatcharawat Wongsuwan, was reinstated as Police chief. Phatcharawat, by the way, has been accused by the National Human Rights Commission of using excessive force to quell the People Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters in front of parliament on October 7. This led to two deaths and hundreds being injured, when he was in charge.

But the Army is trying to stage a comeback through a soft, hidden and silent coup, in an even bigger way and play a dual role again. It was reported last week that the Army plans "to visit" red-shirt groups in the Northeast "as part of a mission to ease social disunity". The report even quoted Anupong as saying "Basically I love Isaan people". Now, it's well-known red-shirt pro-Thaksin Shinawatra villagers and voters have been upset with the military since they staged a coup d'etat in September 2006 which ousted Thaksin. What took place after the coup was a blitz of pro-military and facile national unity propaganda launched by a military junta, the Council for National Security.It failed as voters in the areas persistently voted for whoever they saw as representing Thaksin and so the People Power Party won the election last December.

Now the Army is back at it again, and all this just before snap by-elections on January 11 in many areas. Thai Rath newspapers went into more detail last Friday when stating that 2,000 troops "would be dispatched" to all areas in the North and Northeast where new polls will be held. When will the Army learn that what these people need is not exactly "love" as Gen Anupong have stated, but "respect" - respect for their political right and freedom to make political choices - no matter what others think. By engineering and making the Abhisit administration a reality through coercing a defection of former pro-Thaksin aide Newin Chidchob, red-shirt voters felt doubly cheated and robbed of their government - no matter how dubious then PM Somchai Wongsawat and his predecessor Samak Sundaravej were.

So when will the Army learn it's none of their business to help form a government or send soldiers to tell rural and poor villagers what kind of political outlook they should have (not to mention whom they should vote for)? Did it not occur to these generals that they too must be top among the list of those who urgently need proper re-education about politics, and the proper role of the military in a democracy? Perhaps not - judging from their behaviour which projects Anupong as being more than just Army chief but also a kingmaker, chief propagandist and more. Some said we should be thankful that the military didn't stage yet another coup after the PAD illegal seized the two Bangkok airports.

Nevertheless, Gen Anupong's role in opening his house to talk with key politicians on December 6 to discuss what sort of new coalition should look like is a soft, hidden and silent coup which in a way is worse than the visible and obvious traditional coup with tanks rolling down the streets of Bangkok. This is because soft, hidden and silent coup blur the line between what is democratically acceptable and not, between what is illegitimate and not. It may be too simplistic to say that PM Abhisit is simply a military puppet and lacking in his own agency. (Please note that the PAD is also very influential in the new administration with the appointment of one of the PAD fanatics, Kasit Piromya, who defended the PAD's takeover of the airports as "fun" as the new Foreign Minister). Prawit's appointment and the military's dual role in political meddling is nonetheless a reminder that the military is gaining more clout and influence vis-a-vis elected politicians and the people. It shows they're not willing to give up their privileged and hugely rewarding status as a state within a state. This alone doesn't bode well for the future of Thai democracy.

The Nation Published on December 24, 2008

"This alone doesn't bode well well for the future of Thai democracy" That may be the understatement of the year On a far more critical note this doesn't bode well for the future of the Thai economy. As I have said in past posts this whole political debacle has come at the most inopportune time for Thailand. While the world is in the most severe recession since the great depression, Thailand has slid back into third world staus at lest in a political sense in the rest of the worlds eyes. When the world economic engine gets going again late in 2009 or 2010, I fear that the stigma from this whole PAD foolishness and political instability will weigh heavily on foriegn investors minds when deciding where to place their investment dollars, euros, pounds ect. I guess time will tell, but this next go around of investment ,Thailand may find themselves as spectators instead of the darlings of the investment community

[permanent_disorder]

