Abhisit Vejjajiva Elected New Prime Minister Of Thailand

[permanent_disorder]

Charlerm is an idiot. Anyone who wants him as a spokesman for their ideals and visions is also an idiot. Period.

And where is Mr. Happy Toilet. I wonder if he still has a job? - SR could we have a photo of Mr. Happy Toilet, to remember happier times by?

2 for 1...

Mr Happy Urinal. I advise you revise your usual distance about a step back.

Well that just made my day!

i think that is just dumb and imbecile.

[mrtoad]

i think that is just dumb and imbecile.

Clarify please, the joke or the job? (emotion added just for you).

[permanent_disorder]

i think that is just dumb and imbecile.

Clarify please, the joke or the job? (emotion added just for you).

i mean that what you call a 'joke'.

in detail: write "mr. happy toilet" in font size seven, photoshop a face inside an urinal, comment this 'that made my day' and add an idiotic smiley, all that is dumb and imbecile in my opinion.

and i would not call it a 'joke'.

[mrtoad]

in detail: write "mr. happy toilet" in font size seven, photoshop a face inside an urinal, comment this 'that made my day' and add an idiotic smiley, all that is dumb and imbecile in my opinion.

and i would not call it a 'joke'.

Thanks, for confirming.

[Moonrakers]

Brothers! Brothers! We should be struggling together! ... We mustn't fight each other! Surely we should be united against the common enemy!

Edited January 5, 2009 by globalj

[SoMeOnEnUlL]

So, you are a Thai?

Yes I am. So you now know I don't avoid a question if I see it.

Now the puzzle is solved. Thank you!

[Wiresok]

Abhisit hasn't time to pursue one person one vote matters,......he is so busy making sure the PAD are prosecuted for their "cost to the nation".

[hammered]

Charlerm is an idiot. Anyone who wants him as a spokesman for their ideals and visions is also an idiot. Period.

And where is Mr. Happy Toilet. I wonder if he still has a job? - SR could we have a photo of Mr. Happy Toilet, to remember happier times by?

2 for 1...

Mr Happy Urinal. I advise you revise your usual distance about a step back.

Well that just made my day!

i think that is just dumb and imbecile.

True it is dumb but to ridicule one of the most vile and also publically reviled elitist mafiosa families in Thailand does have merit. After all more serious things like the law are below such people.

[Plus]

Because the first and foremost characteristic of fascism is totalitarism, and it is completely absent in PAD movement or its leadership but all too obvious among pro-Thaksin reds.

... Taken point by point, TRT was growing into a nice fascist party and has developed a "healthy" fascist following in areas it had under its control.

I'm sorry but this really won't do.Totalitarianism is a hallmark of many movements from right to left, not least communist regimes.I have always tried to be careful in stressing the PAD movement contained elements of fascism and was not per se a fascist movement.

You can find elements of fascism in my girlfriends closet, doesn't make her fascist, does it?

(that's a thought, though)

On the other hand, there isn't a branf of fascism that is not totalitarian in nature. Rules out PAD.

I don't know what to say about your view that TRT was growing into a nice fascist party.

Let's turn to ever helpful wikipedia and look at "Core Tenets" of fascism, all of them, one by one:

- Nationalism

Undeniable, ever since Thaksin held that huge Thai flag and declared freedom from IMF all his rhetoric and speeches were based on building Thailand into a new nation, even his supporters here still talk about how he put Thailand on the map.

- Expansionism

Not in a sense of expanding Thai empire, but Thaksin definitely aimed for regional domination and leadership. Internally his ideological stance towards muslim South was also very pro-Thai and anti any other identity, though he is definitely not unique in this.

- National socialism and national syndicalism

He aimed to bridge class divides through a sense of newly found national unity, didn't he? Farmers and businessmen work together to move the country forward, wasn't it? No class struggle but class collaboration.

- Economic nationalism

Not much here, I agree, Thaksin was all for global trade on the face of it, although there are plenty of arguments that he used it only as a means to his goals, not for the sake of the principle. What was his famous quote - "I do business with farangs but I don't serve them"? Critics accused him that his glorified free trade deals were mostly to serve his companies, not even the country, and certainly not the principle itself.

- Third Position economics

Basically capitalism with strong government involvement. Very Thaksin.

- Corporatism

I suppose that's where you accuse PAD of being fascist. Wiki states that Germans rejected it, btw.