"This alone doesn't bode well well for the future of Thai democracy" That may be the understatement of the year On a far more critical note this doesn't bode well for the future of the Thai economy. As I have said in past posts this whole political debacle has come at the most inopportune time for Thailand. While the world is in the most severe recession since the great depression, Thailand has slid back into third world staus at lest in a political sense in the rest of the worlds eyes. When the world economic engine gets going again late in 2009 or 2010, I fear that the stigma from this whole PAD foolishness and political instability will weigh heavily on foriegn investors minds when deciding where to place their investment dollars, euros, pounds ect. I guess time will tell, but this next go around of investment ,Thailand may find themselves as spectators instead of the darlings of the investment community

the whole movement is also an antiglobalisation movement. thaksin got also blamed for his 'capitalistic' economy concepts. thaksin is much more than just a corrupt politician. for the PAD he is the symbol of a economic system they hate. that system is capitalism, a free and liberal market, the age of globalisation. they have some "new way" in mind and that new way doesn't count so much on foreign investment and dollars, euros, pounds etc. that system they see as proven wrong.

the whole process not only scare foreign investment away, they also don't care about it. that is far more critical. in their demands list PAD request to stop privatisation and also to restore privatized state enterprises as state property. that foreign investors lost confidence doesn't matter in the concept of 'new politics'.

Pipob Thongchai expressed his agreement with another PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul to resort back to what he referred to as Eastern style economic system. Pipob said he agreed with Sondhi’s proposal for Thailand to try to restore its economic balance and push for environmentally sustainable economic development.

Pipob asserted that the balance between the environment and national revenue has been distorted by the Thaksin regime. He cited the Thaksin’s regime economic liberalization efforts as some of the greatest threats to the Thai economy. TOC

PAD founder and media baron Sondhi Limthongkul is leading the backlash. In contrast to Thaksin, who often spoke of elevating Thailand to the ranks of the developed world, Sondhi advocates a "reasonable society" no longer burdened by debt and obsessed with "how many cars or washing machines" people own. He favors limits on foreign investment, opposes privatization of utilities and warns, "Don't impose a free trade, consumer-oriented society on Thailand." http://www.newsweek.com/id/157506

[animatic]

The issue regards a Mamasam in government is not about "legality" , but about who has been visiting ?

Who has the dirt on who ?

I think most of the big wigs wives ASSUME they are doing this from time to time,

rather than, or in addition to keeping a mia noi. So pictures to the wife will do

no more than cause a few weeks of frigid dinner time air, before the thaw.

mostly for letting it get public, not for what he is show doing...

Mama, will get some nice jewels, and stick with the guy making the big deals and prestige.

Behind closed doors and all face remains the same.

Edited December 26, 2008 by animatic

[sriracha john]

Police say ten locations risk having violence during New Year

The Metropolitan Police Bureau announced that there are ten dangerous locations susceptible to unrest during the New Year period.

Police are cooperating with the military and city law enforcement under the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration in providing security at major countdown venues.

Metropolitan Police Commander Police Lt. Gen. Suchart Muenkaeo informed that the Police Special Branch has sent a confidential letter to his bureau to warn against ten locations where violence is likely to occur, including the Bangkok Countdown 2009 in front of Central World.

However, the commander firmly assured people that police would be able to maintain orderliness and safeguard them during the coming New Year celebrations.

Metropolitan Police Deputy Commander Police Maj. Gen. Wibun Bangthamai said a force comprising more than 1,000 officers from the Metropolitan Police Bureau, the military, and the BMA City Law Enforcement would be deployed at the Bangkok Countdown 2009.

Checkpoints would be set up at all entrances and exits to detect for explosive objects and five bomb-defusing teams would be stationed at the event.

Traffic will be closed from Ratchaprasong to Pratunam Junctions from 18.00 hrs of December 31st, 2008, to 01.00 hrs. of January 1st, 2009.

People who wish to join the Bangkok Countdown 2009 are suggested to use public transportation for their convenience.

- ThaiNews / 2008-12-27