- Class collaboration

Mentioned already - every class under TRT rule had it's own role to play and they were supposed to complement each other, not fight.

- Economic planning

Maybe it was a novelty back then.

- Mixed economy

As wiki says: "Fascist economies are typically inbetween laissez-faire capitalist and statist socialist economic systems" - Thaksin hasn't started it in Thailand, but he loved to intervene in the markets where he saw fit. He would go and make deals with other countries and get private companies to carry them. Big business was so ingrained at all levels of policy making that is was difficult to say where government ended and private interests began. PPP is sitll addicted to the idea of price controls, ordering businesses how much they should charge for their goods, all for the sake of the nation.

You could say he wanted to privatise state entreprises, very un-fascist, yet what he actually did was to transfer them into private hands he could control himself more effectively than via state bureaucracy. His privatisation was not about taking control of vital industries, not giving them more freedom.

- Authoritarianism and Totalitarianism

TRT effectively created a single party state with opposition role relegated to providing comic relief. TRT propaganda painted the opposition as enemy of the people, no respect whatsoever.

I don't want to go on about his treatment of the media or intellectuals and academics that opposed him.

- Dictatorship

Ok, he didn't invent a title for himself yet, like duce of furher, but who is going to deny he didn't have all hallmarks of an inspiring dictator? Ok, anyone by Koo.

- Statism

TRT clearly aimed to get their hands on every aspect of society, put their logo on everything of value. Their supporters still can't get used to the idea that non-TRT government can have any legitimacy, while any dunce with Thaksin's approval can have any position in the society and be perfectly qualified just by the virtue of TRT/PPP brand.

- Indoctrination

Results or TRT propaganda are clearly seen in TRT dominated areas.

- Societal transformation

Think new, act new, create new Thailand, create new generation of farmers - it was all there.

- Interventionist social policies

TRT was all about those, helping people, teaching them how to live. Not to mention Social Order campaign.

- Social welfare

TRT is praised by many for trying to turn Thailand into a welfare state, not exclusively a fascist idea, maybe it was a novelty back then.

- Positions on abortion, eugenics and euthanasia

- Positions on culture, gender roles and relations, and sexual orientation

I don't think these two have any real relevance in the early 21st century Thailand. It has a lot of its own traditions here.

- Militance and Militarism

It was a big deal a hundred years ago, but by now I think a simple police state would do to qualify as being fascist. The police ruled supreme under TRT and Thaksin praised them on every possible occasion.

- Anti-intellectualism

Thaksin had openly derided academics and intellctuals and any kind of think tanks that disagreed with him, like TDRI.

- Positions on racism

Asians were clearly superior and the new masters of the world in Thaksin's vision of Asian century.

- Positions on religion

Too diverse and inconsistent to translate to Thai reality, Thaksin was obsessed with it and had official backing from huge sects like Dhammachaya and never missed a chance to see a big name monk, if it matters.

>>>

Clearly some of these tenets matter more than others. Some were incorporated in mainstream western society, some are clearly unacceptable.

What was really scary is how Thaksin carried the drug war with such impunity - the sheer disregard for thousands of murdered people for the sake of the nation really scares me. On the strength of that alone I'd say "f*cking fascist", prunning the nation of impure gene pool.

And yes, many aspects of fascism have a long history here and a lot of followers just about everywhere, but it doesn't excuse Thaksin himself in may way.

So there, my long post on what made TRT a growing fascist party (it wasn't like that prior to 2000 election win), and don't forget the fact that they actually went out and DID all those things, not just talked about some things on stage that can possibly be branded fascist.

[Journalist]

You can find elements of fascism in my girlfriends closet, doesn't make her fascist, does it?

Leather boots?....or something more extreme, a panzerwrap, or a waffenrock?!

Cool !! Photos please.

[hammered]

Pridiyathorns little piece where he mentioned Sarit is important too. The strong Sarit has long been a model for Thai leaders and even a role model in the eyes of many people. Few would deny that Thaksin was at least to some degree in style influenced by Sarit who would have been in power around Thaksin's formative years. That aside we can see the strong man traits so assocuiated in Sarit in other PMs such as Samak and Chavalit. Sarit was also maybe the first of the clever PMs who used various symbols, "myths" and mantras to manipulate and perpetuate poltical power. He definitely had a few traits of facism in him but in terms of Thai authoritarian leaders how they operate and how the whole idea of a strong (but flawed) leader is a good leader came to be preeminent in Thailand may be better understood in terms of Saritism as opposed to total facism imho.

Sarit was a vicious dictator but he remained very popular especially in the North East and he retained total politcal power until his death. That he retained popularity and power even though repressing democracy and opposition is always going to mark him out as leader to be studied as would his economic stimulus packages and return to social order campaigns.

[Guest Reimar]

Please keep the Royal House out of any post and discussion.

I deleted some post already.

Stay on topic please.

[Bangyai]

Well, after a lot of head scratching and muttereing ( " What shall we do now ...??? )

the ever original Democrats have decided on this :

Economic stimulus package extended for six months

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b....php?id=1357459

I wonder if they had to secretly confer with Thaksins proxy, Samak, to ask for guidance on the fine tuning of his original package ?

[Koo82]

Grandmother Niem (who gave Abhisit the ring) is very sick and is in the hospital. She needs the assistance to breathe. I don't expect her to recover this time.

Abhisit said he'll look for a chance to visit her.

[Plus]

What's wrong with continuing previous programs? Money needs to be spent, starting all over again would take several months for the funds to reach the public. Besides it's only one point in the plan. Not to mention that this particular policy was first proposed by Democrat shadow cabinet and then adopted by PPP.

PPP also has left 40 billion left unused in shoring up agricultural prices, for example. Dems will try to put this money to good use asap.

[Plus]

Yeah, Sarit and Thaksin.

Let me rephrase that post - Thaksin was the first one to create a popular party that developed fascist tendencies and ideology. Sarit couldn't care less about parties or politics. One could read Pridiyathorn's piece for more details about Sarit that can't be discussed here.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30092412

[younghusband]

Let me rephrase that post - Thaksin was the first one to create a popular party that developed fascist tendencies and ideology.

This is intellectually slovenly nonsense based apparently on the poster's garbled understanding of a Wiki article.I was too embarrassed on his behalf to comment at the time.Word of advice:avoid speculating on relatively complex historical comparisons which are clearly difficult for you to grasp and stick to your comical Mooonie paranioa theories.At least that's good for a laugh.The slightly sinister aspect is that he perhaps seeking to divert attention from the genuine quasi-fascist aspects of the PAD leadership.But the more likely explanation he doesn't have the faintest idea.

[Journalist]

Why are all these defamatory statements about one side or another being fascist or other such speculative libels permitted? There's no way my subbies would let phrases like this through.

And especially now we know that websites are being vetted as well.

[Plus]

This is intellectually slovenly nonsense based apparently on the poster's garbled understanding of a Wiki article.I

As if Thaksin didn't create a party that demanded full and complete submission in the name of national unity and prosperity. As if he didn't brag himself that he created an "institution" that would last forever and was bigger than him personally.

[Koo82]

I still remember that Democrat Party said all things that Khun Thaksin did were not good.

The 30 Baht health care curing all was said by Democrat "kill all".

The village loan was said "made poor people lazy; they use money to buy mobile phones and things which are not for daily needs".

The SML was also bad idea.

Why don't they (Democrat) make any better programs since the so-called PM graduated in UK?

At least they should send thank you letter to Khun Thaksin.

[Bangyai]

This is intellectually slovenly nonsense based apparently on the poster's garbled understanding of a Wiki article.I

As if Thaksin didn't create a party that demanded full and complete submission in the name of national unity and prosperity. As if he didn't brag himself that he created an "institution" that would last forever and was bigger than him personally.

I am getting distinct vibes wafting through cyber space that Plus is not a fan of Thaksin The term ' red rag to a bull ' springs to mind.

Interestingly, the above link no longer works although it did when I first posted it. Having just rechecked the online breaking news of the Bangkok Post it appears the article has been withdrawn....... I wonder why ?? ooooooooooooo... cue twilight zone spooky music. ........or maybe they changed their minds ?

Edited January 7, 2009 by Bangyai

[Journalist]

^Yes, if repeating the exact same pedantic comment 7811 times had no effect on how Thailand's political situation would unravel or couldn't influence even one person to think differently, then our Plus would win a medal !

Perhaps a Blue Max,........... then he could pin it to his girlfriend's ledermantel.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Journalist

[Bangyai]

A couple more interesting BP breaking news stories ( hope they don't disappear ) :

Police to charge egg throwers :

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=135753

This criminal code 295 is obviously fresh from the oven otherwise the BIB would have had a field day apprehending the water bottle throwing PADies

Then we have the Army ' making demands ' :

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=135750

This is more like it !!! Yes, lets not have people with differing political views obstructing anything from which the country might gain benefit.

Hmmmm.......might have said this a bit earlier when swampy was occupied by the PAD.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Bangyai

[Koo82]

The 2nd link Bangyai gave is interesting!

"Army chief Anupong Paojinda, referring to the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) protesters, called on people with different political views to stop obstructing the country from hosting the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) summit because the event is considered a national agenda."

When the PAD blocked airports, Anupong said PPP should have dissolved the House. He did not do anything to clear PAD out.

Now when it is still about 40 days before the reds may protest, and we don't know if it will happen or not, Anupong showed his opinion. Why doesn't he said "DP should dissolve the House"?

If the event is "national agenda", why did he let the PAD block airports? This was the reason the Summit has to be postponed.

[baht&sold]

Thailand politcal news quotes as a new year begins (all "quotes" taken from headlines and articles since Jan 1, 2009 to date - comments are my own thoughts and not in "quotes")

-To re-cap, the new year started hopefully enough with the first political headline of note stating "A new year, a new chance to reconcile" - but then started to go pear-shaped from there (or at least this is what some appear to actually 'hope' for)...

-PM Abhisit (in an understatement?) asked: "If the Samak Sundaravej government could last almost a year, why can't a Democrat-led administration survive?"

-Mr Suthep offered the following olive-branch on continuing populist policies: "Why do we have to dismantle their house? If we do that, it shows we have no intentions of reconciling from the very beginning". Suthep argued that the government would continue with the populist policies, but use them constructively. (let's hope so)

-The new Govt also vowed to continue holding out an olive branch to rivals, with Suthep saying he has been "extending a hand of friendship to Pheu Thai Party faction leaders like Yongyuth Tiyapairat, Sudarat Keyuraphan and Chaturon Chaisang" (a prickly bunch to attract with mere olive branches however)...

-Any attempts at reconciliation whether real or contrived were quickly shot down by Mr Thaksin himself with a predictable broadside: "Thaksin tells UDD to keep on fighting"

-UDD co-leader, ex-PPP MP and all round Thaksin 'goodfellow' Jatuporn desreves a red-star for this related comment: "Mr Jatuporn denied the UDD was fighting for Thaksin"

-Apparently Mr Jatuporn also doubles as a security analyst, as it would appear from this comment: "Mr Jatuporn dismissed the report about a plot to assassinate Mr Abhisit, saying it was nothing but a ploy to raise sympathy and support"

-Predictably, this appeal by PM Abhisit seems to have fallen on deaf ears as well: "He said he would like to request Mr Thaksin to tell his close aides to stop creating chaos in the country"...

-The Bkk Gov polls seem to favour the Dems which will further infuriate some but with the same parties in local/Ntnl seats, things may actually stand to get done in Bkk for once (one hopes - at the least it would be a departure from grassing up one's opponents...)

-The following headline was a welcome read after much chaos and doubt: "ASEAN Sec-Gen: International community more confident of new Thai government" (even if it came from a self-serving vested-interest dysfunctional group of leaders)...

-The first Red gauntlet of the 'happy' new year was thrown down (or up?) in the comfortable/safe surroundings of Chiang Mai, resulting in this demand: "The red-shirts shouted: Take back your Democrat Party and return us Thaksin!"

-PM Abhisit responded in kind, also asking Mr Thaksin to return (but probably for different reasons...) "I want him to think about the country. It is about time that Thailand moved forward" (indeed)

-Mr Thaksin whom is on record for hiring a PR man with long associations and partnerships with some well-known western media groups is apparently set to sue within seven days - unless the Dems can come up with evidence that "Thaksin had hired firms to discredit Thailand"... Suffice to say, when a convicted Ex-PM on the run is able to hire PR people whom have long partnerships with respected western & UK media outlets, some already suspect news articles becomes even more suspect...

-A Bangkok Post Editor sums up the 'simple tune' played over and over by the Intnl press thusly: "I can see why the urban-rural theory sticks with the international media. After all, it's an expedient one. Journalistically speaking, the yawning divide is a juicy topic, complete with the intellectual aspect of an ideological clash and the romantic element of a class struggle"

-DSI Chief (whom deep-sixed charges against Mr Thaksin) balked at accusations of tapping phones over at the new Justice Ministry: "Since I have taken this position for about one year, I can ensure you that we do not use the equipment to tap anyone"...

-Back on the up-country buy-election trail, the Reds had a great time getting egg on Mr Chuan's face (and coat and bystanders) "Chuan was on a campaign vehicle with the candidate when about 100 red-shirted people followed him in other vehicles and shouted abusive words at him and threw bottles and eggs at him"

-Not to be outdone, UDD try to show force in numbers at Govt house (unfortunately only 30 showed up initially) however, their motivation was pure: "UDD reiterated that no one assembled the demonstrators but they decided to stop working to protest against the government by themselves"

-The main Editor for the Bangkok Post came out yesterday and stated the obvious: "Any attempt by the UDD to disrupt the (Asean) summit or bring about a boycott under such a ridiculous pretext, would only do the country a great disservice"

-The Bkk Post Editor also correctly stated Thaksin-loyal former MP's shouldn't be 'lobbying' Asean leaders to 'boycott' the economic meet and further: "It is thus disturbing that the pro-Thaksin pressure group, the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), is planning a protest against the summit"

-Finally, the new Govt appears to have out-strategised the Reds once again by moving the Asean Summit to Hua Hin. This is a perfect venue for the meet, it should be comparatively easy to provide security and will show Thailand at it's best and moving on. This will of course also infuriate 'some' but one suspects most reasonable people would like to see this Summit go off and without a hitch and further, for Thailand to move forward.

This would provide a much needed shot in the arm for Thailand and 'perhaps' may even get portrayed as such in the Intnl press....

(the brick-throwing and personalisations may now commence - or rather re-commence - meanwhile, Thailand is moving on, thankfully)

Edited January 7, 2009 by baht&sold

[Journalist]

^This isn't a precis, its just your usual blinkered, biased slant on events, coupled with getting over-excited selectively about certain inconsequential headlines.

"PM Abhisit (in an understatement?) asked: "If the Samak Sundaravej government could last almost a year, why can't a Democrat-led administration survive?"

Can't you work out for yourself why the Samak government managed a year while the fragile tango dancing required to manage this coalition will find it harder.

The new Govt also vowed to continue holding out an olive branch to rivals, with Suthep saying he has been "extending a hand of friendship to Pheu Thai Party faction leaders like Yongyuth Tiyapairat, Sudarat Keyuraphan and Chaturon Chaisang" (a prickly bunch to attract with mere olive branches however)...

Pay them, or give them a cash generative Ministry - eg Ministry of Transport - like Newin's boys got, and they may come over.

[baht&sold]

(ignoring desperate tar-pit bound vested nay-sayer muppets... with pitiful cheer for those with ever-diminutive efforts to stop the world evolving)

Meanwhile, like many others, here's wishing Thailand a Happy (and hopeful) politically stable New Year 2009! (may ALL Thailand finally go fwd)

Artist Credit/Source: Rodewalt (Calgary, Canada)

Sure many are pleased to see the backside of 2008, particularly the divisive political agendas and this little cartoon seemed to capture that and more.

There's little doubt 2009 will be the most challenging in many years but here's hoping people will somehow pull together to at least try and solve (and not seek to cynically profit from) political, religious and economic strife in Thailand and beyond.

Personally, despite all the evidence for more potential doom and gloom (and some whom will seek to exploit this for their own narrow agendas), I believe more than ever Thailand and the World may finally begin to be ready to at least start to turn a painful page towards a more hopeful future.

-Meanwhile, here's also looking towards 2010, the countdown has already begun- have a look:

http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/newyear.html

Edited January 7, 2009 by baht&sold

[Wiresok]

Here Here to a fresh start for 2009.

How about holding an election, how fresh would that be.

Take Abisits stench away.

[jbowman1993]

Here Here to a fresh start for 2009.

How about holding an election, how fresh would that be.

Take Abisits stench away.

Lol, Only stench here at the moment is your severely disused intellect, and I can get rid of that quite easily.

Ignored.

[Journalist]

You should be a political speechwriter B&S, with your romantic belief in New Years as being a new beginning and taking in waifs for Xmas. !

And more importantly your ability to see your preferred political side as gamely working in Corinthian spirit from the purest of motives, while the other team are ham-fisted, gaffe ridden pantomime ogres making pratfalls.

Nice speech. Its the rhetoric of Plus-plus-a-sense-of-humour